Simple test for Focus Problems

Philbert said:

Hello All,

This is a really great forum.

In order to determine if your S2 has a real focus problem (versus
sharpness, shakiness, mirror slap movement ...) and what the extent
of the focus problem is, shoot manually and auto focused test shots
as described below:

Refer to the test images at the following URL:

http://www.wendiphoenixphotography.com/Focus/

Make sure that your camera is mounted on a sturdy tripod.
Make sure CSM item #7 is disabled.
Make sure Auto Focus is off for Manual Focus shot.
Make sure Auto Focus is set to Single for Auto Focus shot.
Shoot image in manual or aperture priority mode.
Set Aperature to lowest (most open) allowed value for your lens.
If using zoom, use middle of zoom range.
Focus on the center card (ace).
If manually focusing, take your time and do it carefully. Adjust
viewfinder diopter correction as needed.
If Auto Focusing, make sure to include both spade symbol and white
space in sensor box.
Do not use hard sharpness settings or Photoshop USM to improve image.
Use even illumination on all cards.

Of course, this test may be performed with other than playing
cards. Just make sure that you have a wide enough space to see
both ends extend beyond your depth of field.

If your camera / lens combination is working correctly you should
see both ends of the card sequence out of focus and your sharpest
point of focus should be the ace. I'll go out on a limb here and
say that your depth of field should extend one third in front of
and two thirds behind your point of sharpest focus.

If you find that your sharpest point of focus is not the Ace (like
mine) and you find out why, please let me know.

My images were shot with 24mm-85mm f/2.8-4D AF Zoom-Nikkor lens,
ISO 200. AF in file name is Auto Focus and MF is Manual Focus.

Philbert

Click to expand...

Philbert said:

Hello All,

This is a really great forum.

In order to determine if your S2 has a real focus problem (versus
sharpness, shakiness, mirror slap movement ...) and what the extent
of the focus problem is, shoot manually and auto focused test shots
as described below:

Refer to the test images at the following URL:

http://www.wendiphoenixphotography.com/Focus/

Make sure that your camera is mounted on a sturdy tripod.
Make sure CSM item #7 is disabled.
Make sure Auto Focus is off for Manual Focus shot.
Make sure Auto Focus is set to Single for Auto Focus shot.
Shoot image in manual or aperture priority mode.
Set Aperature to lowest (most open) allowed value for your lens.
If using zoom, use middle of zoom range.
Focus on the center card (ace).
If manually focusing, take your time and do it carefully. Adjust
viewfinder diopter correction as needed.
If Auto Focusing, make sure to include both spade symbol and white
space in sensor box.
Do not use hard sharpness settings or Photoshop USM to improve image.
Use even illumination on all cards.

Of course, this test may be performed with other than playing
cards. Just make sure that you have a wide enough space to see
both ends extend beyond your depth of field.

If your camera / lens combination is working correctly you should
see both ends of the card sequence out of focus and your sharpest
point of focus should be the ace. I'll go out on a limb here and
say that your depth of field should extend one third in front of
and two thirds behind your point of sharpest focus.

If you find that your sharpest point of focus is not the Ace (like
mine) and you find out why, please let me know.

My images were shot with 24mm-85mm f/2.8-4D AF Zoom-Nikkor lens,
ISO 200. AF in file name is Auto Focus and MF is Manual Focus.

Philbert

Click to expand...

Kevin Roczey said:

Kevin R.

Philbert said:

Hello All,

This is a really great forum.

In order to determine if your S2 has a real focus problem (versus
sharpness, shakiness, mirror slap movement ...) and what the extent
of the focus problem is, shoot manually and auto focused test shots
as described below:

Refer to the test images at the following URL:

http://www.wendiphoenixphotography.com/Focus/

Make sure that your camera is mounted on a sturdy tripod.
Make sure CSM item #7 is disabled.
Make sure Auto Focus is off for Manual Focus shot.
Make sure Auto Focus is set to Single for Auto Focus shot.
Shoot image in manual or aperture priority mode.
Set Aperature to lowest (most open) allowed value for your lens.
If using zoom, use middle of zoom range.
Focus on the center card (ace).
If manually focusing, take your time and do it carefully. Adjust
viewfinder diopter correction as needed.
If Auto Focusing, make sure to include both spade symbol and white
space in sensor box.
Do not use hard sharpness settings or Photoshop USM to improve image.
Use even illumination on all cards.

Of course, this test may be performed with other than playing
cards. Just make sure that you have a wide enough space to see
both ends extend beyond your depth of field.

If your camera / lens combination is working correctly you should
see both ends of the card sequence out of focus and your sharpest
point of focus should be the ace. I'll go out on a limb here and
say that your depth of field should extend one third in front of
and two thirds behind your point of sharpest focus.

If you find that your sharpest point of focus is not the Ace (like
mine) and you find out why, please let me know.

My images were shot with 24mm-85mm f/2.8-4D AF Zoom-Nikkor lens,
ISO 200. AF in file name is Auto Focus and MF is Manual Focus.

Philbert

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Peter Kent said:

I have been following this forum for about three months and
purchased my S2 about four weeks ago. I was immediately suspicious
of the focusing. After much testing with a manual 50mm f1.8 lens I
concluded that the image, when focused on the screen did not agree
with the focus confirmation indicator. The camera seemed to focus
beyond the subject as in the Philbert example.
I contacted Fuji UK technical department to explain the problem. To
my amazement they said "Yes, that's right. You have to depend on
the confirmation indicator, not on the focusing screen".
I was dumbfounded and asked them to explain.
They said that there was nothing that could be done about it and it
was to do with the thickness of the CCD . They said it would be far
too costly for Fuji to change the design.
I then contacted the biggest pro dealer in the UK and asked them if
they were aware of this. They said yes, but most of their customers
were happy to stick with the camera. They also said that they had
had the Japanese over explaining that it was necessary to use the
sharpest setting to avoid the propblem and other bits of
un-convincing waffle (like using a smaller aperture). I then
contacted another local pro dealer who informed me that one of his
customers had lost a huge amount of money on a job as a result of
the focusing problem but that most of his customers, also, were
sticking with the camera in spite of the problem. Apparently they
were happy to make the necessary compensation when focusing. He
thought the problem existed with auto-focus as well.
I have been very reluctant to post this in view of the various
complaints of whining about the camera but this was from the
horse's mouth!
It makes one wonder if the S2 owners who are quite satisfied with
the camera have actually done manual focus tests with a fast lens
wide open.
As I have not got any other information (particularly from Fuji) to
add to the subject, I don't want to be dragged into a discussion
about it but will watch with interest what others may contribute.
I've decided to stick with the camera because I don't like the D100
and I can live with the confirmation indicator with fast lenses -
just. It feels uncomfortable, knowing it is wrong.
This has been a most helpful forum which I have thoroughly enjoyed
reading and hope this info might be useful.
Peter K

Peter K

Click to expand...

Peter Kent said:

Kevin Roczey said:

Kevin R.

Philbert said:

Hello All,

This is a really great forum.

In order to determine if your S2 has a real focus problem (versus
sharpness, shakiness, mirror slap movement ...) and what the extent
of the focus problem is, shoot manually and auto focused test shots
as described below:

Refer to the test images at the following URL:

http://www.wendiphoenixphotography.com/Focus/

Make sure that your camera is mounted on a sturdy tripod.
Make sure CSM item #7 is disabled.
Make sure Auto Focus is off for Manual Focus shot.
Make sure Auto Focus is set to Single for Auto Focus shot.
Shoot image in manual or aperture priority mode.
Set Aperature to lowest (most open) allowed value for your lens.
If using zoom, use middle of zoom range.
Focus on the center card (ace).
If manually focusing, take your time and do it carefully. Adjust
viewfinder diopter correction as needed.
If Auto Focusing, make sure to include both spade symbol and white
space in sensor box.
Do not use hard sharpness settings or Photoshop USM to improve image.
Use even illumination on all cards.

Of course, this test may be performed with other than playing
cards. Just make sure that you have a wide enough space to see
both ends extend beyond your depth of field.

If your camera / lens combination is working correctly you should
see both ends of the card sequence out of focus and your sharpest
point of focus should be the ace. I'll go out on a limb here and
say that your depth of field should extend one third in front of
and two thirds behind your point of sharpest focus.

If you find that your sharpest point of focus is not the Ace (like
mine) and you find out why, please let me know.

My images were shot with 24mm-85mm f/2.8-4D AF Zoom-Nikkor lens,
ISO 200. AF in file name is Auto Focus and MF is Manual Focus.

Philbert

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

--
I have been following this forum for about three months and
purchased my S2 about four weeks ago. I was immediately suspicious
of the focusing. After much testing with a manual 50mm f1.8 lens I
concluded that the image, when focused on the screen did not agree
with the focus confirmation indicator. The camera seemed to focus
beyond the subject as in the Philbert example.
I contacted Fuji UK technical department to explain the problem. To
my amazement they said "Yes, that's right. You have to depend on
the confirmation indicator, not on the focusing screen".
I was dumbfounded and asked them to explain.
They said that there was nothing that could be done about it and it
was to do with the thickness of the CCD . They said it would be far
too costly for Fuji to change the design.
I then contacted the biggest pro dealer in the UK and asked them if
they were aware of this. They said yes, but most of their customers
were happy to stick with the camera. They also said that they had
had the Japanese over explaining that it was necessary to use the
sharpest setting to avoid the propblem and other bits of
un-convincing waffle (like using a smaller aperture). I then
contacted another local pro dealer who informed me that one of his
customers had lost a huge amount of money on a job as a result of
the focusing problem but that most of his customers, also, were
sticking with the camera in spite of the problem. Apparently they
were happy to make the necessary compensation when focusing. He
thought the problem existed with auto-focus as well.
I have been very reluctant to post this in view of the various
complaints of whining about the camera but this was from the
horse's mouth!
It makes one wonder if the S2 owners who are quite satisfied with
the camera have actually done manual focus tests with a fast lens
wide open.
As I have not got any other information (particularly from Fuji) to
add to the subject, I don't want to be dragged into a discussion
about it but will watch with interest what others may contribute.
I've decided to stick with the camera because I don't like the D100
and I can live with the confirmation indicator with fast lenses -
just. It feels uncomfortable, knowing it is wrong.
This has been a most helpful forum which I have thoroughly enjoyed
reading and hope this info might be useful.
Peter K

Peter K

Click to expand...

Greg Marshall said:

Peter,

I think this may be a case of misunderstanding the degree of a
problem. That is, it may be that Fuji couldn't get the CCD
positioned exactly right, but that the error is small enough to be
insignificant in most cases.

Click to expand...

Greg Marshall said:

In any case, I have done this test on my S2 and find that the auto
focus works as well as I can measure. I also tried manual focus,
but frankly, the focusing screen is so bad for manual focusing that
I trust the AF sensor much more than my ability to perceive focus
on that little screen.

Click to expand...

Greg Marshall said:

Greg Marshall said:

I contacted Fuji UK technical department to explain the problem. To
my amazement they said "Yes, that's right. You have to depend on
the confirmation indicator, not on the focusing screen".
I was dumbfounded and asked them to explain.
They said that there was nothing that could be done about it and it
was to do with the thickness of the CCD . They said it would be far
too costly for Fuji to change the design.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Greg Marshall said:

Greg Marshall said:

Peter K

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Philbert said:

Hello All,

This is a really great forum.

In order to determine if your S2 has a real focus problem (versus
sharpness, shakiness, mirror slap movement ...) and what the extent
of the focus problem is, shoot manually and auto focused test shots
as described below:

Refer to the test images at the following URL:

http://www.wendiphoenixphotography.com/Focus/

Make sure that your camera is mounted on a sturdy tripod.
Make sure CSM item #7 is disabled.
Make sure Auto Focus is off for Manual Focus shot.
Make sure Auto Focus is set to Single for Auto Focus shot.
Shoot image in manual or aperture priority mode.
Set Aperature to lowest (most open) allowed value for your lens.
If using zoom, use middle of zoom range.
Focus on the center card (ace).
If manually focusing, take your time and do it carefully. Adjust
viewfinder diopter correction as needed.
If Auto Focusing, make sure to include both spade symbol and white
space in sensor box.
Do not use hard sharpness settings or Photoshop USM to improve image.
Use even illumination on all cards.

Of course, this test may be performed with other than playing
cards. Just make sure that you have a wide enough space to see
both ends extend beyond your depth of field.

If your camera / lens combination is working correctly you should
see both ends of the card sequence out of focus and your sharpest
point of focus should be the ace. I'll go out on a limb here and
say that your depth of field should extend one third in front of
and two thirds behind your point of sharpest focus.

If you find that your sharpest point of focus is not the Ace (like
mine) and you find out why, please let me know.

My images were shot with 24mm-85mm f/2.8-4D AF Zoom-Nikkor lens,
ISO 200. AF in file name is Auto Focus and MF is Manual Focus.

Philbert

Click to expand...

Jim DeLuco said:

Jim DeLuco said:

Jim DeLuco said:

Philbert said:

Hello All,

This is a really great forum.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Jim DeLuco said:

I also heard another explanation that fuji deliberately made the S2
softer because of complaints of images that were too sharp in the
S1. Your information sounds more plausible than the "too sharp"
explanation, which in my opinion is fabricated by fuji.
--
Jim DeLuco
DeLuco Photography
http://www.delucophoto.com

Click to expand...

Robert Karpa said:

Philbert said:

Hello All,

This is a really great forum.

In order to determine if your S2 has a real focus problem (versus
sharpness, shakiness, mirror slap movement ...) and what the extent
of the focus problem is, shoot manually and auto focused test shots
as described below:

Refer to the test images at the following URL:

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Robert Karpa said:

Robert Karpa said:

Make sure that your camera is mounted on a sturdy tripod.
Make sure CSM item #7 is disabled.
Make sure Auto Focus is off for Manual Focus shot.
Make sure Auto Focus is set to Single for Auto Focus shot.
Shoot image in manual or aperture priority mode.
Set Aperature to lowest (most open) allowed value for your lens.
If using zoom, use middle of zoom range.
Focus on the center card (ace).
If manually focusing, take your time and do it carefully. Adjust
viewfinder diopter correction as needed.
If Auto Focusing, make sure to include both spade symbol and white
space in sensor box.
Do not use hard sharpness settings or Photoshop USM to improve image.
Use even illumination on all cards.

Of course, this test may be performed with other than playing
cards. Just make sure that you have a wide enough space to see
both ends extend beyond your depth of field.

If your camera / lens combination is working correctly you should
see both ends of the card sequence out of focus and your sharpest
point of focus should be the ace. I'll go out on a limb here and
say that your depth of field should extend one third in front of
and two thirds behind your point of sharpest focus.

If you find that your sharpest point of focus is not the Ace (like
mine) and you find out why, please let me know.

My images were shot with 24mm-85mm f/2.8-4D AF Zoom-Nikkor lens,
ISO 200. AF in file name is Auto Focus and MF is Manual Focus.

Philbert

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Igoforit said:

Philbert said:

Hello All,

This is a really great forum.

In order to determine if your S2 has a real focus problem (versus
sharpness, shakiness, mirror slap movement ...) and what the extent
of the focus problem is, shoot manually and auto focused test shots
as described below:

Refer to the test images at the following URL:

http://www.wendiphoenixphotography.com/Focus/

Make sure that your camera is mounted on a sturdy tripod.
Make sure CSM item #7 is disabled.
Make sure Auto Focus is off for Manual Focus shot.
Make sure Auto Focus is set to Single for Auto Focus shot.
Shoot image in manual or aperture priority mode.
Set Aperature to lowest (most open) allowed value for your lens.
If using zoom, use middle of zoom range.
Focus on the center card (ace).
If manually focusing, take your time and do it carefully. Adjust
viewfinder diopter correction as needed.
If Auto Focusing, make sure to include both spade symbol and white
space in sensor box.
Do not use hard sharpness settings or Photoshop USM to improve image.
Use even illumination on all cards.

Of course, this test may be performed with other than playing
cards. Just make sure that you have a wide enough space to see
both ends extend beyond your depth of field.

If your camera / lens combination is working correctly you should
see both ends of the card sequence out of focus and your sharpest
point of focus should be the ace. I'll go out on a limb here and
say that your depth of field should extend one third in front of
and two thirds behind your point of sharpest focus.

If you find that your sharpest point of focus is not the Ace (like
mine) and you find out why, please let me know.

My images were shot with 24mm-85mm f/2.8-4D AF Zoom-Nikkor lens,
ISO 200. AF in file name is Auto Focus and MF is Manual Focus.

Philbert

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Philbert said:

On my S2, the manual and autofocus points agreed pretty well. Its
just that they were both wrong. My S2 is at Fuji now for repair.
I hope that Fuji can come up with a fix for these focus problems
because the S2 is so awesome in all other regards. As to your
specific problem, I have seen others complain that their manual and
autofocus do not agree.

I strongly recommend that any potential new S2 owner perform a
focus test at wide open aperture with their camera / lens
combination. Many people don't shoot below f5.6 anyway so they may
never notice the problem. However if you do need to open up your
lens on occasion, its best to know what will happen. I recommend
testing both manual focus and autofocus. You will need to transfer
the image into a computer or print it to verify the presence or
absence of the problem (the LCD is not sharp enough to see the
problem).

I dream of the day I will be able to take that special location
shot of the bride in magical soft fading evening light with her
eyes sharply focused and the background slipping wonderfully out of
focus. Asking her to hold her arm up in front of her face to focus
on (and having to guess the distance) ruins the mood of the moment.

Do you plan to send your S2 in for repair?

Philbert

Robert Karpa said:

Hello Philbert,
I have a similar issue with my S2. The autofocus places the point
of focus just a little further away from the camera position than
it should. It is very difficult to focus manually with the S2
viewfinder but you can see the point of critical focus and the
depth of field quite well if you fill the frame with a computer
keyboard, from around 2 - 3 feet distance depending on your lens.
You can focus on a specific key and see how the focus drops off on
the other keys. If I focus manually - using my eyeball to gauge
the point of focus, not the green focus indicator light - I can
achive the ultimate sharpness that the lens / camera is capable of.
This tells me that at least in my case the optics are all aligned
and correct and the problem is probably that the autofocus module
needs some tweaking. Perhaps some others more knowledgeable can
advise if this is just as simple software calibration issue or a
more involved repair. In actual fact the autofocus places the
point of focus at the far end of the depth of field so this would
not really be an issue for me unless I was shooting wide open at
distances closer than 3 feet - otherwise the depth of field would
cover it.
Robert Karpa

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Robert Karpa said:

Hi Philbert,

Let me clarify - I'm not entirely sure we are on the same page.
With Autofocus I do get the focus offset as I described below. If
I use manual focus and rely on the little green focus indicator
light in the viewfinder the results are the same as with autofocus.
If I use manual focusing and ignore the little green light - just
relying on my eyes to see where the sharpest point of focus is -
that is when I get the sharpest image.

It seems that the camera's focusing system is offsetting the focus
slightly.

I'm beginning to wonder if this is by design. I say this for two
reasons. One the autofocus sets the point of focus very precisely
at a point just inside but on the far end of the depth of field
(with lens wide open). It seems that this is just too critical a
point to be accidental. Secondly, I've noticed a very interesting
behavoir using the Nikor 60mm Micro lens. At normal focusing
distances the offset is apparent. But when I am in macro mode,
very close to the subject there is no offset whatsover. Very
unusual and it make me wonder if Fuji has designed this in such a
way as to add a very slight amount of optical softness at further
distances to help to blend the image pixels and avoid artifacts
appearing in the fine details / lines in landscape or cityscape
shots. When you are in macro mode the camera is more than capable
of producing the detail required and the depth of field is far less
and it would make sense to eliminate the focus offset. I'm going
to investigate further before I do anything. I've sent an email to
Fuji Canada to see if they have any information on whether this is
actually the case or not. Let me know if you do get your camera
repaired and how it went.
Robert Karpa

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