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Castrated 60D Top LCD panel. Who uses it ?
- Thread starter Photato
- Start date
I think the only "flawed design logic" being applied here is your flawed design logic. The 50D's LCD went from one that looks like a cluttered hodge-podge of randomly scattered information:
...to one that is far better organized, cleaner, less cluttered, and more logically laid out, on the 60D:
Plus, the hard buttons above the LCD screen now correspond with the information displayed on the LCD in the box directly below the button. For example, the ISO button sits right above the ISO numbers on the LCD. I also like that the exposure compensation scale has a more prominent, more centered position on the LCD, as opposed to being crammed into the corner in the previous design. Also, the row of boxes across the top of the LCD (AF mode, Drive mode, ISO, Metering mode) is much easier to scan across with your eyes.
But let's not discount how informative the rear LCD's Quick screen is:
We live in modern times now, where everyone has iPhones and other smart phones with large color screens and graphical UI's. People need to let go of their obsession with monochrome LCD screens. I used to have this:
Now I have this:
I'm sure some people moan that the move away from monochrome LCD's to high resolution color LCD screens was the beginning of the end for all mankind. Does my Droid X's beautiful, large, high resolution LCD screen consume more battery power than an old monochrome LCD phone screen? Sure! Do I care? No! I use it and I enjoy it, just like I do with the color screen on my 60D.
To use and enjoy a large color screen as a means of interfacing with pertinent camera information is not a sin or a sacrifice. We (thankfully) no longer live in a world were we rely exclusively on a small, dingy, monochrome LCD screen for all our camera information. And there is certainly a value to removing some of the clutter from the small top panel LCD and moving it to a back-panel LCD screen. Certainly, many higher-end camera bodies have adapted this strategy. And I think it's smart that Canon has done the same with the 60D.
Well said! LOL.
Hmm, sounds like you are a Drebel user who had to use the rear LCD. It can be much easier to view the top LCD for shot settings than wretching your hands to view the rear LCD without wanting to put the viewfinder up to your eye to see the shot settings.
It's easier to change settings using the top LCD because you can see the buttons you are hitting while still looking at the top LCD. The top LCD being monochrome uses notably less battery power and will not draw attention to yourself in a dark room such as a performance.
Olga Johnson
Forum Pro
With the small size of the Rebel (and small or medium size lenses) it doesn't feel like wrenching your hands to use the rear LCD or the rear buttons of WB, focus mode, etc. as it does if you try to change settings using the 50D or 7D LCD, for example.
Also, if you're shooting from the waist using the articulating LCD, it's much quicker to use the top LCD to make changes.
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Olga
I find it far easier to hold a camera "at the ready" with the top LCD pointing up than the rear LCD pointing up - easier on the forearm muscles.
That's an unlikely task with how slow and inaccurate 60D liveview autofocus is.
No, both are equally easy to view. The problem with the Top LCD is the lack of two important parameters, so I have to use the Main LCD, hit the Q button, and tap on the multi-controller to make sure everything is in order and make adjustments if needed, it is Menu digging. With the top LCD it would have been faster if it was more complete.
Right, but in practice, the unique changes you can make there are limited to 3, hence castrated.
So is for changing AF, Drive and Metering, that's it, the rest I can do with the OVF without removing the camera from my eye and I'm ready to shoot.
If I'm in Live View Mode it is faster and easier to use the Main Larger LCD than the top panel, because I would always check there for WB and File Type.
The idea behind the little monochrome LCD is that you can make quick changes there with hard buttons and serve as a quick info-panel for the most relevant settings.
I don't need to see there parameters cluttering the little screen that are already on the OVF and the Main LCD. Even if there was not a hard button for Raw and WB, I still would like to see those on there. It would save a trip to the main screen.
In conclusion, this goes along the hierarchy of camera bodies, the lesser bodies require more menu digging to change settings.
I guess this is the way it is.
It's quite clear you have NO IDEA what you are talking about. You are complaining that the top LCD lacks two parameters: WB and File Type. Lets take a SERIOUS look at this so-called "issue".
First of all: File Type.
You seem to have the impression we used to be able to change the File Type via the top panel. FALSE. This has NEVER been the case. The top LCD only displays the file type! You have ALWAYS had to go into the menu to change the file type! There is NO hard button on the top panel of the 60D (or any XXD) that allows you to change file type via the LCD. This is the same with the 7D and 5D models too. For example, here is the 7D's top panel. As you can see, there is no File Type or Image Quality button to access this parameter via the top panel LCD:
And here is how you change the file type with the 7D:
As you can see, file type has always been selected via the rear LCD menu! But the 60D Quick Menu now makes this navigation quicker and easier to do because you no longer have to scroll through a bunch of tabbed screens. It allows you to see everything all at once. And you can get to wherever you want with the joypad. The Quick Menu gives you a better graphical interface and easier access.
Plus, with the 60D, you can assign file type (aka "Image Quality") to the Set button. So if you regularly change your file type, putting it on the Set button gets you directly to the Image Quality screen!
So, to recap,
- You have NEVER been able to change File Type via the top panel LCD.
- There have NEVER been any hard buttons on the top panel LCD that allows you to access this parameter.
- The top panel LCD only displays the file type that you had selected via the menu !
- The Quick Menu allows faster navigation of the menu.
- And you can assign file type (aka "Image Quality) to the Set button.
Now that brings us to: WB
Keep the Quick Menu set to WB. That means when you hit the Q button, then hit the Set button, it gets you right to the WB screen. This is two button presses. With the top panel LCD, sometimes you had to do two button presses anyways because in lower light you had to press the "Lamp" button in addition to the WB button. Plus, with the 60D's WB screen, it makes it a lot easier to adjust your K value if you're shooting with the K setting. That's because when you wheel to the K icon on the WB screen, it gives you the ability to adjust the color temperature right there! Previously, you had to dig into the menu to make that adjustment! So in reality, the 60D's system is as good, or better, than the previous system!
So your second point is taken care of as well.
By now, I think people can clearly see that you are either:
- intentionally ignorant
- terribly ill-informed
- a provocative "troll" who feels the need to use the word "castrated" in starting a thread
- making a mountain out of a mole hill
- need medication
ROTFL hahaha !!!
At least you are funny ma man !
The matter of fact is:
The 7D has all the relevant information on the top panel. The 60D does not.
The 7D has a Dedicated Hard button for Raw and JPEG. The 60D does not.
The 7D has a Dedicated Hard button for White Balance, The 60D does not.
So T3, stop arguing against the obvious.
The 60D was deliberately castrated so users need to dig menus to change parameters.
There are some workarounds, but those are not as effective as direct control with dedicated buttons.
The Set button can be programmed but you lose then its other functions and even conflict with other as the DPR review pointed out.
So, It is what it is. Canon made the 60D top panel almost useless. They might as well got rid of it.
It doesn't seem useless when you've come from a 500D, or a Rebel T whatever you call them.
It's very useful and very nice
Yeah, it does. But it doesn't do what you seem to think it does. This button does NOT allow you to access the file type parameter. It merely activates simultaneous RAW+JPEG recording! Is is NOT a button that activates direct access to the file type parameter on the top panel LCD or the rear LCD. You still have to go into the menu for that.
And like I said, Q + Set gets you to the WB screen on the rear LCD. And no, the button is not exclusively dedicated to WB. It's a dual function button that activates two functions, sometimes causing you to change the wrong function.
How bout you try to get your facts straight before posting! Haha
Nope. You never could change file type via the top panel. And the Quick screen makes menu nav very easy.
Yeah, dedicated buttons like the RAW+JPEG that you think is used for direct access to the file type parameter...but doesn't actually do that? Lol
But if it allows you to access what you want, what's the problem? If you regularly change your WB, and want direct access to it, just assign it to the Set button. The main problem is that you're just trolling for trouble.
Why don't you start a thread suggesting this! See how many people support you on this idea. It'll be enjoyable watching you be burned to a crisp! Haha.
cellartroll
Leading Member
That I have NEVER looked at the top screen for White Balance or Filetype information. Still, if you hate the 60D and its castrated screen I will happily exchange either my 10D 30D or 550D for it and you'll be very happy
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http://www.pbase.com/thecellartroll
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http://www.pbase.com/thecellartroll
Well, at least the 7D gives you the option, so you don't have go dig menus for quick temporary changes to JPEG if you mostly shoot Raw or vice verse.
Besides, this thread is not really about hard buttons.
Don't try now to deviate from the main subject.
That is exactly the first thing I did when I got the 60D. Problem is the only way to activate the OVF electronic Level is if you program the Set button for that. Otherwise, there is no electronic level.
You are a perverse man and a pyromaniac ! I won't give you that pleasure !!
I don't hate the 60D, just the Canon guy that designed some of its user interface.That I have NEVER looked at the top screen for White Balance or Filetype information. Still, if you hate the 60D and its castrated screen I will happily exchange either my 10D 30D or 550D for it and you'll be very happy
Besides, this thread is not really about bashing the 60D.
It was about how to take advantage of the top info panel.
But as you can see, so far nobody has come with a reasonable argument for its usefulness as a tool.
And no, I won't exchange my 60D for any of those cameras. That would be a downgrade, thank you. But I would gladly take a 1D4 if you can spare one.
You're a piece of... work. Thanks for telling me what is and is not easier to do with the camera in my hands!
Yes, the exposure triangle. Having too many things shown in a small area can make for a less satisfying experience for the user compared to less items better organized. Ask around and you'll find users rarely changing WB or file format/JPG size.
No, also for changing the exposure triangle: ISO, shutter speed, apeture, even exposure compensation. You'll not always be having your eye up to the viewfinder. There'll be times when you have the camera down "at rest" where you want to change the exposure triangle settings too.
No, that's not the idea behind it. On Drebels it wasn't until the XTi came out that Canon had the rear LCD show shot settings because the 2 Drebels before it has a small rear monochrome LCD (that showed shot settings and EC) above the image display LCD. The XTi removed the rear monochrome LCD to make room for a bigger color LCD. And it probably wasn't until maybe the 40D when you could show shot settings on the rear LCD of that line of camera.
The whole concept of the top LCD is from film SLRs.
Just why and when are you needing to change WB or file format/size on the fly in an instant?!
Please re-read, you are not getting the concept of the 7D RAW+JPG button. It does not let you select a different file format/size to record.
You still don't get it, do you? No, the RAW+JPEG button does not allow you to switch from RAW to JPEG, or vice versa! What it does is add a RAW file if you are shooting JPEG, or add a JPEG if you are shooting RAW. No, it does not allow "quick temporary changes to JPEG if you mostly shoot RAW or vice versa."
Wow, and you're calling other people "thick and obtuse"? Look in the mirror pal!
First, you thought the RAW+JPEG button was a dedicated hard button to access the file type settings. WRONG!
Then, even after you were told what the RAW+JPEG button actually does, you still got it wrong, thinking that it allows you to switch between RAW shooting and JPEG shootings, and vice versa. WRONG!
Of course, you're also the genius who can't understand what the "point" of the 60D's top panel LCD is, don't know why anyone would use it, and don't know under what circumstances it would be used:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=37644970
And, you also mistook the back panel LCD of a 1D MKIV for the top panel LCD, even after I posted an image of the top panel LCD!
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=37647389
I could probably go on, but by now I think it's been clearly established that you really don't know what the heck you're talking about.
Uh, yes it is. After all, how else were you expecting to supposedly access the parameters that you are whining about on the top panel LCD? And aren't you the one complaining about making parameter changes without going into the menu?
How can I be deviating when I'm merely responding to your posts?
Even with the Set button set to the OVF electronic level, it's still incredibly easy to access WB or File Type view the Quick Menu. Try it for yourself and you'll realize just how petty your whining is! For example, if I want to change the File Type and the Quick menu happens to already be at the File Type position, it's merely: Q, then turn the finger wheel to adjust the file type. If you want to change the WB and the Quick menu happens to already be at the WB position, it's merely: Q, then turn the finger wheel to adjust the WB. On the other hand, if the Quick menu happens to be at WB, but you want to change the File Type, it's a quick and easy navigation (two clicks) with the joypad. No "digging in the menus" or any of the other false hardship you're whining about.
Clearly, even you realize how foolish, ridiculous, and wrong you sound. That's why you are so certain that you would be burned by starting a thread recommending that the top panel LCD be eliminated.
At any rate, it's pretty clear that you're already made a pretty big embarrassment of yourself in this thread already. I'm not sure if you're just an idiot, or an outright liar, because your claims and posts have been blatantly wrong so many times!
Sure, that's why you chose the word "castrated" in your title for this thread.I don't hate the 60D, just the Canon guy that designed some of its user interface.That I have NEVER looked at the top screen for White Balance or Filetype information. Still, if you hate the 60D and its castrated screen I will happily exchange either my 10D 30D or 550D for it and you'll be very happy
Besides, this thread is not really about bashing the 60D.
Uh...how about taking advantage of that beautiful 3" high resolution LCD panel on the back of the camera, too, you buffoon! For the last two to three decades of modern SLR photography, camera "info" has been isolated to a small, plain, dingy, monochromatic LCD screen. We live in the 21st century now, and finally, camera "info" is moving beyond that small monochrome top panel LCD screen. Everything doesn't need to be crammed into that small top info panel! Just look at the top panel of the top cameras in the world. Btw, notice that there is no File Type or WB info crammed into any of these top panel screens. In other words, according to you, they are all useless and castrated!!!
Nikon D3:
Canon 1D MKIV:
Sony A900:
And for all you stubborn, narrow-minded, conservative types who hate the very idea of using the rear LCD for camera info, consider that even ultra-conservative Leica realized the value of an LCD graphical UI on the rear LCD panel. They chose to go with a very simply, clean design, with minimal buttons and dials, but with the rear LCD panel as the central control center. I think if ultra-conservative Leica can accept and embrace the rear LCD, maybe some of you people can too.
And yes, it has a "castrated" and completely "useless" top panel LCD that lacks File Type and WB info too:
On the contrary, many people have made the argument, as well as pointed out your foolishness. You just choose to ignore it! And since other cameras have similar top info panels (that also lack WB and File Type info) as you can see with the examples I've posted above, I guess all these manufacturers have independently decided to continue to make cameras with these useless panels, even though "so far nobody has come with a reasonable argument" for their usefulness as a tool!
Keith Reeder
Senior Member
It tells you stuff about your camera settings - there couldn't be a more self-evident "argument for its usefulness".
The fact that it might not display some arbitrarily-chosen parameter or other, is utterly irrelevant.
But what is relevant it is that for the vast majority of DSLR users, the omission of WB and file format data is an utter non-issue, because of all the settings data available those two are the least necessary to display, for all the reasons explained - time and time and time again - up the page.
If you shoot RAW all the time you know what format you're using; and white balance when you're shooting RAW is irrelevant because it has no impact on the RAW file.
Not even on exposure. The WB setting is simply a metadata tag attached to the RAW data. It doesn't touch the RAW data themselves and therefore cannot affect the "exposure triangle" (shutter speed, aperture, ISO) as written to the RAW - despite what the theory might say about the meter reacting differently to different reflected wavelengths.
I've just tested this, taking otherwise identical shots with just the WB setting changed between shots, and guess what? Identical shutter speeds (in AV mode) right across the board - the shutter speed would change if the WB was impacting on the exposure, because ISO and aperture are fixed, and it just didn't.
An intelligent discussion on the matter here:
http://digital-photography-school.com/forum/general-chit-chat/59164-does-white-balance-affect-exposure.html
The fact that you can see different "blinkies" flashing on the LCD if you do the test here: http://digital-photography-school.com/forum/502672-post15.html is irrelevant, because the in-camera histogram uses a jpeg with the in-camera settings applied as its source.
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