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What if the D3s is Nikon's answer to the 5DM2?

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You've used every pro Nikon body, but have settled on the 5D. You've started 5 threads in the last few weeks bemoaning what Nikon hasn't done with video or resolution at that price point. Yes, I get that your clients' demand 21 mp resolution and 1080p video and that the Canon 5D mk II is the only photographic product that fits your bill. I get it. We get it. Canon is great, Nikon isn't. If your client's can tell the difference between 12 and 21 mp images then, they can tell the difference between 21 mp and a 40 mp MF image, and either way you are still using the wrong camera to take photographs with or you're cheap. The majority of your arguments point to how great the 5D II is at video. How about photography? I'm sure it's great as a studio or landscape camera and I know a lot of wedding photographers that use it too. But ask them to AF outside of centre in a dark hall/church and they miss most of the time where as my Nikon bodies nail those most of the time.

If you've found a product that works for you, that's great, truly. But I don't get these multiple antagonistic posts by you about something none of us or you can control. The only thing we can control is what is available now and what meets our needs now. The 5D clearly meets your needs, so sell your remaining Nikon lenses and move on. I don't think any of us would mind if you laughed with your Canon friends about how Nikon is so 2005.

Enough please. You've turned speculation and apparent inaction into some kind of mission. Take a pill and wait a couple of months.
ScottMac said:
ne beginner said:
You're suggesting that Nikon's responded with a 12 mp, 720 p video, pro-grade build and performance, full size top-of-the-line body, to a 21 mp, 1080p video, "pro-sumer" grade Canon body?
Click to expand...
They tried, they failed.
ScottMac said:
I don't know the first thing about video, so maybe I'm missing something, but I can't find any way to compare these two.
Click to expand...
You are missing something, in the hands of pros, the 5DM2 is not only a pro camera it's the pro camera of choice of many pro photographers and is one of the greatest dslrs ever made. I've shot the D3, D700, D3X, D3s and 7D but primarily use the 5DM2 because of the large file size and the FF 1080 video. Nikon does not have a FF 1080 camera at any price, that makes the 5DM2 unique in the world and a top pro camera. To say imagined build and AF limitations and price make it prosumer is ridiculous and incorrect, sorry. To say it is the pro 35mm dslr of choice among major film and tv productions is correct and irrefutable.
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--
"You're guaranteed to miss 100% of the shots you don't take" - Wayne Gretzky
 
I think people shouldn't be so literal.
IN FACT, the D3s WAS (indeed) Nikon's response to the 5DMII.
That isn't to say that Nikon designed it to compete with the 5DMII.
But, rather, it was the de facto response in time and place.

Nikon and Canon were not having a conversation.
Nikon's "response" was a private statement, because Nikon has its own dialog.
A shout across the world for higher ISO.

--

Sincerely,

GlobalGuyUSA
 
You cannot be serious!!!! I've read some rubbish posts in my time here but this one wins the prize.
 
  • in the past Nikon have generally seen slower product upgrades. But this has always been compensated by upgrades that were spectacular. Yes some products in the Nikon line-up are now long in the tooth (the D300s is pretty much the same as the D300 which is over 3 years old now, the D700 and D3s are over 2 years old, etc). But in their day these things had various features, such as high ISO, AF, which put everything else in the share
  • so I don't see why things would be different this time around. I think Nikon are once more going to stun the market with great things, At the D300s level we're likely to see a 16mp (as per D7k) or a 24mf sensor. At the D700 level we're likely to see great resolution
  • AND, we will have a mirrorless camera, which might well stun everyone, establishing new standards in perfomance, in video, etc.
so just relax.
 
ScottMac said:
ne beginner said:
You're suggesting that Nikon's responded with a 12 mp, 720 p video, pro-grade build and performance, full size top-of-the-line body, to a 21 mp, 1080p video, "pro-sumer" grade Canon body?
Click to expand...
They tried, they failed.
ScottMac said:
I don't know the first thing about video, so maybe I'm missing something, but I can't find any way to compare these two.
Click to expand...
You are missing something, in the hands of pros, the 5DM2 is not only a pro camera it's the pro camera of choice of many pro photographers and is one of the greatest dslrs ever made. I've shot the D3, D700, D3X, D3s and 7D but primarily use the 5DM2 because of the large file size and the FF 1080 video. Nikon does not have a FF 1080 camera at any price, that makes the 5DM2 unique in the world and a top pro camera. To say imagined build and AF limitations and price make it prosumer is ridiculous and incorrect, sorry. To say it is the pro 35mm dslr of choice among major film and tv productions is correct and irrefutable.
Click to expand...
So the D3s was not only Nikon's response to the 5D MkII, it was also a failure?

"Pro-grade" equipment is not what a pro photographer uses. Pro photographers use what ever equipment meets their needs and helps them earn their living. Pro grade gear is designed to be used much more, and be usable in more difficult conditions, as well as have more user inputs and settings, vs consumer grade gear.

Your 5D IS a very good camera ... for what it is designed to do. The fact that it does have 1080 video and 21 mp's at an affordable price does indeed make in unique. And it is popular with studio photographers shooting stills. As far as video, I don't know anything about the professional side of that, but I'll take your word for it that their are pro video photographers making a living with a 5D.

But to try and compare the build and performance of a 5D to a 1D, D3 or D700, and say the difference is imagined, is, well, ludicrous at best.
 
ScottMac said:
You are missing something, in the hands of pros, the 5DM2 is not only a pro camera it's the pro camera of choice of many pro photographers and is one of the greatest dslrs ever made. I...primarily use the 5DM2 because of the large file size and the FF 1080 video. Nikon does not have a FF 1080 camera at any price, that makes the 5DM2 unique in the world and a top pro camera. To say it is the pro 35mm dslr of choice among major film and tv productions is correct and irrefutable.
Click to expand...
That certainly appears to be true. Here's one example, a video of jet fighter pilots shot by super-talented Tyler Stableford with a 5D II:

http://www.tylerstableford.com/portfolio.php?dirid=11

I wish I could shoot like him. More realistically, I wish Nikon would come out with a respectably competitive DSLR in the near future. I'm Nikon user, with no plans to switch, but I'm feeling a bit left behind these days.
---------------
Tom B
 
Left ebhind by what? The best 135 framed sports camera ever made? The highest resolution 135 based camera for professionals?

If you want video, be aware that this is a still photographer's gear site. You will not find a whole lot of support here. That is why ScottMac is getting flak. It doesn't help that he ignores the facts about the build and useablilty of the D700, much less the D3S. If like ScottMac, video is your ONLY criteria, you are on the wrong forum.
Tom_Bruno said:
ScottMac said:
You are missing something, in the hands of pros, the 5DM2 is not only a pro camera it's the pro camera of choice of many pro photographers and is one of the greatest dslrs ever made. I...primarily use the 5DM2 because of the large file size and the FF 1080 video. Nikon does not have a FF 1080 camera at any price, that makes the 5DM2 unique in the world and a top pro camera. To say it is the pro 35mm dslr of choice among major film and tv productions is correct and irrefutable.
Click to expand...
That certainly appears to be true. Here's one example, a video of jet fighter pilots shot by super-talented Tyler Stableford with a 5D II:

http://www.tylerstableford.com/portfolio.php?dirid=11

I wish I could shoot like him. More realistically, I wish Nikon would come out with a respectably competitive DSLR in the near future. I'm Nikon user, with no plans to switch, but I'm feeling a bit left behind these days.
---------------
Tom B
Click to expand...
--

-> > "Oh, and since we're on the subject of advice, you may want to be a little leery of some of the advice you see on this, or any other, message board. If someone is giving you advice ......make a determination about how much weight you'll give that advice. You may find that sometimes there are 'serial-posters' on the internet that should read more and type less."
-Brian Blanco, Sarasota Florida

I include myself in that quote
Chris, Broussard, LA
 
TOF guy said:
But I wouldn't call the D7k an answer to the 5DMkII. Let's call a an orange an orange. The D700 successor will be the answer to the 5DMkII. Not the D3s, and not the upcoming D4.

Nikon was able to come up with an outstanding FF entry level, the D700, which 1) actually doesn't look liike an entry level camera (unlike the 5DMkII), 2) is still ahead of the curve in many ways. I trust Nikon to come with a D700 successor which will be a worthy successor to the current offering.
--
Thierry
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How is 12 MP and no video ahead of the curve? It's way behind. Just because the D700 is a good 12 MP camera that you like it doesn't mean it's ahead of the curve. Sometimes I think people here love 12 mp because it's easy to handle and they don't have clients that need anything more, and they don't need video. Hardly makes the D700 ahead of the curve, sorry, it just makes it good for you.
 
TOF guy said:
Good to read that. I'm very glad for those tv show and film producers. People here are photographers and can't care any less.

--
Thierry
Click to expand...
So all of this falls on deaf ears, why bother posting to this thread if you hate video.
 
sandy b said:
But the D7k compares rather well with the 5D2. Not its equal by any means. And Nikon will introduce its real answer this year, as the d7k shows. If Nikon has beefed up its prosumer dslr as it has the D7k, how much better will the D700 replacement be? I think substantially.
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And what would you think if the next Nikon FF was a D700s, identical to the D3s except for body size? I would be uninterested in 12 MP and 720 video at any price.
 
tommiejeep said:
but have you checked out the one and only thread he has posted on the Canon forums?

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1032&message=36107847

It also contains what could be the one and only photo. I really think this is what the 'ignore' button is all about unless one really likes this type of thread :)
Cheers,
--
Anticipate the Light and wing it when you get it wrong
Tom
http://taja.smugmug.com/
Click to expand...
Are you stalking me? I use the 5DM2 for video mostly, I use the Leaf Aptus on an H1 for stills. Sometimes friends ask me to shoot stuff for free, and many times it's low light or something for the web, so the 5DM2 works ok for that. I don't think any 35mm matches up to the Leaf for stills, it's not even close. I do think the 5DM2 with a Canon zoom has CA issues in bright sunlight, purple fringing and such, kind of like the Kodak slrn had but I don't know how bad it is with primes and under controlled circumstances. The D3X is much better than the 5DM2 for stills, no doubt. But ironically, this is why I wish Nikon had an answer to the 5DM2, you know, high MP with 1080 video because I am not going to buy 3 Nikon cameras and 1 Canon to get what I want, that's silly.

In regards to your post, which contributed nothing except a complaint, maybe I should ignore you.
 
GlobalGuyUSA said:
I think people shouldn't be so literal.
IN FACT, the D3s WAS (indeed) Nikon's response to the 5DMII.
That isn't to say that Nikon designed it to compete with the 5DMII.
But, rather, it was the de facto response in time and place.

Nikon and Canon were not having a conversation.
Nikon's "response" was a private statement, because Nikon has its own dialog.
A shout across the world for higher ISO.

--

Sincerely,

GlobalGuyUSA
Click to expand...
I agree.
 
antoineb said:
  • in the past Nikon have generally seen slower product upgrades. But this has always been compensated by upgrades that were spectacular. Yes some products in the Nikon line-up are now long in the tooth (the D300s is pretty much the same as the D300 which is over 3 years old now, the D700 and D3s are over 2 years old, etc). But in their day these things had various features, such as high ISO, AF, which put everything else in the share
  • so I don't see why things would be different this time around. I think Nikon are once more going to stun the market with great things,
Click to expand...
I agree, but I'm falling asleep waiting. Come on already get off your ass.
 
ne beginner said:
ScottMac said:
ne beginner said:
You're suggesting that Nikon's responded with a 12 mp, 720 p video, pro-grade build and performance, full size top-of-the-line body, to a 21 mp, 1080p video, "pro-sumer" grade Canon body?
Click to expand...
They tried, they failed.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
ne beginner said:
So the D3s was not only Nikon's response to the 5D MkII, it was also a failure?
Click to expand...
It was a failure in using 720 video instead of 1080, 720 makes it impossible to convince a producer or a client that it can be used when the 1080 Canon is all over the place. It also failed in terms of MP, 12 does not cut it in pro advertising photography, sorry.

But I hear you, I know as a piece of equipment, for many shooters, the D3s is a great camera. There are many times I need 2 more stops iso and wish I had a D3s.
 
ScottMac said:
TOF guy said:
Good to read that. I'm very glad for those tv show and film producers. People here are photographers and can't care any less.

--
Thierry
Click to expand...
So all of this falls on deaf ears, why bother posting to this thread if you hate video.
Click to expand...
I own a 5D2. It is a pretty good camera. But the AF is'nt great, I have had to reject one for dust and dirt problems, the low ISO banding is sometimes apparent and the D700 spanks it for high ISO work. D700 is also nicer to use IMO with a better sealed, more durable body and much better AF.

The 5D2 also happens to be produce good HD video. But even then, it is popular with video fans because of its video picture quality IN SPITE OF its obvious limitations. Most serious video users of the 5D2 choose to add a lot of gear to the body to make it practical and useable. You should see the rig serious videomakers end up adding to it !!

Using DSLRs for video was a development that most of the camera makers did not plan for. Even Canon. But Canon did a great job in moving to exploit this new and fast moving market. Nikon stuck to what they new, were more conservative and so let Canon establish themselves in the video DSLR space.

But things change. I dare say that in a couple of years time the 5D2 will be seen as way out of date. I suspect that something else ( perhaps from Canon, perhaps from Nikon, maybe Panasonic ) will have become the new video favourite. I suspect there will be a video-focused DSLR which is a lot easier to use than the 5D2 - the first to come to market to overcome the inherent problems of the DSLR body will probably do very well.

For general stills photography, I think the D700 is probably the better all-round tool although my 5D2 does great landscapes ! The files look very nice and it is easy to produce good looking images from the 5D2.

However, The lack of balance from the OP frankly makes him sound like some crazy fanboy.

Like I said, I have a 5D2 and it is a good camera. But the OP is exaggerating things in a strange way, for reasons only he can understand.

Its a bit strange how people get so opinionated about electronic objects that will always become obsolete. I wonder if he also gets so excited about his washing machine?? After all, that is just a tool to get a job done as well.

:)
 
bikinchris said:
Left ebhind by what? The best 135 framed sports camera ever made? The highest resolution 135 based camera for professionals?

If you want video, be aware that this is a still photographer's gear site. You will not find a whole lot of support here. That is why ScottMac is getting flak. It doesn't help that he ignores the facts about the build and useablilty of the D700, much less the D3S. If like ScottMac, video is your ONLY criteria, you are on the wrong forum.
Click to expand...
The wrong forum if you want to be liked and have positive responses to dslr video needs but not in regards to the D3s which has very god 720 video. To say this is a still photographer's gear site and that means no video discussion when video is a major component of the D3s and will be for the next FF Nikon is rude, inconsiderate, narrow minded and just plain wrong. No offense, but I know when I'm right, and I never said or even implied that video was my only criteria, you made that up to bolster your view. I am all about FF high MP AND 1080 video, which Nikon is sorely lacking.
 
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