Be careful ...

  • Thread starter Thread starter Karl H. Timmerman M.A.J.D.
  • Start date Start date
We agree! Regardless of the origins of global warming, there is some amount of it happening. The speed at which it is happening appears to be about the same as it was when the earth went into and came out of the "little ice age" in medievel times. Not all historic climate change is slow and we need to mitigate the devastating effects. Unlike our ancestors, we have technology and resources to do that.

My own opinion, which is subject to change, is that some amount of global warming is going to occurr and there is nothing mankind can do to prevent it or even slow it down. Civilised nations need to get prepared. Too much time has been devoted to questionable prevention and not enough time has been devoted to preparation.

Yes, I do think there is a social agenda at work that has nothing to do with terrestrial temeperatures. The inconclusive facts that are currently available have been used to whip up hysteria to facilitate an unrelated change in our way of life.
 
apparently the distraction now is the previous president : )

are we supposed to let him lie because the other lied before?
or to judge him for his acts regardless of what others have done.

if someone steals a car, the defense would have a hard time saying that he's not the first thief : )
and if they do, it wouldn't matter
 
I don't think you are quite correct there. Actually, skepticism in the science community toward man made global warming is greater now than it was when Bush was in power. The expose of the fraud of the global warming community has encouraged other scientists to speak out because they are less likely to wreck their careers in doing so.

I can't speak for Bill, but I absolutely do blame George Bush for allowing this folley to get out of control. He is the same guy who promoted the idiotic development of ethyl alcohol derived from corn as a viable substitute for fossil fuels. Any junior grade engineer with a calculator and 30 minutes of internet research could expose that sham. Nobody is claiming that fuel source has any relevance anymore. He did it under the false assumption that it would improve his political position.
 
Dramatic as that map is, it is largely uninformative and useless. The reason is they are basing the anomalies on a 1971 to 2000 base period. That is mere microseconds in geologic and climactic time periods and is too short to have any meaning. I expect you could find some other appropriate base period so that the map makes the opposite point if you wanted to waste your time on such things. Studies over appropriate time periods, thousands or tens of thousands of years, reveal wildly different climates at different times and these changes didn't always happen slowly either. The important point I gleaned from these studies is that climate change is inevitable and has taken place at times when man was no more able to affect these changes than the animals surrounding him.
 
You don't have to read the "Monday morning quarterback" opinion from USAToday. You can read the actual article, which I have excerpted below. Reading the whole thing and similar articles in other periodicals, these guys sound just like the Michael Mann's of today, only their opinions are different. Why should I regard such people as any more credible than the climatologists of the 1970's? Scientists from every generation, including those in the 21st century, always seem to think they have everything figured out. History almost always exposes their arrogance and folly. History also often exposes a hidden political agenda, such as that from the Catholic Church, in denying the sperical shape of the earth.
As they review the bizarre and unpredictable weather pattern of the past several years, a growing number of scientists are beginning to suspect that many seemingly contradictory meteorological fluctuations are actually part of a global climatic upheaval. However widely the weather varies from place to place and time to time, when meteorologists take an average of temperatures around the globe they find that the atmosphere has been growing gradually cooler for the past three decades. The trend shows no indication of reversing. Climatological Cassandras are becoming increasingly apprehensive, for the weather aberrations they are studying may be the harbinger of another ice age.
Read more: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,944914,00.html#ixzz1Ce1NyoXQ
 
experts dont always get things right
They don't, but there are other forces that play that determine what you think the experts are saying. And I don't even mean "sinister, diabolical, shadowy" things at all...
in the 60's they said we were heading for a new ice age

in the 80's we were told in the Uk (by experts) that Human mad cow disease (BSE)was going to kill 110000 people per year in the UK withing the next ten years(1988 this was said) so far the most people killed by BSE in any year has been around 50
Let us say that there are exactly 2 scientists working on climate change (for simplification purposes). Scientist A thinks that maybe the planet is warming up, but he's not sure. Scientist B says that we're all going to die.

Which story do you think the media is going to report? It's always the more sensational one. The research study that shows that nothing is going on, or things are like we thought they were, or that we think something is going on - that's not "news". That's not "interesting". You don't hear about that. But "we're all going to die?!?" - that gets reported.

I recently read an article about how this is a problem even in serious medical journals - studies that are "interesting" get published in the journals, while studies that aren't don't. So studies that hit some sort of statistical anomaly that are "interesting" and challenge previous thoughts and studies get published, while the studies that say "nope, everything is just like we thought it was" don't.

And once you add in the inability of the regular media to get basic facts right - I mean some guy who claims to be a scientist (heck, let's say he is a scientist) says "We're planning on doing a study under the hypothesis that cats cause cancer", once the media gets ahold of it, can turn into "Study proves! that cats cause cancer!". I mean that's an extreme case, but surely you've noticed how you always see studies saying we're entering an ice age when it's been cold out, and studies saying there's global warming and things are getting warmer when it's been unusually hot out, right?

I'm just saying - when "experts" say we're heading for a new ice age, what we really mean is that the media has been saying we're heading for a new ice age. Whether the "experts" are really thinking this at all, or whether they found one guy who wanted media attention - who knows.
the milenium bug (Y2K) was according to experts gona couse havock to the world computeer systems at midnight 2000 (never happened but a lot of experts made money ;) )
other predictions by experts were wrong too SARS epidemic......BIRD flu...

and only in 2009 UK health experts predicted 90000 people would die from Swine flu they revised this down to 70000 ... massive error as less than 1000 died from swine flu that year
Ditto with the media - who do you think they're going to quote for their story, the guy who says maybe between 100 and 1,000 people will die at worst, or the "OMG we're all going to die!!!" guy? (sadly - it would definitely be great if the media was more accurate).

And then others are a case of "it would have been a disaster if we hadn't prepared for it, but we did - so...it was fine", like the Y2K thing. In Minnesota here we had a terrible freezing rain thing a month or two back. Absolutely awful - it kept raining, and the roads were like ice skating rinks. Nobody seemed to see it coming - the road crews weren't out until later, you didn't hear about it on the news, etc etc.

A couple of weeks later there was another huge storm. This time - surprisingly - nobody died in a car accident the entire storm. Even though it was just as bad or worse, since everyone knew it was coming and remembered how bad the last one was everyone was prepared for it - they drove slower, or stayed at home, etc etc.
so just remember this when you hear the term EXPERT
an EX is a hasbeen and a spurt is a drip under pressure

dont believe the hype ;)
lol, everything I've said mostly agrees what that. :-)
 
I wouldn't be surprised at all to find these "emails" were either altered or just made up.
The authors of the emails have acknowledged their authenticity. They are defending themselves by saying they were taken out of context. If you read the actual emails, rather than the opinions of their defenders, I think you will come to the conclusion that there was no questionable context involved. They were simply "caught with their pants down".

It is quite right that the other side is probably trying to pull some of the same tricks. That is why scientific discourse must be free and open and that is why it was so dispicable for the global warming advocates to tried to blackball and silence scientists with different opinions.
 
The American Farmers Lobby is a very powerful entity. I have direct interface with ETHANOL and vegetable crops to support it. In fact ethanol from grain is a "zero" net gain fuel......to explain, it takes more btu's to produce a gallon of the fuel than the end product contains in a gallon of ethanol. The largest entity to adopt this folly is the Brazilian Govt., they have mandated ethanol usage. It is relatively clean but an economic disaster except for the farmers of course, now they are selling the system to Colombia.

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' You don't have to have the best of everything to get the best out of what you do have'.
 
It doesn't matter what your nephew said or where he goes to school. The emails have now become a matter of public record. Anyone with the ability to use Google can read them. None of the perpetrators have denied the authenticity of the text.
 
--I agree that they are all liars but this LIAR is the biggest LIAR in history. Now the ruling today that the "health care mandate" is unconstitutional. When will these morons get the message that they cannot mandate FOR the people but the people must mandate for themselves. I resent any govt. that tells me what is BEST for me.

' You don't have to have the best of everything to get the best out of what you do have'.
 
experts dont always get things right
And sometimes we act on their recommendations and our work actually prevents the full effect to happen. And then some people will always say "See, it wasn't that bad after all!"

--

'Well, 'Zooming with your feet' is usually a stupid thing as zoom rings are designed for hands.' (Me, 2006)
'I don't own lenses. I pwn lenses.' (2009)
My Homepage: http://www.JensRoesner.de
 
Gee. It's 75 degrees here today. You logic "it's cold here, it must be cold everywhere" is like sitting in the middle of a pond and declaring that there are no droughts...... Anecdotal evidence is not allowed in a court of law.

--
Austin based portrait photographer and author of the book series, Minimalist
Lighting, and the book Commercial Photographers Handbook. http://www.kirktuck.com
 
For those that have an interest, the actual text of Judge Vinson's ruling in Florida vs. United States Department of Health and Human Services, handed down about an hour ago.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/47905280/vinsonruling1-31-11

Really interesting read. Next step? US Supreme Court. Will be interesting to see which way Justice Kennedy will swing. :)
KarlT

Karl H. Timmerman M.A.J.D.
Image site: http://www.karltimmerman.com
BLOG: http://www.karltimmerman.com/Ramblings/
'The best part of taking the moral highground ...... is the view'.
 
In the early '80's there was a scare concerning the "ozone" hole over the polar icecap.

One of the principals who happened to be on my "board of directors", Ms Dixie Lee Ray, the former head of the Atomic Energy Commission declared the problem a hoax. The theory was that CFC's were destroying the ozone and creating a hole that was going to completely melt the ice cap. We all know it did not happen, in fact the hole mended itself in a relatively short period. We later learned that DuPont's patents for CFC's were expiring in the following year and they had miraculously developed a new FREON (TM) that contained one additional chlorine atom and was not harmful to the atmosphere CF134.....Now, wasn't that convenient when the govt. mandated that all air conditioning systems must use "safe" CFC's....tell me that any govt. isn't corrupt.

To add credence to Dixie's arguments was the fact that Mt. Pinatubo had discharged more CFC's into the atmosphere in 2 days than all of the man made CFC's since they were invented.

At that time I manufactured Organic Rankine Cycle Engines utilizing FREON (TM) as a transfer medium and my cost multiplied by 300%. This was totally unnecessary and only served to increase the profits of the patent holder of CFC's.
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' You don't have to have the best of everything to get the best out of what you do have'.
 
Hey Dave,

McDonalds has introduced a new "Obama Value Meal", you order whatever suits you and guy behind you pays for it. LOL
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' You don't have to have the best of everything to get the best out of what you do have'.
 
A good old off topic diiscussion on GW (AGW, not GWB although I niss those too) owint to an elegant act of trolling!
out there, the next few days ... watching the evening news ... seems the US midwest will have a record setting winter storm. Be careful out there!! Post some pics and share, your life. I'm still trying to understand how "Global Warming" is creating record setting low temps and record snow falls.
Regards
KarlT
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Karl H. Timmerman M.A.J.D.
Image site: http://www.karltimmerman.com
BLOG: http://www.karltimmerman.com/Ramblings/
'The best part of taking the moral highground ...... is the view'.
What record setting cold temperatures?

This Winter in the North American Continent has been average in temperature. Snow is a reflection of moisture. The temperature has been caused by the lack of ice in the North Polar cap. The increased albido means that instead of being reflected back into space, the cold is retained.

The moisture is caused by EL Nino.

Last year Globally was the second warmest since record keeping began back in the 1880's.
Are we sure that record keeping began in 1880 globally ? What was the average temperature in Ouadogfou in 1921?
Yet North America again had an average Winter - We haven't had to many "average" Winters, and since memories are short, people feel the cold.

Dave
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