Why Nikon?....Can anyone explain this to me. PLEASE OMMENT

Hi all.

Tired of reading about the over exposure issues of the Nikon 90 and Nikon D7000 i decided to d simple test to compare my D90 it to my very reliable and old D50.

First of all let me tell you that that i don´t have any trouble getting excellent results from these 2 cameras they may meter wrong but they have the tools for you to make it right.

But what really grind´s my gears is:

The D50 metered about +0,3 EV. This was realtively easy to recover in PP.
Now the D90 consistently over exposes 0.7 to 1 EV. In hi contrast situations.
In oder conditions e it works wonders.

So my question is would you think it would be nice for Nikon to release a Firmware With hight light clipping Protection or with a mettering program similar to that in the the D300?
(i dont think its meter it self but the way it is programed to work.)

Here are 2 fotos as an exemple





Nikon D90 DS to match the D50





PLease comment

Can you try the same photo with ADL.
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http://www.dmalikovski.deviantart.com/gallery

Stay away from spot metering in this situation... if that's what you are using. They both look overexposed in my opinion (the D90 being worse).

Why the difference in shutter speeds? 1/320 vs 1/200.

Hi,

Did allready.

Its a bit better, true but thats not the point. The point is that the D90 is a step back in this cases.





.

Thx for your reply

Matrix in both, Sunlight WB, Aperture Priority and the same lens on both.

Colin Stuart said:

Why the difference in shutter speeds? 1/320 vs 1/200.

Click to expand...

Congrats you've found the issue !

That's what he's trying to find out.

to be honest, I do not believe any camera would overexpose by such a huge margin as your D90 supposedly did. Can you post the original with the EXIF data ?

wlad said:

Can you post the original with the EXIF data ?

Click to expand...

It might help to click on (original) FYI.

If they are different on each, that could EASILY explain the difference.

Roman
--

“There is only you and your camera. The limitations in your photography are in yourself, for what we see is what we are.”
~ Ernst Haas

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Dejan Malikovski said:

Can you try the same photo with ADL.

Click to expand...

I'm afraid hope for a better solution from Nikon is in vain.
ADL does help, but not the way some would expect.

JPG will be just about as overexposed in the highlights with/without ADL, just the shadows will be lifted. But the side-effect of the not-exactly-optimal implementation of ADL is that the NEF is more likely to be recoverable. This is a useful workaround when you don't have the time to set EC. You can remove ADL instant-postprocessing or change its level in CNX2. ViewNX officially does not have ADL setting, but it unoffically it keeps ADL if you don't touch the EC slider and strips it otherwise. 3rd party raw converters do not do ADL pp anyway.

Have you tried center-weighted? Nikon is not forcing you to use matrix.

The D7000 allows you to do an adjustment of the exposure metering for each of the metering modes, (Matrix, Center, Spot) in the menus. Doesn't the D90t have this option to adjust your overall metering as well?

Best regards,
Jon

Even after the problem in my own thread got sorted out and I've understood the dilemma, I'm still baffled to see examples of such gross overexposure and the fact that helpful users such as RomanJohnston, have to ask questions about focus points in order to clear up things (no offence, OP, or Roman, you're just reacting the right way, it is Nikon who is to blame).

Note to Nikon: Neither have you documented Matrix Metering as a spot meter in disguise, nor do people recognize it as one. But it has a rather unpredictable tendency to behave as one due to the emphasis on the active focus point. And since focus point acquisition seems to favour dark parts of the image, the result are numberous 100% legitimate overexposure complaints which are completely incompatible with the DR characteristics of your (or any) digital image sensors. You go great lengths to harmonise your user interface along your model range and years, why then do you play this stupid pro-vs-amateur metering behaviour game? Release a firmware update that fixes this pronto.

Kind regards,
Martin

--
http://www.datzinger.net

Martin Datzinger said:

Even after the problem in my own thread got sorted out and I've understood the dilemma, I'm still baffled to see examples of such gross overexposure and the fact that helpful users such as RomanJohnston, have to ask questions about focus points in order to clear up things (no offence, OP, or Roman, you're just reacting the right way, it is Nikon who is to blame).

Note to Nikon: Neither have you documented Matrix Metering as a spot meter in disguise, nor do people recognize it as one. But it has a rather unpredictable tendency to behave as one due to the emphasis on the active focus point. And since focus point acquisition seems to favour dark parts of the image, the result are numberous 100% legitimate overexposure complaints which are completely incompatible with the DR characteristics of your (or any) digital image sensors. You go great lengths to harmonise your user interface along your model range and years, why then do you play this stupid pro-vs-amateur metering behaviour game? Release a firmware update that fixes this pronto.

Kind regards,
Martin

--
http://www.datzinger.net

Click to expand...

The "fix" is already in the D7000. There is an option in the menus to adjust the metering for Matrix, Center, and Spot independently . Why is this so hard to understand?

Best regards,
Jon

M Jesper said:

wlad said:

Can you post the original with the EXIF data ?

Click to expand...

It might help to click on (original) FYI.

Click to expand...

It might help clicking on (original) before telling others to click on (original).

jonikon said:

The "fix" is already in the D7000. There is an option in the menus to adjust the metering for Matrix, Center, and Spot independently . Why is this so hard to understand?

Click to expand...

Why is it so hard to understand that a constant bias is of no use here? With low-DR scenes, the meter is fine. With high DR, the meter goes for the midtones, blowing the highlights, and I always have to apply some negative EC if I prefer sacrificing the shadows. Some other cameras don't meter like this. This could be made configurable in some parallel universe

I don't own a D7000 but on the D60, D80 and D90 the problem is one of consistency. Matrix metering does not always overexpose the shot. It is only in high dynamic range situations that matrix metering misbehaves. If you set the bias to some other point and leave it that way, you will underexpose shots in shaded areas. It would seem to me that Nikon could be a little more intelligent about their metring and recognize these situations a little better than they do. I don't think any metering system from any manufacturer is ever going to make EV adjustments obsolete. I just wish Nikon could be as smart about it as Olympus. My experience is that their metering requires compensation much less often than Nikon.

Martin Datzinger said:

Even after the problem in my own thread got sorted out and I've understood the dilemma, I'm still baffled to see examples of such gross overexposure and the fact that helpful users such as RomanJohnston, have to ask questions about focus points in order to clear up things (no offence, OP, or Roman, you're just reacting the right way, it is Nikon who is to blame).

Click to expand...

Well if the focus point determines exposure AND you don't have it set to the place that is right to get proper exposure than it ISN'T Nikon fault. Its the users fault.

See, the problem is. people scream if the technology isn't there to give value for the buck. Nikon responds with giving the photographer tools they need to be creative and competitive in the market. Then average Joe user gets frustrated with their P&S because of speed issues and the like and buy an entry level DSLR.

With such a purchase, comes a learning curve as it no longer is a P&S. Learning focus modes, and how the more complicated gear works is part and parcel with the upgrade.

This is why the myth that cameras take better pictures is so important to get rid of. As you buy more advanced equipment to have more options, you have to be aware of those options and use them correctly.

This is not Nikon's fault. The gear works exactly as it is configured. The fact that some don't know how to configure the options is not Nikon's fault. Its the photographers responsibility to know the tool and how to use it.

Martin Datzinger said:

Note to Nikon: Neither have you documented Matrix Metering as a spot meter in disguise, nor do people recognize it as one. But it has a rather unpredictable tendency to behave as one due to the emphasis on the active focus point. And since focus point acquisition seems to favour dark parts of the image, the result are numberous 100% legitimate overexposure complaints which are completely incompatible with the DR characteristics of your (or any) digital image sensors. You go great lengths to harmonise your user interface along your model range and years, why then do you play this stupid pro-vs-amateur metering behaviour game? Release a firmware update that fixes this pronto.

Click to expand...

Where is the slot in the users head to put this upgrade?

Its kinda like the Dog Whisperer. People buy dogs before they know the responsibilities of ownership. Then they blame the dog for their own short sightedness and inability to train themselves and understand their dog.

You're probably not gonna like my response despite the clarity of truth in it. Most people don't accept responsibility in this amazing times where lots of things are programed to do things for us instead of us engaging our brains a bit.

I wouldn't want a robot to fly fish for me. There is value in slowing down and casting a perfect presentation, and reeling in a wonderful trout.

Learn to embrace the craft of photography and learn your tool you purchased.

Not a snobby answer....but one that invites you to a very interesting craft that has to be learned.

Wish you the best no matter how you take it and hope you see it as the advice I intended it to be.

Roman

--

“There is only you and your camera. The limitations in your photography are in yourself, for what we see is what we are.”
~ Ernst Haas

We are officially live!!!!
http://www.commercialfineart.com/
Old Web Site
http://www.pbase.com/romansphotos/

I love these Nikon overexposure threads so I'm just tagging this one ;-)

Roman is right as above AF points will make a difference if we know what they are that might help (or maybe not!)

tell you what - I could produce similarly overexposed picture with a D3X - all it takes is to turn around, lock the exposure of a shadow, turn back and take the shot.

And I am quite certain there are people lurking in these forums, posting manipulated shots just to scare potentional buyers away from certain cameras.

So until I see an original, out of camera picture looking this bad , I do not believe it.
Especially when there's a Adobe Photoshop CS5 tag in the EXIF.