E-620 limitations in low light

florokie65 said:

I...I am wondering if the lackluster low light auto focusing performance may be due to the limitations of the kit lenses 14-42mm and 40-150mm? Would my low light capabilities be improved if I were to purchase the superb Oly 12-60mm lens?

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No, no, no and absolutely no. Niet, non, nein. They don't improve anything. I had a whole saga with the E-620+12-60mm combo in specific light conditions, and I had the lack of wisdom to comment on it in an old thread which was called something like "Now I realize how bad the AF system of the E-620 really is !!!". I was called all sort of names by all sort of people who have never touched a E-620, trying to prove me how wrong I was. Well, i still stand by my opinion - the E-620 is a magnificent camera, which has HUGE focusing problems under SOME types of light. I am on purpose not saying "Under low light" or "Under low contrast" conditions, as it doesn't seem to have a clear pattern. Some times it will lock in what seems to be very difficult conditions, other times it will keep hunting.

Under the specific conditions I was shooting at, the 12-60mm actually performed WORSE than the kit lens, which makes me think it is a software issue more than anything else. At the end, I even wondered if it might be related to my use of Ikea low consumption light bulbs, as that's what I use around the house.

which just goes to illustrate how different all our user experiences are. The E-510 has the most reliable focusing of any camera I've ever used. Certainly not the fastest but I could always get focus, even in low light. The E-30 was much faster to focus but gave too many false positives for me, I'd rather have reliability than speed when it comes to focusing. It definitely seems to be a case of YMMV.

--
Tony
http://the-random-photographer.blogspot.com/

Damn
You have some anger issues no doubt
What is the deal with the attitude?

If you are so good, prove that you are that good. Show us your published stuff...

Otherwise just shut up and hear what other users are complaining about, and if you want to reply, tone it down, else you look like an ....

With a flashgun you can focus with any camera in any environment.

It does not make Olympus anything special.

Is what you mean by "Ikea low consumption" compact flourescent lights (CFL)? I don't think that's the issue as I have CFLs in most of my house but not all rooms and I haven't noticed a difference in focusing with my e620 between CFL, daylight CFL and tungsten lit rooms with equal light intensities.

On the other hand I haven't had much to complain about low light focus with my e620 and the kit lens (haven't had opportunity to use a 12-60). I use center S-AF with lock at half-press down to the EV3-4 range routinely for family gatherings and rarely fail to get a lock.

A. C.

--
I've taken a vow of poverty. To annoy me send money.

acsmith said:

Is what you mean by "Ikea low consumption" compact flourescent lights (CFL)? I don't think that's the issue as I have CFLs in most of my house but not all rooms and I haven't noticed a difference in focusing with my e620 between CFL, daylight CFL and tungsten lit rooms with equal light intensities.

On the other hand I haven't had much to complain about low light focus with my e620 and the kit lens (haven't had opportunity to use a 12-60). I use center S-AF with lock at half-press down to the EV3-4 range routinely for family gatherings and rarely fail to get a lock.

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Yes, CFL's, tubular type. You mentioning "Light intensities" is the key. I started to wonder whether what we humans perceive might be different from what the camera perceives. Maybe some "trick" applied to CFL lamps in order to serve us with a way lower light output without us noticing

In any event, I suspected the lamps as well. It was that bad. And, precisely, I use the term "under certain conditions", for lack of better description. The camera seems to cope very well under certain conditions which seem very difficult (low light, low contrast), then suddenly goes ballistic in a room which is not that dark. And when it does - it does it persistently, no matter the lens, no matter if LV is used or not.

and don't read too much into my use of "light intensity". I meant only similar visual experience and similar EVs. I have 6500K spiral CFLs, 2700K spiral CFLs and tungsten lights in my house and as I say can't really say I've had focusing issues w/ the 14-42 lens until the light gets below to f/3.5, 1/2 sec., ISO 1250 or f/5.6, 1/8 sec., ISO 1250. with any source.

A. C.

--
I've taken a vow of poverty. To annoy me send money.

My Nikons were much better at getting low light/low contrast focus than the Olys I have had.

But I have learned to mostly get around it with the 620 by putting it in AF+MF mode. If I get the focus close with MF and then half press to get the AF, it most often will lock focus in conditions where it would otherwise just rack back and forth past the focus point in AF only mode.

Also, to control noise a bit better in low light, I use custom WB and make sure I don't let the camera underexpose.

The 620 is not a stellar indoor, low light camera but you can do a few things to make it perform better.

--
Stu
http://www.flickr.com/photos/stujoe/
Eee Six Two Zero

.

Stellar ? No it's not stellar, it is pretty slow in low light but enough to get the shots you want. I never had infinite hunting, give ups or false positives that everybody are talking about. Maybe I'm just lucky but my E-620 never gave me any focus problems of any kind.

Now since I bought the E-5, it's a different story, that IS STELLAR in autofocus in any light.

Stujoe said:

My Nikons were much better at getting low light/low contrast focus than the Olys I have had.

But I have learned to mostly get around it with the 620 by putting it in AF+MF mode. If I get the focus close with MF and then half press to get the AF, it most often will lock focus in conditions where it would otherwise just rack back and forth past the focus point in AF only mode.

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This is exactly what I have been doing for over a year in low light/low contrast situations. I recently asked on the micro forum if this method would work on a Pen. I was simply told I was using the MF/S-AF feature improperly backwards. Never mind that it works (at least on the E-620). No out-of-the-box thinking is apparently welcome. Glad to see I'm not the only who uses MF for rough focus and S-AF for fine focus.

Stujoe said:

Also, to control noise a bit better in low light, I use custom WB and make sure I don't let the camera underexpose.

The 620 is not a stellar indoor, low light camera but you can do a few things to make it perform better.

--
Stu
http://www.flickr.com/photos/stujoe/
Eee Six Two Zero

.

Click to expand...

--
http://photography-by-thomas.blogspot.com/

Based on the wide divergence in experience from myself and other users I remain convinced that Oly has QC issues with DSLR's...or to be accurate "had QC issues with DSLR's"...kind of an academic debate isn't it.
--
Leon T

" Photography is a hobby until you lug around a bunch of heavy lenses...then it is work"

The Magical 620 is an excellent camera: If you can't get it to work, you're lazy, and Olympus made a mistake in selling you this wonderful machine !

Stop whining and learn to take on challenges !

Love Vjim

Gidday Leon

Leon T said:

Based on the wide divergence in experience from myself and other users I remain convinced that Oly has QC issues with DSLR's...or to be accurate "had QC issues with DSLR's"...kind of an academic debate isn't it.

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I have always said that when I first got my E-30 I was convinced that there was something wrong with the AF accuracy.

After doing extended experimenting (in my living room, in low light ... ), I worked out that it was not camera error, but my own. I needed to work out how to correctly use a vastly more complex and superior AF system than that in either my E-1 or E-510 (and let's not talk about the AF in my Nikon Coolpix ... ).

I suspect that this 'effect' is behind many of the user complaints about the E-3/620/30 AF systems (and also some lenses ... ). I also note that many people on other fora complain with the same issues when moving from entry level cameras to more advanced models with far more complex AF systems.

I have suggested in the past that the same effect can be seen with a "precision" lens such as the f2/50 macro. Because it is so sharp, and designed as an excellent macro lens as well, it will cause grief if used in a sloppy manner. Normal focus lenses will recover far more rapidly from the user asking the camera and lens to focus on subjects that they are incapable of focusing on than will a lens such as the f2/50 macro - it will rack through its entire focus range and take its time doing it ... This is far more noticeable to the user than the focus errors of 'normal' lenses.

Ditto with occasional false positives from the E-30. It will focus down to a light level of -2 EV
( http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/olympuse30/page3.asp )
which is two stops less than my E-510 at 0 EV
( http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/olympuse510/page2.asp )

The fact that my E-30 will achieve a high speed, precise focus lock at about where my E-510 has given up is terrific. The fact that it will achieve a lock at all at 2 stops less ambient light than this is almost miraculous to me! This is also one stop less light than the Canon 1DsIII AF sensitivity ...
( http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos1dsmarkiii/page2.asp )

So I do not find it surprising, or indeed any kind of problem, that my E-30 will occasionally give a false positive at or near these almost non-existent light levels. I do find it surprising that it will achieve an accurate focus lock about 80~90% of the time in these light levels ...

So, in the light of my own experience with my E-30, I ask the question, is this due to:

• Quality control?

Or

• User error?

YMMV ...

--
Regards, john from Melbourne, Australia.
(see profile for current gear)
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I consider this to be a breach of my copyright.
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d3xmeister said:

illy said:

d3xmeister said:

For you, Nikon guy, I had Nikons and they have very powerful AF lamps., turn that off and you'll see they struggle too in low light. The 18-55mm VR must have been the lamest and worst lens I owned in focusing department. Optically though it was pretty good.

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funny how my D80 without AF assist lamp smokes the E-600 i have in low light AF performance......even with a crappy lens like the 18-70mm
--
Mandolin, haha, nope sorry! That, my friend, is a Banjo ?

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It's funny how all the 18-55mm I had on the D40x and D80 were the slowest focusing lenses I ever had in any light. If they have to do a close focus to infinity you can go eat a pizza and it will finish focussing when you come back. The kit zuikos don't do that. Should I remind you that all the zuikos have manual focus overide ?

I'm able to focus in complete darkness, i repeat: COMPLETE DARKNESS with the E-620, 14-42mm and Metz 58 AF-1 in under 1 second. If that's bad autofocus for you than I guess I have no place on this forums.

Again, use a flashgun with focus assist lamp ON and you-l be able to focus fast and precise with any Olympus DSLR and kit lens. That is the problem, not the lenses and not the body.

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i don't want/need a flash for low light AF, i just use the body that works better in these conditions
--
Mandolin, haha, nope sorry! That, my friend, is a Banjo ?

Hi John,

well I guess the question needs to be asked but I tried various setups with the E-30 focusing and I regularly got false positives, this was my biggest bug-bear with my copy and something I couldn't live with. I'm sure it was not user error, there just didn't seem to be any pattern to it. It happened on all lenses and was completely unpredictable. Maybe I should have sent the camera in for repair but I just lost my patience with it in the end. Shame, because it did focus very quickly, even in low light, I was just never sure what on .
--
Tony
http://the-random-photographer.blogspot.com/

Gidday Tony

papillon_65 said:

Hi John,

well I guess the question needs to be asked but I tried various setups with the E-30 focusing and I regularly got false positives, this was my biggest bug-bear with my copy and something I couldn't live with. I'm sure it was not user error, there just didn't seem to be any pattern to it. It happened on all lenses and was completely unpredictable. Maybe I should have sent the camera in for repair but I just lost my patience with it in the end. Shame, because it did focus very quickly, even in low light, I was just never sure what on .

Click to expand...

My E-510 focuses precisely within the double rectangle when set to the centre focus point. I just confirmed the edges of the focus area, using a speaker cabinet with dark wood surround and plain light speaker cloth. The camera would not focus unless one of the long sides of that double rectangle touched the dark wood sides.

My E-30 is completely different from this. When set to centre point, normal focus area, it will lock on anything from the centre illuminated focus point to around half way to the inscribed metering circle. What I found with my experimenting was the limits of this area, and how to avoid having anything within this area that the camera might 'prefer' to lock onto other than the desired target.

I have not had any real problems since discovering this 'idiosyncrasy' (it took me about two months ... ). Its occasional inability to lock on target in light that I can barely see the target in, is not really a 'problem' for me. As I said before, I am amazed that the camera will ever focus in this kind of light, and not particularly surprised that it occasionally failed ... At the sort of light levels I am talking about, my Gossen Lunasix doesn't get much of a reading!
--
Regards, john from Melbourne, Australia.
(see profile for current gear)
Please do not embed images from my web site without prior permission
I consider this to be a breach of my copyright.
-- -- --

The Camera doth not make the Man (or Woman) ...
Perhaps being kind to cats, dogs & children does ...

Gallery: http://canopuscomputing.com.au/gallery2/main.php



Bird Control Officers on active service.

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Even focusing on a larger object with a flat surface it could give me a false positive indication, I can't really explain it. Maybe it was as you say, it's gone now and I'm happy with the E-510 and it's rudimentary focusing. I found the complexity of the E-30 just got in the way of my shooting and I didn't really need it all. I obviously have a penchant for the more simpler set-up as the 3 DSLR's I now own (E-1, E-510 and Pentax K-x) are all very simple and straightforward to use. I just received a second hand 14-42mm for lightweight use. What a cracking little lens this is and it confirms what I thought about Pentax's kit lens, which is poor in comparison. It's perfect on the 510 alongside the 40-150mm and 9-18mm, an ideal travel setup.

--
Tony
http://the-random-photographer.blogspot.com/

G'day again Tony

papillon_65 said:

Even focusing on a larger object with a flat surface it could give me a false positive indication, I can't really explain it. Maybe it was as you say, it's gone now and I'm happy with the E-510 and it's rudimentary focusing. I found the complexity of the E-30 just got in the way of my shooting and I didn't really need it all.

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I agree. I suspect that it helps with these more complex cameras if one is a tech-head (I have been one of these since I pulled apart my first alarm clock - AND put it back together again, with no bits left over, lol).

papillon_65 said:

I obviously have a penchant for the more simpler set-up as the 3 DSLR's I now own (E-1, E-510 and Pentax K-x) are all very simple and straightforward to use. I just received a second hand 14-42mm for lightweight use. What a cracking little lens this is and it confirms what I thought about Pentax's kit lens, which is poor in comparison. It's perfect on the 510 alongside the 40-150mm and 9-18mm, an ideal travel setup.

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I agree about these lenses also (except the 9~18, which I have never owned). I have an f2.8/25 pancake to round out my E-510 kit. I still take about 25~30% of my photos with this kit. I cannot carry my full E-30 kit very far or for very long due to my health problems. Most days I can carry my E-510 kit all day.

Who says there is no size/weight advantage? My mate's D700 kit weighs about double what my E-30 kit weighs (body, 7~14, 14~54 II, 50~200 I, f2/50, FL-36R, charger, portable HDD and miscellany, in a Lowepro Slingshot AW200 bag). I doubt that I could carry his kit more than about 100m ...

I always say that everyone should choose what suits them, and what suits their style and habits of shooting. I only get snappy when someone tells me that my choices can't possibly suit me, or anyone else ...

--
Regards, john from Melbourne, Australia.
(see profile for current gear)
Please do not embed images from my web site without prior permission
I consider this to be a breach of my copyright.
-- -- --

The Camera doth not make the Man (or Woman) ...
Perhaps being kind to cats, dogs & children does ...

Gallery: http://canopuscomputing.com.au/gallery2/main.php



Bird Control Officers on active service.

Member of UK (and abroad) Photo Safari Group

illy said:

i don't want/need a flash for low light AF, i just use the body that works better in these conditions
--

Click to expand...

Only Nikons have AF lamp on their DSLR, in some instances it is a BIG plus, but there are many times when the lamp just annoys people and you have to turn it off. Another plus is the VR in the lens which helps the AF a lot.

Olympus has this feature (AF asist lamp) in a new XZ-1 compact camera now. So I hope they will put it to now models of EVF cameras or DSLR cameras, if any of course

--
Petr
Zenfolio gallery at http://medsved.net