more megappixels per sq. cm - the benefits for 16mp HS20

If that floats your boat then fine. But you are saying that it is still ambiguous in the second thread. Or at least, that seems to be what you are saying ... I'm not finding your message all that clear either.
I don't see the world as black and white. I am keeping an open mind on all of this. On a forum where most condem extra mp's without any qualification it is refreshing to hear the other side.
Yes, and I linked an article from a few years back that made that point clearly and accurately. My issue was with the test and the laziness of the OP that created it and the OP that linked it into this forum. Neither bothered to explain it at all.
It's all a great waste of time if the main point is that pixel density takes second place to sensor size. The link I provided answered that two camera generations ago ...
So why your aparent indignation? We agree.
The lazy OPs and the fact that some people seem bent on characterizing this an an "open mind" issue when it is a "crappy test" issue ...
Oh I see. You think my comment about someone not having the staying power is not about time and endurance, but a direct reference to perhaps their intelligence. Well, not intended. I don't go out of my way to insult people I don't know. In a world of instant information I suspect many readers will find the 150 plus posts time consuming. You said yourself that you couldn't be bothered reading through them...... and so have others....
Had it looked remotely promising and unique, it might have been worth pursuing. But had the original OP bothered to explain his point (at least, according to what you say it was) up front, I would have instantly realized that he was rehashing the work DXO labs already documented in that article ... poorly as well ...
You seem to feel otherwise so I suggested that you do what the OP is refusing to do and tell me why those images are not garbage. I assumed that you had an opinion of some sort since you disagreed with me ... more than once.
Disagreed with you? Sorry, youv'e lost me. Are you mixing me up with someone else?
"Well speak for yourself."

My apologies ... what is that statement if not disagreement?

--
I am but one opinion in a sea of opinions ... right?
http://kimletkeman.blogspot.com
http://letkeman.net/Photos
 
You seem to feel otherwise so I suggested that you do what the OP is refusing to do and tell me why those images are not garbage. I assumed that you had an opinion of some sort since you disagreed with me ... more than once.
Disagreed with you? Sorry, youv'e lost me. Are you mixing me up with someone else?
"Well speak for yourself."

My apologies ... what is that statement if not disagreement?
Please don't apologise. 'Well speak for yourself' was in response to your comment about wading through too many threads, not the discussion surrounding the validity of the evidence. I deliberately avoided making any comment about the test because I know it's a no-winners discussion.

You have to laugh. Iit looks like some of us(including me) have generated a pile of posts about almost nothing simply because of the tiniest misunderstanding of language nuances. How do they manage at the U.N.?

Look forward to your F550 testing. How long do you expect to wait?

Nick
 
John Sheehy seems very knowledgeable which is a shame since he often uses (inadvertently?) his detailed knowledge to confuse and obfuscate. He also does not accept plain evidence which tends to contradict his beliefs.

He seems to reject the obvious image quality of the F30/30/6500 sensor which in my opinion is still without equal for that sensor size. A recent case in point was the Fuji 6500 following image using ISO 400 no less.



He writes
The Fuji sensor is inefficient (about 50% of current P&S sensors), and has fairly high read noise (2.5 to 3 12-bit ADU, IIRC) by today's standards, but the noise has good character. Most of the "magic" in these 6MP Fuji compacts is purely conversion style; a very aggressive NR which protects high-contrast edges. The results are kind of cartoonish. The girl in the tub, for example, has individual hairs that stick out and are sharp, but here hair looks like molded plastic where the hair is more homogeneous.
His details may be correct but it still remains that the Fuji sensor is demonstrably one of the best. This image is hardly "cartoonish". I have not seen a P&S with more pixels and better IQ.

I posted an Imaging Resources comparison of the Fuji 6500 with the Canon DSLR 500D (which I also have) both at ISO 400. The Canon image did not look better. The posted pictures were about 2 feet wide (on my 17inch display) to which he commented
Yeah, and all cameras look the same with postage-stamp pictures from a mile away. It's a given that for undemanding use, there is a bit of a practical equalization.
He makes a somewhat valid point but with excessive exaggeration.
 
John Sheehy seems very knowledgeable which is a shame since he often uses (inadvertently?) his detailed knowledge to confuse and obfuscate. He also does not accept plain evidence which tends to contradict his beliefs.
Exactly. Google just provided an example (see his discussion with Roger N. Clark, below)

His details may be correct but it still remains that the Fuji sensor is demonstrably one of the best. This image is hardly "cartoonish". I have not seen a P&S with more pixels and better IQ.
Yes, I recalled "plastic" but forgot how often he referred to the F30's images as "cartoonish".

Roger N. Clark (change username to rnclark) - 19 Jul 2008 04:55 GMT
The direct comparison of what? I am getting the sense that most of the
critics here have no viable working model in their heads of what a sensor
is, and what it does, yet they feel obliged to make all kinds of comments
assuming some kind of magic.
Of course you have yet to respond to any of my posts, including
where I point out errors including the equations you use and
the reasons you come up with the erroneous conclusions you do.
And where is your counter-evidence? There is none. There is no evidence
that higher pixel density lowers DR or increases noise.
I already proved you were using incorrectly different equations
for high and low end to come up with the erroneous conclusions.
Every shred of
so-called evidence assumes a 100% pixel view, uses JPEGs, or unequal
conversions (No commercial RAW converter converts different cameras the
same way; Brands that have a history of high RAW noise get extra NR by
default, just like the manufacturer's JPEGs do).
No it does not. It is fundamental physics, which you seem to ignore.

I've also put out what is probably to most complete model of
sensor performance one can find on the net, which counters what
you say. You have no actual model. You incorrectly process images
to make your case. I've pointed that out several times and you
will not even acknowledge it.
Guess you're out of the loop, but there's a big showdown going on at
DPReview right now, because the intelligesia there have challenged Phil
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
engaged in such a discussion, and when asked for proof of his viewpoint,
he became mute. Hopefully, he's doing a lot of thinking about this.
Do you see the irony in your statement. I show you your errors
and you become mute.
Many things that people find clear are actually false, under the hood.
People like simplicity, more than they are interested in truth.
More irony?
There are three layers to this onion. There is the hypothetical blind
consumer who thinks that more MPs are always better in every way. Then
below that there are people who think that more MPsruins images in a
given sensor size.
And your 4th layer seems to think that the more pixel density is better.

It seems most people here realize that there is an optimum pixel
density that trades focal plane resolution with S/N, dynamic range,
and real resolution. That is also what the scientific models
say.

Roger
http://www.photokb.com/Uwe/Forum.aspx/photo-digital/56541/The-Joy-of-Pixel-Density

Despite the photokb.com link, this was originally posted in a photo newsgroup.
 
So a Casio FH25 at ISO 200 RAW, pushed four stops in ACR, looks better than ISO 3200 RAW from a Canon 5Dmark2.

Is this a surprise?

Additionally, something looks way off in the 5D2 image resampling or JPEG encoding, although John Sheehy never did explain exactly what he did.

Bringing us back to KimL's critique.
No it's not a surprise because John Sheehy has been doing these absurd (and hugely flawed) tests for ages.

Very few actually believe you get better high ISO images from pin head sensors v a big DSLR one.

He did the same with an FZ-50 cropped the DSLR image to tiny resolutions and then declared the FZ image as better for low light. Back in the real world..

Let's put it like this you think my F70 is my first choice for low light shooting v my 12mp CMOS or 6mp CCD (heck or even my 10mp CCD) DSLR?

Hmm let me think about that one ;-)
 
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1018&message=37472402

Please read the thread above carefully and understand the principles illustrated clearly in the demonstration - before commenting.
I haven't read the thread carefully, but I believe that I've seen the movie before.

Take two cameras — a compact and a DSLR — and use the same sensor area from both. This means using a much smaller fraction of the DSLR's sensor than of the compact camera's sensor.

Because the compact has a much higher pixel density, you will get a larger file — more pixels — for the compact camera than for the DSLR. Thus you need to scale up the DSLR image or scale down the compact image to get the same-sized image.

As in the previous examples I have seen, the preferred method seems to be upscaling the DSLR — to 330% in this case. This makes the DSLR image have a blocky look that helps it look bad. In the previous example that I saw, downscaling the compact and keeping the DSLR at 100% made the DSLR image look better. It should hardly come as a surprise that massively upscaling a photo produces something that doesn't look great.

This example takes a shot at ISO 200 with the compact and then brightens the image in ACR. Curiously enough, the previous example I saw likewise took the photos at different ISOs. Since this is not the way we can expect people to use these cameras, and since it is not clear that it has no effect on the test, this practice is undesirable.

The moral drawn from this test is that it is sensor area rather than pixel density that "really" matters for image quality. I think it is clear that sensor area is what matters most, but I think there is plenty of evidence, both theoretical and based on image quality comparisons from actual cameras, that excessive pixel density does lead to somewhat worse images at high ISO, all else being equal.

--
john carson
 
. . .

No point in making religious jibes, I'm an athiest. Please put me on your ignore list.
It wasn't intended as a religious jibe. Ansel Adams has disciples and there are also non-religious evangelists, many of them once worked for Apple. This Guy is probably the most famous :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Kawasaki
I remember when he left Apple, I think it was when John Scully from Pepsi took over the running of the company and Steve Jobs left to form Next.

Guy wrote a book about being an evangelist for Apple, which I bought. The book left me thinking that being so over the top about any company or product - even Apple and Mac, was silly.

The best of the early books about Apple was Steve Jobs own book which was called The Journey is the Reward, which in itself was an inspiring title.

I am glad to say that here on the FTF, a general fondness for Fuji cameras is tempered by an equally critical eye. Its a healthier attitude and keeps companies on their toes otherwise they would fall into the trap Toyota did and think they are invincible.

Apple is different though, my local Mac store is swamped with young and old alike, even on quiet days when other stores are empty of customers. Apple is a cultural phenomenon and trancends normal corporate branding. Perhaps this is Mr Kawasaki's legacy after all.
 
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1018&message=37472402

Please read the thread above carefully and understand the principles illustrated clearly in the demonstration - before commenting.
I haven't read the thread carefully, but I believe that I've seen the movie before.

Take two cameras — a compact and a DSLR — and use the same sensor area from both. This means using a much smaller fraction of the DSLR's sensor than of the compact camera's sensor.
What a bizarre test, its like taking a Ferrari and disabling 8 of its 12 cylinders then racing it against a Ford Fiesta and saying the Fiesta is the faster car, all things being equal (ie cylinder count). Its a silly test.
In the previous example that I saw, downscaling the compact and keeping the DSLR at 100% made the DSLR image look better. It should hardly come as a surprise that massively upscaling a photo produces something that doesn't look great.
Either way its an irrational test, the proof is in the eating, what matters is real world, whole sensor results.

If you take an 8 bit computer monitor and compare it to a 16 bit monitor you would observe that the 16 bit monitor produces a better image, you would not say lets reduce the 16 bit monitor to 8 bits then see which image is better, its irrelevant.

Same goes for comparing a HI def screen to a standard 640X480 TV or a 32 bit sound file to a 128 bit sound file.

Just because digital outputs can be rescaled, it does not follow that this equalises them for comparison in a meaningful way.
 
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1018&message=37472402

Please read the thread above carefully and understand the principles illustrated clearly in the demonstration - before commenting.
I haven't read the thread carefully, but I believe that I've seen the movie before.

Take two cameras — a compact and a DSLR — and use the same sensor area from both. This means using a much smaller fraction of the DSLR's sensor than of the compact camera's sensor.
What a bizarre test, its like taking a Ferrari and disabling 8 of its 12 cylinders then racing it against a Ford Fiesta and saying the Fiesta is the faster car, all things being equal (ie cylinder count). Its a silly test.
Welll...not completely. If you want to test the effect of pixel density, holding constant the size of the sensor, then it makes some sense. Comparing the overall image quality of a DSLR and compact is not the point of the test.

On the resizing point...the way DSLRs and compacts produce similar-sized images in reality is through having different lenses, not through a digital resizing process. Thus in practical use, noone is going to achieve similar image sizes from different cameras using the dramatic digital resizing involved in this experiment. Thus the blockyness of the DSLR image is misleading.

It is difficult to do a definitive test of the effect of pixel density on image quality because the effect doesn't appear to be all that great and the effect may be overwhelmed by differences in sensor technology and/or differences in other aspects of the camera's image processing components. Moreover, it is clearly the case that, in principle, more megapixels can give higher resolution, so that must be balanced against any increase in noise.

However, if we may assume that a later model of a camera has no worse technology than an earlier one, then the fact that, in the judgment of many people, later models of several cameras have suffered a loss of image quality when the megapixel count has gone up suggests that increases in pixel density can give worse image quality — at least over a certain range.
--
john carson
 
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1018&message=37472402

Please read the thread above carefully and understand the principles illustrated clearly in the demonstration - before commenting.
I haven't read the thread carefully, but I believe that I've seen the movie before.

Take two cameras — a compact and a DSLR — and use the same sensor area from both. This means using a much smaller fraction of the DSLR's sensor than of the compact camera's sensor.
What a bizarre test, its like taking a Ferrari and disabling 8 of its 12 cylinders then racing it against a Ford Fiesta and saying the Fiesta is the faster car, all things being equal (ie cylinder count). Its a silly test.
Welll...not completely. If you want to test the effect of pixel density, holding constant the size of the sensor, then it makes some sense. Comparing the overall image quality of a DSLR and compact is not the point of the test.

It is difficult to do a definitive test of the effect of pixel density on image quality because the effect doesn't appear to be all that great and the effect may be overwhelmed by differences in sensor technology and/or differences in other aspects of the camera's image processing components. Moreover, it is clearly the case that, in principle, more megapixels can give higher resolution, so that must be balanced against any increase in noise.

However, if we may assume that a later model of a camera has no worse technology than an earlier one, then the fact that, in the judgment of many people, later models of several cameras have suffered a loss of image quality when the megapixel count has gone up suggests that increases in pixel density can give worse image quality — at least over a certain range.
--
john carson
I'm with Wellington100 on this one the test is designed to be irrelevant for field use and to put larger sensors at an unfair disadvantage v the smaller ones. Nobody is going to crop their APS-C sensor to the same size as the tiny one and then declare the smaller sensors are better.

It's not only bizarre but incredibly flawed.

Whilst on APS-C they seem to be able to increase density of sensors 16/18mp whilst still getting good results for high ISO nobody is making 6/8/10mp APS-C CMOS sensors so we can't compare the results with lower density ones it could well be that lower density APS-C sensors deliver even better high ISO results.

No doubts in my mind that the current ramping up to 14mp and more on small sensors has had a negative impact on IQ even low ISO. Increased density is not desirable on these sensors and even on APS-C I doubt many would feel that current 12/14/16mp sensors are leaving them a bit shy on resolution..increases on the current 16/18mp APS-C sensors will yield very small increases in resolution and little advantage to the end user. Bigger files no question but adding more mp to decent resolution already has a far smaller effect than it does to the days we were at 2/3 mp and you might have had a point about not enough resolution. Not now though
 
I'm with Wellington100 on this one the test is designed to be irrelevant for field use and to put larger sensors at an unfair disadvantage v the smaller ones. Nobody is going to crop their APS-C sensor to the same size as the tiny one and then declare the smaller sensors are better.
I don't think the intent is to declare small sensors better. It is to declare that more pixel density may be better (or at least not worse) for a given sized sensor. Thus APS-C DSLRs would be better (or at least not worse) if they were, say, 100 megapixels.
No doubts in my mind that the current ramping up to 14mp and more on small sensors has had a negative impact on IQ even low ISO.
I strongly suspect that you are correct.

--
john carson
 
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1018&message=37472402

Please read the thread above carefully and understand the principles illustrated clearly in the demonstration - before commenting.
I haven't read the thread carefully, but I believe that I've seen the movie before.

Take two cameras — a compact and a DSLR — and use the same sensor area from both. This means using a much smaller fraction of the DSLR's sensor than of the compact camera's sensor.
What a bizarre test, its like taking a Ferrari and disabling 8 of its 12 cylinders then racing it against a Ford Fiesta and saying the Fiesta is the faster car, all things being equal (ie cylinder count). Its a silly test.
Welll...not completely. If you want to test the effect of pixel density, holding constant the size of the sensor, then it makes some sense. Comparing the overall image quality of a DSLR and compact is not the point of the test.

It is difficult to do a definitive test of the effect of pixel density on image quality because the effect doesn't appear to be all that great and the effect may be overwhelmed by differences in sensor technology and/or differences in other aspects of the camera's image processing components. Moreover, it is clearly the case that, in principle, more megapixels can give higher resolution, so that must be balanced against any increase in noise.

However, if we may assume that a later model of a camera has no worse technology than an earlier one, then the fact that, in the judgment of many people, later models of several cameras have suffered a loss of image quality when the megapixel count has gone up suggests that increases in pixel density can give worse image quality — at least over a certain range.
--
john carson
I'm with Wellington100 on this one the test is designed to be irrelevant for field use and to put larger sensors at an unfair disadvantage v the smaller ones. Nobody is going to crop their APS-C sensor to the same size as the tiny one and then declare the smaller sensors are better.

It's not only bizarre but incredibly flawed.

Whilst on APS-C they seem to be able to increase density of sensors 16/18mp whilst still getting good results for high ISO nobody is making 6/8/10mp APS-C CMOS sensors so we can't compare the results with lower density ones it could well be that lower density APS-C sensors deliver even better high ISO results.

No doubts in my mind that the current ramping up to 14mp and more on small sensors has had a negative impact on IQ even low ISO. Increased density is not desirable on these sensors and even on APS-C I doubt many would feel that current 12/14/16mp sensors are leaving them a bit shy on resolution..increases on the current 16/18mp APS-C sensors will yield very small increases in resolution and little advantage to the end user. Bigger files no question but adding more mp to decent resolution already has a far smaller effect than it does to the days we were at 2/3 mp and you might have had a point about not enough resolution. Not now though
There is a very technical chap on the Panasonic forum who calls himself detailman. He is not kidding about his name. A few months ago he participated in a thread about resolution amongst other things and he mentioned an effect of light on a pixel called the airy-disk which i had previously read about and not understood.

In a nutshell though its essentially the circle of light that surrounds each pixel upon exposure. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airy_disk

Resolution is limited by the ability of the disk not to overlap adjacent pixels, once the pixels shrink to the point where the disk does overlap, image resolution actually falls.

Here is a bit of the thread, he also likes the shallow depth of field small sensors allow even at big apertures so he talks about that.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1033&message=36047688

In conclusion its hard to get a clear picture from him as he is so technical about it all however my overall impression is that packing sensors ever more tightly together creates increasing problems and compromises on various fronts and if the lens does not keep up then the resolution will actually fall as light meant for one pixel spills over to the next.
 
I'm with Wellington100 on this one the test is designed to be irrelevant for field use and to put larger sensors at an unfair disadvantage v the smaller ones. Nobody is going to crop their APS-C sensor to the same size as the tiny one and then declare the smaller sensors are better.
I don't think the intent is to declare small sensors better. It is to declare that more pixel density may be better (or at least not worse) for a given sized sensor. Thus APS-C DSLRs would be better (or at least not worse) if they were, say, 100 megapixels.
Yes I see what you are saying, there is a huge difference in intent. But the experiment he uses to prove his point is the problem for me.

Advances in material science, firmware and sensor design are allowing pixels to increase whilst preserving and even enhancing IQ (in bigger sensors0 but there are limits to this that will be imposed by Physics such as limits in optics as sensor resolution overtakes an optics resolving power.

The higher pixel count Nikon D7000 is already showing up limitations to the resolving power of some lenses that the lower pixel count D90 did not, so this problem must be much bigger in smaller and cheaper compact cameras.
No doubts in my mind that the current ramping up to 14mp and more on small sensors has had a negative impact on IQ even low ISO.
I strongly suspect that you are correct.

--
john carson
 
. . .

There is a very technical chap on the Panasonic forum who calls himself detailman. He is not kidding about his name. A few months ago he participated in a thread about resolution amongst other things and he mentioned an effect of light on a pixel called the airy-disk which i had previously read about and not understood.

In a nutshell though its essentially the circle of light that surrounds each pixel upon exposure. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airy_disk

Resolution is limited by the ability of the disk not to overlap adjacent pixels, once the pixels shrink to the point where the disk does overlap, image resolution actually falls.
Not exactly. What happens is that as the pixels become smaller than the Airy Disk, the camera loses the ability to resolve detail as fine as the pixels. The Airy Disk becomes the limiting factor. But make the pixels fine enough and you'll be able to get really great images of Airy Disks! :)

In conclusion its hard to get a clear picture from him as he is so technical about it all however my overall impression is that packing sensors ever more tightly together creates increasing problems and compromises on various fronts and if the lens does not keep up then the resolution will actually fall as light meant for one pixel spills over to the next.
Yes. If the lens doesn't "keep up", it's because the maximum aperture isn't great enough (not that its image quality hasn't kept up), because the smaller the aperture the larger the Airy Disk. The explanation below pretty clearly shows the futility of increasing the number of megapixels with tiny sensor digicams, and note that it only calculates the best case example where the lens is wide open. Decrease the aperture and a sensor with fewer megapixels could have provided just as much detail.
My assumption is simply that when the Airy disk fully covers four sensor pixels (as shown above), you have reached the point where diffraction makes additional pixels useless—no additional detail can be extracted. (This is a more generous criteria than many other folks’ reckoning.)

Let’s consider a typical point & shoot. Although its lens might open to f/2.8 at the widest zoom setting, at a “normal” focal length the maximum aperture is more like f/3.7. At this f/stop, the Airy disk is 5 microns across; it would fully illuminate four pixels of 1.7 micron width.

So how many megapixels could you get, if a single pixel is 1.7 microns?

Take a typical P&S chip size of 5.9 x 4.4 mm (a size better known by the cryptic designation 1/2.3″). At 3470 x 2603 pixels, you’d have a 9 megapixel camera.

Adding more pixels will not capture more detail. Neither will improved chip technology—we’ve hit a fundamental limit of optics.
http://petavoxel.wordpress.com/2010/01/19/diffraction-fraud/
 
I'm with Wellington100 on this one the test is designed to be irrelevant for field use and to put larger sensors at an unfair disadvantage v the smaller ones. Nobody is going to crop their APS-C sensor to the same size as the tiny one and then declare the smaller sensors are better.
I don't think the intent is to declare small sensors better. It is to declare that more pixel density may be better (or at least not worse) for a given sized sensor. Thus APS-C DSLRs would be better (or at least not worse) if they were, say, 100 megapixels.
Yes I see what you are saying, there is a huge difference in intent. But the experiment he uses to prove his point is the problem for me.
If I may join in here, I think we simply have someone who improvised with what he had around him to demonstrate a point. If he owned say a 3mp compact with the latest technology then maybe he would have used that instead.
Advances in material science, firmware and sensor design are allowing pixels to increase whilst preserving and even enhancing IQ (in bigger sensors0 but there are limits to this that will be imposed by Physics such as limits in optics as sensor resolution overtakes an optics resolving power.
May I add that production costs play their part. Competition is driving down prices. I think what we sometimes forget is that there are a range of cutting edge elements that go to make a sensor and then the signal converter and imaging engine. In some cases the weakest link in the chain may have nothing to do with pixel density but everything to do with cost saving on one of the components. In others, there may be a direct correlation. How can we know which is which?

The F80> F300 is a good example where IQ went backwards slightly with the same pixel density - so something else has to account for it.

It's a complex area.

Nick
 
The F80> F300 is a good example where IQ went backwards slightly with the same pixel density - so something else has to account for it.
I have never thought that the IQ went backwards ... in fact, Fuji fixed the F80's over-saturation issue in the F300.

Do you have a link to a test that demonstrates this point?

--
I am but one opinion in a sea of opinions ... right?
http://kimletkeman.blogspot.com
http://letkeman.net/Photos
 
The F80> F300 is a good example where IQ went backwards slightly with the same pixel density - so something else has to account for it.
I have never thought that the IQ went backwards ... in fact, Fuji fixed the F80's over-saturation issue in the F300.

Do you have a link to a test that demonstrates this point?
I think you already know the answer to your question Kim, No, not directly. I think from memory a couple of review sites said so, including DCRP. Ok, let me rewrite this statement as 'allegedly went backwards'. It's all subjective.

I am happy to stand corrected on this as I don't own either cam. I was reflecting the views expressed here by several prominent critics about the poor resolving power of low contrast details of the F300 vs its predessors, especially with landscapes.. I even recall you acknowledging that particular drawback and saying that it didn't bother you.

Are you suggesting that the F80 resolving of low contrast detail is in your experience no better than the F300?

Nick
 
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=33169327

compare s2is 5mp images to 14mp sx30is images. lower noise, better definition is immediately visible (if both are properly exposed). eyes are the best judge. even old eyes.
No doubts in my mind that the current ramping up to 14mp and more on small sensors has had a negative impact on IQ even low ISO.
I strongly suspect that you are correct.

--
john carson
 

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