The Palm of your hand as a grey card

PGrimmett

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I was speaking to a professional photographer who is really good. I was showing off my D100 and was explaining is positives and negatives. Swapping (or lies) stories as usual. I was telling him how you have an option of resetting the white balance with the preset function. I told him I did not have a grey card, but planned on purchasing one from Kodak. He was telling save my money and use the palm of my hand. This was what the grey card was created off of anyway.

Can any one tell me if they have heard this or used this method recently on in the past? I’m interested in hear others opinions on this.

Perry

--
PJG
 
I am taking a fantastic photo course, Understanding Exposure, at http://www.betterphoto.com . In this week's lesson, Bryan Peterson, has us test this ourselves. You can do it for your own palm. Get a gray card to use, put it in the sun and meter for a correct exposure. Now put your hand in the exact same position and note what the meter says: probably 2/3 to 1 stop underexposed. Do the same in the shade and the same thing will happen. It will show as the same amount underexposed. Now you know exactly how your palm can act like a gray card. Just put your palm in the same light you want to take the reading at and adjust your shutter or aperture so the meter shows 2/3 underexposure (or whatever your palm showed before). Then you have the correct exposure :-)

MF
 
I was speaking to a professional photographer who is really good. I
was showing off my D100 and was explaining is positives and
negatives. Swapping (or lies) stories as usual. I was telling him
how you have an option of resetting the white balance with the
preset function. I told him I did not have a grey card, but planned
on purchasing one from Kodak. He was telling save my money and use
the palm of my hand. This was what the grey card was created off of
anyway.

Can any one tell me if they have heard this or used this method
recently on in the past? I’m interested in hear others opinions on
this.

Perry
Meter the inside of your hand and open up one stop. A method used by generations of photographers and still working perfectly.
 
I've seen people doing this at a snowsports event the other day. In fact, I was doing it myself (trying to expose correctly for skin, although being Chinese and photographing white people probably doesn't help)

Did it work? Can't tell, still pretty crappy at this stuff. Gray cards aren't expensive, I bought one anyway, although I don't usually bring it with me.
I was speaking to a professional photographer who is really good. I
was showing off my D100 and was explaining is positives and
negatives. Swapping (or lies) stories as usual. I was telling him
how you have an option of resetting the white balance with the
preset function. I told him I did not have a grey card, but planned
on purchasing one from Kodak. He was telling save my money and use
the palm of my hand. This was what the grey card was created off of
anyway.

Can any one tell me if they have heard this or used this method
recently on in the past? I’m interested in hear others opinions on
this.

Perry

--
PJG
 
I was speaking to a professional photographer who is really good. I
was showing off my D100 and was explaining is positives and
negatives. Swapping (or lies) stories as usual. I was telling him
how you have an option of resetting the white balance with the
preset function. I told him I did not have a grey card, but planned
on purchasing one from Kodak. He was telling save my money and use
the palm of my hand. This was what the grey card was created off of
anyway.

Can any one tell me if they have heard this or used this method
recently on in the past? I’m interested in hear others opinions on
this.

Perry

--
PJG
In the Zone system of exposure metering the palm of youre hand would be Zone VI one stop above a grey card (Zone V). In other words if you spot meter the palm of youre hand and take a picture of a person you would be one stop underexposed for skin tones....you would have to increase exposure by one stop to get correct zone VI exposure...theoretical of course.
Green Grass is Zone V
Boris
http://public.fotki.com/borysd/
 
I was speaking to a professional photographer who is really good. I
was showing off my D100 and was explaining is positives and
negatives. Swapping (or lies) stories as usual. I was telling him
how you have an option of resetting the white balance with the
preset function. I told him I did not have a grey card, but planned
on purchasing one from Kodak. He was telling save my money and use
the palm of my hand. This was what the grey card was created off of
anyway.
Setting exposure from the palm of your hand may well be a tried and tested method (see the other posts in this thread). I'd be surprised if you could set white balance that way though.

-Tony
 
negatives. Swapping (or lies) stories as usual. I was telling him
how you have an option of resetting the white balance with the
preset function. I told him I did not have a grey card, but planned
The other posters have correctly pointed out that with experience you can use the palm of your hand as a gray card surrogate for exposure . That is not the same as using it as a neutral target for white balance , which is what your posting was about.

If you use the palm of your hand to set a pre-set white balance, you will definitely get an undesirable result that combines the ambient light with your skin color.
 
PGrimmett,

The palm of your hand should be fine for setting exposure (after figuring out how much to adjust). However, it's no good for setting a custom white balance. You want a real neutral gray for that. Some even say that the standard Kodak 18% gray card isn't a true neutral gray, since it's intended for metering, not white balance.

Duncan C
------
I was speaking to a professional photographer who is really good. I
was showing off my D100 and was explaining is positives and
negatives. Swapping (or lies) stories as usual. I was telling him
how you have an option of resetting the white balance with the
preset function. I told him I did not have a grey card, but planned
on purchasing one from Kodak. He was telling save my money and use
the palm of my hand. This was what the grey card was created off of
anyway.
Setting exposure from the palm of your hand may well be a tried and
tested method (see the other posts in this thread). I'd be
surprised if you could set white balance that way though.

-Tony
--
http://www.pbase.com/duncanc
 
I was speaking to a professional photographer who is really good. I
was showing off my D100 and was explaining is positives and
negatives. Swapping (or lies) stories as usual. I was telling him
how you have an option of resetting the white balance with the
preset function. I told him I did not have a grey card, but planned
on purchasing one from Kodak. He was telling save my money and use
the palm of my hand. This was what the grey card was created off of
anyway.

Can any one tell me if they have heard this or used this method
recently on in the past? I’m interested in hear others opinions on
this.

Perry

--
PJG
I appreciate everyone’s input on this. You have defiantly sparked some questions. OK I can if I choose to use the palm of my hand to adjust Exposure with so adjustments needed. Not such a good ideal to adjust the white balance with this method. OK. I know the D100 will allow me to reset the White Balance, but what about the Exposure? I do not remember reading anything about this. What is a good method to use in resetting the white balance? A white card? Who makes the best grey cards and white cards?

I have heard the Kodak’s grey card is not truly 18%? Has anyone else heard this? If so what do you use and what methods do you use to get around this?

Thanks,

Perry

--
PJG
 
You might be surprised, Simon, but the skin pigment is the same in all people, no matter their "color". Take it from an MD.
Regards, Tom
Did it work? Can't tell, still pretty crappy at this stuff. Gray
cards aren't expensive, I bought one anyway, although I don't
usually bring it with me.
I was speaking to a professional photographer who is really good. I
was showing off my D100 and was explaining is positives and
negatives. Swapping (or lies) stories as usual. I was telling him
how you have an option of resetting the white balance with the
preset function. I told him I did not have a grey card, but planned
on purchasing one from Kodak. He was telling save my money and use
the palm of my hand. This was what the grey card was created off of
anyway.

Can any one tell me if they have heard this or used this method
recently on in the past? I’m interested in hear others opinions on
this.

Perry

--
PJG
 
Hello PGrimmett,

Kodak's 18% gray card is more accurate/repeatable
than any other piece of equipment you own.

It has no moving parts, not effected by voltage fluctuations,
it does not care about your political ambitions ; )

Kidding aside:
It does not matter EXACTLY what it is.
What matters, is that it's the same every time.
A constant.
 
I'm a little amazed that you say this information came from a "professional photographer". A professional that doesn't know the difference between exposure and white balance? Not good.

I'm not sure what you mean by "reset" the white balance (WB). I will assume you mean "preset". Use any neutral, mono-toned, non-textured, evenly lit surface. A Kodak grey card/white card is ideal if you have one. And they're cheap... under $15. In a pinch you may be able to use concrete, asphalt, a white wall (be warned, however, that most white paint is not really neutral). The process to preset WB is documented well in the manual.

Regarding Kodak card not being 18% grey... Not sure if that is true. I think the confusion may stem from the fact that most cameras (at least Nikon) are calibrated to use 13% grey as middle grey. I think the Kodak card is 18%.

In any event, to preset WB it does not matter what % grey you use. The only requirement is that it be truly neutral.
I appreciate everyone’s input on this. You have defiantly sparked
some questions. OK I can if I choose to use the palm of my hand to
adjust Exposure with so adjustments needed. Not such a good ideal
to adjust the white balance with this method. OK. I know the D100
will allow me to reset the White Balance, but what about the
Exposure? I do not remember reading anything about this. What is a
good method to use in resetting the white balance? A white card?
Who makes the best grey cards and white cards?

I have heard the Kodak’s grey card is not truly 18%? Has anyone
else heard this? If so what do you use and what methods do you use
to get around this?

Thanks,

Perry

--
PJG
 
The guy who sold my the Kodak greycard told me that it was slightly green and that I shoul use the white side for white balance presetting.

Alvaro
 
I am taking a fantastic photo course, Understanding Exposure, at
http://www.betterphoto.com . In this week's lesson, Bryan Peterson, has us
test this ourselves. You can do it for your own palm. Get a gray
card to use, put it in the sun and meter for a correct exposure.
Now put your hand in the exact same position and note what the
meter says: probably 2/3 to 1 stop underexposed. Do the same in the
shade and the same thing will happen. It will show as the same
amount underexposed. Now you know exactly how your palm can act
like a gray card. Just put your palm in the same light you want to
take the reading at and adjust your shutter or aperture so the
meter shows 2/3 underexposure (or whatever your palm showed
before). Then you have the correct exposure :-)

MF
Actually when metering off your palm it should show one stop OVERexposed. Your palm is one stop brigher than 18% grey.

--
Jim Sykes
http://www.motorsportvortex.com
 
Actually metering off your palm should show about one stop "Under" underexposure (numerically higher f/stop) than a gray card, not overexposure. You then open up about a stop. Gray card reading shows f/2.8, palm reading shows f/4, so you open up one stop to equal gray card reading of f/2.8

Like the old saying goes "metering your palm and open up one stop"
Actually when metering off your palm it should show one stop
OVERexposed. Your palm is one stop brigher than 18% grey.

--
Jim Sykes
http://www.motorsportvortex.com
I am taking a fantastic photo course, Understanding Exposure, at
http://www.betterphoto.com . In this week's lesson, Bryan Peterson, has us
test this ourselves. You can do it for your own palm. Get a gray
card to use, put it in the sun and meter for a correct exposure.
Now put your hand in the exact same position and note what the
meter says: probably 2/3 to 1 stop underexposed. Do the same in the
shade and the same thing will happen. It will show as the same
amount underexposed. Now you know exactly how your palm can act
like a gray card. Just put your palm in the same light you want to
take the reading at and adjust your shutter or aperture so the
meter shows 2/3 underexposure (or whatever your palm showed
before). Then you have the correct exposure :-)

MF
--
Tphoto
 
Skin tones (in black and white) are generally suppose to be kept about a stop above 18% grey. When I use to shoot tri-x and TMAX I would spot meter one stop above the face off of some guy standing around oblivious to what I was doing. Perfect exposures nearly every time. Depends on the lighting of course.

You dont want muddy skin tones.

Al
I was speaking to a professional photographer who is really good. I
was showing off my D100 and was explaining is positives and
negatives. Swapping (or lies) stories as usual. I was telling him
how you have an option of resetting the white balance with the
preset function. I told him I did not have a grey card, but planned
on purchasing one from Kodak. He was telling save my money and use
the palm of my hand. This was what the grey card was created off of
anyway.

Can any one tell me if they have heard this or used this method
recently on in the past? I’m interested in hear others opinions on
this.

Perry

--
PJG
 
Like the old saying goes "metering your palm and open up one stop"
Actually when metering off your palm it should show one stop
OVERexposed. Your palm is one stop brigher than 18% grey.

--
Jim Sykes
http://www.motorsportvortex.com
I am taking a fantastic photo course, Understanding Exposure, at
http://www.betterphoto.com . In this week's lesson, Bryan Peterson, has us
test this ourselves. You can do it for your own palm. Get a gray
card to use, put it in the sun and meter for a correct exposure.
Now put your hand in the exact same position and note what the
meter says: probably 2/3 to 1 stop underexposed. Do the same in the
shade and the same thing will happen. It will show as the same
amount underexposed. Now you know exactly how your palm can act
like a gray card. Just put your palm in the same light you want to
take the reading at and adjust your shutter or aperture so the
meter shows 2/3 underexposure (or whatever your palm showed
before). Then you have the correct exposure :-)

MF
--
Tphoto
OK, you're right, a matter of words. When I was thinking of "show" I was thinking of what the meter would show when you have it properly exposed. If the exposure is set properly and you point at your palm the meter will then be reading one stop overexposed.

But you are right, if the light meter shows proper exposure on the hand it is actually underexposed a stop.

Oh well, thinking the same, explaining it different.

--
Jim Sykes
http://www.motorsportvortex.com
 

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