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Phinatic

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Please bear with me as this is another “which camera” thread, but I’m really looking for your input/expertise.

I’ve never owned a DSLR, but I can’t wait to get started. I’m going to take this new hobby seriously, so I don’t plan on being a noob for long.

Starting out, I plan on taking pictures of landscape, buildings, and culture. I’m living in Europe and do quite bit of traveling.

My budget is $2,000 (for now) and would like to get your input on what’s the “best value” based on the equipment/prices below:

Package 1 (Amazon)
D90 – Body Only: $788.00
16 – 85mm f/3.5-5.6G AF-S DX ED: $619.00
70 – 300mm f/4.5-5.6G ED IF AF-S VR: $319.00 (after rebate)
35mm f/1.8G AF-S DX: $199.95
Total: $1922.95

Package 2 (B&H)
D7000 – Body Only: $1199.00
16 – 85mm f/3.5-5.6G AF-S DX ED: $619.95
35mm f/1.8G AF-S DX: $192.95
Total: $2,011.90

Package 3 (42nd St Photo)
D300S – Body Only: $1,349.99
16 – 85mm f/3.5-5.6G AF-S DX ED: $609.00
Total: $1,958.00

I’m leaning toward Package 1 for a couple of reasons.
1) I finally convinced the wife and I only want to go to “the well” once
2) By getting three lenses off the bat, it will allow me to experiment more

However, I am open to Packages 2 and 3, but I probably won’t be able to get the full compliment of lenses as in Package 1 until next Xmas.

Looking forward to you feedback. Thanks,

Joe
 
Phinatic said:
Please bear with me as this is another “which camera” thread, but I’m really looking for your input/expertise.

I’ve never owned a DSLR, but I can’t wait to get started. I’m going to take this new hobby seriously, so I don’t plan on being a noob for long.

Starting out, I plan on taking pictures of landscape, buildings, and culture. I’m living in Europe and do quite bit of traveling.

My budget is $2,000 (for now) and would like to get your input on what’s the “best value” based on the equipment/prices below:

Package 1 (Amazon)
D90 – Body Only: $788.00
16 – 85mm f/3.5-5.6G AF-S DX ED: $619.00
70 – 300mm f/4.5-5.6G ED IF AF-S VR: $319.00 (after rebate)
35mm f/1.8G AF-S DX: $199.95
Total: $1922.95

Package 2 (B&H)
D7000 – Body Only: $1199.00
16 – 85mm f/3.5-5.6G AF-S DX ED: $619.95
35mm f/1.8G AF-S DX: $192.95
Total: $2,011.90

Package 3 (42nd St Photo)
D300S – Body Only: $1,349.99
16 – 85mm f/3.5-5.6G AF-S DX ED: $609.00
Total: $1,958.00

I’m leaning toward Package 1 for a couple of reasons.
1) I finally convinced the wife and I only want to go to “the well” once
2) By getting three lenses off the bat, it will allow me to experiment more

However, I am open to Packages 2 and 3, but I probably won’t be able to get the full compliment of lenses as in Package 1 until next Xmas.

Looking forward to you feedback. Thanks,

Joe
Click to expand...
Always go with the package with the instant rebate(s). You can even make a profit by selling off the new lens if you don't need it. That's what is see people doing here on Craigslist every time Nikon offers these huge rebates when buying a DSLR. Yet another reason to buy a Nikon DSLR!

Best regards,
Jon
 
You've done your homework, that's nice. If you would want to do specifically sports or BIF, I would say D300s, any other case D7000. D90 is nice but clearly overtaken by the D7K. Don't underestimate it all, there's a lot on your plate. It's only one sentence to start off with: understand the relation between ISO/Shutterspeed and Aperture and how this influences Dof....
Some reading and tutorials:
http://www.cambridgeincolor.com

--
------------------------------------------------
http://s259.photobucket.com/albums/hh315/alex_837/
Just trying to get better.....
 
hi phin go for d90 camera kit and a few lenses what i like is have d90 and 108mm -200mmvr and happy with that setup. and you could always look into 18 mm -105mm vr lens to also a kit lens and 18mm is pretty wide for landscape photo
and i have the long length 200mm to bring in the subjects closer also .

the nikon d90 camera seems the way to go and i do nor have any problems with my camera theres many variables you can get nikon d90 18mm-105 mm lens
and 70mm- 300 mm vr lens and a good nikon flash well good luck in your search
hope i helped you later greg
 
Better yet:

D7000 with 18-105 and 70-300VR @1745 at BestBuy after 10% coupon. BestBuy sells the Nikon cheaper than any online store by exactly 10% because they can. Canon and Nikon are not going to mess with BestBuy's hidden MAP violations, they aren't big enough.

Sigma 10-20 $450. The 16-85 will not do superwide, the Sigma will. You really need superwide in Europe!
At that point, you'd be set for life, or five years, whichever comes first :^)

No one will ever know which slow zoom you took a given pic with. The 18-105 is quite good.

You'd be well advised to get the D7000 over the D90, it really is a major notch better in low light and autofocus, not to mention sharper.
 
Of these three packages I'd choose the first one with the D90 as a first DSLR and for someone living in Europe and buying in the US. Get's you the most bang for the buck in a proven & trusted package.

I'd stay away from the D7000 Russian Roulette to avoid shipping the camera back unless I was sure I could get the focus adjusted and any other problems easily taken car of where you live with a US bought camera.

Of course if it was me and not you, I'd get a D5000 with the 50/1.4 ;-)

---
-

D5000 - Nikkor AF-S DX 18-105mm F/3.5-5.6G ED VR - Nikkor AF-S 50mm f/1.4 G - Nikkor AF-S 70-300mm VR - Canon PowerShot S3
 
D7000 Russian roulette, lol! 99% of non-blogging users are firing away, happy as hogs in slop.
Buying old technology if you have the money for the new, always a bad idea.
 
Reilly Diefenbach said:
Better yet:

D7000 with 18-105 and 70-300VR @1745 at BestBuy after 10% coupon. BestBuy sells the Nikon cheaper than any online store by exactly 10% because they can. Canon and Nikon are not going to mess with BestBuy's hidden MAP violations, they aren't big enough.

Sigma 10-20 $450. The 16-85 will not do superwide, the Sigma will. You really need superwide in Europe!
At that point, you'd be set for life, or five years, whichever comes first :^)

No one will ever know which slow zoom you took a given pic with. The 18-105 is quite good.

You'd be well advised to get the D7000 over the D90, it really is a major notch better in low light and autofocus, not to mention sharper.
Click to expand...
Great, thanks Reilly, more homework to do ;> )

Could you tell me where I can find the 10% BestBuy coupon? Thanks,

Joe
 
Reilly Diefenbach said:
D7000 Russian roulette, lol! 99% of non-blogging users are firing away, happy as hogs in slop.
Buying old technology if you have the money for the new, always a bad idea.
Click to expand...
And you are the 1% spending your time on DPR telling everyone from toddler to grandma to buy a D7000, no matter what their needs, preferences and skills are (when you not busy telling other D7000 owners that they don't actually have a problem) :-).
 
Phinatic said:
Please bear with me as this is another “which camera” thread, but I’m really looking for your input/expertise.

I’ve never owned a DSLR, but I can’t wait to get started. I’m going to take this new hobby seriously, so I don’t plan on being a noob for long.

Starting out, I plan on taking pictures of landscape, buildings, and culture. I’m living in Europe and do quite bit of traveling.

My budget is $2,000 (for now) and would like to get your input on what’s the “best value” based on the equipment/prices below:

Package 1 (Amazon)
D90 – Body Only: $788.00
16 – 85mm f/3.5-5.6G AF-S DX ED: $619.00
70 – 300mm f/4.5-5.6G ED IF AF-S VR: $319.00 (after rebate)
35mm f/1.8G AF-S DX: $199.95
Total: $1922.95

Package 2 (B&H)
D7000 – Body Only: $1199.00
16 – 85mm f/3.5-5.6G AF-S DX ED: $619.95
35mm f/1.8G AF-S DX: $192.95
Total: $2,011.90

Package 3 (42nd St Photo)
D300S – Body Only: $1,349.99
16 – 85mm f/3.5-5.6G AF-S DX ED: $609.00
Total: $1,958.00
Click to expand...
Frankly, I've never seen the appeal of the 16-85. It may be plenty sharp, but in the end it's a slow small aperture kit lens that they have stuck a big price tag on. Further, it doesn't really fit with what you appear to be trying to accomplish. I would think a wider lens than 16 would be preferable for all of the wonderful architecture while traveling Europe.

I think I would recommend that you pick eiither the D90 or the D7000 as your budget seems a little tight for the D300s.
Put in the Sigma 10-20 $400 (shooting wide is really fun...you'll see)

Get your 35 1.8 $200 (wide open shooting will make for interesting portraits and allow you to blur out big crowds)

Then fill out the pack with the 55-300, 70-300 or the Tamron 70-300 ($339, $415 and $415 respectively).

If you really want the middle zoom range covered. Drop the 35 1.8 and get the Tamron 17-50 2.8 rather than the 16-85. I think you will be able to do more with the extra stops of aperture. And having the Tamron you will be able to shoot at 35mm 2.8 (while not quite 1.8 it is pretty fast still). Keep your wide angle and if budget requires it go with the cheaper 55-300 rather than the more expensive 70-300 lenses.
Phinatic said:
I’m leaning toward Package 1 for a couple of reasons.
1) I finally convinced the wife and I only want to go to “the well” once
2) By getting three lenses off the bat, it will allow me to experiment more
Click to expand...
Phinatic said:
However, I am open to Packages 2 and 3, but I probably won’t be able to get the full compliment of lenses as in Package 1 until next Xmas.

Looking forward to you feedback. Thanks,

Joe
Click to expand...
--
eddyshoots
 
eddyshoots said:
Phinatic said:
Please bear with me as this is another “which camera” thread, but I’m really looking for your input/expertise.

I’ve never owned a DSLR, but I can’t wait to get started. I’m going to take this new hobby seriously, so I don’t plan on being a noob for long.

Starting out, I plan on taking pictures of landscape, buildings, and culture. I’m living in Europe and do quite bit of traveling.

My budget is $2,000 (for now) and would like to get your input on what’s the “best value” based on the equipment/prices below:

Package 1 (Amazon)
D90 – Body Only: $788.00
16 – 85mm f/3.5-5.6G AF-S DX ED: $619.00
70 – 300mm f/4.5-5.6G ED IF AF-S VR: $319.00 (after rebate)
35mm f/1.8G AF-S DX: $199.95
Total: $1922.95

Package 2 (B&H)
D7000 – Body Only: $1199.00
16 – 85mm f/3.5-5.6G AF-S DX ED: $619.95
35mm f/1.8G AF-S DX: $192.95
Total: $2,011.90

Package 3 (42nd St Photo)
D300S – Body Only: $1,349.99
16 – 85mm f/3.5-5.6G AF-S DX ED: $609.00
Total: $1,958.00
Click to expand...
Frankly, I've never seen the appeal of the 16-85. It may be plenty sharp, but in the end it's a slow small aperture kit lens that they have stuck a big price tag on. Further, it doesn't really fit with what you appear to be trying to accomplish. I would think a wider lens than 16 would be preferable for all of the wonderful architecture while traveling Europe.

I think I would recommend that you pick eiither the D90 or the D7000 as your budget seems a little tight for the D300s.
Put in the Sigma 10-20 $400 (shooting wide is really fun...you'll see)

Get your 35 1.8 $200 (wide open shooting will make for interesting portraits and allow you to blur out big crowds)

Then fill out the pack with the 55-300, 70-300 or the Tamron 70-300 ($339, $415 and $415 respectively).

If you really want the middle zoom range covered. Drop the 35 1.8 and get the Tamron 17-50 2.8 rather than the 16-85. I think you will be able to do more with the extra stops of aperture. And having the Tamron you will be able to shoot at 35mm 2.8 (while not quite 1.8 it is pretty fast still). Keep your wide angle and if budget requires it go with the cheaper 55-300 rather than the more expensive 70-300 lenses.
eddyshoots said:
I’m leaning toward Package 1 for a couple of reasons.
1) I finally convinced the wife and I only want to go to “the well” once
2) By getting three lenses off the bat, it will allow me to experiment more
Click to expand...
eddyshoots said:
However, I am open to Packages 2 and 3, but I probably won’t be able to get the full compliment of lenses as in Package 1 until next Xmas.

Looking forward to you feedback. Thanks,

Joe
Click to expand...
--
eddyshoots
Click to expand...
Eddy,

I was contemplating going with a wider lens than the 16-85, so thanks for the 10-20mm recommendation. Do you think I could get by with just the 10-20mm and 35mm or do you think I'll need the Tamron 17-50 as my "walk around" lens?

I think I can hold off on the zoom because most of our travels are to festivals, museums, and other smaller events. I don't have children playing sports nor do have interest, at least not yet, in wildlife.
 
The D90 is a real bargain, but the D7000 ads a lot of bells and whistles that I think are worth the extra cost, but in the end don't really help you take better pictures. I love that the D7000 meters AI lenses and has dual card slots. Weather seals and better movie capability are less important but nice. I do like the button layout and function of the D7000 much better.

Reilly Diefenbach brings up a good point about wide angle lenses. I have the Sigma 10-20mm 4-5.6 and though it may not be the perfect lens, it gives you uniquely wide pictures that no point and shoot can replicate. At f4-5.6 it's a slow lens, but I don't have any trouble shooting at 1/10th a second at 10mm so shooting in dark interiors is pretty easy (especially with the high ISO performance of both the D90 and the D7000).

I've also got the 35mm f1.8 and I can't imagine living without it. I think it's a real people lens, its shallow DOF makes it really easy to separate the people from the background.

Add the 55-200mm and you're a smidge over $2000 with the D7000. Or, you can go get a nice telephoto zoom with the D90.

So, I'm not making a suggestion as to which body is better, just trying to give you a different perspective so you can figure out what's best for you. I don't see how you could go wrong with either body. Lenses are a whole different bag, you probably won't really know what you want/need until you start shooting, but you can't start shooting until you buy a lens...

But I hate to be the one to point out that you have left out one key (and potentially expensive) component: software. Lightroom is fantastic and really helps to either salvage a problematic image or lets you experiment with more creative ideas. If you have a Mac, you're in luck, Aperture is now only $80 through the new App Store.

--
photos: http://www.jamesfryer.com/photography/
blog: http://www.jamesfryer.com/blog/
 
James7000 said:
The D90 is a real bargain, but the D7000 ads a lot of bells and whistles that I think are worth the extra cost, but in the end don't really help you take better pictures. I love that the D7000 meters AI lenses and has dual card slots. Weather seals and better movie capability are less important but nice. I do like the button layout and function of the D7000 much better.

Reilly Diefenbach brings up a good point about wide angle lenses. I have the Sigma 10-20mm 4-5.6 and though it may not be the perfect lens, it gives you uniquely wide pictures that no point and shoot can replicate. At f4-5.6 it's a slow lens, but I don't have any trouble shooting at 1/10th a second at 10mm so shooting in dark interiors is pretty easy (especially with the high ISO performance of both the D90 and the D7000).

I've also got the 35mm f1.8 and I can't imagine living without it. I think it's a real people lens, its shallow DOF makes it really easy to separate the people from the background.

Add the 55-200mm and you're a smidge over $2000 with the D7000. Or, you can go get a nice telephoto zoom with the D90.

So, I'm not making a suggestion as to which body is better, just trying to give you a different perspective so you can figure out what's best for you. I don't see how you could go wrong with either body. Lenses are a whole different bag, you probably won't really know what you want/need until you start shooting, but you can't start shooting until you buy a lens...

But I hate to be the one to point out that you have left out one key (and potentially expensive) component: software. Lightroom is fantastic and really helps to either salvage a problematic image or lets you experiment with more creative ideas. If you have a Mac, you're in luck, Aperture is now only $80 through the new App Store.

--
photos: http://www.jamesfryer.com/photography/
blog: http://www.jamesfryer.com/blog/
Click to expand...
James,

Thanks for the lens recommendations, as I appreciate you taking the time to explain things. Picking lenses has been the most difficult part for me, actually, it's been overwhelming. But this is where you fine folks come in, to keep me afloat until I begin treading water on my own.

As for the post processing stuff, I have set aside $200. I was looking at Photoshop Elements 9, which I can get for $69.00 at amazon after the mail-in rebate. But I do have a MAC, so if Aperture would be a better fit, I'd rather go that route.
 
Phinatic said:
Eddy,

I was contemplating going with a wider lens than the 16-85, so thanks for the 10-20mm recommendation. Do you think I could get by with just the 10-20mm and 35mm or do you think I'll need the Tamron 17-50 as my "walk around" lens?

I think I can hold off on the zoom because most of our travels are to festivals, museums, and other smaller events. I don't have children playing sports nor do have interest, at least not yet, in wildlife.
Click to expand...
Really only you will be able to determine if you can 'get by' with just those two lenses. I know I wouldn't want to, yet there are others on this board who would get by with just the 35. How about this as a compromise? Get the wide and the 35mm but add in the 50 1.8 or 85 1.8. Shouldn't be a budget buster but should give you a little bit of telephoto capability. If you can't swing the 85 you should be able to find the 50 1.8 for about a $100. Who knows?, maybe you'll end up being a prime lens shooter.

--
eddyshoots
 
Phinatic said:
Please bear with me as this is another “which camera” thread, but I’m really looking for your input/expertise.

I’ve never owned a DSLR, but I can’t wait to get started. I’m going to take this new hobby seriously, so I don’t plan on being a noob for long.

Starting out, I plan on taking pictures of landscape, buildings, and culture. I’m living in Europe and do quite bit of traveling.

My budget is $2,000 (for now) and would like to get your input on what’s the “best value” based on the equipment/prices below:

Package 1 (Amazon)
D90 – Body Only: $788.00
16 – 85mm f/3.5-5.6G AF-S DX ED: $619.00
70 – 300mm f/4.5-5.6G ED IF AF-S VR: $319.00 (after rebate)
35mm f/1.8G AF-S DX: $199.95
Total: $1922.95

Package 2 (B&H)
D7000 – Body Only: $1199.00
16 – 85mm f/3.5-5.6G AF-S DX ED: $619.95
35mm f/1.8G AF-S DX: $192.95
Total: $2,011.90

Package 3 (42nd St Photo)
D300S – Body Only: $1,349.99
16 – 85mm f/3.5-5.6G AF-S DX ED: $609.00
Total: $1,958.00

I’m leaning toward Package 1 for a couple of reasons.
1) I finally convinced the wife and I only want to go to “the well” once
2) By getting three lenses off the bat, it will allow me to experiment more

However, I am open to Packages 2 and 3, but I probably won’t be able to get the full compliment of lenses as in Package 1 until next Xmas.

Looking forward to you feedback. Thanks,

Joe
Click to expand...
For $2000, you can easily get the D7000 (which is an upgrade on the D90) and a very nice lens package. Personally, I don't think the 16-85mm is worth the premium the charge for what is a relatively slow lens. I would get the 16-55 or 16-105mm which are cheaper and get the 35mm lens and pocket the difference. Alternatively, I would get the 18-200mm alone which would set you back 1800 at Adorama.

The D90 is an old camera. In the digital age, don't pay for "new" on old technology. If I got a good deal on a used model, I might consider it.
 
debruyne said:
You've done your homework, that's nice. If you would want to do specifically sports or BIF, I would say D300s, any other case D7000. D90 is nice but clearly overtaken by the D7K. Don't underestimate it all, there's a lot on your plate. It's only one sentence to start off with: understand the relation between ISO/Shutterspeed and Aperture and how this influences Dof....
Some reading and tutorials:
http://www.cambridgeincolor.com

--
------------------------------------------------
http://s259.photobucket.com/albums/hh315/alex_837/
Just trying to get better.....
Click to expand...
--
James
 
Phinatic said:
As for the post processing stuff, I have set aside $200. I was looking at Photoshop Elements 9, which I can get for $69.00 at amazon after the mail-in rebate. But I do have a MAC, so if Aperture would be a better fit, I'd rather go that route.
Click to expand...
I don't know enough about either Elements of Aperture to give you any useful insight, but I understand that Aperture is supposed to be the equal of Lightroom and has just dropped from $200 to $80. It seems like quite a bargain.

--
photos: http://www.jamesfryer.com/photography/
blog: http://www.jamesfryer.com/blog/
 
Ask for it at any Post Office, it's called a "moving packet."
 
All of the camera/lens combos you've listed should be a great starter kit for an ambitious rookie. I started out last summer with a D90 and 18-105mm lens as my first SLR and have loved it.

The point I wish to add though, is that the first lens I added to my equipment was a tripod! I greatly underestimated the value of a good tripod when I got started, but have a greater appreciation for them now. Software you can acquire later and still use with the pictures you've taken, but you'll never be able to go back in time and place a tripod under your camera for those shots.

Before this thread flames into another round of tripod wars, a lot of folks, myself included, feel that this article by Thom Hogan makes a great case for spending more than you otherwise would for your first tripod ( http://www.bythom.com/support.htm ). Some, unlike me, come away with the conclusion that you must spend $1,000 of your budget for a tripod. For my purposes, an aluminum Manfrotto 055XPROB tripod legs with a solid Vanguard SBH-250 ball head from Amazon works quite well and will only use around $250 of your budget. If your height allows, shorter tripod legs will even save you a bit more cash.

For shooting panoramic landscapes and the interior of buildings, it may be worth considering sacrificing one or two of your proposed lenses and acquiring a tripod instead to make more shots possible.
 
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