Fuji Marketing should be ashamed

  • Thread starter Thread starter rattymouse
  • Start date Start date
And wait . . . and wait . . . and wait. Not the 30 minute operation you implied.
No, I said that it was 30 minutes of my time to start the process. I don't have to sit through the entire OS install or the backup; I'm not going to sit there and watch a few terabytes restore. I'll go out to a mall, a restaurant, for a ride on my motorcycle or bicycle, etc. while it restores.
Your "Yes, they could." assumes too much as well. The vast majority of Mac users don't own backup drives either, but they could buy them.
I don't know where you get that information about backup drive ownership, especially given the popularity of external USB hard drives at consumer stores like Best Buy, Radio Shack, and even Walmart. Is there some kind of survey that shows that?

The difference is that a Mac user would simply plug the newly-purchased drive in and a dialog box would ask if he/she wanted it used for Time Machine. Click "Yes" and that's it. They have a backup that updates every hour when the drive is connected. Transparently with no user intervention.
You're still mistaken about Windows PC users not being able to similarly restore in 30 minutes or so.
Every time that I've had to restore from backups on a Windows PC, whether it was Acronis (the best) or some other package, I would invariably find that things were broken; settings were lost, files deleted long ago reappeared (because incremental backups didn't track file deletions), and programs that had been registered no longer were. Plus the backups would invariably take longer as you would need to restore from a full backup and then from each incremental backup. Time Machine has a snapshot of the Mac file system at a given time. You restore from that and you get everything.
Even longer if the Mac is an iMac and needs to be sent back to Apple to get the internal drive replaced.
First off, you don't send anything back to Apple. You go to an Apple store and hand it to them for repair.

Secondly, PC users don't replace their own hard drives either. That's why things like "The Geek Squad" can prey on ignorant consumers.

Thirdly, that's one reason why I would not own an iMac. Their lack of expansion is another.

Of course, if I did have an iMac, I'd still do the drive replacement myself. There are countless illustrated how-to guides for doing just that.
 
Resembles the machines used for playing Wumpus. We also used to print out these long "posters" of Peanuts characters (Charlie Brown, Snoopy...) from Charles Schulz' comic strip in school and at the Lawrence Hall of Science in the UC Berkeley complex.
 
fmaxwell
It doesn't take an "enormous brain" to set up a RAID 5 system.
I see you admit that ... :-D
But even a tiny brain can buy a pre-built one. But the pre-built NAS you linked to costs three times what I spent for the same 6TB of RAID 5 storage -- and it's slower because of being a NAS rather than storage attached via eSATA to a local RAID card.
its true that it is slower. The benefits out weigh speed in most cases. First of all how fast do you need it to be? after all it is a backup and you do not have to sit and wait for it ... being a NAS it can back up multiple pc's then it can back itself up too, to another NAS or a cheap USB drive. These are cheap enough that I use one in my home after all it costs less than a pc. When you build things yourself you have no support ... oh I forgot your enormous gourd needs no support but others do if not only for the comfort during a crash. Don't forget the other things a NAS can do like be a file server with security..

--
JB
I am not a photographer, I’m just a guy that takes pictures.
http://www.buckshot.BuckshotsPhotos.photoshare.co.nz

http://www.fujimugs.com/mugshots/show_member.php?country=&act=&hasmug=&challenge=&cat=&sortby=&sortdir=&thumb=&srch=&member=1341
 
It doesn't take an "enormous brain" to set up a RAID 5 system.
I see you admit that ... :-D
At this point, it's basically common sense.
But even a tiny brain can buy a pre-built one. But the pre-built NAS you linked to costs three times what I spent for the same 6TB of RAID 5 storage -- and it's slower because of being a NAS rather than storage attached via eSATA to a local RAID card.
its true that it is slower. The benefits out weigh speed in most cases. First of all how fast do you need it to be?
Not very fast when backing up and damned fast when restoring.
When you build things yourself you have no support ...
Highpoint supports their RAID controllers. The rest is just a box, power supply, and cables, so there's not much to support there.
Don't forget the other things a NAS can do like be a file server with security..
True. I host several domains at home from a dual-core Atom server I built, so I already have an FTP server, web server, mail server, shared storage, etc. But, that's because of my massive brain power that I was able to to that. Mere mortals should never attempt such feats. ;) Plus, having been sadly disappointed with a slow, buggy D-Link NAS, I opted for the eSATA RAID.

{Side note: It's an Atom because I wanted low-power and quiet, so I equipped it with two slow laptop drives running in a mirrored configuration. I removed the optical drive cage to make room for two large passive heatsinks for the CPU and motherboard chipset, removing those powered fans. I replaced the rear fan for a quieter one. Total draw is 27W and it is almost silent}
 
... and I promise I will quit even though its fun.
No need. I'm amused.
what data is this "observation" based on?
Your postings.
you on the other hand have demonstrated that you are a pompous buttocks so it’s a proven fact
How dare I list my qualifications and experience to discuss a topic?! The nerve! It probably ruined your whole "you're a newbie" line of insults you were preparing.
you can not be an engineer... you assume too much
Being an engineer, I try to anticipate rather than waiting until something goes wrong.
 
Resembles the machines used for playing Wumpus. We also used to print out these long "posters" of Peanuts characters (Charlie Brown, Snoopy...) from Charles Schulz' comic strip in school and at the Lawrence Hall of Science in the UC Berkeley complex.
Yep, I played Hunt The Wumpus too. I even had an old tape cassette of it written in a non-Microsoft Basic dialect, but it was too much trouble to load, both the game and the Basic interpreter. I also printed out my share of those "posters", but don't recall if I had to submit a JCL card deck or if I could do it interactively from a terminal. This was at one of NYC's City University branches, connected to their multiple Amdahl/IBM 370/158 (or maybe they were 370/168s) computer system. The local school had several computers, the largest of which was IBM's "little" 360 Model 20. Powerful I/O channels, but IIRC, it had about the same CPU power as an Intel 8080.
The slowest System/360 models announced in 1964 ranged in speed from 0.0018 to 0.034 MIPS,[1] the fastest System/360 models were approximately 50 times as fast[2] with 8 kB and up to 8 MB of internal main memory,[2] though the latter was unusual, and up to 8 megabytes of slower Large Core Storage (LCS). A large system might have 256 kB of main storage.
The chief architect of the S/360 was Gene Amdahl, and the project was managed by Fred Brooks, responsible to Chairman Thomas J. Watson Jr.
And most of us techno-nerds read Brook's The Mythical Man Month.

The cheapest model was the S/360-20 with as little as 4 K of core memory, eight 16-bit registers instead of the sixteen 32-bit registers of real 360s, and an instruction set that was a subset of that used by the rest of the range. (The Model 20 was suited for smaller businesses — yet it had the IBM name and salesforce.)
The System/360 introduced a number of industry standards to the marketplace, such as:
  • The 8-bit byte (against financial pressure during development to reduce the byte to 4 or 6 bits), rather than adopting the 7030 concept of accessing bytes of variable size at arbitrary bit addresses.
  • Byte-addressable memory (as opposed to bit-addressable or word-addressable memory)
  • 32-bit words
  • . . .
  • The EBCDIC character set
  • Nine track magnetic tape
In 1966, the first 2314s shipped. This device had up to eight usable disk drives with an integral control unit; there were nine drives, but one had to be reserved as a spare. Each drive used a removable 2316 disk pack with a capacity of nearly 28 MB. The disk packs for the 2311 and 2314 were physically large by today's standards — e.g., the 1316 disk pack was about 14 in (36 cm) in diameter and had six platters stacked on a central spindle.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_System/360


Our school's 360-20 used that 8 drive 2314. Huge, and a couple of its drives occasionally leaked oil. :)
 
What do you say about nikon which used FUJI sensors initially? They learnt everything about sensors from Fuji and then dumped them.. that you call as 'business dynamics'..

a little red ring will not do any damage.. 10% of people who remember canon instantly when they spot red ring will learn it is not; Remaining 90% won't know it is canon anyways
--
out of focus
 
. . .

True. I host several domains at home from a dual-core Atom server I built, so I already have an FTP server, web server, mail server, shared storage, etc. But, that's because of my massive brain power that I was able to to that. Mere mortals should never attempt such feats. ;)
Quite right, so it's iMacs for them and no soup for you!
 
fmaxwell
It doesn't take an "enormous brain" to set up a RAID 5 system.
I see you admit that ... :-D
At this point, it's basically common sense.
not really, most folks don't even know what RAID is let alone set it up.
But even a tiny brain can buy a pre-built one. But the pre-built NAS you linked to costs three times what I spent for the same 6TB of RAID 5 storage -- and it's slower because of being a NAS rather than storage attached via eSATA to a local RAID card.
its true that it is slower. The benefits out weigh speed in most cases. First of all how fast do you need it to be?
Not very fast when backing up and damned fast when restoring.
ok ... stay out for coffee a little longer, I read you don't wait around anyway.
When you build things yourself you have no support ...
Highpoint supports their RAID controllers. The rest is just a box, power supply, and cables, so there's not much to support there.
as if they will help you do a bare bones install .... ha! please
Don't forget the other things a NAS can do like be a file server with security..
True. I host several domains at home from a dual-core Atom server I built, so I already have an FTP server, web server, mail server, shared storage, etc. But, that's because of my massive brain power that I was able to to that. Mere mortals should never attempt such feats. ;) Plus, having been sadly disappointed with a slow, buggy D-Link NAS, I opted for the eSATA RAID.

{Side note: It's an Atom because I wanted low-power and quiet, so I equipped it with two slow laptop drives running in a mirrored configuration. I removed the optical drive cage to make room for two large passive heatsinks for the CPU and motherboard chipset, removing those powered fans. I replaced the rear fan for a quieter one. Total draw is 27W and it is almost silent}
You are hosting several domains on "two slow laptop drives running in a mirrored configuration" ... ok

--
JB
I am not a photographer, I’m just a guy that takes pictures.
http://www.buckshot.BuckshotsPhotos.photoshare.co.nz

http://www.fujimugs.com/mugshots/show_member.php?country=&act=&hasmug=&challenge=&cat=&sortby=&sortdir=&thumb=&srch=&member=1341
 
And wait . . . and wait . . . and wait. Not the 30 minute operation you implied.
No, I said that it was 30 minutes of my time to start the process. I don't have to sit through the entire OS install or the backup; I'm not going to sit there and watch a few terabytes restore. I'll go out to a mall, a restaurant, for a ride on my motorcycle or bicycle, etc. while it restores.
Exactly, and I immediately noticed that sly bit of weasel-wording that glossed over the total restore time. If you ever tire of being an engineer, you'd do well in marketing.

Your "Yes, they could." assumes too much as well. The vast majority of Mac users don't own backup drives either, but they could buy them.
I don't know where you get that information about backup drive ownership, especially given the popularity of external USB hard drives at consumer stores like Best Buy, Radio Shack, and even Walmart. Is there some kind of survey that shows that?
Yes, and it's far more reliable than the source you used to make the claim in your statement that what you can do (with only a paltry 30 minutes of your time) can't happen with Windows PCs.
My Mac's hard drive can fail and I can be up and running, with all programs and settings restored to the new drive with a total investment in my time of maybe 30 minutes. That just doesn't happen on Windows PCs.
And if you don't care about going into marketing, perhaps a politician's press spokesman would be more to your liking. You'd be able to 'spin' with the best of them.

Every time that I've had to restore from backups on a Windows PC, whether it was Acronis (the best) or some other package, I would invariably find that things were broken; settings were lost, files deleted long ago reappeared (because incremental backups didn't track file deletions), and programs that had been registered no longer were.
My PC backups do track file deletions. That yours didn't is your problem, not mine.

Plus the backups would invariably take longer as you would need to restore from a full backup and then from each incremental backup. Time Machine has a snapshot of the Mac file system at a given time. You restore from that and you get everything.
You mean that the restores would invariably take longer. But that's irrelevant. I'm not disputing that Time Machine isn't an elegant solution for some or many users, but that your claim that any Mac user would be able to do a full restore with only an expenditure of 30 minutes of their time. Since men, women and chimps have done it, they could also orbit the earth. Not very likely for most people though, even though they could .

Even longer if the Mac is an iMac and needs to be sent back to Apple to get the internal drive replaced.
First off, you don't send anything back to Apple. You go to an Apple store and hand it to them for repair.
Even if you don't live remotely near any Apple store? It would take me much longer to get to Apple's NYC store than 30 minutes and I live in NYC. What's the turn around time? How many days is it? If you can get faster service by paying additional for it, how much would it cost?

Secondly, PC users don't replace their own hard drives either. That's why things like "The Geek Squad" can prey on ignorant consumers.
Now it's getting absurd. Best Buy and stores like it sell hundreds of thousands if not millions of bare hard drives. Who do you think buys them? You have a distressing tendency to imply that a tiny subset of users is equivalent to most users. Between very experienced, technically savvy users and Geek Squad prey lies the vast majority of computer users, and you don't need a survey to understand this.

Of course, if I did have an iMac, I'd still do the drive replacement myself. There are countless illustrated how-to guides for doing just that.
You could. I could. But most iMac owners wouldn't or couldn't. Apple doesn't target/market their iMacs for people that relish delving into their device's innards. You could also easily replace an iPod's non-replaceable battery, but most iPod owners would send their iPods back to Apple, as Steve Job's once said they should. This was after he said that when the battery dies, the iPod is dead and should be replaced with another new iPod. When it suits your arguments, you're remarkably naive about the relation between most Apple products and the majority of people that buy them.
 
The chief architect of the S/360 was Gene Amdahl, and the project was managed by Fred Brooks, responsible to Chairman Thomas J. Watson Jr.
And most of us techno-nerds read Brook's The Mythical Man Month.
Hey, thanks for that...I had never heard of this book. Learning a bit more about it just now also led me to someone named Gerald M. Weinberg who has written some interesting books. I'm going to look for these at the used bookstores in Berkeley or the "liberry."

I actually like this stuff, though my interest in this general area has leaned toward security like The Cuckoo's Egg. Growing up in the shadow of the hills where LBL is...it was all the more interesting.
Our school's 360-20 used that 8 drive 2314. Huge, and a couple of its drives occasionally leaked oil. :)
Wow...
 
Bill
Even if you don't live remotely near any Apple store? It would take me much longer to get to Apple's NYC store than 30 minutes and I live in NYC. What's the turn around time? How many days is it? If you can get faster service by paying additional for it, how much would it cost?
I recently got an e-mail from my NAS that told me I had a bad drive. It is under warrantee so I called and got two options. Mail them the drive at my expense and when they get it they will mail a replacement (slow boat) or for $25.00 they would overnight me one with a return tag in it ....

--
JB
I am not a photographer, I’m just a guy that takes pictures.
http://www.buckshot.BuckshotsPhotos.photoshare.co.nz

http://www.fujimugs.com/mugshots/show_member.php?country=&act=&hasmug=&challenge=&cat=&sortby=&sortdir=&thumb=&srch=&member=1341
 
fmaxwell
... and I promise I will quit even though its fun.
No need. I'm amused.
Good ...
what data is this "observation" based on?
Your postings.
That is a small amount of data to make such an "observation" a good engineer does not assume anything.
Being an engineer, I try to anticipate rather than waiting until something goes wrong.
You failed to anticipate how you would end up looking like a pompous fanboy and have it written for folks to read for as long as its hosted.

--
JB
I am not a photographer, I’m just a guy that takes pictures.
http://www.buckshot.BuckshotsPhotos.photoshare.co.nz

http://www.fujimugs.com/mugshots/show_member.php?country=&act=&hasmug=&challenge=&cat=&sortby=&sortdir=&thumb=&srch=&member=1341
 
Your postings.
That is a small amount of data to make such an "observation" a good engineer does not assume anything.
Sometimes the strength of the data is such that you don't need a lot.
You failed to anticipate how you would end up looking like a pompous fanboy and have it written for folks to read for as long as its hosted.
I look like an intelligent, informed, experienced engineer who is talking about something he knows well. You look like some buffoon badmouthing a system that he has no real experience with. That's the difference between us: I've used PCs extensively, both as a user and a software developer, and now have a couple of years of Mac experience, so I'm writing from experience while you're just a Windows fanboy.
 
. . .

I recently got an e-mail from my NAS that told me I had a bad drive. It is under warrantee so I called and got two options. Mail them the drive at my expense and when they get it they will mail a replacement (slow boat) or for $25.00 they would overnight me one with a return tag in it ....
Nice. I'll probably upgrade to a NAS later this year or early next year, but only after their USB2 ports are upgraded to USB3. Having both USB3 and eSATA is the way to go. I was tempted by one of Sony's laptops on display in B&H last month that had both of those ports. Actually, it was probably USB3 and ExpressCard, but that's equivalent for me since I already have a couple of eSATA ExpressCards.
 
not really, most folks don't even know what RAID is let alone set it up.
Mirrored and striped RAID is built into OS X. You just tell it which drives to use and you have a RAID, striped or mirrored, using the standard controller. RAID 5, 5+1, 6, etc. requires a dedicated controller, but It's not rocket science.
But even a tiny brain can buy a pre-built one. But the pre-built NAS you linked to costs three times what I spent for the same 6TB of RAID 5 storage -- and it's slower because of being a NAS rather than storage attached via eSATA to a local RAID card.
Highpoint supports their RAID controllers. The rest is just a box, power supply, and cables, so there's not much to support there.
as if they will help you do a bare bones install .... ha! please
Yes, they will. Do you really think that a company that sells RAID controllers will refuse to support anyone who attaches disks to the controllers? LOL!!!' "I'm sorry sir, but if you are actually attempting to use our RAID controller to implement RAID, we won't provide technical support." Yeah, that's quite some business model.
You are hosting several domains on "two slow laptop drives running in a mirrored configuration" ... ok
Yes, with no problems whatsoever. Two web sites for small businesses and one personal domain, an FTP server, and a mail server that serves all three domains. I'm not hosting Google, Yahoo!, and Amazon, for chrissakes.
 
So you discovered that Time Machine is far more powerful, capable, and integrated than Acronis or any other Windows backup. Man up and admit it instead of doing some ha-ha posting. As tech site Ars Technica
wrote:

Time Machine is the best new feature in Leopard, perhaps the best feature ever added to Mac OS X. Put simply, Time Machine is a backup and recovery system that people will actually use.
 

Keyboard shortcuts

Back
Top