Handheld Light Meter and Landscape Photography

I do not own a handheld light meter. I would like to know if a handheld light meter helps landscape photography. The subjects are far away and I cannot put a handheld light meter beside the subjects to meter the incident light. Will a handheld light meter function in the same way as the metering system inside my D300 in this case? Will both have to meter the reflected light in this case?

If during landscape photography, the handheld light meter meters reflected light instead of incident light, should I trust the D300 metering system instead of the handheld light meter?

Some articles on the Internet suggest D300 assumes the subject 12-13% grey instead of 18% grey. I have carried out a test which appears to attest to this. I dial into spot metering mode, point the D300 to a Kodak grey card and take a picture. I find most information not in the middle of the histogram. Information is concentrated on the right handside instead. I then add -0.7EV exposure compensation and repeat the test and I find information concentrated at the middle of the histogram. When a handheld light meter works on reflected light, does it assume 18% grey? Do I need to translate the handheld light meter's reading?

Pleae help.

Regards

Your camera is the light meter. Wysiwyg ( what you see is what you get ). I assume you have an LCD screen in back of your camera. I'ts like a Polaroid ( remember those ) test shot. If you want to be "very" sure of a once in a lifetime shot, do a 3 shot bracket 1 f/stop apart. Light meters are now a waste of money except for studio work and some portraiture.

Yes, in the days when you had to pay for processing every time you pushed the shutter release (film), it was more critical to get the exposure right with as few shots as possible. Now with cheap storage and advanced cameras you can bracket and fire away when you have a doubt. And, shoot specifically for HDR when you want.
--
JohnE
Some of my work is shown here:
http://www.biltmorephoto.com

Weegee said:

Your camera is the light meter. Wysiwyg ( what you see is what you get ). I assume you have an LCD screen in back of your camera. I'ts like a Polaroid ( remember those ) test shot. If you want to be "very" sure of a once in a lifetime shot, do a 3 shot bracket 1 f/stop apart. Light meters are now a waste of money except for studio work and some portraiture.

Click to expand...

I'd rely on the histogram rather than the LCD display, which is not really wysigyg. If you're shooting sRGB jpeg then it's not bad, but I'd still check the histogram.

(Before someone points this out: the histogram is based on the jpeg preview, even when you're shooting raw, so it's not totally accurate either, and there's more exposure headroom than the histogram indicates. But it's probably as good a guide as a lightmeter, and better than the look of the LCD. To get a better histogram use UniWB - see http://photo.stackexchange.com/questions/664/what-is-universal-white-balance-uniwb or http://www.malch.com/nikon/UniWB.html - but it's painful.)
--
Simon

Phil888 said:

Some articles on the Internet suggest D300 assumes the subject 12-13% grey instead of 18% grey. I have carried out a test which appears to attest to this. I dial into spot metering mode, point the D300 to a Kodak grey card and take a picture. I find most information not in the middle of the histogram. Information is concentrated on the right handside instead.

Click to expand...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film_speed#Digital_camera_ISO_speed_and_exposure_index

Phil888 said:

I then add -0.7EV exposure compensation and repeat the test and I find information concentrated at the middle of the histogram.

Click to expand...

If you are shooting RAW, you are setting your camera up to underexpose, and I would say you are setting it up to underexpose by nearly 1.67 stops. At base ISO shooting with a reasonable ETTR method, you should be adjusting your D300 RAW files to about minus half a stop of EC in the RAW converter.

The Sekonic web site has the following information as well:

Quote

In-Camera Spot Meters Vs. Hand-Held Meters

Although a number of advanced SLRs offer spot-metering capability, the metering angle is directly related to the focal length of the camera lens in use. Every time the lens is changed, the effective spot-meter angle changes. With a normal lens in use, the spot-metering angle may be 15-degrees or more. A hand-held 1-degree spot meter, on the other hand, allows the most selective measurement of distant subjects, as well as small areas in more complex scenes.

Unquote

The relatively high-rank L-758DR is a 1-degree spot meter of reflected light. The web site appears to suggest L-358 has a 54-degree light receiving angle. If I put lenses covering 10mm - 55mm on my D300 for landscape, what will be the spot-metering angles? Is small spot-metering angle better?

Thanks again.

Phil888 said:

The relatively high-rank L-758DR is a 1-degree spot meter of reflected light. The web site appears to suggest L-358 has a 54-degree light receiving angle. If I put lenses covering 10mm - 55mm on my D300 for landscape, what will be the spot-metering angles? Is small spot-metering angle better?

Click to expand...

Hi Phil,

You haven't answered the question on what problem you are trying to solve by using a hand-held meter. Aren't you getting the right results when using your in-camera meter?

Personally, I find determining the exposure is the easiest part of taking a photo. In fact, the D300 is perfectly able to give a very good exposure in "P" mode; it is rarely too far off.

I find that it is the composition part that makes the difference between a great and a so-so photo. In fact, with the right composition, the photo can still be great when the exposure is less than perfect.

So I can't help wondering if you're not entirely on the wrong track by looking at light meters. As others have said, and in spite of what manufacturers want you to think, light meters have really gone the way of the Dodo (except maybe for very specialized applications).

Eric
--
http://www.lumenssolutions.com/

As a landscape photographer, I always have my Sekonic L-758DR with me.

1. If you buy the calibration card. You can dial in the DR of your exact camera and it can guide you in decision making when you have a particularly difficult scene on your hands.

When I first got the meter, I used it almost ALL the time. Not as much lately.

I still will not get rid of it. It becomes VERY handy to have when you have those difficult scenes.....but with that said after a while, you start to think like your meter more and more as you learn what it is teaching you. The easier scenes soon become easy to read without the meter.

The rub is....you would never have gotten that knowledge without using the meter enough for it to catch fire in your brain. This makes the meter worth the price of entry even though it will decline in use over time.

The way I measure a scene when I use it is as follows.

1. I use incident reading to find the light of the subject. This is my baseline (not necessarily my exposure setting)

2. I can then take a incident reading in any opposing light. (IE if you have heavy shade and bright light) so you can understand the difference between the two.

These two let me know my direct and reflected light sources and what their base characteristics are.

3. I evaluate the scene and see what what I want to include in my composition and use the spot meter to see my dynamic range I have to contend with. This helps me see if one shot will capture all the information or not. If two shots, it will help me figure out what each should be set at.

I then consider how I want my print to look in relation to what I have on my hands and make exposure decisions based on the two.

It sounds like a lot and the first time you use your meter it might actually take quite a while.

After it becomes second nature and you start to see like your meter it gets a LOT faster.

Of course this is a landscape workflow and probably not very useful for someone shooting action....but bits and pieces will still apply if your the kind of action shooter that sets up in advance.

I hope this helps.

Roman
--

“There is only you and your camera. The limitations in your photography are in yourself, for what we see is what we are.”
~ Ernst Haas

We are officially live!!!!
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Thank you for your response.

egrivel said:

You haven't answered the question on what problem you are trying to solve by using a hand-held meter. Aren't you getting the right results when using your in-camera meter?

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I shoot landscape in "M" mode. I have found that I cannot take pictures of brightness / darkness near to what I see at the scenes. I use matrix metering mode, center-weighted metering mode or spot metering mode depending on the situation.

egrivel said:

Personally, I find determining the exposure is the easiest part of taking a photo. In fact, the D300 is perfectly able to give a very good exposure in "P" mode; it is rarely too far off.

Click to expand...

egrivel said:

I find that it is the composition part that makes the difference between a great and a so-so photo. In fact, with the right composition, the photo can still be great when the exposure is less than perfect.

Click to expand...

I agree composition is equally important and even more important.

egrivel said:

So I can't help wondering if you're not entirely on the wrong track by looking at light meters. As others have said, and in spite of what manufacturers want you to think, light meters have really gone the way of the Dodo (except maybe for very specialized applications).

Click to expand...

Regards

Roman

First of all, thank you for responding to my question again. I learnt a lot from you last time.

RomanJohnston said:

As a landscape photographer, I always have my Sekonic L-758DR with me.

Click to expand...

How would you comment on Sekonic L-358? Having read the specifications of L-758DR and L-358, I know the spot metering angle (for reflected light) of L-758DR is 1 degree and the spot metering angle of L-358 is 54 degrees. Does the difference matter for landscape photographers?

Some post on the Internet suggests the spot metering angle of the in-camera metering system changes according to the lens. Is this true? If I put a wide angle lens on my D300, the spot metering angle of the in-camera metering system will be so wide that the reading could be not correct. Do I understand correctly?

RomanJohnston said:

1. If you buy the calibration card. You can dial in the DR of your exact camera and it can guide you in decision making when you have a particularly difficult scene on your hands.

Click to expand...

RomanJohnston said:

When I first got the meter, I used it almost ALL the time. Not as much lately.

Click to expand...

RomanJohnston said:

I still will not get rid of it. It becomes VERY handy to have when you have those difficult scenes.....but with that said after a while, you start to think like your meter more and more as you learn what it is teaching you. The easier scenes soon become easy to read without the meter.

Click to expand...

I agree.

RomanJohnston said:

The rub is....you would never have gotten that knowledge without using the meter enough for it to catch fire in your brain. This makes the meter worth the price of entry even though it will decline in use over time.

Click to expand...

RomanJohnston said:

The way I measure a scene when I use it is as follows.

Click to expand...

RomanJohnston said:

1. I use incident reading to find the light of the subject. This is my baseline (not necessarily my exposure setting)

Click to expand...

Why do you use incident reading instead of metering the reflected light? I thought one should meter the reflected light as the distant subjects cannot be reached. Please correct me if my thinking is wrong.

RomanJohnston said:

2. I can then take a incident reading in any opposing light. (IE if you have heavy shade and bright light) so you can understand the difference between the two.

Click to expand...

RomanJohnston said:

These two let me know my direct and reflected light sources and what their base characteristics are.

Click to expand...

RomanJohnston said:

3. I evaluate the scene and see what what I want to include in my composition and use the spot meter to see my dynamic range I have to contend with. This helps me see if one shot will capture all the information or not. If two shots, it will help me figure out what each should be set at.

Click to expand...

It makes sense to find out the dynamic range.

RomanJohnston said:

I then consider how I want my print to look in relation to what I have on my hands and make exposure decisions based on the two.

Click to expand...

RomanJohnston said:

It sounds like a lot and the first time you use your meter it might actually take quite a while.

Click to expand...

RomanJohnston said:

After it becomes second nature and you start to see like your meter it gets a LOT faster.

Click to expand...

Yes.

RomanJohnston said:

Of course this is a landscape workflow and probably not very useful for someone shooting action....but bits and pieces will still apply if your the kind of action shooter that sets up in advance.

Click to expand...

I do not do sport photography. I shoot still subjects.

Thank you for your help.

Hey Phil…

I have not used the L-358, so I could not speak of its capabilities. Based on what you say, yes there can be a difference if you’re metering specific spots of the landscape. The difference would be being able to isolate a spot for proper metering. My reason for choosing the L-758DR is the DR part. Dynamic Range is one of my largest considerations and to have a meter that monitors that for me is helpful.

I have not tested that so I cannot speak if the lens focal length makes a difference. But I do have to say that it makes sense that it would. Based on what I have heard as well, you understand that correctly. (or at least as I understand it, who knows...we could both have it wrong...lol)

Incident is light falling on the scene from the source. Now with that said if you use incident in non-direct light, you’re still measuring reflected light. The difference is your light is not affected by the color of the item reflecting it. Not so with a spot meter and you have to learn how to take that into account when using a spot meter. The hardest part to learn (for me) was to see a bit in black & white. In other words if you put the entire scene in B&W, what would the tonalities of what you are metering be? (where on a grey scale would it fall) and how do you compensate for that?

This is where understanding the basics of “the zone system” comes into play. It takes a while to adjust. (still adjusting myself) If you’re going to read a full scene with the spot meter, you have to have an idea what each piece would look like on a grey scale after converted to B&W.

The above “talent” is the most beneficial. The second you can start “getting it” is the second you start to see more like your meter does. Then you start to become the best meter you can ever have. One with a brain. : )

Roman

--

“There is only you and your camera. The limitations in your photography are in yourself, for what we see is what we are.”
~ Ernst Haas

We are officially live!!!!
http://www.commercialfineart.com/
Old Web Site
http://www.pbase.com/romansphotos/

Thats a great synopsis of why to use a spot meter, i studied the zone system a few years back, Adams use of this info to 'previsualise' was fundamental to his exposure rates, i will definately get me a spot meter, cheers

We learn to do the things we dont know how to do by doing them, Socrates

Some meters such as the Sekonic L-358 accept accessory spot meter attachments.

The benefit? Lower cost and smaller size than a spot meter.