Phil, please come back

rhlpetrus

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After reading the last 3 dslr reviews from DPR (60D, D7K and K5), with the final comments and scoring the present group of reviewers gave, I can't help but think that DPR has gone astray, not sure if just because of incompetence or because economic interests have taken charge.

Phil, IMO your product has lost a lot of its original luster, maybe a comeback is in order.
--
Renato.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rhlpedrosa/
OnExposure member
http://www.onexposure.net/

Good shooting and good luck
(after Ed Murrow)
 
Phil is gone, just look at all the companies that were bought out, and I have been through a few, the original owner moves on. He may do some consulting but that is about all.
--
Tom
When my bones turn to dust,
and if my CD's didn't rust,
future generations will see my photos
and think that I was nuts.
 
Incompetence? There are very highly skilled and competent people running the show here. You can always ask for a refund :)
--
My humble photo gallery: http://www.pete-the-greek.com

 
Yes and it's graphically obvious that some are easily satisfied also? The entire site is a far cry from what made it the best on the web, you need to examine WHY, WHAT and HOW. Perhaps the clientèle that frequent the site now vs. the previous group of pro's and enthusiasts? It is now becoming an "entry level" of brain power aimed at inane "question and answer" forum and many times subjects not associated with photography. The frequency of reviews is akin to watching paint dry including the absence of lens tests and comparison evaluations of competitive cameras. For me the comparisons are paramount, pages devoted to specifications can be read from the manufactures specification pages at their websites.

I speak with some actual experience regarding acquisition of a company. I sold my NASDAQ listed 16 year old company some 12 years ago when I decided to retire. Within 4 years the entity that bought my company went broke primarily due to trying to IMPROVE what the company was based upon. I am in the process of BUYING BACK my former company and resurrecting the original concepts it was based upon.

It takes a relatively short time to completely decimate an entity IF you lose the purpose it was developed for, aka the computer industry and companies like Hayes or Osborne.

My reasons for frequenting this or any other website is basically for my entertainment and sometimes to keep abreast of new technology, NOT the inane banter between a couple of know nothings trying to convince each other how smart they are....if they were truly SMART they wouldn't waste their time arguing over trivial issues mostly even unrelated to photography on this or other fora.

In retrospect, one of the items I miss was Phils personal observations injected into the reviews, they are sadly missing now, I found his comments unbiased and factual.

The current management seems "hell bent" on convincing the members how competent they are by words rather than actions, the proof of the pudding..........

' You don't have to have the best of everything to get the best out of what you do have'.
 
After reading the last 3 dslr reviews from DPR (60D, D7K and K5), with the final comments and scoring the present group of reviewers gave, I can't help but think that DPR has gone astray, not sure if just because of incompetence or because economic interests have taken charge.

Phil, IMO your product has lost a lot of its original luster, maybe a comeback is in order.
--
Renato.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rhlpedrosa/
OnExposure member
http://www.onexposure.net/

Good shooting and good luck
(after Ed Murrow)
When a ship is steered by a committee, it's only a matter of time before it ends up on the rocks!
 
Incompetence? There are very highly skilled and competent people running the show here. You can always ask for a refund :)
The "refund" argument is really, really lame. If a site is free for users it does not mean that it is justified in lowering its standards.

This site is not a charity for our benefit, and it is not a gift. The time that we, the users, spend on dpreview is the foundation of the advertisement revenue, and dpreview employees get paid for their work. I expect paid workers to do a good job.

I don't think the reviews became worse since Phil sold it. After all, all the data is in front of our eyes, and we can make our own conclusions. I do have grievances with the delays in the reviews, and (the most dumb and fixable fault) the comments to the news articles creating a new thread in the forums each and every time. This really floods the screen and makes it harder to pick the items of personal interest to me.

While we cannot ask for a refund, we can take our business elsewhere. I don't think it will hurt the site in its present situation, but the unhappy users can find something that's closer to their view of the world.

Vlad
 
Just a Nikon fanboy unhappy that K-5 and A55 got gold but his beloved D7000 did not. That's all.
 
Incompetence? There are very highly skilled and competent people running the show here. You can always ask for a refund :)
The same, old, argument... "ask for a refound"!!! Actually Phil got money from Amazon because WE come here, try to keep this in you mind... so, even if we can't ask for a refound, we are entitled to ask for better features or reviews as much as we want.
 
i am sorry that phil has left us but the world goes round and life changes.

how ever imho this is still the best camera site on the internet.
--
peace
 
After reading the last 3 dslr reviews from DPR (60D, D7K and K5), with the final comments and scoring the present group of reviewers gave, I can't help but think that DPR has gone astray, not sure if just because of incompetence or because economic interests have taken charge.

Phil, IMO your product has lost a lot of its original luster, maybe a comeback is in order.
--
Renato.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rhlpedrosa/
OnExposure member
http://www.onexposure.net/

Good shooting and good luck
(after Ed Murrow)
Interestingly, Phil's last full review was March 2008, and his involvement with the reviews had pretty much ended completely by April 2008. I've not been able to do any reviewing since he left in June, but I do intend to return to it. If you have specific examples of incompetence or corruption (as opposed to 'things you don't agree with') I would, of course, be interested to hear them.
Simon
--
Simon Joinson, Editor
dpreview.com
 
Simon, thanks for replying. Of course the "corruption" issue is just a provocation ;).

The first big mistake was the introduction of this senseless % scoring at the end. You have never established what the 100% is, for each level/type of camera/body. So, it became an endless source of confusion for readers. For example, what's 100% for a midrange camera like the 60D/D7K? Why isn't the K5 a midrange camera, given its body specs are much closer to the D7k/60D class than to the real semipro/pro ones like the 7D and the D300s?

Here is how the reviewers have put it:

"Ultimately, we have no hesitation in recommending the Pentax K-5 to anyone - not only existing Pentax users, and despite its high cost (for the moment- we expect it to drop once the K-7 leaves dealers' shelves) it earns a solid gold award. A note on categories though - the K-5 is a hard product to categorise. Although it competes with the Nikon D7000 and even the Canon EOS 60D in some respects, it's introductory price clearly indicates that Pentax wants the K-5 to be viewed alongside the likes of the Nikon D300S and Canon EOS 7D. For this reason we have classified the K-5 as a semi-pro model (as we did the K-7), and scored it accordingly."

This is really the worst of it for me: it performs and is spec'd as a midrange, but is priced as a semipro, like D300s/7D. Then what? It's scored "accordingly", i.e., higher!!! It should have been penalized for that, not prized!

Now some more specifics:

The D7K had list of cons and end comments like buttons positioning, buffer, AF at lowlight, etc. Ok, how much better is the K5 in those areas? The problem is even more patent since the reviewer used older firmware for K5 that didn't showed any difference, actually it was worse than the D7K's, and it didnt' get any mention.

The review explicitly mentions the inaccuracy of K5'sAF in low light. For D7K it says it's "hesitant" in low light, which I take to mean "hunting". For K5 it says, in page 11, bottom: "In the dull interiors of bars and museums, the K-5 doesn't give 100% accuracy, but out of the hundreds of frames which we shot, only a handful are marred by focus errors." Nikons are known to be exactly in focus when they say so (I have one and it's like that).

Hunting is not uncommon with any camera and depends also on lenses, speciallly in low light. Now, "innacuracy" is a design problem, if camera says it's focused and image comes out oof. If the K5 does that, it's a major CON, even if it only happens now and then. For that, Canon has paid a high price in their pro line, as you certainly know. If this is supposed to be a semipro camera, that would by itself have costed it many points, it's not even mentioned in the final comments.

Next: IQ. The report says it shows jaggies. Next, if one checks the RAW samples at and above 3200 ISO, it's clear detail is being lost for K5. DxO MArk has detected and all Pentax users know that Pentax has used NR in RAW for some time, and it's the case here, with IQ losses. Pentaxians have asked in their forum for that to be optional. Not mentioned by your team. There are other issues, but I'll stop here with K5/D7K.

But just one finla question: how come a flawed design (ghosts), like A55's, gets a "Gold" from DPR?

To me, it seems DPR has decided that IQ and basic flawless functioning, not fancy gadgetry, are not the main issues when reviewing better cameras like dslrs and other intechangeable lens bodies. Maybe just my impression, but it's getting more and more widespread, at least in the lower Nikon forum.
After reading the last 3 dslr reviews from DPR (60D, D7K and K5), with the final comments and scoring the present group of reviewers gave, I can't help but think that DPR has gone astray, not sure if just because of incompetence or because economic interests have taken charge.

Phil, IMO your product has lost a lot of its original luster, maybe a comeback is in order.
--
Renato.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rhlpedrosa/
OnExposure member
http://www.onexposure.net/

Good shooting and good luck
(after Ed Murrow)
Interestingly, Phil's last full review was March 2008, and his involvement with the reviews had pretty much ended completely by April 2008. I've not been able to do any reviewing since he left in June, but I do intend to return to it. If you have specific examples of incompetence or corruption (as opposed to 'things you don't agree with') I would, of course, be interested to hear them.
Simon
--
Simon Joinson, Editor
dpreview.com
--
Renato.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rhlpedrosa/
OnExposure member
http://www.onexposure.net/

Good shooting and good luck
(after Ed Murrow)
 
A review is not a mathematical equation with only one right answer.

It is a review, that is based on chosen methodology , and surely, to a degree, subjective.

That is why you may not like it. You may want different criteria and a different outcome.

But, so what?

Nobody here , or on any other review site, professes to be the ultimate and the only guru , qualified to give a camera a definite score and ranking.
Well, there isn't one definite score and definite ranking.

For all I care, I think the percentage given is just simply a quantified opinion. Yours may be different. Mine may be different.

It is in the process of the review, in tests, that you may find interesting info and draw your own conclusions.

Why are you so bent on arguing the final score percentage? Does it really matter?
Rgds
 
Are you unsable to read a review and draw your own conclusions?

Sheesh.

--

The greatest of mankind's criminals are those who delude themselves into thinking they have done 'the right thing.'
  • Rayna Butler
 
These Nikon fanboys seem to be comming out of the woodwork lately.
Don V. Armitage
 
You and I have opinions, DPR, DXO Mark and others do reviews. They may involve opinions, for sure, but since they also intend to help prospective buyers, they are supposed to follow established standards, otherwise they become just another source of opinions.

DxO Mark states clearly how their scores come about. IR makes general comments and uses Imatest data to talk about IQ and compare cameras. DPR never did, I questioned that, since they confuse people. I understand clearly what they wrote, but find it hard to go from there to the final score bars and final % score.

I expressed one opinion (flawed final comments and scores), Simon asked why, I responded. There, I didn't express my opinions, read my response to Simon, I quoted their own reviews. I questioned the use they made of their own findings. Pretty valid to do that, why not?

If I were the one using their own findings to score these cameras, I'd go something like K5=D7K > 60D, and the last difference just based on IQ of new Sony sensor used by Pentax and Nikon. Pricing would tip value in favor of D7K, slightly. None of the findings would justify previous users of these brands to jump to another camp. My opinions, based on their findings, if you ask.
A review is not a mathematical equation with only one right answer.

It is a review, that is based on chosen methodology , and surely, to a degree, subjective.

That is why you may not like it. You may want different criteria and a different outcome.

But, so what?

Nobody here , or on any other review site, professes to be the ultimate and the only guru , qualified to give a camera a definite score and ranking.
Well, there isn't one definite score and definite ranking.

For all I care, I think the percentage given is just simply a quantified opinion. Yours may be different. Mine may be different.

It is in the process of the review, in tests, that you may find interesting info and draw your own conclusions.

Why are you so bent on arguing the final score percentage? Does it really matter?
Rgds
--
Renato.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rhlpedrosa/
OnExposure member
http://www.onexposure.net/

Good shooting and good luck
(after Ed Murrow)
 
. . . A 3% difference in rating is hardly worth all of this drama. Nikkor lenses still trump every other lineup out there except for Canon's long primes which is what's really important. Maybe you should take a break from here and try to get your priorities in order.
 
To me, it seems DPR has decided that IQ and basic flawless functioning, not fancy gadgetry, are not the main issues when reviewing better cameras like dslrs and other intechangeable lens bodies. Maybe just my impression, but it's getting more and more widespread, at least in the lower Nikon forum.
Actually, we gave the D7000 full credit for its excellent IQ. But we also value 'basic flawless functioning' quite highly, which is where the D7000 gets some things wrong. Unless, of course, you consider a tendency to overexpose in bright, contrasty situations, and completely broken aperture control in live view and movie mode (for example) to constitute flawless operation. Somehow you seem to have overlooked these small details.

--
Andy Westlake
dpreview.com
 
I second that. Phil often responded to my comments and always in a positive and sometimes humorous way.
Jules
In retrospect, one of the items I miss was Phils personal observations injected into the reviews, they are sadly missing now, I found his comments unbiased and factual.
--
Julesarnia on twitter
 

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