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P7000 Firmware update 1.1

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Andrebar, I think your comment is effectively correct, but I suspect that in fact, "if you zoom to 28mm", the camera does nothing physically with the aperture (i.e. the effective diameter doesn't change), and you end up as a consequence of the new focal length , with an aperture of 2.8. I'm not sure I'm correct about this.

Crazy stuff!

Can someone answer my query in the post just above, which is basically do you preserve the sweet spot with the Nikon Aperture Priority approach discussed, where the aperture diameter doesn't change with zooming even if the effective aperture does?
 
wymjym said:
this can be confusing but I'll try to clarify by an analogy.

Most camera companies offer an aperture priority mode in certain cameras. Most camera companies follow a prescribed operating methodology. Nikon for some reason has taken to setting their own standards as to how aperture priority applies to certain Nikon cameras, not all Nikons, just some.
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Once again: this is not a particular implementation or "Nikon fashion". It is a normal behavior of a variable opening zoom lens. What Terry says would be valid ONLY for fixed F zoom lenses, for example 24-70 f/2.8. You are making a confusion.
 
sorry...this quirk doesn't really bother me but to further explain.

The P7000 is not consistent. set the lens to 28mm and 5.6, zoom to 200mm (should read 8.0)..at that point all is fine...now retract the lens to 28mm and the F stop is magically 4.0 (not 5.6 as initially set).

wj
--
nikonricohcanonandfuji
 
No, I am not mistaken. I believe you are missing the point as it is somewhat hard to clearly state in less than two paragraphs.
w
nikonricohcanonandfuji
 
Hi Don,
Maybe the P7000 works the way you're suggesting. I don't know.

Just curious : I'd like to know what happens if you are at 200 mm, F/8, and you zoom to 28mm ?
What aperture does the camera choose ?

If the camera works the way you suggest, then, we should have an aperture of about 5.6 (2 stops slower than maximal aperture)
If that's true, that makes sense, IMO. I'd like to know.
André
Don Fraser said:
Andrebar, I think your comment is effectively correct, but I suspect that in fact, "if you zoom to 28mm", the camera does nothing physically with the aperture (i.e. the effective diameter doesn't change), and you end up as a consequence of the new focal length , with an aperture of 2.8. I'm not sure I'm correct about this.

Crazy stuff!

Can someone answer my query in the post just above, which is basically do you preserve the sweet spot with the Nikon Aperture Priority approach discussed, where the aperture diameter doesn't change with zooming even if the effective aperture does?
Click to expand...
 
mblg said:
How on earth can a camera with a variable F zoom lens keep the SAME F value on the entire focal range ???
Click to expand...
If you set the aperture at f/2.8 at 28mm, and zoom toward the tele end of a variable aperture lens, obviously the aperture will change.

If you set the aperture at f/5.6 at 200mm, why do you think it couldn't/shouldn't stay at f/5.6 when zooming toward the wide end?

If I set my Minolta A1 at f/5.6 at 200mm, and zoom toward the wide end, it will stay at f/5.6 ;-)

--
Patco
A photograph is more than a bunch of pixels
 
Oupsss... Sorry, I didn't know that. Maybe I should have read the whole thread.
Thank you for clarifying that.

I understand and fully agree : the behaviour of the camera is completely aberrant.
That's obviously a bug, correctable by firmware, I think.
André
wymjym said:
sorry...this quirk doesn't really bother me but to further explain.

The P7000 is not consistent. set the lens to 28mm and 5.6, zoom to 200mm (should read 8.0)..at that point all is fine...now retract the lens to 28mm and the F stop is magically 4.0 (not 5.6 as initially set).

wj
--
nikonricohcanonandfuji
Click to expand...
 
This is correct. See my post near "re: aperture priority" near the bottom of this thread. It goes through some very basic math to explain how it works. The net of it is that since your f/-number is a ratio of lens opening to focal length, as your lens focal length changes (zoom), you have to move your aperture blades and change the lens opening diameter to keep the same f/-number.

--
http://www.flickr.com/khoa_sus2
 
Terry Cioni said:
What are you talking about! I have extensively used and defend this camera on this forum.

I have carefully read the manual - the problem here is you don't understand the problem which tells me you don't have the camera.
Click to expand...
Actually I bought one today from PURE curiosity to understand these so called "problems". Serial 40112xxx. I took a lot of photos this evening, no issues. No menu freezing, no aperture "erratic" behaviors, no problems in Aperture Priority, no "reset via removing battery", no problems whatsoever. I read about 6+ seconds write time for raw files. I experienced something around 2-3 seconds. With firmware 1.0. Now I upgraded to 1.1 -> not much of visible changes in behavior. Overall I cannot find any flaws. Macro works perfect, focus works perfect, metering works perfect. Colors are fine, my SB800 works fine on top of it (although I am a bit unsure which one is mounted on which). Went for 4 hours in the freezing cold (-10 today) - battery still works, no problems with the camera too.

What else should I look for to justify that this is a junk ? Because it isn't.

mblg
Member said:
mblg said:
The almost three pages with "what you cannot do" with the P7000 starting at p108 is also very useful.

I don't want to be intended as a rant, but, really, read carefully the specs/ manual before you trash the manufacturer. And then decide if you buy or not.

regards

mblg
Terry Cioni said:
I had hoped that Nikon would address what I think is a problem with Aperture Priority Mode.

Taking into account the aperture will change as the camera is zoomed up to 200mm there is some strange behaviour - if you set the camera to F8 which should cover the entire zoom range from 28mm to 200mm it will change when the camera is zoomed - even though it should not change at F8 - I had hoped this would be fixed with this firmware update but not so. Unless I am missing something. This virtually makes aperture priority mode useless.

Still a great little camera..and the new firmware does fix many other issues and I don't regret the purchase of the P7000.

Best regards, Terry.
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Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Good question - the answer is it is physically possible because the effective aperture changes with focal length, as prior posts (not mine) describe.
 
Oh well - it was fun while it lasted. Thanks for the clarification.

I guess its a nutty camera that happens to take very good pictures and has a zoom (for that specific small class of cameras with a slightly larger sensor) that stands out.

I've fooled around on line only with the P7000 problems, but I think I'll now take the leap and get one.
 
mblg said:
wymjym said:
No, I am not mistaken. I believe you are missing the point as it is somewhat hard to clearly state in less than two paragraphs.
Click to expand...
If you cannot explain than there is no point.
If one understands something then one should be able to explain.
Could not be so hard.
mblg said:
w
nikonricohcanonandfuji
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
I'm not the other guy, but no, it has been explained to you several times, and it has been explained very well. It's not a difficult concept - you set the aperture value in aperture priority once, and then as you zoom the only reason that f-stop value should change is if the lens physically cannot do that aperture.

You keep insisting you "don't understand" it - either you have never used any other camera with aperture priority mode, or you're deliberately pretending not to understand. The normal way it acts on every other camera is that you set an f-stop - like f5.6 - and then it stays at that f-stop no matter what you do, as long as the lens can physically do it.

It is indeed "Nikon Fashion", if it was not then most other cameras would act the same way (which they do not).
 
PaulRivers said:
mblg said:
wymjym said:
No, I am not mistaken. I believe you are missing the point as it is somewhat hard to clearly state in less than two paragraphs.
Click to expand...
If you cannot explain than there is no point.
If one understands something then one should be able to explain.
Could not be so hard.
PaulRivers said:
w
nikonricohcanonandfuji
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
You keep insisting you "don't understand" it - either you have never used any other camera with aperture priority mode, or you're deliberately pretending not to understand. The normal way it acts on every other camera is that you set an f-stop - like f5.6 - and then it stays at that f-stop no matter what you do, as long as the lens can physically do it.
Click to expand...
Yes, and I will insist over it because many posts here completely miss the point of Aperture Priority.

This mode on any camera has a SINGLE and UNIQUE purpose: to allow the user the possibility to control THE DEPTH of field. Should I write it again to be clearer ? Aperture priority is not for "keeping the F value" is for "keeping the same DOF" as intended by user.

If keeping the DOF while zooming is limited by the physical design of the lens, the displayed value WILL change accordingly to mirror the value that keeps the same INTENDED DOF. That's why is "AUTO" Aperture Priority. Auto.

It is not stupid, nor a flaw it is the way AP should behave. If keeping 5.6 as zooming will modify the DOF, then what is the point of Aperture Priority ? Just to display the same value ?

There is a lot of arrogance on these forums and some of you quickly jump at the conclusions regarding other people. Please note this is really this is the a-b-c of photography. And nothing's funnier that to watch arrogance ridiculed by itself.

;)

By the way, P7000 is a cool camera and works perfectly. At least mine. At least within its limitations and intended use.

Warmest regards.

mblg
 
Don Fraser said:
Good question - the answer is it is physically possible because the effective aperture changes with focal length, as prior posts (not mine) describe.
Click to expand...
I am not aware how they did it, but I know for sure that Aperture Priority has one single and unique real purpose: to preserve the DOF as intended by user. Nothing else.

Maybe this answers to the question if this should be corrected by firmware or not. No, it shouldn't.

mblg
 
I was trying to help you see that you were missing several key points. Your replies to myself and others show me that you basically have your head up your SS.

BTW being able to describe something and taking the time to explain it to a butt brain are entirely different. I choose not to waste my time with your nonsense.
Have a nice life.
wj
--
nikonricohcanonandfuji
 

wymjym said:
I was trying to help you see that you were missing several key points. Your replies to myself and others show me that you basically have your head up your SS.

BTW being able to describe something and taking the time to explain it to a butt brain are entirely different. I choose not to waste my time with your nonsense.
Have a nice life.
wj
--
nikonricohcanonandfuji
Click to expand...
 
to: mblg

There is a second purpose that you may have forgotten about, and that is that a lens usually has what is called a "sweet spot", at a particular aperture. That may be a preferred aperture. usually with a digital camera, it is something like f4 or f5.6.

A lens may also have a series of apertures that are the opposite, let's say f11 or f16, where CA is noticeably more apparent than other apertures.

Aperture priority is possibly more often used with digital cameras to choose the sweet spot, and avoid the CA spot, or whatever the defect is, now that depth of field is usually pretty deep no matter what aperture is chosen.

So choice of aperture with a digital camera is more likely for IQ than DoF, unless you are into things like macro, or a great wide open lens, like an f2. In those situations, control of DoF is valuable.
 
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