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P7000 Firmware update 1.1

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What are you talking about! I have extensively used and defend this camera on this forum.

I have carefully read the manual - the problem here is you don't understand the problem which tells me you don't have the camera.

So if you have the P7000 set it to aperture priority zoom to 200mm and set it to 5.6 - then zoom back to 28mm it will on it's very own change the aperture to 2.8 and it should NOT do that. That is what aperture priority is all about user gets to pick the aperture within the zoom lens range in this case. I don't care what the manual says or page 108 it doesn't work - you would know that if you had the P7000 in hand. Don't lecture me on trashing manufactures - I haven't done that I resent you implying I have.
mblg said:
The almost three pages with "what you cannot do" with the P7000 starting at p108 is also very useful.

I don't want to be intended as a rant, but, really, read carefully the specs/ manual before you trash the manufacturer. And then decide if you buy or not.

regards

mblg
Terry Cioni said:
I had hoped that Nikon would address what I think is a problem with Aperture Priority Mode.

Taking into account the aperture will change as the camera is zoomed up to 200mm there is some strange behaviour - if you set the camera to F8 which should cover the entire zoom range from 28mm to 200mm it will change when the camera is zoomed - even though it should not change at F8 - I had hoped this would be fixed with this firmware update but not so. Unless I am missing something. This virtually makes aperture priority mode useless.

Still a great little camera..and the new firmware does fix many other issues and I don't regret the purchase of the P7000.

Best regards, Terry.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Because Nikon copied the G9, with the longer zoom. Canon no longer make the G9 and technology has moved on, well.... Canon has!! Having said that, if you can forgive its bad manners, I have been getting some nice IQ from the P7000

Will install the fix when there is a bit more feedback on it!
--
Cherry Alexander.
http://www.arcticphoto.com
 
Well, think about it in terms of lens physics:
  • the "f" number is expressed as f/n, where 1/n equals the ratio of aperture to focal length. So at maximum focal length (200mm equiv is actually 42.6mm in real terms on this camera), f/8 means that the aperture is 1/8 of the focal length, ie: in real, physical terms, we're talking about an aperture of 1/8 of 42.6mm = 5.33mm.
  • so, if you "zoom out," and your focal length is say, now, 21.3mm (about 100mm equiv, give or take), your 5.33mm opening is now about 1/4 of that, so your f/number = f/4
Does this make sense?

--
http://www.flickr.com/khoa_sus2
 
as I noted in my post above, f/5.6 is maximum aperture at "200mm". zooming out to "28mm," without moving your aperture blades, you would stay at maximum aperture, or f/2.8.

zoom lenses with their variable focal lengths are what's causing the complication: in order to stay at f/5.6, the lens would have to close down two stops as you zoom out. I guess it's a matter of personal preference. My old Coolpix 995 and 4500 both behave in the way that the P6000 and P7000 do, but my 4500 does have a feature where you can keep a "constant aperture" (as long as it's supported at that focal length) as you zoom out. It's an additional feature, and not what Nikon considers normal aperture priority. I'm okay with that.

--
http://www.flickr.com/khoa_sus2
 
I just tried again, not quite stopwatch, but with an old blue Sandisk (pre-class system) card write time was around 3, maybe 3.5 seconds - still faster than firmware 1.0 on the Sandisk Extreme!
WobblyLegs said:
Jon Read said:
I'm getting a few reports of that being the case. It may be that the P7000 is picky about SD cards. Which make/model are you using? Class 6 or 10?

Thanks!
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Click to expand...
 
I understand your point! My understanding of the concept of aperture priority is the photog picks the aperture the camera adjusts the shutter speed for correct exposure. I agree the zoom lens complicates things because it is variable aperture depending on the focal length - all good. In the case of the P7000 it is 2.8 to 5.6 depending on the focal length, at each end - 200mm being F5.6 and 28mm being F2.8

That said within the confines of the zoom lens variable aperture I should be able to say set the camera at 5.6 and as I zoom back to 28mm or any focal length on along the way and it should stay at 5.6 - it does not. This is a choice I believe NOW that Nikon has made - aperture priority means the camera sets the aperture not the user. No argument, in that I have used APM with good success understanding how it is implemented on the P7000 (I had the 990/995 and 4500 but always used P mode back in those days). I did not buy the P6000.

I have D7000 sitting here in front of me and aperture priority with 16-85mm works as I understand aperture priority mode should work. This is not a huge deal but interesting that the P7000 is different - as I said the Canon G12 takes the standard approach to APM. I have noticed that in step zoom mode you can set the aperture priority mode and it works as described - taking into account the focal length and aperture combination, etc.

I should stop - as I have been accused of ragging on Nikon - for the record I am not. I love the P7000 and have had a ton of fun with it.

Regards, Terry
My P7000 snaps on flickr
http://www.flickr.com/photos/streetfusion/sets/72157624961652193/show/
khoa_sus2 said:
as I noted in my post above, f/5.6 is maximum aperture at "200mm". zooming out to "28mm," without moving your aperture blades, you would stay at maximum aperture, or f/2.8.

zoom lenses with their variable focal lengths are what's causing the complication: in order to stay at f/5.6, the lens would have to close down two stops as you zoom out. I guess it's a matter of personal preference. My old Coolpix 995 and 4500 both behave in the way that the P6000 and P7000 do, but my 4500 does have a feature where you can keep a "constant aperture" (as long as it's supported at that focal length) as you zoom out. It's an additional feature, and not what Nikon considers normal aperture priority. I'm okay with that.

--
http://www.flickr.com/khoa_sus2
Click to expand...
 
I think it depends on how we want our aperture setting to be as we zoom.
  • (D)SLRs keep constant aperture setting as we zoom, only change if the aperture that is possible at a zoomed in focal range is smaller than the user's set aperture. Hence, as the user zooms back out, it will stop at the aperture that was set by the user.
  • P7K keeps relative aperture setting (read, difference between largest aperture at a particular focal range and the user's set aperture) as we zoom, and will change if the zoomed in focal range has smaller aperture. However, as the user zooms back out, it will maintain the relative aperture setting, so yes, it will change.
Is the P7K a (D)SLR, no. Should it behave like a (D)SLR, it's personal preference. So draw your own conclusion.
 
This is a Nikon thing then...

Both the Canon G12 and the Panasonic LX5 (both point and shoot not dslr cameras) do aperture priority as aperture priority and similar to a dslr with a variable aperture lens attached.

I completely understand that as focal length changes so does the aperture - UP TO 5.6 at the 200mm end of the zoom on the P7000. I should be able to set the aperture at 5.6 and expect that it remains there as I zoom down to 28mm - it does not do that but changes. Thus the user selectable part of aperture priority is lost.

Nikon has chosen a different approach - I get that. Not sure I agree as I feel it negates user selectable apertures within the zoom range limitations. Again not a biggie.

Terry.
dwfoto said:
I think it depends on how we want our aperture setting to be as we zoom.
  • (D)SLRs keep constant aperture setting as we zoom, only change if the aperture that is possible at a zoomed in focal range is smaller than the user's set aperture. Hence, as the user zooms back out, it will stop at the aperture that was set by the user.
  • P7K keeps relative aperture setting (read, difference between largest aperture at a particular focal range and the user's set aperture) as we zoom, and will change if the zoomed in focal range has smaller aperture. However, as the user zooms back out, it will maintain the relative aperture setting, so yes, it will change.
Is the P7K a (D)SLR, no. Should it behave like a (D)SLR, it's personal preference. So draw your own conclusion.
Click to expand...
 
On small correction:

The DSLR/SLR doesn't keep constant aperture, the lens does. That's because the size of the opening for f/whatever is going to be different for different focal lengths, so as you zoom, the aperture blades adjust according to the aperture ring position. Zoom lenses are complicated mofos ;)

--
http://www.flickr.com/khoa_sus2
 
Given all of that about aperture, which I find new to me and fascinating, what becomes of the issue of choosing the aperture with best performance?

We know, for example, that a high number aperture (i.e f11, if available) causes diffraction and should be avoided for best IQ.

We also know that a lens will have a preferred aperture for best IQ (let's say f4, or whatever).

So, on aperture priority done the Nikon P7K, do you keep the preferred aperture for IQ, as you zoom, even though the actual number changes with focal length (i.e. from f5.6 to f4, or whatever), or do you lose that?

I hope my question is clear. It's an important one, because many people will choose aperture priority as a way to maximize IQ. Does that choice work with the Nikon system, where the aperture diameter remains unchanged, but the aperture number changes with focal length?

If it does work, then advantage to Nikon!
 
this can be confusing but I'll try to clarify by an analogy.

Most camera companies offer an aperture priority mode in certain cameras. Most camera companies follow a prescribed operating methodology. Nikon for some reason has taken to setting their own standards as to how aperture priority applies to certain Nikon cameras, not all Nikons, just some.

now then...if you have an automobile with cruise control it is accepted practice that if you set a speed at say 55mph the car will travel at that speed + -. If you accelerate faster than the set speed and then release the throttle the car will slow to 55 and then the cruise control will once again maintain 55 mph. If you are traveling at 55mph and step on the brakes the cruise control will become disengage but you can, via some means (lever, push-button, etc) reactivate the cruise control and the car will accelerate back to 55mph and then maintain that speed. All automobile with fully functioning cruise control will follow this pattern. If Nikon was the manufacturer, once you set the speed to 55mph and then slow down (brake application) and then 'resume the speed' via the push button/lever or whatever. the speed you will 'resume' to will not be 55mph but rather something that Nikon programmed into the software.
wj

--
nikonricohcanonandfuji
 
From what I understand, and from personal observations, compact cameras and their lenses work best near their maximum aperture. even at f/7.2 on my P6000, I can see diffraction, and I don't notice any real improvement in light falloff or sharpness when I stop down from max.

As for SLR lenses, different lenses have different sweet spots. I guess it's research and/or trial and error, but I've always tried to keep 1-2 stops down in mind. It also helps with DOF, since an f/1.2 lens is great, but at a certain distance, the DOF is just so razor-thin that it doesn't make much sense.

--
http://www.flickr.com/khoa_sus2
 
Very interesting thread.
I don't own a P7000, I have a Canon G11, but my DSLR is a D90.

I read carefully the previous posts. I didn't know the P7000 had been programmed that way. That's unusual, but, IMO, not silly.

If you use a FL of 200mm in A mode, and set aperture to 5.6, it means you want to use the widest available aperture (maybe, because you want a shallow DOF, or try to avoid blur due to camera shake).

So, if you zoom to 28mm, the P7000 "supposes" you want to keep the widest aperture available, hence, it "chooses" 2.8.

Given DOF varies with aperture, but with focal length too, I find that makes sense. It doesn't "negate" the user's choice, as you can always reset aperture to the value you want (ie 5.6).

I hope I understood correctly the way the P7000 works. If not, please correct me, and accept my apologies.
André
 
Terry Cioni said:
What are you talking about! I have extensively used and defend this camera on this forum.

I have carefully read the manual - the problem here is you don't understand the problem which tells me you don't have the camera.

So if you have the P7000 set it to aperture priority zoom to 200mm and set it to 5.6 - then zoom back to 28mm it will on it's very own change the aperture to 2.8 and it should NOT do that. That is what aperture priority is all about user gets to pick the aperture within the zoom lens range in this case. I don't care what the manual says or page 108 it doesn't work - you would know that if you had the P7000 in hand. Don't lecture me on trashing manufactures - I haven't done that I resent you implying I have.
Click to expand...
Cool down.
Let's say that you own a D700.
You put D700 in aperture priority.

Let's say you have a 70-300 f/4.5-5.6 lens and mount it on D700 in aperture priority mode.

What's the F at 300 mm IN Aperture Priority mode on D700 ? 4.5 ????

What you say is valid for a fixed f lens which in P7000 is NOT the case.

Warmest regards,

mblg
Member said:
mblg said:
The almost three pages with "what you cannot do" with the P7000 starting at p108 is also very useful.

I don't want to be intended as a rant, but, really, read carefully the specs/ manual before you trash the manufacturer. And then decide if you buy or not.

regards

mblg
Terry Cioni said:
I had hoped that Nikon would address what I think is a problem with Aperture Priority Mode.

Taking into account the aperture will change as the camera is zoomed up to 200mm there is some strange behaviour - if you set the camera to F8 which should cover the entire zoom range from 28mm to 200mm it will change when the camera is zoomed - even though it should not change at F8 - I had hoped this would be fixed with this firmware update but not so. Unless I am missing something. This virtually makes aperture priority mode useless.

Still a great little camera..and the new firmware does fix many other issues and I don't regret the purchase of the P7000.

Best regards, Terry.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Terry Cioni said:
This is a Nikon thing then...

Both the Canon G12 and the Panasonic LX5 (both point and shoot not dslr cameras) do aperture priority as aperture priority and similar to a dslr with a variable aperture lens attached.
Click to expand...
How on earth can a camera with a variable F zoom lens keep the SAME F value on the entire focal range ???
Member said:
I completely understand that as focal length changes so does the aperture - UP TO 5.6 at the 200mm end of the zoom on the P7000. I should be able to set the aperture at 5.6 and expect that it remains there as I zoom down to 28mm - it does not do that but changes. Thus the user selectable part of aperture priority is lost.

Nikon has chosen a different approach - I get that. Not sure I agree as I feel it negates user selectable apertures within the zoom range limitations. Again not a biggie.

Terry.
dwfoto said:
I think it depends on how we want our aperture setting to be as we zoom.
  • (D)SLRs keep constant aperture setting as we zoom, only change if the aperture that is possible at a zoomed in focal range is smaller than the user's set aperture. Hence, as the user zooms back out, it will stop at the aperture that was set by the user.
  • P7K keeps relative aperture setting (read, difference between largest aperture at a particular focal range and the user's set aperture) as we zoom, and will change if the zoomed in focal range has smaller aperture. However, as the user zooms back out, it will maintain the relative aperture setting, so yes, it will change.
Is the P7K a (D)SLR, no. Should it behave like a (D)SLR, it's personal preference. So draw your own conclusion.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
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