Zeiss Planar 50mm f1.4 vs Voigtlander 50mm f1.1

sj2

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I am looking for a fast 50mm to use with my E-PL1, primarily. At apertures of 1.4 and smaller, how does the Zeiss compare to the Voigtlander mostly in terms of colour, contrast and bokeh? The added incentive to buy Zeiss is that I can also use it with my Pentax K-x. My concern with the Zeiss is that at f1.4 it would be at it's widest where as the Voigtlander would already be stopped down so might perform better than the Zeiss?

Thanks!
 
its always fun to read Ken Rockwell's site about lenses. check it out.

the planar seems to resolve very well, but as expected for a fast 50mm lens, shows low contrast wideopen.

i don't think you can't go wrong with either lens, but the zeiss is prob smoother in the out of focus areas. I have the nokton and like its bokeh which sometimes is a bit harsh.

a friend of me does alot of modelshooting with his zeiss planar wideopen.....his results look great, both bokeh and colour(though he processes the color to his style, he calls it "false colour")
btw both lenses are made by cosina.
 
Jean, your opinion matches with what I have read so far about both lenses. But, Ken Rockwell, really? :) The guy's a well known troll for photography reviews. He reviews equipment he has never seen or touched :P
 
Jean, your opinion matches with what I have read so far about both lenses. But, Ken Rockwell, really? :) The guy's a well known troll for photography reviews. He reviews equipment he has never seen or touched :P
Maybe some find Rockwell writing with the right attitude?

I don't know. I do know I never visit his site. I was there, I read a review with interest. There were some new findings I didn't know about. Then, in the final paragraph Rockwell suddenly admitted he never had held the camera in question, or even seen it in real life.

No credibility at all.

Jonas
 
No credibility at all.
Very true, But he's an entertaining read and sometimes - probably by accident - he actually gets things right. I read his description(s) of bokeh recently and not only could I not find fault with it technically I'd be hard pressed to find a better explanation elsewhere.

Unfortunately he's like a one-man wikipedia without the ability to edit or correct. Not a reliable source of information at all.

--
John Bean [GMT]
 
The Panasonic is good lens but I am not looking for a 25mm. I already have that covered with a different kit :)
 
Trolls, whatever you do, don't feed them :P
would never buy a 1.0 or 0.95 lens without AF. Simply unusable.
This must be a follow-up to your likewise worthless post from a couple of days ago:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1041&message=37161580

I like the Panasonic 25/1.4 better with a Panasonic camera btw, then you get a working aperture ring. With an EP1... Simply unusable.
Is it very hard for you to let people have their preferences?

Jonas
 
Thanks for posting those links, Bogdan. They did show when I googled the lenses but since I had never ventured on that site, I did not read the reviews earlier. Very thorough reviews both, objective and subjective.

The reviews validate what others had told me that VC 50mm f1.1 is a special lens and if I don't need that aperture then it is best to stay with a regular f1.4 lens. I think the VC 50mm f1.1 review does a great job of explaining that while the lens is great in it's own right but does not compare directly with some of the best f1.4 lenses.

Coming to Zeiss Planar 50mm f1.4 vs VC 50mm f/1.5, I have read very positive reviews of both. However, one review site, photozone.de, that I do trust dinged the VC badly in it's rating. I have to admit though that photozone guys seem to be a tough crowd to please.

Personally, I think I like Zeiss's bokeh better but one, bokeh isn't scientific comparison and two, even subjectively comparing bokeh of two lenses is hard unless same picture is taken with both.

http://www.photozone.de/sony-alpha-aps-c-lens-tests/562-voigtlander50f15nex?start=1

So I am going to search around a bit more. Another candidate in the race is the Carl Zeiss 50mm f1.4 for CY mount that is pretty similar to the current Zeiss except for some additional coating and blades (that change bokeh, I guess).

My gut feeling is whichever lens I buy, I am pretty sure I will always wonder what the other would have been like :P
 
You're welcome, and I'll try to muddy the waters a little bit more.

There are a few other issues to consider when buying a fifty for mirrorless.

The first choice is between a rangefinder lens (i.e. Voigt, Zeiss Ikon) or an SLR lens (Zeiss K mount, Canon FD, etc., etc.).

Until 50mm, rengefinder designs are usually easily superior to their SLR counterparts, they are either much lighter, or much better, or some of both. That's because SLR lenses must be retrofocus, to leave room for the mirror movement, and that requires lenses from wide to normal to have an asymmetrical design, which is pretty hard to correct for aberrations.

On the other hand, rangefinder lenses can keep symmetrical designs, which allows them to produce better results with simpler designs (hence part of the Leica lenses fame).

There is however, a downside to rangefinder lenses on mirrorless cameras. Since the exit pupils of these lenses are pretty close to the sensor (very non telecentric designs), sometimes you get weird artefacts, especially in the image corners, and I think the CV f 1.5 is one of the lenses which does this, IIRC ( I haven't really had the time to pixelpeep in my picture corners, they are all the time OOF, I use the lens only at f 1.5 for portraits).

So this complicates a bit the choice between a rangefinder and an SLR design.

There is also the issue if the lens contains or not aspherical elements (asphericals might affect bokeh, but also normally improve wide open contrast and resolution). Neither the Voigt and the Zeiss that you were considering have any.

But since choosing an SLR design doesn't seem to bother you, and since a big size doesn't seem to bother you either, may I also suggest the Canon FD 55mm f 1.2 SSC Asph (careful, all the qualifiers in the name are important, there are non asph versions who are pretty average)? This is a great old Canon lens, you will find it for around 600 euro in mint condition. If you mean to use your fifty mostly wide open, this lens should give you all: bokeh, contrast and resolution. Everything I heard on it is superlative. Unfortunately it will be even harder to find thorough reviews on this one.

The Zeiss is a great lens stopped down, very very sharp, but wide open the contrast is only average. You can do some pixel peeping on this site, here a comparison with the Sigma 50mm:

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?CameraComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=0&Lens=709&Camera=453&Sample=0&FLI=0&API=0&LensComp=473

The aspherical element in the Sigma really shows for wide open performance, IMO, that's why the Zeiss was never an option for me. But if you plan on using it more from f 2 on, the Zeiss is a great lens, and you can buy it brand new for a decent price.
Thanks for posting those links, Bogdan. They did show when I googled the lenses but since I had never ventured on that site, I did not read the reviews earlier. Very thorough reviews both, objective and subjective.

The reviews validate what others had told me that VC 50mm f1.1 is a special lens and if I don't need that aperture then it is best to stay with a regular f1.4 lens. I think the VC 50mm f1.1 review does a great job of explaining that while the lens is great in it's own right but does not compare directly with some of the best f1.4 lenses.

Coming to Zeiss Planar 50mm f1.4 vs VC 50mm f/1.5, I have read very positive reviews of both. However, one review site, photozone.de, that I do trust dinged the VC badly in it's rating. I have to admit though that photozone guys seem to be a tough crowd to please.

Personally, I think I like Zeiss's bokeh better but one, bokeh isn't scientific comparison and two, even subjectively comparing bokeh of two lenses is hard unless same picture is taken with both.

http://www.photozone.de/sony-alpha-aps-c-lens-tests/562-voigtlander50f15nex?start=1

So I am going to search around a bit more. Another candidate in the race is the Carl Zeiss 50mm f1.4 for CY mount that is pretty similar to the current Zeiss except for some additional coating and blades (that change bokeh, I guess).

My gut feeling is whichever lens I buy, I am pretty sure I will always wonder what the other would have been like :P
--
Kind regards,

Bogdan
 
If you're any good at reading MTF diagrams, here you have a comparison of fast lenses, SLR and rangefinder counfounded.
http://www.imx.nl/photo/technique/technique/hslenses.html

Of course, these are theoretical MTF, but still, they should say something.

The Leica diagrams seem to show different frequencies (there are 4 pairs) but you can leave aside Leica, as I imagine they're out of most people's financial range anyway.

The CV f 1.5 and the Canon 55mm Asph look better, with the Nikkor Noct and the Zeiss 50mm looking not as good.

--
Kind regards,

Bogdan
 
haha..well, then Ken must be the first troll i like! lol!
btw. regarding to the lenses, i hope you can make the right choice :-)
Jean, your opinion matches with what I have read so far about both lenses. But, Ken Rockwell, really? :) The guy's a well known troll for photography reviews. He reviews equipment he has never seen or touched :P
 
you have to read the EP1 manual though, and keep using the camera for a while (not change to another toy every month or so). AF also works in low light.

I'm mainly interested in taking pictures, not in testing bizarre technical compositions that come with a lot of hassle.

To focus a 095 lens in dim light conditions does not sound enticing to me, esp if there is an alternative available with AF and equal, if not superior reproduction quality.

In the industry they laugh their butts off about the amateurs who love to struggle with dated but superexpensive equipment
http://web.mac.com/kamberm/Leica_M8_Field_Test,_Iraq/Page_1.html
 
Damn! Now, I am all confused :(

Actually, thanks for all those details about lens construction. But I am hesitant about dropping lots of money of older lenses. Those older hand made lenses sure might have "character" but I will any day take a computer designed, mass produced, consistently multi-coated and automatically QA-ed lens :) Also, have the option of returning the lens if I don't like it and get support if I keep it.

Btw, I put on a Sears 55mm f1.4 lens on the E-PL1 and it is fun. Now I really want a nice fast/ultra-fast lens! :)
 
I am also really mad at Olympus/Panasonic for not making an outstanding fast 50mm lens for m4/3 mount.
 
I also find it surprising that they make slow macro primesbefore making any portrait option, but hey their marketing know best. I'm sure next year we'll see at least one real portrait prime in MFT.

--
Kind regards,

Bogdan
 
To re-cap, in 50mm > =f1.4, the options are:

A-spherical:
  • Leica Summilux 50 f1.4 ($4k)
  • Canon FD SSC 55mm f1.2 AL ($2k)
  • Noct-Nikkor 58mm f/1.2 ($3k)
  • Canon 50mm f1.2 L ($1600)
  • Voigtlander Nokton 50mm f1.1 ($1k)
  • Sigma AF 50mm f/1.4 EX DG HSM ($500)
  • Voigtlander Nokton 50mm f/1.5 ($600)
Spherical or non-aspherical are too many to list but every major mount offers a quality 50mm f1.4 along with reputable brands like Zeiss that offer a MF lens for Canon, Nikon, and Pentax.
 
Damn! Now, I am all confused :(

Actually, thanks for all those details about lens construction. But I am hesitant about dropping lots of money of older lenses. Those older hand made lenses sure might have "character" but I will any day take a computer designed, mass produced, consistently multi-coated and automatically QA-ed lens :) Also, have the option of returning the lens if I don't like it and get support if I keep it.

Btw, I put on a Sears 55mm f1.4 lens on the E-PL1 and it is fun. Now I really want a nice fast/ultra-fast lens! :)
Well, these old lenses are multicoated and mass produced. They not only have a character, in IQ they are not far behind modern medium tier lenses such as 20mm f1.7. Btw, I'm talking about the garden variety f1.4 lenses, not asphericals. Overall I am not that impressed by advantages of computer designed lenses, while the advantages of real aperture and focusing rings IMO are very obvious. As for returns, older lenses come with free return no question asked option, it's called ebay.

I agree with you, however, about dropping lots of money on lenses. There is a law of diminishing returns. These garden variety f1.4 lenses offer a pretty decent IQ for 30 Euros. Ashericals offer a slightly better IQ for 600 Euros. If your livelihood depends on it, then sure aspherical makes sense. But for most of us these are toys, and I'd rather buy 20 good toys for 30 Euros each than one super-duper-mega-toy for 600 Euros.
 

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