Need Advice on Best External Flash

I've read several threads on the 433D and the SB-28DX and I am still confused. I need a powerful flash to work with my 990 for indoor photography (I take pictures of rodeo events at indoor arenas) Any advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks.

-Todd

Hi Todd,

At least with the CP990 and the CP950 the SunPak 433 series (the AF model's added features are not used with the CoolPix series), when used in the TTY mode, has a tendancy to overpower subjects for macro and close-up work (less than around 8 feet from the subject) unless you're using filters or bouncing. It appears to do fine as-is in it's own automatic modes with aperatures under F/8. Distances potentially up to 60 feet should be illuminated nicely in any mode.

The advantage of the Nikon SB-28 series (the DX model's added features are not used with the CoolPix series) is that it also appears to work well with macro and close-up work without any filters or bouncing.

The difference appears to be that the SunPak 433 series doesn't squelch its flash as quickly as the Nikon SB-28 does.

I've got the SunPak 433AF and the SunPak Filter Kit and am very happy with the results. I have recently started using the ND4 and #20 diffuser filters up to about 10 feet from my subjects in the TTL mode, and with these filters I have no problem in the close-up or macro modes. I consider the 433AF with the Filter Kit to be a great value.

To be clear, though, if your need is primarily closeup and macro work, I wouldn't recommend this flash unless you also use filters or unless you perfect a bouncing technique with it.

I took the following image two days ago using the 990 in fully automatic mode and the 433AF with the ND4 and #20 diffuser filters, in the TTL mode. The distance from the subject was about 3 feet.



I took the following image 3 days ago using the 990 in fully automatic mode and the 433AF with no filters, in the TTL mode. The distance from the subject was about 30 feet.



There are also plenty of very satisfied Nikon SB-28 (and SB-28DX) users out there and hopefully we'll hear from some of them, as well as users of some of the many other flash units that will also work with the CoolPix series.

Best regards,

-- Don Hergert

=================================

Todd said:

I've read several threads on the 433D and the SB-28DX and I am still
confused. I need a powerful flash to work with my 990 for indoor
photography (I take pictures of rodeo events at indoor arenas) Any
advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks.

-Todd

Click to expand...

Todd -

I bought the Nikon SB-28 for my 990 and was blown away by it's ability to rapidly quench in TTL mode (quasi TTL on the 990). I was a little concerned that I'd overkilled so I bought a Metz 40AF-4N to try (exactly half the price and only slightly lower GN). To make a long story short, the Metz is going back because compared to the Nikon, it totally overexposes the subject at close range, even when bounced. 'At close range' in my test case was about 4 feet. I really wanted the Metz to work but it doesn't appear to quench fast enough for the 990.

Anyway, despite the cost I'm sticking with the SB-28 - the bottom line for me was the quality of lighting for the kind of photos I tend to take. As far as the SB-28DX goes, I think it's even more expensive than the 28 and none of the extra features (designed for the D1) are usable on the 990.

hope this helps,

Shaun

Todd said:

I've read several threads on the 433D and the SB-28DX and I am still
confused. I need a powerful flash to work with my 990 for indoor
photography (I take pictures of rodeo events at indoor arenas) Any
advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks.

-Todd

Click to expand...

As Shaun mentions, the Nikon SB-28 flash is very versatile....working at close range and at further distances with nary a problem. For a less expensive solution you could consider buying a used Nikon flash. You can find the flashes that came before the SB-28, the SB-24, SB-25 and SB-26 for less than $250 used. They will all work as well with the 9xx as the SB-28.

For a third party solution, the 433D works with the 9xx as long as you are willing to switch the camera to aperature priority mode for shots inside of 5 feet and move to a smaller aperature F5.6 or F8 is usually adequate. You can get 433D's for as little as $80.

I'm no expert with sport photography but generally you want as much power as you can get. The 433D is GN 120 and the Nikon's are GN 112. In order to concentrate its flash out at 30 feet you will need to buy a lens kit for the 433D because it doesn't have a zoom lens. These would probably be considered a little on the weak side by sport photography standards. You might want to consider getting a handle mount Sunpak, Metz or Quantum. I use a Sunpak 555 (GN 150) with my 950 and I'm impressed with how well it works across the whole range of distances (but it is a big beastly thing.)

Good luck,
Danny

Shaun Granleese said:

I bought the Nikon SB-28 for my 990 and was blown away by it's ability to
rapidly quench in TTL mode (quasi TTL on the 990). I was a little
concerned that I'd overkilled so I bought a Metz 40AF-4N to try (exactly
half the price and only slightly lower GN). To make a long story short,
the Metz is going back because compared to the Nikon, it totally
overexposes the subject at close range, even when bounced. 'At close
range' in my test case was about 4 feet. I really wanted the Metz to work
but it doesn't appear to quench fast enough for the 990.

Anyway, despite the cost I'm sticking with the SB-28 - the bottom line
for me was the quality of lighting for the kind of photos I tend to take.
As far as the SB-28DX goes, I think it's even more expensive than the 28
and none of the extra features (designed for the D1) are usable on the
990.

hope this helps,

Shaun

Todd said:

I've read several threads on the 433D and the SB-28DX and I am still
confused. I need a powerful flash to work with my 990 for indoor
photography (I take pictures of rodeo events at indoor arenas) Any
advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks.

-Todd

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

I think Dan, Shawn and Don have all given you excellent advice. Since I own both flashes, let me tell you that if I had to pick just one, I'd definitely go with the SB-28.

Yes, it's considerably more expensive, but in addition to the advantages already mentioned, let me tell you that it will shoot in continuous mode as fast as your 990 will, a definite advantage in sports photography. The Sunpak is a nice secondary flash (which is why I bought it) but I'd never consider it as my sole 990 flash.

However, it's already pointed out that you may need more power than either of these two, so you might also want to consider one of the other flashes mentioned. Just be aware that you'll probably not want to use that particular flash in certain situations (IOW, there's no such thing as a perfect "general" flash -- however, the SB-28 is probably the best overall compromise currently available).

Thank You all for your advice, it has been very helpful. I think I am going to spend the money and get the SB-28. I dinfintely need a flash that can keep up with the continuos mode of the 990, and one that can effectively work from 2 ft to 60 ft.

Thanks again,

-Todd

Todd said:

I've read several threads on the 433D and the SB-28DX and I am still
confused. I need a powerful flash to work with my 990 for indoor
photography (I take pictures of rodeo events at indoor arenas) Any
advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks.

-Todd

Click to expand...

The recycle time of flashes is controlled mainly by the ability of the power supply to deliver current. A Sunpak 433D filled with NiMh's will recycle as fast as a Nikon SB-28 with NiMh's...either can easilly keep up with the camera for normal flash pulses.

The biggest advantage of the SB-28 over the Sunpak 433D is its ability to produce a smaller flash pulse. This allows it to work inside the range where you would have to apply countermeasures to the 433D to avoid overexposing (such as manually setting a smaller aperature.) Also, the Nikon has many more f-stop choices in auto and manual modes and can be stopped down to 1/64 power vs. the 1/16 power of the Sunpak.

The biggest advantage of the SB-28 over the previous generation SB-24/25/26 is its weight and size. The SB-28 runs 12 ounces...which is a few ounces lighter than previous generations...but still a pretty good size compared the the 9xx itself. If I were getting a Nikon flash to purely use with the 9xx I'd go for the least expensive used SB-24 or the SB-22s (which is still pretty powerful at GN=92.)

The SB-22s is considerably lighter at 8 ounces or so.

Mike Kelley said:

I think Dan, Shawn and Don have all given you excellent advice. Since I
own both flashes, let me tell you that if I had to pick just one, I'd
definitely go with the SB-28.

Yes, it's considerably more expensive, but in addition to the advantages
already mentioned, let me tell you that it will shoot in continuous mode
as fast as your 990 will, a definite advantage in sports photography.
The Sunpak is a nice secondary flash (which is why I bought it) but I'd
never consider it as my sole 990 flash.

However, it's already pointed out that you may need more power than
either of these two, so you might also want to consider one of the other
flashes mentioned. Just be aware that you'll probably not want to use
that particular flash in certain situations (IOW, there's no such thing
as a perfect "general" flash -- however, the SB-28 is probably the best
overall compromise currently available).

Click to expand...

The other thing I like about the Nikons for closer work is their ability to tilt the flash downward. This is great for macro work (as long as the flash is located close to inline with the lens.)

Daniel Lauring said:

The recycle time of flashes is controlled mainly by the ability of the
power supply to deliver current. A Sunpak 433D filled with NiMh's will
recycle as fast as a Nikon SB-28 with NiMh's...either can easilly keep up
with the camera for normal flash pulses.

The biggest advantage of the SB-28 over the Sunpak 433D is its ability to
produce a smaller flash pulse. This allows it to work inside the range
where you would have to apply countermeasures to the 433D to avoid
overexposing (such as manually setting a smaller aperature.) Also, the
Nikon has many more f-stop choices in auto and manual modes and can be
stopped down to 1/64 power vs. the 1/16 power of the Sunpak.

The biggest advantage of the SB-28 over the previous generation
SB-24/25/26 is its weight and size. The SB-28 runs 12 ounces...which is
a few ounces lighter than previous generations...but still a pretty good
size compared the the 9xx itself. If I were getting a Nikon flash to
purely use with the 9xx I'd go for the least expensive used SB-24 or the
SB-22s (which is still pretty powerful at GN=92.)

The SB-22s is considerably lighter at 8 ounces or so.

Click to expand...

Daniel Lauring said:

The recycle time of flashes is controlled mainly by the ability of the
power supply to deliver current. A Sunpak 433D filled with NiMh's will
recycle as fast as a Nikon SB-28 with NiMh's...either can easilly keep up
with the camera for normal flash pulses.

Click to expand...

I think you're wrong, Dan -- I certainly can't get my 433D to cycle as fast as the SB-28 (and it cannot absolutely do the 30 flashes per second the SB-28 does, regardless of power source, as per the 433 documentation).

This is with fresh batteries (NiMHs) in both -- perhaps with AC power it's a different story (at least at the continuous mode 990 shooting speeds).

In my the Metz 40AF experiment I did last night, I specifically examined the recharge time with identical batteries from a full pop. Even though the SB-28 has a higher GN and in my simplistic reasoning must be using more energy, it is ready to fire in just a little over half the time of the Metz (6 seconds versus about 10).

When only a tiny flash is required either unit will keep up with the 990, but I suspect that if near full energy is needed, the 6 second/10 second recharge will become critical.

my opinion is free and well worth it! ;-)

Shaun

Daniel Lauring said:

The biggest advantage of the SB-28 over the Sunpak 433D is its ability to
produce a smaller flash pulse. This allows it to work inside the range
where you would have to apply countermeasures to the 433D to avoid
overexposing (such as manually setting a smaller aperature.) Also, the
Nikon has many more f-stop choices in auto and manual modes and can be
stopped down to 1/64 power vs. the 1/16 power of the Sunpak.

The biggest advantage of the SB-28 over the previous generation
SB-24/25/26 is its weight and size. The SB-28 runs 12 ounces...which is
a few ounces lighter than previous generations...but still a pretty good
size compared the the 9xx itself. If I were getting a Nikon flash to
purely use with the 9xx I'd go for the least expensive used SB-24 or the
SB-22s (which is still pretty powerful at GN=92.)

The SB-22s is considerably lighter at 8 ounces or so.

Mike Kelley said:

I think Dan, Shawn and Don have all given you excellent advice. Since I
own both flashes, let me tell you that if I had to pick just one, I'd
definitely go with the SB-28.

Yes, it's considerably more expensive, but in addition to the advantages
already mentioned, let me tell you that it will shoot in continuous mode
as fast as your 990 will, a definite advantage in sports photography.
The Sunpak is a nice secondary flash (which is why I bought it) but I'd
never consider it as my sole 990 flash.

However, it's already pointed out that you may need more power than
either of these two, so you might also want to consider one of the other
flashes mentioned. Just be aware that you'll probably not want to use
that particular flash in certain situations (IOW, there's no such thing
as a perfect "general" flash -- however, the SB-28 is probably the best
overall compromise currently available).

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

30 flashes per second, eh....that is cooking and way above anything the 9xx could use. Within the Nikon 990's abilities do you see a real world instance where the 433D can't keep up with the camera? I haven't yet, but perhaps you've found a way in your application. What is the specification for a full flash recharge for the SB-28. I recall it was similar to the spec for the 433...perhaps I am mistaken.

When I get my SB-25 I'll run some comparisons. From what I've read, the capabilities of the SB-25 should be equal to the SB-28 in strength and recycle rate. The SB-28 supports some new exposure metering and other non9xx stuff that the SB-25 does not.

Mike Kelley said:

Daniel Lauring said:

The recycle time of flashes is controlled mainly by the ability of the
power supply to deliver current. A Sunpak 433D filled with NiMh's will
recycle as fast as a Nikon SB-28 with NiMh's...either can easilly keep up
with the camera for normal flash pulses.

Click to expand...

I think you're wrong, Dan -- I certainly can't get my 433D to cycle as
fast as the SB-28 (and it cannot absolutely do the 30 flashes per second
the SB-28 does, regardless of power source, as per the 433 documentation).

This is with fresh batteries (NiMHs) in both -- perhaps with AC power
it's a different story (at least at the continuous mode 990 shooting
speeds).

Click to expand...

My opinion is free and worth even less

I recall timing the recharge rate for the 433 and finding it was around 7 seconds which was similar to the specs for it. I'll rerun the test against my SB-25.

This could very well be one more reason to invest in the genuine Nikon article. If I had just bought the Nikon right off the bat I could have saved myself all this messing around with these Sunpaks. Ahhh, but I'm an engineer. We love experimenting and we are notoriously cheap.

Shaun Granleese said:

When only a tiny flash is required either unit will keep up with the 990,
but I suspect that if near full energy is needed, the 6 second/10 second
recharge will become critical.

my opinion is free and well worth it! ;-)

Shaun

Daniel Lauring said:

The biggest advantage of the SB-28 over the Sunpak 433D is its ability to
produce a smaller flash pulse. This allows it to work inside the range
where you would have to apply countermeasures to the 433D to avoid
overexposing (such as manually setting a smaller aperature.) Also, the
Nikon has many more f-stop choices in auto and manual modes and can be
stopped down to 1/64 power vs. the 1/16 power of the Sunpak.

The biggest advantage of the SB-28 over the previous generation
SB-24/25/26 is its weight and size. The SB-28 runs 12 ounces...which is
a few ounces lighter than previous generations...but still a pretty good
size compared the the 9xx itself. If I were getting a Nikon flash to
purely use with the 9xx I'd go for the least expensive used SB-24 or the
SB-22s (which is still pretty powerful at GN=92.)

The SB-22s is considerably lighter at 8 ounces or so.

Mike Kelley said:

I think Dan, Shawn and Don have all given you excellent advice. Since I
own both flashes, let me tell you that if I had to pick just one, I'd
definitely go with the SB-28.

Yes, it's considerably more expensive, but in addition to the advantages
already mentioned, let me tell you that it will shoot in continuous mode
as fast as your 990 will, a definite advantage in sports photography.
The Sunpak is a nice secondary flash (which is why I bought it) but I'd
never consider it as my sole 990 flash.

However, it's already pointed out that you may need more power than
either of these two, so you might also want to consider one of the other
flashes mentioned. Just be aware that you'll probably not want to use
that particular flash in certain situations (IOW, there's no such thing
as a perfect "general" flash -- however, the SB-28 is probably the best
overall compromise currently available).

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Daniel Lauring said:

30 flashes per second, eh....that is cooking and way above anything the
9xx could use. Within the Nikon 990's abilities do you see a real world
instance where the 433D can't keep up with the camera? I haven't yet,
but perhaps you've found a way in your application. What is the
specification for a full flash recharge for the SB-28. I recall it was
similar to the spec for the 433...perhaps I am mistaken.

Click to expand...

I don't have manuals at hand so I can't tell you -- if I think of it (yeah, right) I'll bring them to work tomorrow. However, there are some real world applications of even the 30 per second flash -- you can do multi-strobe pictures with the 990 and the SB-28. I haven't tried them yet, but I suspect they'll be interesting.

The cycle times of either flash vary with output, as I'm sure you know, but the 433 is particularly slow when it comes to full output mode. At that rate it takes it about twice as long to cycle as the SB-28, and certainly will not keep up with the five shots per second the 990 is capable of (in standard, full res mode, which is where I do all my shooting). I'm lucky if I can get two flashes out of it in at that power setting, whereas the SB-28 easily smokes this.

I like both flashes, but my 433 is strictly used as a fill flash. In that capacity it operates admirably.