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A700 Revisited....

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mzd said:
They also never said that they will not released an OVF SLR along with the SLT. And honestly, what does make a DSLR an advance Amateur model or a pro model? The OVF?
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They haven't said lots of things. Do you think they are launching their own Mars probe? They haven't said they aren't.

Why must you constantly defend Sony and attack anyone who criticizes Sony decisions?
 
mzd said:
tom said:
mzd said:
Actually Sony never said that they'll stop the OVF. And they did release 2 OVF cameras along with the SLT's. But Walt complains, all day, all time in almost every SLT posts. And if Sony comes up with 2 versions of the a700 replacement, one with EVF and one with OVF, Walt is going to start saying all other the net, that Sony did this because of him, because of Walt. It's just all about himself and his arrogance.
--

When your current system does not satisfy you, it is better to switch than to cry and whine on the forums.
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Mr.Cybershot-san did say that the A700 replacement would be SLT. After that they would evaluate the FF market and decide what to do. I hope he was misquoted, but there has never been any clarification from Sony, and their country managers keep saying the same thing.
tom
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They also never said that they will not released an OVF SLR along with the SLT. And honestly, what does make a DSLR an advance Amateur model or a pro model? The OVF?
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The managers from 3 countries said - no OVF. Managers of Japanese companies don't make such definitive comments (and stay managers) unless it is the company line or they add qualifiers like "it's only my opinion..." which they did not.

There are a number of features that make a camera suitable for me , and I don't care if it is called a supersonic special or not. The 5 level isn't it for reasons I've posted before. An SLT isn't it because I don't want to deal with an exposed angled piece of stuff in the optical path that I will have to clean (against Sony's recommendations) and which does affect image quality in some circumstances. I don't plan to spend $1k+ on a camera that is good for somethings but questionable for others. And an SLT offers me no advantages to make up for its issues.

If the A77 had PDAF on the main sensor, that would be an advancement and would eliminate the main issue I have with SLT. But then we come to the EVF.

Re the OVF v EVF, I will continue to try advanced EVFs in the store, but I do not enjoy using the EVF cameras I have tried or that I own compared with my OVF cameras. When I read the posts from people who have tried the A33/55 EVF and like it, there is always some qualifier ("but this", and "not that good in this but I could adjust", etc.)

So the A33/55 EVF isn't there yet (for me), although I know that there will be a great advance before the A77 comes out (My moneys on a micro black hole EVF that will shift time just enough that the EVF image will be slightly before reality to allow for any slight delay in the camera functions. Maybe it will even be adjustable to account for the longer delay with flash -preflash metering, although that would probably have to wait for the A99.)

tom
 
Samsolar said:
I am not selecting you out only responding to your statement nor am I claiming everyone shares my view or at lest I hope they don't.
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I see, that explains why you spoke specifically to me by calling me by name in your post. Must have been some other Walt

Walt
 
Lyle From Canada said:
So the choice is yours, but dont expect Sony to change its plans for you, they would be fools to do so.
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Which is the same as saying you are for SLT because you think Sony would be fools to make a replacement high quality OVF DSLR to replace the a700, and continue to support that line. That leaves only SLT.

Or maybe you are for NEX only instead?

Walt
 
evangelos k said:
jimb100 said:
No, its clear that you don't get it. Photography is unlike washing machines or TV sets or CD players.

The customer and the manufacturer share a bond. There is an investment in a system and a trust in the manufacturer.
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Please... What else, do you exchange Valentine Cards with the manufactures to strengthen the bond? :D
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You continue to use the A mount system in this case and continue to add/replace parts of your A mount system as your needs grow. And the manufacturer continues to make the parts (including camera bodies) that you can buy.

Try to be just a little adult and logical. Such childish statements reflect badly on you.

Walt
 
jimb100 said:
Some of us are open-minded enough to wait and see (even though we might say we prefer an OVF, but based only on what we know about existing, not future, technology).

So foolish. Being "open minded" and "wait and see" have very little to do with each other.
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Why? I am open-minded about what Sony will bring us to replace the A700 and I'm prepared to wait until I've seen that product before making any decisions.

What is foolish about waiting before pronouncing judgement on a camera that no-one has yet seen?
jimb100 said:
All it would take is for Sony to articulate their plans for advanced amateurs and pros.
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They have
jimb100 said:
We all know what Canon and Nikon will do.
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Where do you get your supply of crystal balls?
 
WaltKnapp said:
You continue to use the A mount system in this case and continue to add/replace parts of your A mount system as your needs grow.
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But why would any sane person continue to do so when they had predicted no replacement for the A700 in particular, and the demise of Sony's interest in DSLRs in general?
 
evangelos k said:
dlkeller said:
Walt and several others here at least have a stake in our complaints and please to Sony to continue the A700 OVF legacy. I don't understand your stake in this. You evidently are getting the SLT cameras you want. If Walt is wrong and Sony continues to offer high end OVF cameras I'm sure he will be very happy about it, as will I. Would that adversely affect you in any way other than seeing Walt pleased?
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Will he? Can you explain to me this:

You do not like the direction SONY is going.. OK.

You want OVF... OK

What does bashing the SLT has to do with it? And more importantly, what do you think someone will accomplish by simply making up BS and spreading false rumors about "Lack of contrast on every SLT picture"?

I am sorry, I see 0 credibility in someone posting the above lies (simply, that's what it is) in every forum he visits to accomplish what? Make the SLT look bad so SONY will go back to OVF?
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Maybe getting people to actually look at the photos, I'm not telling lies, those that say the SLT is not compromised are. Nor am I "bashing" SLT, I've not hit a single one of them with a hammer or any other tool of destruction. I've taken time to logically and carefully look at what the camera is, and what it is not. And stated my opinion.

I would not state my opinion so strongly if Sony had not communicated in numerous ways that they are going to make SLT their only design. That is what makes it my business what the SLT is. I do not want SLT to be Sony's only design. But only one of choices, all of which are supported an R&D continues to support and improve.

Walt
 
WaltKnapp said:
evangelos k said:
dlkeller said:
Walt and several others here at least have a stake in our complaints and please to Sony to continue the A700 OVF legacy. I don't understand your stake in this. You evidently are getting the SLT cameras you want. If Walt is wrong and Sony continues to offer high end OVF cameras I'm sure he will be very happy about it, as will I. Would that adversely affect you in any way other than seeing Walt pleased?
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Will he? Can you explain to me this:

You do not like the direction SONY is going.. OK.

You want OVF... OK

What does bashing the SLT has to do with it? And more importantly, what do you think someone will accomplish by simply making up BS and spreading false rumors about "Lack of contrast on every SLT picture"?

I am sorry, I see 0 credibility in someone posting the above lies (simply, that's what it is) in every forum he visits to accomplish what? Make the SLT look bad so SONY will go back to OVF?
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Maybe getting people to actually look at the photos, I'm not telling lies, those that say the SLT is not compromised are.
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WaltKnapp said:
Walt
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So you see what NOT a single reviewer did, and NO used has... And you insist.

Don't know what is worse... Imagining things about lack of contrast and inaccurate AF (or seeing what you want to see or what SHOULD be - but it is NOT - there according to your "studies") or making it up.

No matter what, credibility goes down the drain.
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/evangelos_k/
 
beakydave said:
WaltKnapp said:
You continue to use the A mount system in this case and continue to add/replace parts of your A mount system as your needs grow.
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But why would any sane person continue to do so when they had predicted no replacement for the A700 in particular, and the demise of Sony's interest in DSLRs in general?
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Because I and others have a interest in that not being the route Sony goes. And most certainly have a right to communicate my opinion on that any way I can. A opinion based on just what Sony says and does. Just as SLT advocates keep repeating their opinion far more times than I do. And giving out misleading information to try and promote the SLT. Some of which I try to correct.

I also am an active photographer, frequently out engaging in photography at multiple levels it's not slowed down. The resolution of where Sony's going could take years. I'm not shutting down my photography to wait, or taking a big economic hit until it's essential. For now my most economic course is to continue with my a700s and hope there is a resolution before they become unrepairable. I have cut way back on buying from Sony but as long as I use the A mount system my cost is not zero. Last lens purchase will soon be a year ago, last flash purchase over a year ago. Last new a700 also nearly a year ago. Last a700 major repair just on a year ago, last lens repair well over a year ago. Nearly all my large A mount system was acquired some time ago.

It is still possible that Sony can be influenced to offer choice. Their waffling about going only SLT in FF and actually asking (through SAR) what people want at that level says so. So it's still very appropriate to take a stand on the issue at the a700 level as well even though hope is just about gone for the A mount system.

Walt
 
Gil Knutson said:
(It would be pointless to get responses from non-A700 buyers here, I think..... )

Just for the heck of it, I went back and read the review on here... DPReview... on the A700. That was a pretty darned good review. Phil rated it very highly. I was just wondering how much that review influenced anyones purchase of the camera. I guess there is really no way of knowing, because many probably don't habitually frequent this site really... but just for fun, I can ask here:

Did the A700 review on the DPReview site affect any of your buying decisions of the camera? *
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Coming from 5D I was likely to stay with that line and the review made it very clear it was the direction to go. The nearest rival (Nikon D300) was twice the price and only marginally better but without SSS.
Gil Knutson said:
Also, I wonder what those folks NOW think of their buying decision... did the A700 live up to your expectations?
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A superb camera.
Gil Knutson said:
And last, what are your future plans with Sony?
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Depends on Sony. If they abandon the enthusiast amateur market I'll (reluctantly) go elsewhere. I would not rule out the A77 with EVF as an option. But I can wait - prefer Sony to get it right rather than rush and make a mess. After all, the A700 is pretty d* good!
Gil Knutson said:
The answers would be somewhat instructive as to this websites "effectiveness" in the marketplace....

--
Gil
Sardis, BC
Canada
--
Gil
Sardis, BC
Canada
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--
Sandy
 
beakydave said:
Why? I am open-minded about what Sony will bring us to replace the A700 and I'm prepared to wait until I've seen that product before making any decisions.
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By which point it will be entirely too late to change anything, even for Sony. When they are deciding what they will build and designing it there is still some chance of making needed changes in their direction.
beakydave said:
What is foolish about waiting before pronouncing judgement on a camera that no-one has yet seen?
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It makes your judgment count for nothing and change nothing. It's non participation. It's fatalistic. It's being "open minded" with head in the sand. And it's not planning ahead.

And Sony has communicated the core information about the design. We do know what the SLT is and have pretty clear ideas what limitations there are. And will continue to fall within the patents Sony filed.
beakydave said:
beakydave said:
All it would take is for Sony to articulate their plans for advanced amateurs and pros.
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They have
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And that's ending advanced OVF DSLR. A decision that could still be changed without years of waiting for the reversal away from SLT. Though it's probably already too late for a proper a700 replacement anytime soon. And one can expect that most of Sony's FF R&D is also being devoted to SLT even if they do produce a int-rem OVF DSLR there, something they have not solidly committed to.

Walt
 
evangelos k said:
Tell me exactly how Walt is doing what you said by making up BS and spreading lies. Please do because you did not even come close to answer my very specific question.... unless you thing making up BS is for the good of the "advanced" amateurs, and spreading lies in every forum is to "protect" us from SONY's evil decision.
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It is your opinion that it's BS or lies. Misinformation you are giving out to support your position.

I don't think Sony considers it BS or lies. I expect they have a section of their SLT R&D trying to fix the basic physics problem that a too thick slanted mirror in the optical path creates. Good luck to them on beating their head against pretty basic physics of light that they so clearly thought was good enough. Not evil, but poor design that they did not fully consider. Or consider just how picky photographers can be.

Very similar to how they thought the original a100 and a700 firmware was perfect for noise control.

Walt
 
tom said:
mzd said:
Actually Sony never said that they'll stop the OVF. And they did release 2 OVF cameras along with the SLT's. But Walt complains, all day, all time in almost every SLT posts. And if Sony comes up with 2 versions of the a700 replacement, one with EVF and one with OVF, Walt is going to start saying all other the net, that Sony did this because of him, because of Walt. It's just all about himself and his arrogance.
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Sorry, I don't have time or energy to complain all day about anything. And certainly not in EVERY SLT post. In case you did not notice, btw, this tread is about the a700, which is most definitely not a SLT.

I'm hardly the only person complaining about Sony's direction.

If the mythology in here about me were even close to true instead of outright lies, I'd outdo superman.
tom55604 said:
tom55604 said:
When your current system does not satisfy you, it is better to switch than to cry and whine on the forums.
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My current a700 OVF DSLR A mount system does satisfy me. I'm campaining to be able to keep using that type of system in the future. To have that CHOICE!
tom55604 said:
Mr.Cybershot-san did say that the A700 replacement would be SLT. After that they would evaluate the FF market and decide what to do. I hope he was misquoted, but there has never been any clarification from Sony, and their country managers keep saying the same thing.
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He also at the same time made several belittling statements about OVF, paralleling stuff said by EVF/LV advocates. Since those were in direct transcripts of his statements and repeated in sections of Sony's own websites I don't think he was misquoted. And certainly represent his attitude.

And even in FF there has been no firm guarantee from Sony that they will produce another OVF, they are still "deciding" by their own statements.

Walt
 
WaltKnapp said:
evangelos k said:
Tell me exactly how Walt is doing what you said by making up BS and spreading lies. Please do because you did not even come close to answer my very specific question.... unless you thing making up BS is for the good of the "advanced" amateurs, and spreading lies in every forum is to "protect" us from SONY's evil decision.
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It is your opinion that it's BS or lies. Misinformation you are giving out to support your position.

I don't think Sony considers it BS or lies. I expect they have a section of their SLT R&D trying to fix the basic physics problem that a too thick slanted mirror in the optical path creates. Good luck to them on beating their head against pretty basic physics of light that they so clearly thought was good enough. Not evil, but poor design that they did not fully consider. Or consider just how picky photographers can be.

Very similar to how they thought the original a100 and a700 firmware was perfect for noise control.

Walt
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I guess not even the side by side comparison and all the great samples will do it for you - just b/c you decided what it should be and how.

I do not give a damn about physics theories IF there are NOT visible results... and there ARE NOT any visible results about lack of contrast and inaccurate AF... according to all reviewers and all users... Oh, and samples too... thousands of them by now. The SLT puts your a700 to shame IQ-wise like it or not.
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/evangelos_k/
 
tom wrote:

My moneys on a micro black hole EVF that will shift time just enough that the EVF image will be slightly before reality to allow for any slight delay in the camera functions. Maybe it will even be adjustable to account for the longer delay with flash -preflash metering, although that would probably have to wait for the A99

That is a pretty good description of what's necessary in just one aspect of a viewfinder to bring the EVF up to Pentaprism OVF standards in that aspect alone. And what a lot of folks think is coming with the a77.

Then there is the other aspects that would need drastic improvement :-)

Personally I want to see preflash metering go away and get back more to the OTF style flash metering which my first DSLR had. If Sony is such a technologic wiz that should be trivial for one of their engineers to pull off with both hands tied behind his back ;-)

Walt
 
No Walt just trying to be folkesy and friendly. I am not attacking you nor you ideas though some have. I don't agree with you on anything other than the A700 is a great camera and I have been very happy with it.

Using a name in the midwest is showing respect
 
So you shoot at a higher level than a pro, understand physics better than Sony engineers, can see in to the future, hell, you must be Batman.
WaltKnapp said:
evangelos k said:
Tell me exactly how Walt is doing what you said by making up BS and spreading lies. Please do because you did not even come close to answer my very specific question.... unless you thing making up BS is for the good of the "advanced" amateurs, and spreading lies in every forum is to "protect" us from SONY's evil decision.
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It is your opinion that it's BS or lies. Misinformation you are giving out to support your position.

I don't think Sony considers it BS or lies. I expect they have a section of their SLT R&D trying to fix the basic physics problem that a too thick slanted mirror in the optical path creates. Good luck to them on beating their head against pretty basic physics of light that they so clearly thought was good enough. Not evil, but poor design that they did not fully consider. Or consider just how picky photographers can be.

Very similar to how they thought the original a100 and a700 firmware was perfect for noise control.

Walt
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--

Sony a700 - Minolta 24/2.8 - Sony 35/1.8 - Sony 50/1.8 - Zeiss 16-80 - tamron 70-200/2.8 - extension tubes - Kenko teleplus300 1.4TC - HVL42 (x3)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lylegenykphotography/
 
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