which m4/3 gear for weddings? help needed

hello, im planning on doing weddings with my girlfriend (i now its risky that is why i will make some free trial jobs with brides that woudlnt have money to pay one)

i have an e-pl1 + e-p1 camera but e-pl1 will be main camera because of wireless flash and manual video controls and the real time highlight and shadow zebra
+ flash olympus fl-36r
polarizer hoya HD

lens

panasonic lumix 20mm f1.7
mzuiko.kit lens 14-42mm
m.zuiko 14-150mm lens

some light modifiers (stofen, strobella on the way, probably ring flash for outdoors (for interiors is strobella with very high ceiling and with ceiling stofen or probably a mini softbox)

im planning on buying panasonic gh-2 +14-42mm lens for video and stills with low light

metz 48-af1 flash with a cord to link it to panasonic camera (why no wireless flash panasonic?)

hague mini motion stabilizer for video

i already have one extra olympus battery so i have 3 for one camera (e-pl1) and would buy more 2 for the panasonic camera

would this combo do A3 wedding album like pictures with good quality? if someone has done something of the kind that have printed could you tell me your limits at high iso?

when olympus launches a fast portrait prime/macro lens i will buy it
would buy many AA batterys and SD cards + lightroom 3

would i need a macro lens for details like rings?

wideangle of 28mm is enough

would like some comments and critics to my project (it will be to have some money from photography because i have a main job and my girlfriend has too( she will be the second photographer or probably first since she has better eyes than me)

which material would you advise me to buy ?

i dont want answers like : you could never do it with success with m43 (autofocus speed is good to me and if i have enough good shots according to a couple expectations its what counts);

or answers like buy a canon or nikon with 24-70mm f2.8 lenses and such (those with backup bodys would be 5000 euros and more which is beyond my budget)

thanks

If you're serious about doing weddings professionally, none of the Olympus m4:3's cameras are suitable. You need to go get a professional level full frame or APS-C camera or invest in an Olympus E-3 or E-5. Or something like that. If you show up at a wedding with a little EPL-1, you won't get many jobs.

The FL-36, while a fine & flexible flash, is too slow (recycle time) and probably not powerful enough. I know this because I've had one for many years and used it with my dSLR Oly 4/3's cameras before I sold all of them.

I'm not criticizing the cameras at all, but you need to get the right tool for the job.
--



http://s176.photobucket.com/albums/w177/mfurst_photos/Surmang%20and%20Yushu%202009/?albumview=slideshow

I'm guessing unless you specialize in shooting reportage style weddings, you'll not get much work as the previous poster mentioned. A strictly m43rds system is really not up to the job of shooting a full wedding professionally.

--
John
Pentax K20D/K-x, Panasonic G1/ZS1/LZ8, Oly Pen E-P1/Stylus
WSSA #141PX

I'm not supporting what I'm about to propose. There are better systems out there for this. But I will say that if I tried to put something together with m43 gear, I might go down the following path.

GH2 body
Oly 14-54 mkII with 43 to m43 adapter. It should focus fast enough on GH2
Panny 45-200mm or Oly 50-200 43rds
20mm f1.7
Manual focus 85mm f1.4
2 Oly FL50Rs
Panny LX5 for the ring shot macros, other macro/close-ups
LVF-2 for the EPL1
Lightroom 3

practice, practice, practice,..., be a 2nd or 3rd or 4th shooter for someone else...

--
SLOtographer
Panasonic G1, LX5

I'd also add a remote release and a good, solid tripod for the group shots and for the video as well.

--
John
Pentax K20D/K-x, Panasonic G1/ZS1/LZ8, Oly Pen E-P1/Stylus
WSSA #141PX

why a 85mm is that a focal lenght used in cerimony because of subject to couple distance?

a 50mm wont do it?

if i buy a 14-54 i might as well buy a 50mm olympus f2 4/3 lens since the adapter is the same

buy the way does the leica 14-50mm works with CD-AF ?

its a shame panasonic doesnt have the rumoured 12-75 lens that would make it possible

a tripod would allow 1/50 shutter speeds at iso3200 and f2 ?this wihtout flash but if there is flash allowed it should be used

im thinking of doing free weddings 2 or 3 to see if my skill is worthy...

in the church i cant bounce flash so would have to use some mini umbrella or a diffuser or mini softbox but i dont know if priest allow you to mount softboxes in the church

for video i think i can have very good tools with a stabilizer but for stills ...

i just need a few good images in the church (in the albums i have seen at a wedding expo there where very few full size pictures A3 and few with group shots, most where outside in TTD sessions or in the reception or the bride and groom dressing for the event or with small ddetails

why lx-5?isnt better to buy an olympus 50mm for macro? at least this lens would also be usefull for video in low light and not only macro

I would strongly discourage you from choosing MFT for shooting weddings professionally. Being a wedding photographer (especially just starting out) means being ready for anything that's thrown at you - bad weather, last minute changes in location, indoors in terrible light, outdoors in blinding light, etc.

MFT is a bad choice for a number of reasons:

• Poor high ISO performance
• No fast (f/2.8) AF zooms
• No fast portrait-length primes
• Limited Flash selection
• EVF can be awkward in low light
• Average shooting performance

You really can't count on being able to work around the high ISO limitations of MFT by using a flash - it is very common for venues or officiants to forbid the use of Flash during ceremonies, and it is not uncommon for them to put restrictions on where you can be during the ceremony. I was once banished to a back balcony for a ceremony!

So, do yourself a favor. Just stick to a dSLR while MFT matures as a system. If you need something on the cheap (remember, you should have at least two of everything), the Nikon D7000 would make an excellent choice - great high ISO performance, fantastic shooting performance and a huge range of lenses and flashes to choose from. I personally think the D700 is just about as perfect a wedding photography there is, but you can buy two D7000's for the price of one D700.

--
Sam Bennett - http://www.swiftbennett.com

Sam Bennett said:

I would strongly discourage you from choosing MFT for shooting weddings professionally. Being a wedding photographer (especially just starting out) means being ready for anything that's thrown at you - bad weather, last minute changes in location, indoors in terrible light, outdoors in blinding light, etc.

MFT is a bad choice for a number of reasons:

• Poor high ISO performance
• No fast (f/2.8) AF zooms
• No fast portrait-length primes
• Limited Flash selection
• EVF can be awkward in low light
• Average shooting performance

You really can't count on being able to work around the high ISO limitations of MFT by using a flash - it is very common for venues or officiants to forbid the use of Flash during ceremonies, and it is not uncommon for them to put restrictions on where you can be during the ceremony. I was once banished to a back balcony for a ceremony!

So, do yourself a favor. Just stick to a dSLR while MFT matures as a system. If you need something on the cheap (remember, you should have at least two of everything), the Nikon D7000 would make an excellent choice - great high ISO performance, fantastic shooting performance and a huge range of lenses and flashes to choose from. I personally think the D700 is just about as perfect a wedding photography there is, but you can buy two D7000's for the price of one D700.

--
Sam Bennett - http://www.swiftbennett.com

Click to expand...

Despite me playing along, I agree with Sam. I'd get a D700 and some lenses and SB600. Maybe a 24 2.8, 50 1.8, and 85 1.8 to start + SB600. Or 35 f2 and 70-200 or 80-200 + SB600.

The reason why I put the 85mm 1.4 on the list is that focal length and large aperture is needed to blow out backgrounds and gather light. This is one advantage of FF. The other is low light performance.

Horses for courses...
--
SLOtographer
Panasonic G1, LX5

SLOtographer said:

Despite me playing along, I agree with Sam. I'd get a D700 and some lenses and SB600. Maybe a 24 2.8, 50 1.8, and 85 1.8 to start + SB600. Or 35 f2 and 70-200 or 80-200 + SB600.

Click to expand...

I don't see why you'd mess with primes with the D700 for an event photography setup. One of the great things about shooting FF for event work is that the high ISO performance allows you to shoot with fast zooms while still maintaining relatively shallow DoF. If someone's going the D700 route I would recommend a D700 with the 24-70mm f/2.7G as the main lens, with a 70-200mm f/2.8 for covering the ceremony and for some formals. Grab a SB-900 for outdoor fill, and an SB-700 for indoor fill. Maybe add a wider zoom if you're into unconventional formals or for fun stuff during the reception and a fast prime (50mm) for more intimate shots here and there.

The D7000 (DX) would be a bit of a different ballgame, but I would still encourage a fast mid-range zoom such as the 17-55mm f/2.8 as the main lens, maybe the Sigma 50-150mm f/2.8 as the tele-zoom. You take a hit on DoF, but the convenience of being able to zoom to get the shot outweighs that factor, IMO.

--
Sam Bennett - http://www.swiftbennett.com

Sam Bennett said:

SLOtographer said:

Despite me playing along, I agree with Sam. I'd get a D700 and some lenses and SB600. Maybe a 24 2.8, 50 1.8, and 85 1.8 to start + SB600. Or 35 f2 and 70-200 or 80-200 + SB600.

Click to expand...

I don't see why you'd mess with primes with the D700 for an event photography setup. One of the great things about shooting FF for event work is that the high ISO performance allows you to shoot with fast zooms while still maintaining relatively shallow DoF. If someone's going the D700 route I would recommend a D700 with the 24-70mm f/2.7G as the main lens, with a 70-200mm f/2.8 for covering the ceremony and for some formals. Grab a SB-900 for outdoor fill, and an SB-700 for indoor fill. Maybe add a wider zoom if you're into unconventional formals or for fun stuff during the reception and a fast prime (50mm) for more intimate shots here and there.

The D7000 (DX) would be a bit of a different ballgame, but I would still encourage a fast mid-range zoom such as the 17-55mm f/2.8 as the main lens, maybe the Sigma 50-150mm f/2.8 as the tele-zoom. You take a hit on DoF, but the convenience of being able to zoom to get the shot outweighs that factor, IMO.

--
Sam Bennett - http://www.swiftbennett.com

Click to expand...

You're right of course. I was only thinking in terms of budget constraints that primes might be a way to get the gear rolling for less cash. The two big zooms are about $4K together, but obviously the right choice for events.

Man, now I'm getting gear lust... I better go think about something else
--
SLOtographer
Panasonic G1, LX5

SLOtographer said:

Member said:

I don't see why you'd mess with primes with the D700 for an event photography setup. One of the great things about shooting FF for event work is that the high ISO performance allows you to shoot with fast zooms while still maintaining relatively shallow DoF. If someone's going the D700 route I would recommend a D700 with the 24-70mm f/2.7G as the main lens, with a 70-200mm f/2.8 for covering the ceremony and for some formals. Grab a SB-900 for outdoor fill, and an SB-700 for indoor fill. Maybe add a wider zoom if you're into unconventional formals or for fun stuff during the reception and a fast prime (50mm) for more intimate shots here and there.

The D7000 (DX) would be a bit of a different ballgame, but I would still encourage a fast mid-range zoom such as the 17-55mm f/2.8 as the main lens, maybe the Sigma 50-150mm f/2.8 as the tele-zoom. You take a hit on DoF, but the convenience of being able to zoom to get the shot outweighs that factor, IMO.

Click to expand...

You're right of course. I was only thinking in terms of budget constraints that primes might be a way to get the gear rolling for less cash. The two big zooms are about $4K together, but obviously the right choice for events.

Click to expand...

Well again, I think the D7000 is a great value - that camera is a real game changer, IMO. It really is almost as good noise-wise as the D700. Getting a solid entry-level setup would be much cheaper than going with D700's. Again, I strongly believe you need two cameras (at least) to handle weddings, or else you're inviting catastrophe. So it's not just the cost of one camera, it's two. It's not two lenses, it's four. It all adds up quickly, so going DX has a significant impact in terms of getting into the business in a responsible but still cost-effective manner.

--
Sam Bennett - http://www.swiftbennett.com

Someone here once showed wedding pictures taken by an EPL1 as evidence that m4/3 CAN do wedding. I am not sure if this is the reason why you think you too can do wedding using m4/3. As someone later pointed out, looking at those pictures, it is entirely consistent with the fact that they were taken by someone who is relative inexperienced in wedding photography using the m4/3 system. This is to say that those pictures are not professional. They were high in noise, lack subject isolation, and do not seem to capture any particular moments of interest. This suggests that the camera just struggled to keep up to capture some pictures that are in focus and did not really capture the moment.

As digital photography becomes popular, most people can take snap-shots type of pictures during wedding by themselves, which takes away the jobs of many "casual" professional wedding photographers. Thus it is not easy to stand out from the crowd and you need all the help you can get from the tools. Volunteer to be a second shooter is a good way to learn the job. However if you are a newbie and you show up with a m4/3 camera and then struggled to keep up, people will assume that you are not taking this seriously enough and won't ask you again.

i understand that d7000 is a better camera than gh-2 for stills except probably in mtf values at same megapixel number because of the light AA filter but i dont have a single piece of nikon equipment....well mys sister has a nikon tripod lol

although my sister has a canon film days lens an EXAKTA 28mm to 108mm f2.8-f3.8 which might be passable but i dont know its image quality

photography wont be me full time job i have another that pays the bills to the extent of being able to have good standard of living for a man of my age (28) in my country .

even though i dont want to go past 2000 euros of new equipment (it would be my girlfrind to finance at least half of it lol since i have already bought the equipment listed above)

this would be a way to make some money and we are going for low end market

(i dont want to disrespect people that cant afford a photographer that is expensive but they dont have expectations so high as you and i can always print big only the wedding photos that are in good light or have flash the others (high iso) could be like a4 maximum and probably less

if i need to change brand i wont start the business (nothing against nikon or canon its just they are too heavy for me)

could someone recommend me good 75mm or 85mm manual focus lenses fast lens

if i would go nikon d7000 route i would have to buy 2 tamron 17-50 f2.8 and find cheap used 50 something (i dont know nikon lens lineup) and a 50mm f1.8 and 2 sb700

this would be the backup plan but also they would be used at same time one for me other for girlfriend

that is why i can buy 2 50mm f1,4 lenses for 100 euros and still have money for other things (i would only be using the portrait focal lenght at church .... i prefer a face with both eyes in focus so that means in m43 that at 50mm and subject distance of 2 meters you need only f2.8 and that is just for one person... this to me is more important than shallow DOF and the subject bakground detachment is better achieved with longer focal lenghts while still keeping usable DOF

for video 14-42 or 14-150mm would do in the church at iso3200 and 1/30 since things at a church are slow moving (i know i should use 1/50 in 24p mode and i will do it for the dance moments only)

the faster lens would be for stills where motion blur and camera shake would be more noticeable f1.8 of pancake would do for the wide shots of all church or both the couple in one camera e-pl1 at 1/50 with IBIS is always sharp

now i need other lens for me and another for girlfriend in the portrait-telephoto range so that i can be at a bigger distance (here in Europe priests usually dont forbid flash)

could you tell me your most common iso f stop and shutter speeds at a church in a wedding?

compositor20 said:

photography wont be me full time job i have another that pays the bills to the extent of being able to have good standard of living for a man of my age (28) in my country .

even though i dont want to go past 2000 euros of new equipment (it would be my girlfrind to finance at least half of it lol since i have already bought the equipment listed above)

Click to expand...

If you're not willing to invest to do it properly, do us all a favor and don't do it at all. You're setting yourself up for failure, and failing in this case doesn't mean just disappointing yourself, it means ruining someone else's day.

--
Sam Bennett - http://www.swiftbennett.com

compositor20 said:

i understand that d7000 is a better camera than gh-2 for stills except probably in mtf values at same megapixel number because of the light AA filter but i dont have a single piece of nikon equipment....well mys sister has a nikon tripod lol

Click to expand...

If you are just taking pictures of objects that do not move, it does not matter whether you use a mid-high end dSLR or a m4/3 camera. However people move around a lot during wedding and the light levels may be very low. You thus need a camera that can shoot at a high shutter speed to freeze motion blur (1/125 sec) at a reasonable ISO that does not return with high noise. You also need a camera/lens combo that can point, focus, and get the shot at very low light every time when you see a moment. It is in these conditions where a m4.3 system falls short. While some of these problems can be address by the use of a flash, the power of the flash is important if the venue has very high ceiling, which takes a lot of power to bounce.

compositor20 said:

photography wont be me full time job i have another that pays the bills to the extent of being able to have good standard of living for a man of my age (28) in my country .

Click to expand...

compositor20 said:

if i need to change brand i wont start the business (nothing against nikon or canon its just they are too heavy for me)

Click to expand...

Save the m4/3 as a back up or for shooting video?

compositor20 said:

could someone recommend me good 75mm or 85mm manual focus lenses fast lens

Click to expand...

If people are moving about, MF is very frustrating to use. 85/1.8 is very common and relatively cheap and they are all of high quality. For example, even the Nikon AFD 85/1.8 you can buy new for $400.

compositor20 said:

if i would go nikon d7000 route i would have to buy 2 tamron 17-50 f2.8 and find cheap used 50 something (i dont know nikon lens lineup) and a 50mm f1.8 and 2 sb700

Click to expand...

The non VC version of the Tamron can be found new for $400. The Nikon 50/1.8 is $100 new. I have the SB600 ($200 new) which is powerful enough to bounce from a 20 ft ceiling.

compositor20 said:

could you tell me your most common iso f stop and shutter speeds at a church in a wedding?

Click to expand...

To freeze motion blur from people walking, moving, blinking, etc, you need at least 1/125. After you fix the shutter speed, you should pick the aperture for the desired DOF. ISO is the last thing you need to worry about, but with the m4/3 you are mostly limited to ISO 800 before noise becomes an issue.

You might be interested in this thread and the ensuing discussion.
http://www.mu-43.com/f35/weddings-m4-3s-6571/

http://soundimageplus.blogspot.com/

well the 1/125 would be more for the reception where people move faster but in the church 1/60 will do it i believe since tthe bride and groom moove slowly when seated

sb600 is +- similar in power to fl-36r

if 85mm f1.8 lens are 400 dollars then i could by 50-200 2.8-3.5 olympus 4/3 lens at least it would have auto aperture

well with gh-2 iso that looks good is iso1600 and i would use 3200 or 2500 maybe since my levels of acceptability with my e-pl1 and e-p1 are iso1250 for dynamic range and iso1000 for grain size, so max would be 2500

the autofocus is something that worrys me for candids in reception...and if using a bounce i woould have to use some baclk directional light to the ceiling like Neil does to prevent burning close subjects anad that isnt pratical

i will wait and talk with girlfriend but i now she would not aprove more 2 cameras and such...

a sony a33 or a55 would be the closest in price to the gh-2 x2 too with cheap prime AF lens but then i would have to deal with sony flashes and the video would limited to 5 minutes and probably less because of overheating so probably not a good idea

its really a shame will look in pixmania and redcoon for smallest prices with one lens and such (its a shame they never offer kits of cameras with fast zooms)

you could never do it with success with m43

buy a canon or nikon with 24-70mm f2.8 lenses and such

There are too many threads like this (m4/3 CAN do kids, sports, BIF, wedding, etc) and frankly I am not interested in. People like me who use different cameras know what is the best camera system for the job. In a pinch (or as a novelty), any camera can do wedding ... To encourage the OP is to set him up for failure down the road.

soundimageplus said:

You might be interested in this thread and the ensuing discussion.
http://www.mu-43.com/f35/weddings-m4-3s-6571/

Click to expand...

You could just get a D90 or D80 even, with the 50mm 1.8 AF-D, the good old 80-200 AF-D 2.8 and something wide. dropping in an sb-600 would give what I would consider a bare minimum.