Flying Fish
Veteran Member
I like it. If the LCD remains bright it's harder to see through the viewfinder, and anyway it saves some battery life. I can't imagine why it was removed from the 60D, if it was.
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Thom's 2011 predictions, a good read for all gear heads ;)
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bronxbombers
Forum Pro
someone from canon actually got quoted saying that they decided to remove MFA simply to make more incentive for later upgrades
obviously they don't sit there trying to find way to make the customer miserable on purpose but they sure do discuss what they can do to take things out as much as possible to leave as future incentives, at least at some companies
it's pretty clear canon plays that card
nonsense some of the stuff they leave out has zero production cost
nikon appears to stuck in whatever they can for a given price, canon clearly holds stuff back for future upgrade-enticement, etc.
It depends on the company and sometimes the marketing droids come in a mess up what the engineers had planned too.
And look at how their marketing droids didn't even get that people would want manual control in video mode and how a proper autoiso should work, etc.
David Hull
Veteran Member
I have forgotten what the real reason for that sensor was, I think it was because there was no top LCD on the 550D with the back LCD doubling up for that purpose so they wanted to turn of the back LCD when it was likely you weren't using it. The 60D has the top LCD so they probably figure that they don't need this feature.
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zenit_b
Well-known member
I agree Christoph. One of the mums I knew bought a 350D when it was the "second string" rebel, i.e. after the 400D had come out. so it was cheap basically.... she's heavily into art and composition so of course she gets great results. Now had she bought a point and shoot.... I'm sure her results would have been just have well composed but maybe would have lacked the quality of the 350D sensor. So canon get a sale and a happy customer who hasnt bought a powershot coolpix or whatever. who loses in this ? what I like with canon is (apart from the 300D) they havn't really tried to dumb down the bottom end rebel. so the 1000D has exposure bracketing, flash exposure compensation, depth of field preview button, single shot AF/servo, mirror lockup on self timer etc etc just like a regular rebel (unlike some of the opposition). The 1000D just looks like a recycled 350D to me with a few more megapixels and a bigger screen so its probably very cheap for them to churn out ...
Yes, I prefer to smoke when I want to get better understanding of someone, who's clearly running on cocaineSmoking again?Ah, Karl, assertive as always
Well, it seems to me, that in terms of newer stuff, Canon shifted its priority from xxD to xxxD. Simply put - feature wise, Canon 550D was imo more of an upgrade to its previous line than 60D is to 50D.
The point is, that xxxD line had fullHD video sooner than xxD line, and that was my point ...
oooh, digital level, what a usefull feature. Simply put, each of us uses arguments fitting his own agenda. So here's mine:50D got the latest and greatest Canon video (50D has NO video), digital level, wireless flash control (T2i does NOT have this), flip-out LCD, 3 MP more. Hmm, sounds like much more of an upgrade than teh T2i got!
- where's MF adjustment?
- why the FPS was lowered?
- why can't I change color of the menu?
- where's my proximity sensor to turn-off the LCD automatically?
If you want to continue with your arrogant offtopic nonsense, save your reply next time, thank you. I don't need to be corrected about my writing by someone, who writes: "50D got the latest and greatest Canon video (50D has NO video)" - living in an infinite loop, right?
Karl Gnter Wnsch
Forum Pro
You are ignoring the true advances.
Harmful and thus as a consequence left out - the camera is aimed at a target audience which will surely botch the
Because the resolution was increased and the 4 read channels of a Digic IV can't handle the amount of data - and using 2 Digic IV would have put the camera into the complexity territory of the 7D and thus would have cost more without much benefit.
Who cares about a gimmick like this?
As the back LCD isn't the main control element no xxD ever needed such a sensor and the 60D doesn't either.
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Karl Günter Wünsch
They have removed it from the 50D successor, period. It has nothing in common with 7D, which is left here for you to back-up your argument
Even Rebels allow that, and I simply miss my color scheme I am used to ...
No, I am talking about the proximity sensor of digital Rebels, which turned off the display automatically, when you put your face close enough to the viewfinder. That was kind of usefull for me. I am used to work with back LCD, never used top LCD, and constantly needing to turn off the LCD manually gets pretty annoying. Once again - their lower level bodies can do that!
I like the swivel LCD and I said since the old G2 days there is going to be the day, when even DSLRs will have one
That was my wrong translation probably - I meant "turn off", not "turn out".Says someone who even does not understand what particular Canon bodies offer
I don't care - Rebel has it, so let's stop with constant excuses why in certain aspects the xxD is even more dumbed than xxxD. But some ppl will say, that it's not dumbed, it is just - different
David Hull
Veteran Member
Please provide a link to this quote, I would like to read it (preferrably in it's original context).
I think that they assign a value to a given feature and try to monitize that value. However, they are not alone, it is a tried and true marketing strategy -- look at the example of car manufactures who have been playing that game for years.
Production cost is not the only valid cost. If, perhaps this was found to create more problems than it solved, that would be sufficient justification for removing it, IMO. More than likely someone looked at the target demographic for the camera and determined that the feature was not important.
I am not aware of any large successfull company where the engineers drive the feature set. There is generally someone with a title like "Product Line Manager" who reports into a marketing buisness unit that owns the MRD. Often times this person DOES have an engineering background. Having engineers drive the product definition is generally a recipie for failure. Idealy, engineering and marketing work togather to define a successfull product. If they are fighting each other (as you and some others always seem to imply) it will be game over eventually.
I think that this was more an example of "let's run it up the flagpole and see who salutes it". I am guessing that canon had no idea what was going to come of the video feature, how it would be used and what for. I think this is still being worked out. This is actually a good example of how things often turn out when the engineers drive the product. "Wow here si the way cool feature we can put in, with no real thought of how people will actually use it". Who cares about manual operation, on the 5DII they didn't think enough of the feature to make it easu to get to -- fortunately, fixed on the 7D with the LV/Video switch.
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zenit_b
Well-known member
Just looking through it was a bit limited in the analysis of other brands I feel.
He dismissed Pentax as we have discussed without I think recognising the steady advances they have made camera to camera. Ok no stunning new tech - its evolutionary - each camera improves on the last. You know... like Nikon !!!
Then there's no credit given to Sony regarding the new range of cheap primes. I know he has been very keen on the Nikon DX 35mm f/1.8 lens for example - but sony have released a whole range of these cost effective enthusiast lenses, with the 35mm as just one of them. Why no mention ? I have tried the A33 and one of my friends has upgraded from the A100 to the A55 and loves it. cute and small - thom thinks they wont succeed and gloomily talks about "throwing things on a wall to see if it sticks". Give the tech a chance Thom !!! I have to say I liked the A33 and would consider a Canon version - particularly for manually focusing - real DOF preview etc. No real analysis of the issues here from thom I thought.
Looking at his comments on canon ... well ... ok the 60D was slightly innovation free and I have to say I had hoped for more (as I have on every xxD camera) - so I do grudgingly admit thom may have a point on that particular one - at least on the features side. The 60D could have been a whole lot more I think but hey - that's another post. The 550D in contrast does look like a welcome new cam to me and its pricing reflects the demand for it and its success in the marketplace.
Not much analysis of samsung either really and dismissing the fuji product before its even been tested doesnt sound in the slightest way objective. I suppose they are his "predictions" but they do read a bit like nostradamus... "youre all doomed except for nikon". Thom - if you want users of other brands to bother with your predictions I would suggest a bit more analysis of non-Nikon brands.
He dismissed Pentax as we have discussed without I think recognising the steady advances they have made camera to camera. Ok no stunning new tech - its evolutionary - each camera improves on the last. You know... like Nikon !!!
Then there's no credit given to Sony regarding the new range of cheap primes. I know he has been very keen on the Nikon DX 35mm f/1.8 lens for example - but sony have released a whole range of these cost effective enthusiast lenses, with the 35mm as just one of them. Why no mention ? I have tried the A33 and one of my friends has upgraded from the A100 to the A55 and loves it. cute and small - thom thinks they wont succeed and gloomily talks about "throwing things on a wall to see if it sticks". Give the tech a chance Thom !!! I have to say I liked the A33 and would consider a Canon version - particularly for manually focusing - real DOF preview etc. No real analysis of the issues here from thom I thought.
Looking at his comments on canon ... well ... ok the 60D was slightly innovation free and I have to say I had hoped for more (as I have on every xxD camera) - so I do grudgingly admit thom may have a point on that particular one - at least on the features side. The 60D could have been a whole lot more I think but hey - that's another post. The 550D in contrast does look like a welcome new cam to me and its pricing reflects the demand for it and its success in the marketplace.
Not much analysis of samsung either really and dismissing the fuji product before its even been tested doesnt sound in the slightest way objective. I suppose they are his "predictions" but they do read a bit like nostradamus... "youre all doomed except for nikon". Thom - if you want users of other brands to bother with your predictions I would suggest a bit more analysis of non-Nikon brands.
GR8Dane
New member
I have been ready for a new Canon DSLR for quite a while.
I wanted a very high dynamic range sensor (not the most pixels, but the highest dynamic range, with low very low noise).
That is what I have wanted to see from Canon since the 5D.
No, I could not afford the 5D or the 5DM2. Should I have to spend that much?
Nikon says I shouldn't have to.
With the 7D:
There was the black dot issue
The focus problem (or was that operator error)
The apparent noise at low ISO
banding in the shadow areas
In short, there was enough "wrong" with the 7D that I was afraid to buy one.
So what did I buy.... NOTHING.
With only 3 lenses, I am not tied to the Canon platform. But without a newer crop body, I'm not really inclined to continue investing in Canon lenses either. So I use what I have and will shop for a replacement everyday carry P&S instead, and the P&S probably won't be a Canon.
I wanted a very high dynamic range sensor (not the most pixels, but the highest dynamic range, with low very low noise).
That is what I have wanted to see from Canon since the 5D.
No, I could not afford the 5D or the 5DM2. Should I have to spend that much?
Nikon says I shouldn't have to.
With the 7D:
There was the black dot issue
The focus problem (or was that operator error)
The apparent noise at low ISO
banding in the shadow areas
In short, there was enough "wrong" with the 7D that I was afraid to buy one.
So what did I buy.... NOTHING.
With only 3 lenses, I am not tied to the Canon platform. But without a newer crop body, I'm not really inclined to continue investing in Canon lenses either. So I use what I have and will shop for a replacement everyday carry P&S instead, and the P&S probably won't be a Canon.
Only because the Drebel line is replaced every year and the 50D waited 2 years to be replaced, that's all.Yes, I prefer to smoke when I want to get better understanding of someone, who's clearly running on cocaineSmoking again?Ah, Karl, assertive as always
Well, it seems to me, that in terms of newer stuff, Canon shifted its priority from xxD to xxxD. Simply put - feature wise, Canon 550D was imo more of an upgrade to its previous line than 60D is to 50D.
The point is, that xxxD line had fullHD video sooner than xxD line, and that was my point ...
Wireless flash control costs $230 to buy. Canon has included it for "free" while lowering the 60D price by $200. That's a huge value.oooh, digital level, what a usefull feature. Simply put, each of us uses arguments fitting his own agenda. So here's mine:50D got the latest and greatest Canon video (50D has NO video), digital level, wireless flash control (T2i does NOT have this), flip-out LCD, 3 MP more. Hmm, sounds like much more of an upgrade than teh T2i got!
Because the MP's were raised without a faster CPU.
Who gives a flying...
Oh, that proximity sensor! Dude, that is an entry level "feature". You're not going to find it on advanced models, seriously!
No, it's only Drebel that offer it. They are entry level models that offer more gimmicky features. They are trying to grab P&S upgraders and P&S cameras have a lot of gimmicks like customizing colors, etc.
Their entry level models need to do that! You'll find no need to show shot settings on the rear LCD of your 60D since they are always displayed on the top LCD read out. You'll find that combo better for battery life and more convenient during shooting.
Is this the proximity sensor issue again? Use the top LCD for shot settings. If you are "playing/reviewing" a recorded image, the screen should turn off once you depress the shutter button halfway or maybe even any non-rear LCD button.I like the swivel LCD and I said since the old G2 days there is going to be the day, when even DSLRs will have one
If you really care for all these pet peeves, then a Drebel is calling you.I don't care - Rebel has it, so let's stop with constant excuses why in certain aspects the xxD is even more dumbed than xxxD. But some ppl will say, that it's not dumbed, it is just - different
borobudur
Member
24-105mm F2.8 VR ??......how's that possible? ....that's 2 steps up from current 24-70 f2.8.....longer ranger and VR........probably 24-70 f2.8 VR first
tom sugnet
Veteran Member
Thom is right. Canon should stop releasing recycled cameras with just more megapixels. Canon hasn't really updated the AF systems in years in the XXd models (60d same old 40d), and Rebels (550d has the same old 400d, 1000d has that yucky
350d AF).
I wouldn't be surprised if 600d were the same old 550d, just with 21 megapixels instead of 18.
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350d AF).
I wouldn't be surprised if 600d were the same old 550d, just with 21 megapixels instead of 18.
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Christoph Stephan
Veteran Member
It is difficult to understand why she traded the 1000D for a point and shoot if she is heavily into art and compostion - since composition is so much easier and more convenient with the SLR viewfinder - and less prone to camera shake. Not to mention the greater possibilities due to better high ISO, different lenses - and the little size and weight of the 1000D. In my opinion, the big step up is from compact to SLR - the different classes of SLR, 1000D to 7D for example, are just small increments compared to this. However, each to his or her own....
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Flying Fish
Veteran Member
S(h)e said that if she had, then her pictures would have had the same artistic quality but probably lower IQ.
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