Kodak 14n Price Set Date?

I heard Oct. 31st also.

If they jack the price up I will probably wait for Nikon, to see what they offer. If I have to, I can wait. My feelings for Kodak will plunge though. It's enough money already, we should be treated with respect and honesty. Nothing turns me off faster than feeling I've been baited, then the big switch. It's a matter of principle even more than money.

We'll all know soon enough.

Matt

The dealers are NOT screwing you, regardless of what they sell it for. It's not insulin, or interferon ... it's a camera that you don't have to own. Two months ago it wasn't even a rumour. You don't need it, you just want it ... and you've no obligation to buy it.

Even if it costs a dealer $3500 or so, what's wrong with making a $1000 profit? They have to put up the money to start with, and it's unlikely that they will be selling several per week (except for the mail order houses, of course.) Keep your local camera shop in business!
If they price it too high, they will sit on the shelves. Free market at work ...
Ken

Masterdeath said:

The dealers see all their pre-orders and want to make a killing...
Let me tell you soimething, any dealer I get the body from for more
then 4000 I will never buy any of the 3000 in lenses I am getting.
So they may get me on the body, BUT I will never buy the rest of
the stuff I need from them. Their is some stores I feel I will
have no respect for UNLESS they show me something were Kodak is
selling them the cameras for 4000 and said they were going to sell
them for 3-3500 range...

Robert P Miller said:

I'm a fence sitter in DSLR land. Kodak specs and firmware
upgradability caught me and now I have a 14n on order. I truly was
going to go Canon, getting a D60 to start and adding the 1D's
successor when it arrived. The 1Ds's price is more than I need to
pay, so I feel comfortable going Kodak/Nikon.
This also allows much more body sharing to the eventual lens armada
I will have. I do like Canon's approach to lens design, but can
"settle" for Nikon!
Now if the Kodaks do not ship in a timely manner, I'll either get a
Fuji S2 and use it until the Kodaks ship, or make the jump to Canon
and take really nice long night exposures with the D60 (its
strength as I see it).
So I guess I'm still fence sitting, but with a commitment on paper
to the King of the licensed mounts.
Boy, we need real topics to chat about here. This treading water
'till the 14n ships is getting old. Not that I don't enjoy it!
Best,
Robert

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

--

No 1D, very few lenses, no camera bag or teleconverters thanks to some thief. Also, NO Canon 1200mm f/5.6.

there are plenty of posts by pro photographers about how digital and pro 'wannabees' have driven DOWN prices for some types of photography. I wonder how many of these folks are complaining when the market works against them?
Ranting done, off to work!
Ken

Ken Phillips said:

Masterdeath said:

The dealers see all their pre-orders and want to make a killing...
Let me tell you soimething, any dealer I get the body from for more
then 4000 I will never buy any of the 3000 in lenses I am getting.
So they may get me on the body, BUT I will never buy the rest of
the stuff I need from them. Their is some stores I feel I will
have no respect for UNLESS they show me something were Kodak is
selling them the cameras for 4000 and said they were going to sell
them for 3-3500 range...

Robert P Miller said:

I'm a fence sitter in DSLR land. Kodak specs and firmware
upgradability caught me and now I have a 14n on order. I truly was
going to go Canon, getting a D60 to start and adding the 1D's
successor when it arrived. The 1Ds's price is more than I need to
pay, so I feel comfortable going Kodak/Nikon.
This also allows much more body sharing to the eventual lens armada
I will have. I do like Canon's approach to lens design, but can
"settle" for Nikon!
Now if the Kodaks do not ship in a timely manner, I'll either get a
Fuji S2 and use it until the Kodaks ship, or make the jump to Canon
and take really nice long night exposures with the D60 (its
strength as I see it).
So I guess I'm still fence sitting, but with a commitment on paper
to the King of the licensed mounts.
Boy, we need real topics to chat about here. This treading water
'till the 14n ships is getting old. Not that I don't enjoy it!
Best,
Robert

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

--
No 1D, very few lenses, no camera bag or teleconverters thanks to
some thief. Also, NO Canon 1200mm f/5.6.

Click to expand...

--

No 1D, very few lenses, no camera bag or teleconverters thanks to some thief. Also, NO Canon 1200mm f/5.6.

The point I was trying to make depending on 2 things.. 1) what Kodak was selling the camera to the dealers for and 2) what the dealers were doing about the markup and price quotes.. Its seems to be Kodak that is the problem here.. Not the dealers as far as I know... So I retract anything bad about the dealers but would now like to ad that Kodak may be screwing us and the dealers..

They put out information that the cam was going to be about 4000 street meaning that the though they would be seeling the cam to dealers for about 3500, now I hear that Kodak is selling the cam to the dealers for more then the street price they originally said.. My point is that Kodak should have had their act together before they start quoting even estimates.. I never quote and estimate that I know may be that far off on any job I do, it is not good business practive.

If it did cost $3500 then the dealers could sell it for about 4000-4200 a standard %15-20 markup. But the dealers who are only making $400-500 on a 4600 product are the ones I respect because they are staying as close to the quoted prices when people pre-ordered as possiable..

PS The reason I said screwing us is because many of the dealers and kodak kept saying 4000,4000,4500 and now its more like 4700,4800,4995. Many people places pre-orders with sales people sounding petty sure we were looking at no more then 4200 in most cases. This is due to waht they heard from Kodak. Now many peope ar rethinking thier orders. So the question is who is to blame? the Dealers? I dont think so from what I have hear so far.. Kodak? Yes for not having their price together sooner...

Ken Phillips said:

Ken Phillips said:

Masterdeath said:

The dealers see all their pre-orders and want to make a killing...
Let me tell you soimething, any dealer I get the body from for more
then 4000 I will never buy any of the 3000 in lenses I am getting.
So they may get me on the body, BUT I will never buy the rest of
the stuff I need from them. Their is some stores I feel I will
have no respect for UNLESS they show me something were Kodak is
selling them the cameras for 4000 and said they were going to sell
them for 3-3500 range...

Robert P Miller said:

I'm a fence sitter in DSLR land. Kodak specs and firmware
upgradability caught me and now I have a 14n on order. I truly was
going to go Canon, getting a D60 to start and adding the 1D's
successor when it arrived. The 1Ds's price is more than I need to
pay, so I feel comfortable going Kodak/Nikon.
This also allows much more body sharing to the eventual lens armada
I will have. I do like Canon's approach to lens design, but can
"settle" for Nikon!
Now if the Kodaks do not ship in a timely manner, I'll either get a
Fuji S2 and use it until the Kodaks ship, or make the jump to Canon
and take really nice long night exposures with the D60 (its
strength as I see it).
So I guess I'm still fence sitting, but with a commitment on paper
to the King of the licensed mounts.
Boy, we need real topics to chat about here. This treading water
'till the 14n ships is getting old. Not that I don't enjoy it!
Best,
Robert

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

--
No 1D, very few lenses, no camera bag or teleconverters thanks to
some thief. Also, NO Canon 1200mm f/5.6.

Click to expand...

--
No 1D, very few lenses, no camera bag or teleconverters thanks to
some thief. Also, NO Canon 1200mm f/5.6.

Click to expand...

Kodak told me the same yesterday. That the price is more likely to fall around the $4500 area.

Anthony Harrison said:

Anthony Harrison said:

Price in Europe will be € 6.000,-- ($ 5.400)
Regards
Guenter

Click to expand...

Wie gehts, Guenter... I would be very interested to know the source
of your price information: the Marketing people at Kodak UK have a
best estimate of around 3600gbp, which is slightly less than the
figure you quote.
Regards, Anthony

Click to expand...

--
Erika Lemberger

I believe you are right (except for the flash sync part-they probably rely on their FP function of the SB 80 DX to give you a "sort of" higher flash sync with a wide open apeture.) I do not believe they will announce it too soon if they didn't bring it to the show here. But yes within the next few months.

Masterdeath said:

The canon may be 6000 street but when you look at it feature for
feature with the exception of a 11mp v 14mp the canon is a much
better camera.. What I want to see is Nikon annouce a new camera
before the Kodaks start shipping.. I will make a prediction.. If
Nikon annoced a new camera in the range from 11-12MP before
December and the release date is within 3-6 months and the price is
not more then 500-1000 more then the 14N and its based on the F5
body and has things like 1/500 shutter etc, etc. You will see at
lease 20-30% cancelation of Pro14N orders..

But I really think nikon will annouce a new model from 6 months to
a year from now. But if Nikon is smart(They useally are) they
would annouce anything at this point just to get people from buying
Kodak and waiting for their product. Either way Nikons wins
because they make the lenses anyway...

Click to expand...

--
Erika Lemberger

Doens't it make any of you uncomfortable that a camera can be priced at announcement $6-8000 and then at a whim (bec. of competitve marketing ploys) be reduced by a cool $2000? Wouldn't we all actually like to think the camera is actually valued at $8000 bec. of all the expensive components inside (and of course the store has a need to earn at least a $100 or so off the sale). Somehow it makes me feel like those sales at Saks when a item of clothing was "originally" (being ridicously priced to begin with) prices at $1.200 ans is now reduced for the Holidays to $250. Somehow it makes me really think about how much these camera's are really worth if they can do that. The 35mm gang was never bounced around like that. Look at the price that the EOS 1 Ds or Nikon F5 was sold for at the time of their announcement and their price's have not gone down much since then (even their used prices are steep).

William Carter said:

On the other hand, if it's Kodak that's increasing its price to
dealers, that would also be a bad move. At $4000(ish), I was
excited, willing to be an early adopter, and placed a very early
pre-order. If the street price is 20% more than that, I become a
lot less excited and much more inclined to see what Nikon comes up
with. My reasoning was that, given the type of photography I do,
the difference between the 14n ($4000 street) and a potential D2
($6500-ish street) was not justified by the differences between an
F5 body and an N80 body. As that $ gap closes, I'm more inclined
to wait and see what Nikon does, particularly since I don't NEED a
new digital camera in December (well, OK, probably Feb. by the time
I would actually get a 14n).

NickHP said:

When is it that Kodak are supposed to "officially" announce the
price of the 14n? Seeing the post below, I may have ended up
waiting for something I will not buy (at that price). I will be so
mad if I find out I held out for this camera just to find out they
jacked the price up $1k! I would have bought the S2 two weeks ago
if it hadn't been for the 14n, I hope I don't regret the
wait..........

Thanks

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

--
Erika Lemberger

Yup, ultimately it is about profit. If the benefit the product gives is not great enough to justify its price, the product sits and every one looses. Fair market price will find itself after a bit. Notice 6MP DSLRs no longer sell for $10,000. US and up.

Those in the chain of sell through need some profit to make the transactions worthwhile. Perhaps the camera bodies can be sold by a few dealers at a razor thin margin, but I do not think that will be the case. That line of thinking brings in customers who feed mainly in that way. They would abandon the dealer for another if the other dealer has cheaper lenses . Consumers who consistently shop for the lowest price no matter what, produce a market with little allegiance and no dealer/consumer trust. This is the market I mainly see today. Is it any wonder fewer local shops exist.

And yes, I know the Internet changed it all. Heck, I use Canoga Camera as a frequent bookmark to learn from. I have yet to buy from them, but they get decent reports from others so I may. I use the Internet for info BECAUSE my local shops have vanished. Now a consumer Ritz lives nearby...... need I say more?

It is not all about the customers needs. A balance must be forged between the selling parties. Yes, the customers have the ultimate say with their spending dollars, but all parties in the sell through chain need to be aware of their place and responsibilities to the others. With out any one, the other two will suffer. We all want to make a living. Do not fault others for trying to do the same.

That said, surely some dealers are rascally and need to be avoided. I doubt these dealers will be the ones selling Kodak DSLRs though. The unscrupulous dealers are there for the bottom feeders they attract and can have them.

Perhaps the remainder of us can find the balance between price and service that will allow our dealer and ourselves to make the transactions happen with a modicum of pleasantness and perhaps even happiness. That is what it is about as well, trying to make all parties happy.

It is difficult to create comensalative relationships in this increasingly predatory world. The pity to us all on that thought.
Best,
Robert

Erika said:

William Carter said:

On the other hand, if it's Kodak that's increasing its price to
dealers, that would also be a bad move. At $4000(ish), I was
excited, willing to be an early adopter, and placed a very early
pre-order. If the street price is 20% more than that, I become a
lot less excited and much more inclined to see what Nikon comes up
with. My reasoning was that, given the type of photography I do,
the difference between the 14n ($4000 street) and a potential D2
($6500-ish street) was not justified by the differences between an
F5 body and an N80 body. As that $ gap closes, I'm more inclined
to wait and see what Nikon does, particularly since I don't NEED a
new digital camera in December (well, OK, probably Feb. by the time
I would actually get a 14n).

NickHP said:

When is it that Kodak are supposed to "officially" announce the
price of the 14n? Seeing the post below, I may have ended up
waiting for something I will not buy (at that price). I will be so
mad if I find out I held out for this camera just to find out they
jacked the price up $1k! I would have bought the S2 two weeks ago
if it hadn't been for the 14n, I hope I don't regret the
wait..........

Thanks

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

--
Erika Lemberger

Click to expand...

It seems everyone is forgetting about the main rule in pricing ANYTHING. That is, whatever the market will bare. There is no secret anything. The real question is does it fit your needs and will you be able to recoup your money. Yes I would love to spend only 4,000 but if the price is 5,000 i will buy it because it helps me make money, can I get by with 6mp. Yes I can and I am (760) do I need the extra resolution.YES it is a major selling points to clients. This is all that really matters in the long run. As a Pro we have no choice you snooze you lose. We can't wait for better 6 months from now. You have clients that want 42 mg files not 18 . Is there a difference between the 2 maybe but they don't care bigger is better period. Kodak is not selling anything here but 2 things and now one seems to realize it or overlooks it because of some limitations and they are the first to tell you. This camera has the best resolution to date 42 mg files in a 35mm body . Second it cost less then $5000.00. Do the math a dig back cost 12,000 just for the BACK. File sixze around 42 megs. Folks that is the bottom line. Flash sync there is a work around, auto focus I honestly do not know a Pro who uses it except sports guys and some journalist. Besides I been focusing manully for 25 years , It's comfortable and works. We all need to realize what is being sold here and it may not be what you want exactly. Every camera has limitations the best you can do is pick what works for you. Done ranting
Guy
--
GUY

Guy Mancuso said:

Erika said:

William Carter said:

On the other hand, if it's Kodak that's increasing its price to
dealers, that would also be a bad move. At $4000(ish), I was
excited, willing to be an early adopter, and placed a very early
pre-order. If the street price is 20% more than that, I become a
lot less excited and much more inclined to see what Nikon comes up
with. My reasoning was that, given the type of photography I do,
the difference between the 14n ($4000 street) and a potential D2
($6500-ish street) was not justified by the differences between an
F5 body and an N80 body. As that $ gap closes, I'm more inclined
to wait and see what Nikon does, particularly since I don't NEED a
new digital camera in December (well, OK, probably Feb. by the time
I would actually get a 14n).

NickHP said:

When is it that Kodak are supposed to "officially" announce the
price of the 14n? Seeing the post below, I may have ended up
waiting for something I will not buy (at that price). I will be so
mad if I find out I held out for this camera just to find out they
jacked the price up $1k! I would have bought the S2 two weeks ago
if it hadn't been for the 14n, I hope I don't regret the
wait..........

Thanks

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

--
Erika Lemberger

Click to expand...

It seems everyone is forgetting about the main rule in pricing
ANYTHING. That is, whatever the market will bare. There is no
secret anything. The real question is does it fit your needs and
will you be able to recoup your money. Yes I would love to spend
only 4,000 but if the price is 5,000 i will buy it because it helps
me make money, can I get by with 6mp. Yes I can and I am (760) do I
need the extra resolution.YES it is a major selling points to
clients. This is all that really matters in the long run. As a Pro
we have no choice you snooze you lose. We can't wait for better 6
months from now. You have clients that want 42 mg files not 18 . Is
there a difference between the 2 maybe but they don't care bigger
is better period. Kodak is not selling anything here but 2 things
and now one seems to realize it or overlooks it because of some
limitations and they are the first to tell you. This camera has the
best resolution to date 42 mg files in a 35mm body . Second it cost
less then $5000.00. Do the math a dig back cost 12,000 just for the
BACK. File sixze around 42 megs. Folks that is the bottom line.
Flash sync there is a work around, auto focus I honestly do not
know a Pro who uses it except sports guys and some journalist.
Besides I been focusing manully for 25 years , It's comfortable and
works. We all need to realize what is being sold here and it may
not be what you want exactly. Every camera has limitations the best
you can do is pick what works for you. Done ranting
Guy
--
GUY

Click to expand...

You made an awful lot of good points here, but if your view on autofocus would be correct Hasselblad and Contax and Rollei would not have just spent a major fortune to develop AF camera's at very steep prices (and we are talking 2 1/4 and 645 here not even digital. Number two not every pro needs a 42 meg file (and now we need 3 gig cards) and all the workflow issue's (like download speeds and storage space etc.) We are not all into Commercial work. Allot of us are into event work and are being served "wellish" by our present S2's, D1x's and 1D's. Yes we earn money selling images but I think we'd like to KEEP some of that money at some point in stead of constantly making MAJOR purchases in every which direction every 6 months!!!

(90% of my work is done meanwhile in medium format using manual everything - including auto focus). But I wish it wouldn't have to be that way I would like to do everything in Digital and i am waiting for things to fall into the places I feel they should fall into-which i've mentioned in past threads.
--
Erika Lemberger

Erika said:

Erika said:

Erika said:

--
Erika Lemberger

Click to expand...

It seems everyone is forgetting about the main rule in pricing
ANYTHING. That is, whatever the market will bare. There is no
secret anything. The real question is does it fit your needs and
will you be able to recoup your money. Yes I would love to spend
only 4,000 but if the price is 5,000 i will buy it because it helps
me make money, can I get by with 6mp. Yes I can and I am (760) do I
need the extra resolution.YES it is a major selling points to
clients. This is all that really matters in the long run. As a Pro
we have no choice you snooze you lose. We can't wait for better 6
months from now. You have clients that want 42 mg files not 18 . Is
there a difference between the 2 maybe but they don't care bigger
is better period. Kodak is not selling anything here but 2 things
and now one seems to realize it or overlooks it because of some
limitations and they are the first to tell you. This camera has the
best resolution to date 42 mg files in a 35mm body . Second it cost
less then $5000.00. Do the math a dig back cost 12,000 just for the
BACK. File sixze around 42 megs. Folks that is the bottom line.
Flash sync there is a work around, auto focus I honestly do not
know a Pro who uses it except sports guys and some journalist.
Besides I been focusing manully for 25 years , It's comfortable and
works. We all need to realize what is being sold here and it may
not be what you want exactly. Every camera has limitations the best
you can do is pick what works for you. Done ranting
Guy
--
GUY

Click to expand...

You made an awful lot of good points here, but if your view on
autofocus would be correct Hasselblad and Contax and Rollei would
not have just spent a major fortune to develop AF camera's at very
steep prices (and we are talking 2 1/4 and 645 here not even
digital. Number two not every pro needs a 42 meg file (and now we
need 3 gig cards) and all the workflow issue's (like download
speeds and storage space etc.) We are not all into Commercial work.
Allot of us are into event work and are being served "wellish" by
our present S2's, D1x's and 1D's. Yes we earn money selling images
but I think we'd like to KEEP some of that money at some point in
stead of constantly making MAJOR purchases in every which direction
every 6 months!!!
(90% of my work is done meanwhile in medium format using manual
everything - including auto focus). But I wish it wouldn't have to
be that way I would like to do everything in Digital and i am
waiting for things to fall into the places I feel they should fall
into-which i've mentioned in past threads.
--
Erika Lemberger

Click to expand...

--Yes you made some great points also not everyone needs a 42 mg file and the post processing nightmare bigger hard drives faster computer etc. but the 14n will sample at 6mp also, great for the event work and work that does not need a huge file nice to have both options. You also mentioned the 21/4 wouln't it be nice to dump the manual everything and still get the quality from digital. This camera may be the answer. I dumped all of my Hassy stuff (crazy but I want digial) and hopefully the 14n will bring this quality back. Also I am not a big fan of spending 6 grand every 6 months also but technology changes. Look at computers for example you buy one day the next it is a dinosaur and the price dropped 500.00. We will never win the technology issue but yes it would be nice that the 6,000 grand we spent would last awhile. Let me touch on the Hassy Contax issue they have to compete just like everyone else and they are looking for there niche market with filma and digiatl and not that autofocus is bad or not usefull but for me i don't trust it all the time.
Guy
GUY

Erika,

I went totally digital over two years ago, first with the S1Pro and then a D1X. What I soon realised that these cameras pay for themselves out of SAVINGS (not talking about profits here) due to no film costs and no processing costs until final prints are made. The other thing to note is that my printing costs have been substantially reduced from previously when I used to send my negs for printing at a pro lab at vastly increased prices for not particularly good work. Now I do my own image prep and send it to a small lab with a Frontier and get stunning images back.

The other thing is that people love the results and this has led to increased sales (up by around 33%)

Taking all this into account, the D1X (including accessories and a 28-70 AFS lens) was paid for in around 4 to 6 months and I have had vastly increased profits 8 to 10 months since it was paid for. It was even tax deductable.

So, I have absolutely no fear when splashing out $5000 on a newer model which will help keep me at the cutting edge. At the end of the day I will be showing a vastly increased profit even after spending out on a new camera each year.

--
Carol

Carol Steele said:

Erika,

I went totally digital over two years ago, first with the S1Pro and
then a D1X. What I soon realised that these cameras pay for
themselves out of SAVINGS (not talking about profits here) due to
no film costs and no processing costs until final prints are made.
The other thing to note is that my printing costs have been
substantially reduced from previously when I used to send my negs
for printing at a pro lab at vastly increased prices for not
particularly good work. Now I do my own image prep and send it to
a small lab with a Frontier and get stunning images back.

The other thing is that people love the results and this has led to
increased sales (up by around 33%)

Taking all this into account, the D1X (including accessories and a
28-70 AFS lens) was paid for in around 4 to 6 months and I have had
vastly increased profits 8 to 10 months since it was paid for. It
was even tax deductable.

So, I have absolutely no fear when splashing out $5000 on a newer
model which will help keep me at the cutting edge. At the end of
the day I will be showing a vastly increased profit even after
spending out on a new camera each year.

--
Carol

Click to expand...

Good point Carol forgot to mention the cost savings in film and such. But the bigger savings is not having to run out and get your film developed and picked up . I can work in my office and work my files they way I like. That's something hard to put a figure on. And yes it should pay fo itself rather quickly. Shooting as a pro that is just part of doing business. I spent $6000.00 about a year ago on the 760 it definitly paid for itself but now another $5000.00. At least I have some nice gear. It's not the easiest thing to swallow and harder to explain to your spouse. Ha!
Guy

--
GUY

What kind of work do you do? I would like to know how you handle your work flow and how many employees’ you have. Why the employee question? Well if you are printing digital and need to hand out decent proofs, someone will have to correct them. If you are giving out CD that's something else. My clients aren't into that yet (let's call them not CD ready). I don't have to go to the lab they pick up my work and send me back my proofing . They are now offering me a new service.

I can have all my negs scanned for $150 more with a high res scanner and the clients get the proofs and the scans are kept in the labs server. if I need to reorder I don't need to handle negs. I just fax the lab an order sheet with the clients order number and reprints list and they ship me all the prints a week later.

Now, why would I want to go through all the teeter tooter that's going on out there and jump system's bec. the dust hasn't settled yet, if I can solve my issue's this way?

Guy Mancuso said:

Carol Steele said:

Erika,

I went totally digital over two years ago, first with the S1Pro and
then a D1X. What I soon realised that these cameras pay for
themselves out of SAVINGS (not talking about profits here) due to
no film costs and no processing costs until final prints are made.
The other thing to note is that my printing costs have been
substantially reduced from previously when I used to send my negs
for printing at a pro lab at vastly increased prices for not
particularly good work. Now I do my own image prep and send it to
a small lab with a Frontier and get stunning images back.

The other thing is that people love the results and this has led to
increased sales (up by around 33%)

Taking all this into account, the D1X (including accessories and a
28-70 AFS lens) was paid for in around 4 to 6 months and I have had
vastly increased profits 8 to 10 months since it was paid for. It
was even tax deductable.

So, I have absolutely no fear when splashing out $5000 on a newer
model which will help keep me at the cutting edge. At the end of
the day I will be showing a vastly increased profit even after
spending out on a new camera each year.

--
Carol

Click to expand...

Good point Carol forgot to mention the cost savings in film and
such. But the bigger savings is not having to run out and get your
film developed and picked up . I can work in my office and work my
files they way I like. That's something hard to put a figure on.
And yes it should pay fo itself rather quickly. Shooting as a pro
that is just part of doing business. I spent $6000.00 about a year
ago on the 760 it definitly paid for itself but now another
$5000.00. At least I have some nice gear. It's not the easiest
thing to swallow and harder to explain to your spouse. Ha!
Guy

--
GUY

Click to expand...

--
Erika Lemberger

Guy what niche? Somehow with all my gripes i know digital is it and that's the direction we will all be taking (and it will be Ok within 2 years). But who needs med. format film camera's that weigh a ton if digtal will give us the same qualtiy? You also have a valid point about computer's but somehow I don't feel the pressing need to buy one every year I just get the fastest to begin with and make sure it has loads of memory.

Printer's like the Epson don't last me long so they do get replaced every year (as soon as they break and the next one is out anyways). But on the other hand the prices are really resonable! (Let's not talk about the ink consumption though). I own 4 Epsons and the Pictrography 3500. I think I can be using that printer for the next two years for sure. maybe more. The camera's are real killer's though.

Guy Mancuso said:

Guy Mancuso said:

Guy Mancuso said:

Guy Mancuso said:

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Erika Lemberger

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It seems everyone is forgetting about the main rule in pricing
ANYTHING. That is, whatever the market will bare. There is no
secret anything. The real question is does it fit your needs and
will you be able to recoup your money. Yes I would love to spend
only 4,000 but if the price is 5,000 i will buy it because it helps
me make money, can I get by with 6mp. Yes I can and I am (760) do I
need the extra resolution.YES it is a major selling points to
clients. This is all that really matters in the long run. As a Pro
we have no choice you snooze you lose. We can't wait for better 6
months from now. You have clients that want 42 mg files not 18 . Is
there a difference between the 2 maybe but they don't care bigger
is better period. Kodak is not selling anything here but 2 things
and now one seems to realize it or overlooks it because of some
limitations and they are the first to tell you. This camera has the
best resolution to date 42 mg files in a 35mm body . Second it cost
less then $5000.00. Do the math a dig back cost 12,000 just for the
BACK. File sixze around 42 megs. Folks that is the bottom line.
Flash sync there is a work around, auto focus I honestly do not
know a Pro who uses it except sports guys and some journalist.
Besides I been focusing manully for 25 years , It's comfortable and
works. We all need to realize what is being sold here and it may
not be what you want exactly. Every camera has limitations the best
you can do is pick what works for you. Done ranting
Guy
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GUY

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You made an awful lot of good points here, but if your view on
autofocus would be correct Hasselblad and Contax and Rollei would
not have just spent a major fortune to develop AF camera's at very
steep prices (and we are talking 2 1/4 and 645 here not even
digital. Number two not every pro needs a 42 meg file (and now we
need 3 gig cards) and all the workflow issue's (like download
speeds and storage space etc.) We are not all into Commercial work.
Allot of us are into event work and are being served "wellish" by
our present S2's, D1x's and 1D's. Yes we earn money selling images
but I think we'd like to KEEP some of that money at some point in
stead of constantly making MAJOR purchases in every which direction
every 6 months!!!
(90% of my work is done meanwhile in medium format using manual
everything - including auto focus). But I wish it wouldn't have to
be that way I would like to do everything in Digital and i am
waiting for things to fall into the places I feel they should fall
into-which i've mentioned in past threads.
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Erika Lemberger

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--Yes you made some great points also not everyone needs a 42 mg
file and the post processing nightmare bigger hard drives faster
computer etc. but the 14n will sample at 6mp also, great for the
event work and work that does not need a huge file nice to have
both options. You also mentioned the 21/4 wouln't it be nice to
dump the manual everything and still get the quality from digital.
This camera may be the answer. I dumped all of my Hassy stuff
(crazy but I want digial) and hopefully the 14n will bring this
quality back. Also I am not a big fan of spending 6 grand every 6
months also but technology changes. Look at computers for example
you buy one day the next it is a dinosaur and the price dropped
500.00. We will never win the technology issue but yes it would be
nice that the 6,000 grand we spent would last awhile. Let me touch
on the Hassy Contax issue they have to compete just like everyone
else and they are looking for there niche market with filma and
digiatl and not that autofocus is bad or not usefull but for me i
don't trust it all the time.
Guy
GUY

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Erika Lemberger

I am sort of Privy to a major retailer's pricing ( good friends with all their managers and buyer the past 15 years). You'd be shocked at the small amount they earn on camera's. It the accessories that keep them marching on.

Masterdeath said:

I am looking at the S2 now 2500 cheaper and that is just enough to
get me along for a few months till I can see what else is coming
out....

William Carter said:

On the other hand, if it's Kodak that's increasing its price to
dealers, that would also be a bad move. At $4000(ish), I was
excited, willing to be an early adopter, and placed a very early
pre-order. If the street price is 20% more than that, I become a
lot less excited and much more inclined to see what Nikon comes up
with. My reasoning was that, given the type of photography I do,
the difference between the 14n ($4000 street) and a potential D2
($6500-ish street) was not justified by the differences between an
F5 body and an N80 body. As that $ gap closes, I'm more inclined
to wait and see what Nikon does, particularly since I don't NEED a
new digital camera in December (well, OK, probably Feb. by the time
I would actually get a 14n).

NickHP said:

When is it that Kodak are supposed to "officially" announce the
price of the 14n? Seeing the post below, I may have ended up
waiting for something I will not buy (at that price). I will be so
mad if I find out I held out for this camera just to find out they
jacked the price up $1k! I would have bought the S2 two weeks ago
if it hadn't been for the 14n, I hope I don't regret the
wait..........

Thanks

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Erika Lemberger

Did you actually handle an H1? I didn't find it to be all that heavy. What I do find heavy is the chunk of change you need to get into it. Otherwise the removable (and thus easily cleanable) 16MP Kodak ProBack, option to switch to film, etc. are very attractive...all in a camera that weighs about the same as an F5.

Erika wrote:
But who needs med. format film camera's that weigh

Erika said:

a ton if digtal will give us the same qualtiy? You also have a
valid point about computer's but somehow I don't feel the pressing
need to buy one every year I just get the fastest to begin with and
make sure it has loads of memory.

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Yes, i did handle it for about 5 minutes. i found it heavier then the F5 and I am sure it is. Remember while using it in anything but a studio enviroment one still needs to add a flash (let's say Quantum or metz and a bracket. It sure won't have the balance of an F5. Does anyone on this forum know of a taker who is now willing to dish out on an entirely new system which would cost him/her $17,000 and upwards depending on the amount of lenses purchased?!. One will need to purchase let's say at least 3 lenses as you need to use the autofocus lenses. The autofocus was very nice for a medium format camera (I've tried the autofocus on all the other's and the H1 was the best).

Don Douglas said:

Erika wrote:
But who needs med. format film camera's that weigh

Don Douglas said:

a ton if digtal will give us the same qualtiy? You also have a
valid point about computer's but somehow I don't feel the pressing
need to buy one every year I just get the fastest to begin with and
make sure it has loads of memory.

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Erika Lemberger