Does E5 make sense if you don't own zuiko lenses

Thank you olyflyer

Loved you string 2x and 1/2 time thing - its a nice word game and good illustration but I have no doubt you understood my concern.

As to your warnings about OM usage on e-5 it is very important piece of information - many thanks for it and the rest of your post
Before I make up my mind about which camera to buy I thought I would like to here about the E-5 from people who know about it. Seems to me that:

1. It is 2x crop factor much smaller than the competition
"How long is a piece of string?"

The answer to that is:

"It is precisely 2 times as long as from one end to the middle."

But who can answer…

How small is something which is "much smaller"?

It is much smaller than the much larger ones, but much larger than the much smaller ones. It is the smallest DSLR.
2. 12mp vs 16-18 on latest cameras
Right.
3. No data on their Noise level and DR
No, not yet.
I know it has some special qualities mostly in terms of WB and lenses... It may have more that I don't know... I do know that what I shoot is landscape, portraits and still lives

So my questions are:
1. for a person w no lenses - does it make sense to start a system base on E-5
No, it makes no sense unless you buy lenses as well, and when you buy lenses buy only the best ones.
2. Does price make sense
No, not for someone who is not having any lenses already. It is however a lot cheaper to buy the E-5 than a new system if you already have a lot of money buried in lenses and other stuff connected to the system.
3. what is mFT
An oversized, exclusive P&S, the future of Oly consumer grade bodies.
how will it affect future use of E5 or future cameras
It won't affect the pro DSLR bodies, at least not for now. It will affect the lens development, since as it seems that's stopped as far as FourThirds is concerned.
4. how good is high iso and Dynamic range
Good for some, but not good for others. Wait for proper reviews.
5. are body and lenses sealed
The E-5 is yes. Some lenses are, others are not. The expensive HG/SHG lenses are all sealed but the much cheaper SG lenses are not.
6. does older om lenses fit on the camera or need an adapter
Need an adapter. The adapter does not allow you to control anything, the aperture is always set to what you have selected on the aperture dial, meaning that lenses can practically only be used wide open. Metering works but you will not get focus confirmation. IS works with primes but with zooms only with severe limitations, since zoom lenses can not be defined in the IS setup. Only one legacy lens can be defined, so if you change lens you have to change the settings as well.

Another option is to use adapters with focus confirmation and some limited EXIF data. These emulate digital lenses and fool the camera to believe that it has a digital lens on it. The advantage is focus confirmation. The disadvantage is that you have to buy an adapter to each lens or have to reprogram every time you change lens. If you are not doing that then IS will become practically useless and even metering can be messed up.

Another disadvantage is that the adapters I have seen are of bad quality, some can cause damage to your camera as well. Unfortunately Olympus never really cared to update their MF-1, which is a very high quality adapter, but has no electronics.

Of course, the best solution would be if the camera would support the focus confirmation even for legacy lenses on it's own and if it would contain a lens table, just like it contains a focus tuning lens table. We all know by now that that's never going to happen.
7. how difficult is it to shoot manual lenses
Very difficult if you ask some people, quite easy if you ask some others. It is probably the best to use live view for MF, in which case it is easy, as easy as with any other camera. If you want to use the OVF than manual focus is considerably more difficult.
I know I am asking a lot but all questions are asked for a reason.
Thanks for your consideration
Good luck.
--
Never forget that only dead fish swim with the stream.
(Malcolm Muggeridge)
--
Ruvy
http://www.ruvyamir.co.il
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Thank you Arief

Your views are shared by most people who replied here so there must be great truth in it. With it, few things becoming clear among them no one really know how the e-5 works and no review is available and future is a big uncertainty. I am going to visit tomorrow the local importer here and see if he can broaden my horizons

thank you much and will love to see images you took with the E-3
Before I make up my mind about which camera to buy I thought I would like to here about the E-5 from people who know about it. Seems to me that:

1. It is 2x crop factor much smaller than the competition
2. 12mp vs 16-18 on latest cameras
3. No data on their Noise level and DR

I know it has some special qualities mostly in terms of WB and lenses... It may have more that I don't know... I do know that what I shoot is landscape, portraits and still lives

So my questions are:
1. for a person w no lenses - does it make sense to start a system base on E-5
It is vary subjective matters. so i tell you this.. the first experience i use 4/3 system is my E510 and then after 3 month i upgrade to my E3, the reasons is, IQ is vary good compare to the price, and i never regret it to choose olympus camera system. so the answer is, how much money do want to spend for the system ? cause as far as i know, the olympus lens and body combination is vary reasonable even if you have to get the "super High Grade" lens to be couple with your E5
2. Does price make sense
Please.. Never judgee a book from its cover.. it means don't judge E5 from the the spec only (brochure), try for yourself by bringing your own CF take a few shoot and compare to other camera at your calibrated monitor..
3. what is mFT how will it affect future use of E5 or future cameras
they both targeting different market, lets say 4/3 is for pro user which speed is all you need the most while M4/3 is for travelling, vary small, light but never sacrifice the quality itself but rather slow (longer shutter leg)
4. how good is high iso and Dynamic range
speaking the truth, i never try E5, but i do pre order one and i haven't received yet and the principal promise the third to fourth week of this month. but base on my experience with my EP2, it is my favorite camera since it has good DR, high ISO noise is vary acceptable (ISO 1600) so i am pretty sure that E5 does better..
5. are body and lenses sealed
Yes, and you have to believe it.. i use to wash my E3 and all my lens (High Grade and Super High Grade) to tab water and i have any problem after that.. the competitor may say the have weather sealed for lens and body but they also offer you rain sleeve.. funny huh..
6. does older om lenses fit on the camera or need an adapter
yes, and actually olympus made the adapter (OM Adapter MF1)
7. how difficult is it to shoot manual lenses

i never try but it once cross my mind to try, even right now i already have OM 50mmf1.4, and you might want to try split image to you view finder from Katzeye (www.katzeyeoptics.com)
I know I am asking a lot but all questions are asked for a reason.
Thanks for your consideration
actually this forum is made to share and learn each other..
--
Ruvy
http://www.ruvyamir.co.il
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Thank you Zallon for this very interesting reply which highlight things from a different perspective.
If the question is:

1) Will Olympus support warranty? Answer is yes.
I suppose you are right but I wasn't too concern about it
2) Will Olympus be around in 5 yrs? Answer is yes.
You may be right here too but will it still make professional grade dslr or will take same rout as Fuji did no one know ... this is my real concern about buying onto an Olympus system
3) Will Olympus continue to make existing lenses or will they stop producing and sell out of lenses? Answer is that they most likely will continue to sell lenses that they have sold well and/or are making profits on.
This makes sense too
Software support outside of firmware updates is not really an issue, as other programs process it's raw files really well (ie. Lightroom 3 for me).
Agree
The only question that would be a "no" that is actually relevant would be:

4) Is Olympus going to create fast prime lenses? And I would say no, because they haven't really done yet ... so why would they start now. This is the only area where I can say I've been disappointed with Olympus.
Even though I love primes and could live with just 2-3 lenses I can do with Oly superb zooms and whatever prime the have so I wouldn't say its the "only question that can or should be asked
The lenses they have in their line up are really good at the midlevel, like the 50-200mm SWD, 11-22mm, 9-18mm, and the 14-54mm MKII. For faster focus and even sharper there is the 12-60mm SWD, and for extremely wide the 7-14mm. With an exception of one of those lenses, all are really well weather sealed. The 50mm F/2 is a very sharp lens with great contrast, but because it seems to be built like a macro lens, the AF on it isn't the greatest ... but the IQ with this lens is superb.

So if you're looking for lenses beyond that, there are the higher dollar ones like the 14-35mm F/2, the 35-100mm F/2 and few other top grade, fast lenses.

Outside of these existing lenses, what do you need that isn't available?
--

love your avatar, like your post - its very original. He he, lucky you, you got out of it, I feel heading into the camera all the time
Alan

'It's not enough that I succeed -- others must fail.' - Genghis Khan
this is the only line in your post that I completely disagree :-)

--
Ruvy
http://www.ruvyamir.co.il
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older: http://www.pbase.com/ruvy ,
 
Before I make up my mind about which camera to buy I thought I would like to here about the E-5 from people who know about it. Seems to me that:

1. It is 2x crop factor much smaller than the competition
2. 12mp vs 16-18 on latest cameras
3. No data on their Noise level and DR

I know it has some special qualities mostly in terms of WB and lenses... It may have more that I don't know... I do know that what I shoot is landscape, portraits and still lives
I don't see enough difference between 2x crop and 1.6, 1.5, etc to get worked up about.
I owned SD14 for two years or so (until it was stolen) with 1.7x and was longing for much smalled crop factor at more than once. As a result I was looking for FF but think there is no reasonable relations between the extra cost and the gain in performance even though performance is superb.
So my questions are:
1. for a person w no lenses - does it make sense to start a system base on E-5
2. Does price make sense
3. what is mFT how will it affect future use of E5 or future cameras
4. how good is high iso and Dynamic range
5. are body and lenses sealed
6. does older om lenses fit on the camera or need an adapter
7. how difficult is it to shoot manual lenses
Pricewise you could get an E5, 9-18, 12-60, 50 macro, 50-200, FL50r, and EC14 for approximately $5,050 if you buy it all new in the US. The middle tier lenses probably give you the best value. You could likely shave off $800-1000 buying used lenses. A quick addition of weight puts this grouping of gear at around 8 lbs. So with a bag and some other items you'll probably be in the 10lb range. I consider this a good all purpose kit at 9-283 mm (18-566mm FF FOV) and would work good for
You are right, this is a perfect range. ActuallyI need not more than 200-300mm in FF camera.

traveling, hiking, camping, etc especially in areas where you could use weather/dustproofing. The Pentax system might be worth a look for the same reason.
Olympus is ok for sports and action, low light, etc if you know the limitations of the system. It will make you work more and definately won't be the best out there, but it will work.
I am sure you are right . Its where the cost factor kicks in - where wil I get best performance for the lowest amount of money for what I need that will let me grow too.
I carry another bag with an OM2 and 6 lenses I picked up for less than $200. I take 35mm photos or use the lenses on my digital camera. The 12-60 and 50-200 cover the entire range of OM lenses so there's not much reason to adapt them to digital other than because I can and some special circumstances.
Didn't undesand this part. The 12-60 is FF lens and can go on the om2? How aout using OM2 lenses on the e-5? is it worth the trouble?
Personally, if I needed more than what that package could deliver I would move to FF. A D700 or 5DmkII will run you about $2,300-$2,500 body only. I don't know what lenses to recommend or what the systems would weigh. If I did buy into something like a DX system I'd only buy FX lenses since I like better lenses and would eventually have an eye on a FF camera.
finished reading your post and flet like my wife is telling me "you look fine" (meaning, I look barely ok and she could improve or replace me) Actually this is the impression I get from most.

--
Ruvy
http://www.ruvyamir.co.il
recent albums at:
http://www.ruvyamir.co.il/gallery , http://picasaweb.google.com/home?tab=mq
older: http://www.pbase.com/ruvy ,
 
It was a very moving experience to receive so many pros and cons with eyes widely open. I don't know what to do - enough interest was generated here so I will go to try it and learn more + wait for the real review on this site but can't deny that with the interest some significant doubts I had when started this thread proved to be a real concern - something that sooner or later I'll have to settled.

thanks again - it has been a treat to be your guest.

Ruvy

P.S. I'll no longer be following this thread until I get some hands on experience.

--
Ruvy
http://www.ruvyamir.co.il
recent albums at:
http://www.ruvyamir.co.il/gallery , http://picasaweb.google.com/home?tab=mq
older: http://www.pbase.com/ruvy ,
 
I carry another bag with an OM2 and 6 lenses I picked up for less than $200. I take 35mm photos or use the lenses on my digital camera. The 12-60 and 50-200 cover the entire range of OM lenses so there's not much reason to adapt them to digital other than because I can and some special circumstances.
Didn't undesand this part. The 12-60 is FF lens and can go on the om2? How aout using OM2 lenses on the e-5? is it worth the trouble?

Ruvy
The 12-60 is for 4/3.

I use an OM2 film camera when I feel the urge to take FF photos and have an adapter to mount the OM lenses on the 4/3 camera. I don't adapt FF lenses to the digital 4/3 very often because I find its usually not necessary. There is no need to adapt my OM lenses to 4/3 since the 12-60 and 50-200mm digital lenses cover all of the range of lenses I have in the OM system at approximately the same apertures; and they auto focus.

My point is the HG digital lenses provide a large range of focal lengths with 3-4 lenses in a weater sealed package. The E5 is just a little expensive right now for some. Pricing out entire systems from scratch like I did before may provide better information.
 
Thank you olyflyer
You're welcome.
Loved you string 2x and 1/2 time thing - its a nice word game and good illustration but I have no doubt you understood my concern.
I am glad you like some play wiith words.

Yes, I understand your concerns, but it is difficult to say if you would notice any difference between the larger APS-C and the smaller 4/3. I notice the differences, but that's personal. Of course, the larger the sensor the larger and more obvious the difference becomes, but again, as Seth said, the difference between the P&S sensors and FT are really huge, about as huge as between the 4/3 and the FF.
As to your warnings about OM usage on e-5 it is very important piece of information - many thanks for it and the rest of your post
It was not meant as a warning. I used many legacy lenses and they are perfectly usable as long as you know what to expect. I would have welcomed the focus assist more than the IS since what's the point of having IS if the image is blurred due to bad focus? Anyway, if you plan to use legacy lenses, good luck. OM lenses are cheap, but the price is a lesser quality than the digital in most cases. My favorite was an OM 100/2.8 and my second best was an old Nikon 50/1.4. Buy the digital lenses if you can afford them.

PS. I am sorry for the unwanted and unwelcome interference from another person in this thread. He hates every Nikon user, so please excuse him.
--
Never forget that only dead fish swim with the stream.
(Malcolm Muggeridge)
 
It was a very moving experience to receive so many pros and cons with eyes widely open. I don't know what to do - enough interest was generated here so I will go to try it and learn more + wait for the real review on this site but can't deny that with the interest some significant doubts I had when started this thread proved to be a real concern - something that sooner or later I'll have to settled.

thanks again - it has been a treat to be your guest.

Ruvy

P.S. I'll no longer be following this thread until I get some hands on experience.

--
Ruvy
http://www.ruvyamir.co.il
recent albums at:
You should have realised by now, that with a DSLR, its all about the lenses, and what they'll achieve. You said initially, that you wanted the camera for portraits, landscape and still life. Unfortunately four thirds is not considered good for portraits, compared to full frame cameras. The reason why is depth of field (bokeh issues) and also the lenses available. Some fine photographers take very good portraits with 43rd's though. But often with some interesting lenses, such the Panasonic sold Leica 14-150 lens, the early versions of which were a bit brighter. The slightly slower version of that lens (and not as collectable) sells for $1,300. But step back and using the zoom, one can get a good portrait. Ultimately it all comes down to the photographers, not the gear.

However the biggest problem for you would be landscape, due not just the lenses, but also the sensor kicks you in the guts there. The 7-14 F4.0 is a great lens, but at 7mm its a fisheye, and its competition is on FF cameras 16-35mmm F2.8 lenses, that can be very sharp at F4.0. And for early morning work on a FF camera, or late dusk shots, the FF with such lenses has an enormous advantage IMO.

Some people have have said how expensive the FF camera are. But look here: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/compare_post.asp

You'll notice that a Canon 5DMKII can be bought new for around $2k; and a Sony A-850 for less.

One might wonder - how come the A-5 is $1,700, when the Nikon D7000's price is $1,200? The answer most of us think, is that those who will buy the E-5, already have an investment in Olympus glass. And hence the E-5 will benefit them. Most also know that the E-30 took better pictures than the E-3 ... so the E-5 will be a superior camera to the E-30, and weatherproof. Hence owners of Oly glass will be better off.

However if one is in love with the 43'rds concept, I'd be looking to a GH-2 myself. Or hoping for a prosumer / in built hand grip Olympus micro 43.
 
you know it is impossible for you to wait the review of E5 in depreview.. cause E3 was reviewed about a year after the camera being released.. it is vary unfair, i don't know why ? so you better check out for yourself
 
you know it is impossible for you to wait the review of E5 in depreview.. cause E3 was reviewed about a year after the camera being released.. it is vary unfair, i don't know why ? so you better check out for yourself
DPReview has said that they've got an E-5 and the review is in progress. It is being delayed by the move to Seattle.

They've not even started yet on the Nikon D7000 review, fwiw.
 
You assume that m4/3 will never go professional, and that the EVF option of 4/3 is non-professional.
Fact 1 is:

Oly will either continue to make 4/3 cameras ( perhaps EVF ) or m4/3 will go professional.

Oly said that Oly will continue to make 4/3 cameras ( perhaps EVF ) AND m4/3 will go hig-end, but even I dont believe all Oly said

Fact 2 is:

IF you see the future in 10 years in the EVF systems ( and I see this ) then Oly is the only system where

a. fast-AF DSLR lenses ( autofocus in CDAF and perhaps a possible phase AF ) are mountable to the new system
b. you can choose between 2 manufacturers, Panny and Oly

There are 5 companies out today which officially see the future in EVF systems: Oly, Panny, Sony, Ricoh and Samsung.

Here the Oly(Panny) system is the system best integrated with current DSLRs. Pehaps also Sony, but Sony first has to choose if they go NEX mount or that A55 route, so the future is more certain at 4/3 / m4/3 !!

cheers

Mr.NoFlash
To be perfectly blunt...NO. Right now there is NO clear picture what future there is, if any for 4:3. I have a pretty complete system and I like it very much, but I would not invest in it again.

M 4:3 seems to be where Olympus is headed. If small and light is your primary need than that is probably the best game in town. Even there I'd look at Panasonic as I think for the moment at least they offer a better system.

If you need professional level equipment, then I'd have to say look elsewhere. What we have right now with 4:3 is excellent. Build of the E-3 and E-5 is as good as anything you can buy. The top two levels of glass are unsurpassed. But the system is no longer being developed extensively and the cameras are rapidly becoming obsolete.

At least this is my take on it. Opinions vary.
--
BJM
 
You assume that m4/3 will never go professional, and that the EVF option of 4/3 is non-professional.
Fact 1 is:

Oly will either continue to make 4/3 cameras ( perhaps EVF ) or m4/3 will go professional.

Oly said that Oly will continue to make 4/3 cameras ( perhaps EVF ) AND m4/3 will go hig-end, but even I dont believe all Oly said

Fact 2 is:

IF you see the future in 10 years in the EVF systems ( and I see this ) then Oly is the only system where

a. fast-AF DSLR lenses ( autofocus in CDAF and perhaps a possible phase AF ) are mountable to the new system
b. you can choose between 2 manufacturers, Panny and Oly

There are 5 companies out today which officially see the future in EVF systems: Oly, Panny, Sony, Ricoh and Samsung.

Here the Oly(Panny) system is the system best integrated with current DSLRs. Pehaps also Sony, but Sony first has to choose if they go NEX mount or that A55 route, so the future is more certain at 4/3 / m4/3 !!
So:

For people who see that the long-term future is EVF and not OVF, a preliminary move to 4/3 ( with mostly CDAF able lenses as the 14-54 or Leica-25, also 9-18 and 70-300 and the kit lenses ) is a perfect move
cheers

Mr.NoFlash
To be perfectly blunt...NO. Right now there is NO clear picture what future there is, if any for 4:3. I have a pretty complete system and I like it very much, but I would not invest in it again.

M 4:3 seems to be where Olympus is headed. If small and light is your primary need than that is probably the best game in town. Even there I'd look at Panasonic as I think for the moment at least they offer a better system.

If you need professional level equipment, then I'd have to say look elsewhere. What we have right now with 4:3 is excellent. Build of the E-3 and E-5 is as good as anything you can buy. The top two levels of glass are unsurpassed. But the system is no longer being developed extensively and the cameras are rapidly becoming obsolete.

At least this is my take on it. Opinions vary.
 
Hi ruvy, it seem that you use to have Sigma SD14 right ? if you heve ever experience with sigma camera system, i think you will have no problem with olympus system, from what i heard that sigma camera had worse noise handling at high ISO setting, i think E5 is better.. anyway we still have ultra wide angle lens (UWA) like 7-14mm
 
Hmmm I though the photographs it take are meant to look better in jpg format. Most SLR pros shoot jpg. If you need MP, shallow DOF then probably it ain' your thing. If you need smaller zooms, weather sealing, sharp optics, quality jpgs etc... Then it could be your thing...
 
ten years down the road. I stand by my statement that there is NO clear vision of where 4:3 is heading...if anywhere.

When Oly introduced the E-1 it WAS meant to be for the professional photographer.
There were some who chose to use it....but not very many.

Definition of a professional camera....one with which you make money. I made money

with my OM system. And others. I do make money with my current E system, although it's not my primary source of income.

The point here is would you invest heavily in 4:3 if you were just starting out in serious photography. I wouldn't and I wouldn't recommend that anyone else do so either.

There are simply better systems available at about the same cost. I am not saying

I don't like my E system. It suits me fine, but I don't think I'll be adding anything to it
in the future unless I can see a valid reason to do so.

As far as EVF cameras go, they may well be the future. I suppose both Canon and Nikon are perfectly capable of doing EVFs if they see the need. Don't think Oly or Panny are the only folks looking into that.
--
BJM
 
I DON"T like my E system when I meant to say I DO Like my E system.
--
BJM
 
Decide what lenses you would own. Compare the ENTIRE system with the alternatives (both cost and reviews). Olympus has some unique lenses which is why many of us are here.

For landscape you may want the 11-22mm, or 7-14mm...
For portraits the 50mm f2, or 35-100mm or 50-200mm...

If you plan on using only legacy lenses that's another story.
 
--
BJM
 

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