A Petition to Epson: We Want Duotone B&W!!

tom jacobson · Oct 30, 2002

Epson, why should the buyers of your fine new printers have to pay for third party rips to get good B&W results? You have claimed that the 2200/7600/9600 give perfect monochrome prints using the color Ultrachrome set, yet most photographers I have talked to are not happy with the results. Why are B&W fans not given the option to make duotones with the two black inks? Why do we have to purchase a RIP that costs $2,000 to print with the two black inks only? We want the purity of color and tone that using only black inks will bring, yet you deny us the opportunity to use the inks that we are paying for. Here we have the hardware to create duotone B&W, two black inks, a dark and a light, and we cannot use them! It is ridiculous! We the undersigned petition Epson to come up with the firmware to allow B&W in two tones of black. You can accomplish this in a matter of a week's time. We demand equal use of our printers. Why should the color users get the use of the light black, while the B&W purists are denied its use and forced to print in one black only to get a decent monochrome print? Owners of these printers unite! I will make sure that proper people at Epson read this thread and responses of those who post follow ups. Sign On!!!! If we can get 100 people to add their names to this petition, we will get Epson's attention, I assure you!!

TJ

Frostfrog · Oct 31, 2002

Yes! Yes! Mr. Jacobsen is 100 percent right on! I first read about the 2200 in June and was particularly excited about the two black inks and the promise that this would improve upon the Epson printer's ability to do black and white. Since that time, I have returned to the two local dealers repeatedly and until last Sunday was repeatedly told that the printers were out of stock. Sunday, I found a printer! I snatched it up and brought it home!

What a terrible disappointment! Don't misunderstand me - the color is absolutely wonderful. The trouble is, when you print black and white, you get color, too. You get this excellent gradation of tone, but always there is a tint to it (and, if you are trying to print straight black, a rather hideous tint - magenta - at that). If there is any way to print a good, solid black, I have yet to find it.

This is absurd. Do what Mr. Jaobsen suggests and provide me the ability to print excellent black and white and you will keep me as an Epson customer, as I have been for four years now. Try to force me to buy a $2000 rip to do so and the 2200 I just purchased will likely be the last Epson product I pick up. I will replace it with a machine that will do good black and white as soon as possible.

tom jacobson said:
Epson, why should the buyers of your fine new printers have to pay
for third party rips to get good B&W results? You have claimed
that the 2200/7600/9600 give perfect monochrome prints using the
color Ultrachrome set, yet most photographers I have talked to are
not happy with the results. Why are B&W fans not given the option
to make duotones with the two black inks? Why do we have to
purchase a RIP that costs $2,000 to print with the two black inks
only? We want the purity of color and tone that using only black
inks will bring, yet you deny us the opportunity to use the inks
that we are paying for. Here we have the hardware to create
duotone B&W, two black inks, a dark and a light, and we cannot use
them! It is ridiculous! We the undersigned petition Epson to
come up with the firmware to allow B&W in two tones of black. You
can accomplish this in a matter of a week's time. We demand equal
use of our printers. Why should the color users get the use of the
light black, while the B&W purists are denied its use and forced to
print in one black only to get a decent monochrome print? Owners
of these printers unite! I will make sure that proper people at
Epson read this thread and responses of those who post follow ups.
Sign On!!!! If we can get 100 people to add their names to this
petition, we will get Epson's attention, I assure you!!

TJ

jim collum · Oct 31, 2002

well. actually the RIP is $495 for the 2200.

Frostfrog said:
What a terrible disappointment! Don't misunderstand me - the color
is absolutely wonderful. The trouble is, when you print black and
white, you get color, too. You get this excellent gradation of
tone, but always there is a tint to it (and, if you are trying to
print straight black, a rather hideous tint - magenta - at that).
If there is any way to print a good, solid black, I have yet to
find it.

This is absurd. Do what Mr. Jaobsen suggests and provide me the
ability to print excellent black and white and you will keep me as
an Epson customer, as I have been for four years now. Try to force
me to buy a $2000 rip to do so and the 2200 I just purchased will
likely be the last Epson product I pick up. I will replace it with
a machine that will do good black and white as soon as possible.

tom jacobson said:

Epson, why should the buyers of your fine new printers have to pay
for third party rips to get good B&W results? You have claimed
that the 2200/7600/9600 give perfect monochrome prints using the
color Ultrachrome set, yet most photographers I have talked to are
not happy with the results. Why are B&W fans not given the option
to make duotones with the two black inks? Why do we have to
purchase a RIP that costs $2,000 to print with the two black inks
only? We want the purity of color and tone that using only black
inks will bring, yet you deny us the opportunity to use the inks
that we are paying for. Here we have the hardware to create
duotone B&W, two black inks, a dark and a light, and we cannot use
them! It is ridiculous! We the undersigned petition Epson to
come up with the firmware to allow B&W in two tones of black. You
can accomplish this in a matter of a week's time. We demand equal
use of our printers. Why should the color users get the use of the
light black, while the B&W purists are denied its use and forced to
print in one black only to get a decent monochrome print? Owners
of these printers unite! I will make sure that proper people at
Epson read this thread and responses of those who post follow ups.
Sign On!!!! If we can get 100 people to add their names to this
petition, we will get Epson's attention, I assure you!!

TJ

Click to expand...

--
jim collum
http://www.jcollum.com

John Rushton · Oct 31, 2002

Hi,

Just a thought. Have you tried using the duotone facilities from within photohop, or other image manipulation software?
Best Wishes,
John

jim collum said:
Frostfrog said:

What a terrible disappointment! Don't misunderstand me - the color
is absolutely wonderful. The trouble is, when you print black and
white, you get color, too. You get this excellent gradation of
tone, but always there is a tint to it (and, if you are trying to
print straight black, a rather hideous tint - magenta - at that).
If there is any way to print a good, solid black, I have yet to
find it.

This is absurd. Do what Mr. Jaobsen suggests and provide me the
ability to print excellent black and white and you will keep me as
an Epson customer, as I have been for four years now. Try to force
me to buy a $2000 rip to do so and the 2200 I just purchased will
likely be the last Epson product I pick up. I will replace it with
a machine that will do good black and white as soon as possible.

tom jacobson said:

Epson, why should the buyers of your fine new printers have to pay
for third party rips to get good B&W results? You have claimed
that the 2200/7600/9600 give perfect monochrome prints using the
color Ultrachrome set, yet most photographers I have talked to are
not happy with the results. Why are B&W fans not given the option
to make duotones with the two black inks? Why do we have to
purchase a RIP that costs $2,000 to print with the two black inks
only? We want the purity of color and tone that using only black
inks will bring, yet you deny us the opportunity to use the inks
that we are paying for. Here we have the hardware to create
duotone B&W, two black inks, a dark and a light, and we cannot use
them! It is ridiculous! We the undersigned petition Epson to
come up with the firmware to allow B&W in two tones of black. You
can accomplish this in a matter of a week's time. We demand equal
use of our printers. Why should the color users get the use of the
light black, while the B&W purists are denied its use and forced to
print in one black only to get a decent monochrome print? Owners
of these printers unite! I will make sure that proper people at
Epson read this thread and responses of those who post follow ups.
Sign On!!!! If we can get 100 people to add their names to this
petition, we will get Epson's attention, I assure you!!

TJ

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

--
jim collum
http://www.jcollum.com

--
John

Melanie Kipp · Oct 31, 2002

Yes, Epson, Please give me the ability to use the light and dark black inks together.... it would be a dream come true. I own 4 ( yes, 4 ! ) Epson printers.... I am a repeat customer and I use only Epson inks/ papers...
I do a lot of B&W work.....

--
Please visit me at:
http://www.caughtintimephotography.com

alexpix · Oct 31, 2002

I bought a 2200 after the local EPSON rep told me it would solve my black and white printing problems with my 2000P... it has not done that unlees megenta toned b&w is what Epson beleives that is a proper tone for b&w prints.

Please pay attention to our needs as b&w users. At about $500 a litre for ink sets it would seem your interest to encourage more printing than less.

Happy snaps
Steven Alexander

eleanor brown · Oct 31, 2002

yes epson--I have the 2200 and can't get acceptable black and white results using the color inks---no really discerning printer can. give us a software patch that will allow us to use only the black and light black inks!!!! eleanor

Steven Alexander said:
I bought a 2200 after the local EPSON rep told me it would solve
my black and white printing problems with my 2000P... it has not
done that unlees megenta toned b&w is what Epson beleives that is a
proper tone for b&w prints.

Please pay attention to our needs as b&w users. At about $500 a
litre for ink sets it would seem your interest to encourage more
printing than less.

Happy snaps
Steven Alexander

Joseph S Wisniewski · Oct 31, 2002

tom jacobson said:
Epson, why should the buyers of your fine new printers have to pay
for third party rips to get good B&W results? You have claimed
that the 2200/7600/9600 give perfect monochrome prints using the
color Ultrachrome set, yet most photographers I have talked to are
not happy with the results.

I agree. But there are ways to fix that. The Epson Gray Balancer software (included with the printer in the Eurpoean and Asian markets, but not in the North American) can give you a respectably neutral B&W print.

Download a copy and try it out.

tom jacobson said:
Why are B&W fans not given the option
to make duotones with the two black inks?

Because it would not work well. Consider, is the black really neutral at all print densities? Is the "light black" neutral? It's not uncommon for blasks to be a bit magenta, or for black to be printed over magenta in a CMYK process (black over magenta looks "blacker than black").

If the ink is "neutral", it it "your neutral". Do you like your prints cold or warm?

People who sell inksets for duotone, quadtone, or hextone printing usually stock at least 3 sets, cold, warm, and neutral.

Gray balancer can give you all that. So can a good profile.

But remember that either of these solutions will use all five colors to help make the two blacks more neutral. And it's the yellow that Andrew Rodney claims is the principle cause of metamerism. A RIP lets you make neutral B&W, with adjustable tones, using 2 blacks + 4 colors, and leaving out yellow totally.

tom jacobson said:
Why do we have to
purchase a RIP that costs $2,000 to print with the two black inks
only? We want the purity of color and tone that using only black
inks will bring, yet you deny us the opportunity to use the inks
that we are paying for.

Again, I don't think that's the answer you need.

tom jacobson said:
Here we have the hardware to create
duotone B&W, two black inks, a dark and a light, and we cannot use
them! It is ridiculous! We the undersigned petition Epson to
come up with the firmware to allow B&W in two tones of black.

Actually, the firmware has no problem with this, or the RIP couldn't work. It's a new driver that you need.

tom jacobson said:
You
can accomplish this in a matter of a week's time.

Fully quality assured? I don't think so.

tom jacobson said:
We demand equal use of our printers.

Good petitions don't "demand". Such language tends to cause them to be ignored, no matter how many signatures you have.

tom jacobson said:
Why should the color users get the use of the
light black, while the B&W purists are denied its use and forced to
print in one black only to get a decent monochrome print?

Personally, I don't like the tone of the "black only" mode.

tom jacobson said:
Owners
of these printers unite! I will make sure that proper people at
Epson read this thread and responses of those who post follow ups.

Well, they've seen 10 times that many posts already in the many "we want Gray Balancer" threads, and they haven't made that software (which already exists, so would be zero work for Epson) downloadable in the US yet.

Ciao!

Joe

tom jacobson · Oct 31, 2002

Joe, I have printed plenty with black ink only. There is no color change from dark to light. Only problem is you don't get the dot coverage that two blacks will give. The higher tones get dotty. Using two black inks will help that problem.

TJ

Joseph S. Wisniewski said:
tom jacobson said:

Epson, why should the buyers of your fine new printers have to pay
for third party rips to get good B&W results? You have claimed
that the 2200/7600/9600 give perfect monochrome prints using the
color Ultrachrome set, yet most photographers I have talked to are
not happy with the results.

Click to expand...

I agree. But there are ways to fix that. The Epson Gray Balancer
software (included with the printer in the Eurpoean and Asian
markets, but not in the North American) can give you a respectably
neutral B&W print.

Download a copy and try it out.

Joseph S Wisniewski said:

Why are B&W fans not given the option
to make duotones with the two black inks?

Click to expand...

Because it would not work well. Consider, is the black really
neutral at all print densities? Is the "light black" neutral? It's
not uncommon for blasks to be a bit magenta, or for black to be
printed over magenta in a CMYK process (black over magenta looks
"blacker than black").

If the ink is "neutral", it it "your neutral". Do you like your
prints cold or warm?

People who sell inksets for duotone, quadtone, or hextone printing
usually stock at least 3 sets, cold, warm, and neutral.

Gray balancer can give you all that. So can a good profile.

But remember that either of these solutions will use all five
colors to help make the two blacks more neutral. And it's the
yellow that Andrew Rodney claims is the principle cause of
metamerism. A RIP lets you make neutral B&W, with adjustable tones,
using 2 blacks + 4 colors, and leaving out yellow totally.

Joseph S Wisniewski said:

Why do we have to
purchase a RIP that costs $2,000 to print with the two black inks
only? We want the purity of color and tone that using only black
inks will bring, yet you deny us the opportunity to use the inks
that we are paying for.

Click to expand...

Again, I don't think that's the answer you need.

Joseph S Wisniewski said:

Here we have the hardware to create
duotone B&W, two black inks, a dark and a light, and we cannot use
them! It is ridiculous! We the undersigned petition Epson to
come up with the firmware to allow B&W in two tones of black.

Click to expand...

Actually, the firmware has no problem with this, or the RIP
couldn't work. It's a new driver that you need.

Joseph S Wisniewski said:

You
can accomplish this in a matter of a week's time.

Click to expand...

Fully quality assured? I don't think so.

Joseph S Wisniewski said:

We demand equal use of our printers.

Click to expand...

Good petitions don't "demand". Such language tends to cause them to
be ignored, no matter how many signatures you have.

Joseph S Wisniewski said:

Why should the color users get the use of the
light black, while the B&W purists are denied its use and forced to
print in one black only to get a decent monochrome print?

Click to expand...

Personally, I don't like the tone of the "black only" mode.

Joseph S Wisniewski said:

Owners
of these printers unite! I will make sure that proper people at
Epson read this thread and responses of those who post follow ups.

Click to expand...

Well, they've seen 10 times that many posts already in the many "we
want Gray Balancer" threads, and they haven't made that software
(which already exists, so would be zero work for Epson)
downloadable in the US yet.

Ciao!

Joe

--
TJ

Qwerty13 · Oct 31, 2002

I spoke to an Epson rep and asked him why Epson does not make "gray" inks for better B&W printing. He said there is not enough of a market for b&w printing. Most people prefer color. That's why color film outsells b&w and why most of odays movies are in color. The b&w prints you get from an Epson are acceptable to me, but that is because when I printed in my own darkroom I only printed multi contrast RC paper. I never printed Seagull or Oriental fiber based graded warm tone paper. So the market seems to be limited to just the people who want "fine art" b&w which is not enough in their opinion. Maybe it's enough of a market for Lysonic but not Ep$on.

Diana Lundin · Oct 31, 2002

I think Epson sold us a false bill of goods with the 2200. We were told it would print neutral black and whites. It does not. My first B&W prints were all magenta hued. After using the gray balancer, they're all blue or green. Ridiculous. The black ink only setting gives me brown tones. I replaced my 1270, which prints fantastic color, with the 2200 because of the assurance that black and white prints would be neutral. I should have saved my money. The 1270 was fine for my purposes without the benefit of B&W.

--
Diana
http://www.pbase.com/dlundin

William Carter118959 · Oct 31, 2002

Joseph S Wisniewski said:
And it's the yellow that Andrew Rodney claims is the principle cause of
metamerism. A RIP lets you make neutral B&W, with adjustable tones,
using 2 blacks + 4 colors, and leaving out yellow totally.

There just has to be a simple answer to what I'm about to say:

(1) if it's true that the yellow ink causes the color shift/metamerism, why can't I just take the yellow ink cartridge OUT of my 2200 when I print B&W? Will the 2200 not print unless all 7 cartridges are in place?

(2) Or, how about this: if the 2200 won't print unless all 7 inks are in place, why not put an EMPTY yellow cartridge in when printing B&W, and ignore the "no ink" warning?

(3) Or, if neither of these would work, Epson could easily revise the driver to allow you to turn the yellow ink "off" when printing B&W.

(4) Or, finally, a 3rd party company, rather than designing additional gray ink cartridges that may clog your printer (plus software to turn the color inks off), could just hack the chip so that the printer thinks a full yellow cartridge is inserted, as opposed to what's really there (whcih is a "dummy" empty cartridge that has the "yellow ink" chip, but no actual yellow ink in it).

As I say, the problem just can't be as simple as "it's the yellow ink" because someone smarter than me would have already thought of what I said above.... Still, I'm going to try #1 above tonight and #2 above as soon as my yellow ink runs out, which will be soon.

Joseph S Wisniewski · Oct 31, 2002

William Carter said:
There just has to be a simple answer to what I'm about to say:

(1) if it's true that the yellow ink causes the color
shift/metamerism, why can't I just take the yellow ink cartridge
OUT of my 2200 when I print B&W? Will the 2200 not print unless
all 7 cartridges are in place?

exactly.

William Carter118959 said:
(2) Or, how about this: if the 2200 won't print unless all 7 inks
are in place, why not put an EMPTY yellow cartridge in when
printing B&W, and ignore the "no ink" warning?

You can't. To protect the printer, it won't print when a cart is empty.

William Carter118959 said:
(3) Or, if neither of these would work, Epson could easily revise
the driver to allow you to turn the yellow ink "off" when printing
B&W.

True, they could. It would require new internal profiles in the driver, but it could be done.

William Carter118959 said:
(4) Or, finally, a 3rd party company, rather than designing
additional gray ink cartridges that may clog your printer (plus
software to turn the color inks off), could just hack the chip so
that the printer thinks a full yellow cartridge is inserted, as
opposed to what's really there (whcih is a "dummy" empty cartridge
that has the "yellow ink" chip, but no actual yellow ink in it).

That would be very bad. If the firmware thought there was ink there, it would attempt to use it. If an Epson actually prints on an empty cart, the print head goes dry, ink hardens in the nozzels and metering chamber, and it needs to go in for repair.

William Carter118959 said:
As I say, the problem just can't be as simple as "it's the yellow
ink" because someone smarter than me would have already thought of
what I said above.... Still, I'm going to try #1 above tonight and

2 above as soon as my yellow ink runs out, which will be soon.

Be careful.

Ciao!

Joe

Frostfrog · Oct 31, 2002

That may be, Jim, but even that is a $495 RIP-off. The 2200 has been promoted as a superior black and white printer, thanks to the two inks. In truth, as it comes, it does not print black and white at all.

jim collum said:
Frostfrog said:

What a terrible disappointment! Don't misunderstand me - the color
is absolutely wonderful. The trouble is, when you print black and
white, you get color, too. You get this excellent gradation of
tone, but always there is a tint to it (and, if you are trying to
print straight black, a rather hideous tint - magenta - at that).
If there is any way to print a good, solid black, I have yet to
find it.

This is absurd. Do what Mr. Jaobsen suggests and provide me the
ability to print excellent black and white and you will keep me as
an Epson customer, as I have been for four years now. Try to force
me to buy a $2000 rip to do so and the 2200 I just purchased will
likely be the last Epson product I pick up. I will replace it with
a machine that will do good black and white as soon as possible.

tom jacobson said:

Epson, why should the buyers of your fine new printers have to pay
for third party rips to get good B&W results? You have claimed
that the 2200/7600/9600 give perfect monochrome prints using the
color Ultrachrome set, yet most photographers I have talked to are
not happy with the results. Why are B&W fans not given the option
to make duotones with the two black inks? Why do we have to
purchase a RIP that costs $2,000 to print with the two black inks
only? We want the purity of color and tone that using only black
inks will bring, yet you deny us the opportunity to use the inks
that we are paying for. Here we have the hardware to create
duotone B&W, two black inks, a dark and a light, and we cannot use
them! It is ridiculous! We the undersigned petition Epson to
come up with the firmware to allow B&W in two tones of black. You
can accomplish this in a matter of a week's time. We demand equal
use of our printers. Why should the color users get the use of the
light black, while the B&W purists are denied its use and forced to
print in one black only to get a decent monochrome print? Owners
of these printers unite! I will make sure that proper people at
Epson read this thread and responses of those who post follow ups.
Sign On!!!! If we can get 100 people to add their names to this
petition, we will get Epson's attention, I assure you!!

TJ

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

--
jim collum
http://www.jcollum.com

Idclick1 · Oct 31, 2002

Why don't you people having problems making good B&W prints do the same thing I did with the Epson 2000P?

It took me some time to do about an hour, but I created a custom neutral color profile for B&W for the printer it works wonderful. With the 2200 it should be even better with 2 black inks.

If you do it right the printer will only call up for the black inks when printing.

The secret is getting a good netural B&W print the first time when you set up your custom color profile and save it. Then you have duck soup all the way. Sometimes you may have to tweek your profile just a little not often.

Bob

tom jacobson said:
Epson, why should the buyers of your fine new printers have to pay
for third party rips to get good B&W results? You have claimed
that the 2200/7600/9600 give perfect monochrome prints using the
color Ultrachrome set, yet most photographers I have talked to are
not happy with the results. Why are B&W fans not given the option
to make duotones with the two black inks? Why do we have to
purchase a RIP that costs $2,000 to print with the two black inks
only? We want the purity of color and tone that using only black
inks will bring, yet you deny us the opportunity to use the inks
that we are paying for. Here we have the hardware to create
duotone B&W, two black inks, a dark and a light, and we cannot use
them! It is ridiculous! We the undersigned petition Epson to
come up with the firmware to allow B&W in two tones of black. You
can accomplish this in a matter of a week's time. We demand equal
use of our printers. Why should the color users get the use of the
light black, while the B&W purists are denied its use and forced to
print in one black only to get a decent monochrome print? Owners
of these printers unite! I will make sure that proper people at
Epson read this thread and responses of those who post follow ups.
Sign On!!!! If we can get 100 people to add their names to this
petition, we will get Epson's attention, I assure you!!

TJ

Melanie Kipp · Oct 31, 2002

Bob ... sounds good... describe how you did it?
Pretty please?--
Please visit me at:
http://www.caughtintimephotography.com

Idclick1 · Oct 31, 2002

Diana Lundin said:
I think Epson sold us a false bill of goods with the 2200. We were
told it would print neutral black and whites. It does not. My first
B&W prints were all magenta hued. After using the gray balancer,
they're all blue or green. Ridiculous. The black ink only setting
gives me brown tones. I replaced my 1270, which prints fantastic
color, with the 2200 because of the assurance that black and white
prints would be neutral. I should have saved my money. The 1270 was
fine for my purposes without the benefit of B&W.

--
Diana
http://www.pbase.com/dlundin

Why don't you make custom nutral B&W color profile for your printer?

Make one good B&W neutral print in the Custom mode then save the color settings. Give that profile a name like "Nutral B&W" then use it every time you make B&W prints.

I hope you are not just using your printer in the auto mode only because if you are than you are missing out on about 50% of what your printer can do.

Bob

Idclick1 · Oct 31, 2002

Melanie Kipp said:
Bob ... sounds good... describe how you did it?
Pretty please?--
Please visit me at:
http://www.caughtintimephotography.com

Simply set up a custom profile after you do a ring around of prints to find a nutral setting then save save it. give it a name like Nutral B&W.
Then every time you you make B&W prints call up that custom profile.

You cannot do this this it the auto print mode. If you are only using the auto print mode on your printer then you are missing out on 50% of what your Printer can do!

Bob

Bob

tom jacobson · Oct 31, 2002

I intend to bring this thread to the attention of the people at Epson. Please start a different thread to discuss profiles and other solutions. The people signing on to this petition want to be able to use both black inks in a B&W mode. It is a simple request. Profiles, etc are fine, but that is not the issue here. TJ

Idclick1 said:
Melanie Kipp said:

Bob ... sounds good... describe how you did it?
Pretty please?--
Please visit me at:
http://www.caughtintimephotography.com

Click to expand...

Simply set up a custom profile after you do a ring around of prints
to find a nutral setting then save save it. give it a name like
Nutral B&W.
Then every time you you make B&W prints call up that custom profile.
You cannot do this this it the auto print mode. If you are only
using the auto print mode on your printer then you are missing out
on 50% of what your Printer can do!

Bob

Bob

--
TJ

Joseph S Wisniewski · Nov 1, 2002

tom jacobson said:
I intend to bring this thread to the attention of the people at
Epson.

It's proper, when doing a petition, for the canvaser to actually do some work: wording a proper petition, researching the issue at hand, verifying that the people who signed the petition actually exist, getting the names into some sort of presentable form, etc.

Here's an example of someone else on these forums doing it right:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1021&message=3545422

And here's the actual petition.

http://d100.topcities.com/discussion/firmwarepetition.html

Note, the polite language, and the hundreds of verified names. Including what equipment (germane to the petition) that they actually owned was a nice touch, but not necessary.

If you want to do a little less work (and have a little lower quality output) you might try here:

http://www.petitiononline.com

If you're trying to convince Epson that there is a real need for something, be professional about it.

tom jacobson said:
Please start a different thread to discuss profiles and
other solutions.

But this is a "discussion thread". You notice that you're only gotten three signatures (people with real names) in two days of canvasing.

tom jacobson said:
The people signing on to this petition want to be
able to use both black inks in a B&W mode.

No, the people signing this petition want to "get good B&W results", according to the petition. you have presented the concept of using duotones with the existing 2 black inks as a solution to this problem.

I maintain that your proposal is insufficiently researched. You can try a simple experiment, to verify this for yourself: the next time you have an empty light black cartridge, open it up, dilute and spray a little ink on your favorite paper (or papers). It's warm, real warm. At full strength, in dots, it makes a convincing black. At reduced strength, it doesn't. (although some say even full strength black only is too brown, others say it's too purple, depending on paper)

tom jacobson said:
It is a simple request.
Profiles, etc are fine, but that is not the issue here. TJ

That is true. But neither is the need to print duotones with the existing ink set. The issue here is the need for some people to "get good B&W results". You know, I know, and Epson knows, that this is a need of a relatively small minority of users. It is up to us to demonstrate to them that, although a small minority, we are still a significant number of users, and that we have a valid complaint. Exactly what form the solution will take (better gray balancer, better profiles, altered light black that actually will work well with duotones, a low cost (or free, bundled) RIP) is up to Epson.

Ciao!

Joe

A Petition to Epson: We Want Duotone B&W!!

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