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S2 Pro Big Problem - See Pictures Inside.

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BillyBilly2000

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Please help me find out the source of the problem.
Two pictures below,

Sample1.jpg has "wave like" over all of the picture.
Condition: RAF, all default setting, 1/3s, F4.5, ISO400, Tripod used.

Sample2.jpg has no "wave like" in picture.
Condition: Normal 6MP, all default setting, 1/6s, F4.5, ISO400, Handhold.

I tried to use RAF and JPEG, Change different lence, switch Microdrive and 512CF card, tested in state park and 3Miles away apartment and all produced same wave problem.

What will bring this strange wave noise to the S2 Pro? The Tripod or the Tripod Pad too tight? The Cellularphone?
Is this S2 Pro defected?

Check here:
http://www.pbase.com/billybilly2000/s2_pro_highlight

or





--
Billy Lin
http://www.pbase.com/billybilly2000/
 
Hy,

reminds me of the waves seen on CRT when my cellular is close and emitting. Could this be the case ?

Regards,

Claude
BillyBilly2000 said:
Please help me find out the source of the problem.
Two pictures below,

Sample1.jpg has "wave like" over all of the picture.
Condition: RAF, all default setting, 1/3s, F4.5, ISO400, Tripod used.

Sample2.jpg has no "wave like" in picture.
Condition: Normal 6MP, all default setting, 1/6s, F4.5, ISO400,
Handhold.

I tried to use RAF and JPEG, Change different lence, switch
Microdrive and 512CF card, tested in state park and 3Miles away
apartment and all produced same wave problem.

What will bring this strange wave noise to the S2 Pro? The Tripod
or the Tripod Pad too tight? The Cellularphone?
Is this S2 Pro defected?

Check here:
http://www.pbase.com/billybilly2000/s2_pro_highlight

or





--
Billy Lin
http://www.pbase.com/billybilly2000/
Click to expand...
--
Claude Rieth
http://computer.team.lu
Hint: Try our photoalbum software, ctPhotoBook, download from our site.
 
My guess is, what you are seeing is the classic "moire" pattern discussed very often here. Shooting in raw makes the problem more noticeable.

Try bringing the image into Photoshop, apply a very slight "Gaussian Blur" to the image to "soften" it and the "wave-like" pattern should be gone.

Don't think there is a problem with your camera.

Cheers
Pete Wong
BillyBilly2000 said:
Please help me find out the source of the problem.
Two pictures below,

Sample1.jpg has "wave like" over all of the picture.
Condition: RAF, all default setting, 1/3s, F4.5, ISO400, Tripod used.

Sample2.jpg has no "wave like" in picture.
Condition: Normal 6MP, all default setting, 1/6s, F4.5, ISO400,
Handhold.

I tried to use RAF and JPEG, Change different lence, switch
Microdrive and 512CF card, tested in state park and 3Miles away
apartment and all produced same wave problem.

What will bring this strange wave noise to the S2 Pro? The Tripod
or the Tripod Pad too tight? The Cellularphone?
Is this S2 Pro defected?

Check here:
http://www.pbase.com/billybilly2000/s2_pro_highlight

or





--
Billy Lin
http://www.pbase.com/billybilly2000/
Click to expand...
 
Pete Wong said:
My guess is, what you are seeing is the classic "moire" pattern
discussed very often here. Shooting in raw makes the problem more
noticeable.

Try bringing the image into Photoshop, apply a very slight
"Gaussian Blur" to the image to "soften" it and the "wave-like"
pattern should be gone.

Don't think there is a problem with your camera.

Cheers
Pete Wong
Click to expand...
I agree with Pete .....

I see this with another camera I have ... I was very upset - it was very noticeable with pictures with a lot of horizontal lines - for example, the siding on my house. Some full-screen slide show programs it didn't show up .... also, when I use a program such as DEC Enhance that uses the Lanczos 3 algorithm to downsample, that the moire was greatly reduced. When I ran a slide show using Pics2Exe, the full screen shot didn't show the 'waves', and yet when I used other programs (Thumbsplus), the full screen view did show it! So in my case, it was apparent that the downsampling algorithm had an effect.
Also - print the pic - my guess is that it will print just fine.
Let us know!
Regards,
Bill
 
I have seen this when I shoot without the cr123a batteries....
BillyBilly2000 said:
Please help me find out the source of the problem.
Two pictures below,

Sample1.jpg has "wave like" over all of the picture.
Condition: RAF, all default setting, 1/3s, F4.5, ISO400, Tripod used.

Sample2.jpg has no "wave like" in picture.
Condition: Normal 6MP, all default setting, 1/6s, F4.5, ISO400,
Handhold.

I tried to use RAF and JPEG, Change different lence, switch
Microdrive and 512CF card, tested in state park and 3Miles away
apartment and all produced same wave problem.

What will bring this strange wave noise to the S2 Pro? The Tripod
or the Tripod Pad too tight? The Cellularphone?
Is this S2 Pro defected?

Check here:
http://www.pbase.com/billybilly2000/s2_pro_highlight

or





--
Billy Lin
http://www.pbase.com/billybilly2000/
Click to expand...
 
I have experienced the exact same phenomonon when shooting horizontal clapboads. It usually goes away when I change the zoom level on the screen, and almost always goes away when I zoom to 100 percent. And, it doesn't show in print, at least for me.The problem seems worse with 12 MP JPEG.

Do you still have the wavies on your prints? Do you still have them at 6MP JPE level?

Hope this helps.
BillyBilly2000 said:
yomasa said:
Please help me find out the source of the problem.
Two pictures below,

Sample1.jpg has "wave like" over all of the picture.
Condition: RAF, all default setting, 1/3s, F4.5, ISO400, Tripod used.

Sample2.jpg has no "wave like" in picture.
Condition: Normal 6MP, all default setting, 1/6s, F4.5, ISO400,
Handhold.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Moire typically only appears in areas of very high detail, like hair or textured fabric. From looking at the picture, the waves are everywhere, moire wouldn't be.

-Matthew
Bill C said:
Pete Wong said:
My guess is, what you are seeing is the classic "moire" pattern
discussed very often here. Shooting in raw makes the problem more
noticeable.

Try bringing the image into Photoshop, apply a very slight
"Gaussian Blur" to the image to "soften" it and the "wave-like"
pattern should be gone.

Don't think there is a problem with your camera.

Cheers
Pete Wong
Click to expand...
I agree with Pete .....
I see this with another camera I have ... I was very upset - it was
very noticeable with pictures with a lot of horizontal lines - for
example, the siding on my house. Some full-screen slide show
programs it didn't show up .... also, when I use a program such as
DEC Enhance that uses the Lanczos 3 algorithm to downsample, that
the moire was greatly reduced. When I ran a slide show using
Pics2Exe, the full screen shot didn't show the 'waves', and yet
when I used other programs (Thumbsplus), the full screen view did
show it! So in my case, it was apparent that the downsampling
algorithm had an effect.
Also - print the pic - my guess is that it will print just fine.
Let us know!
Regards,
Bill
Click to expand...
 
No this is not moire, moire occurs in areas of high frequency patterns.
Pete Wong said:
Try bringing the image into Photoshop, apply a very slight
"Gaussian Blur" to the image to "soften" it and the "wave-like"
pattern should be gone.

Don't think there is a problem with your camera.

Cheers
Pete Wong
BillyBilly2000 said:
Please help me find out the source of the problem.
Two pictures below,

Sample1.jpg has "wave like" over all of the picture.
Condition: RAF, all default setting, 1/3s, F4.5, ISO400, Tripod used.

Sample2.jpg has no "wave like" in picture.
Condition: Normal 6MP, all default setting, 1/6s, F4.5, ISO400,
Handhold.

I tried to use RAF and JPEG, Change different lence, switch
Microdrive and 512CF card, tested in state park and 3Miles away
apartment and all produced same wave problem.

What will bring this strange wave noise to the S2 Pro? The Tripod
or the Tripod Pad too tight? The Cellularphone?
Is this S2 Pro defected?

Check here:
http://www.pbase.com/billybilly2000/s2_pro_highlight

or





--
Billy Lin
http://www.pbase.com/billybilly2000/
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
Peter
 
I agree not moire. One thing that I have notice is that your CCD is very dirty. Maybe your lens too. There are some very odd area which look like water marks. The odd thing about the marks they look in focus.

I would recommend cleaning your lens and CCD. May find thing improve.
Alex
Nefilim said:
Pete Wong said:
Try bringing the image into Photoshop, apply a very slight
"Gaussian Blur" to the image to "soften" it and the "wave-like"
pattern should be gone.

Don't think there is a problem with your camera.

Cheers
Pete Wong
BillyBilly2000 said:
Please help me find out the source of the problem.
Two pictures below,

Sample1.jpg has "wave like" over all of the picture.
Condition: RAF, all default setting, 1/3s, F4.5, ISO400, Tripod used.

Sample2.jpg has no "wave like" in picture.
Condition: Normal 6MP, all default setting, 1/6s, F4.5, ISO400,
Handhold.

I tried to use RAF and JPEG, Change different lence, switch
Microdrive and 512CF card, tested in state park and 3Miles away
apartment and all produced same wave problem.

What will bring this strange wave noise to the S2 Pro? The Tripod
or the Tripod Pad too tight? The Cellularphone?
Is this S2 Pro defected?

Check here:
http://www.pbase.com/billybilly2000/s2_pro_highlight

or





--
Billy Lin
http://www.pbase.com/billybilly2000/
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
Peter
Click to expand...
 
BillyBilly2000 said:
Sample1.jpg has "wave like" over all of the picture.
Condition: RAF, all default setting, 1/3s, F4.5, ISO400, Tripod used.

Sample2.jpg has no "wave like" in picture.
Condition: Normal 6MP, all default setting, 1/6s, F4.5, ISO400,
Handhold.
Click to expand...
Hard to tell, but the problem is most likely lighting induced. Those aren't continuous on, continuous spectrum lights in your scene, thus shutter speeds play a part in your results. Essentially, you get a "beat pattern" because your shutter speed isn't synced with the light frequency. In the US, the only safe shutter speeds for fluorescent, mercury vapor, and other frequency sensitive lights are 1/125, 1/60, 1/30, and 1/15. And the 1/125 is iffy. In countries with 50 cycle AC, it's a little more difficult with an S2, as it has only 1/2 stop variations, but I'd guess that 1/90, 1/45, 1/23, and 1/12 would be safe. As you get down into the longer speeds (the 1/6 and 1/3 you used), AC line variation starts to be an issue, and some cycles can produce more or different color than the others, which is what I'm guessing happened here.

But I'm guessing.

--
Thom Hogan
author, Nikon Field Guide
author, Nikon Flash Guide
author, Complete Guide to the Nikon D100
author, Complete Guide to the Nikon D1, D1h, & D1x
http://www.bythom.com
 
This looks very strange to me. It is no moire in my opinion. It is no interference with details in the scene because it even shows in out of focus areas.
Tom,

Your explanation would sound very plausible to me if the shutter speed would have been closer to the AC frequency. But with 1/3rd of second, you should have like 20 cycles, and a half more or less should not be noticable in my opinion. I don´t understand why exactly at those low speeds this could be an issue. I don´t get that about the color difference either. Still, the whole picture gets almost the same light exposed, maybe with a difference of 1/20th (about 1/10th of a stop? which should not be noticable I would think, surely not clearly).
I´d appreciate if you could elaborate more.

Thanks,
Jos
Thom Hogan said:
BillyBilly2000 said:
Sample1.jpg has "wave like" over all of the picture.
Condition: RAF, all default setting, 1/3s, F4.5, ISO400, Tripod used.

Sample2.jpg has no "wave like" in picture.
Condition: Normal 6MP, all default setting, 1/6s, F4.5, ISO400,
Handhold.
Click to expand...
Hard to tell, but the problem is most likely lighting induced.
Those aren't continuous on, continuous spectrum lights in your
scene, thus shutter speeds play a part in your results.
Essentially, you get a "beat pattern" because your shutter speed
isn't synced with the light frequency. In the US, the only safe
shutter speeds for fluorescent, mercury vapor, and other frequency
sensitive lights are 1/125, 1/60, 1/30, and 1/15. And the 1/125 is
iffy. In countries with 50 cycle AC, it's a little more difficult
with an S2, as it has only 1/2 stop variations, but I'd guess that
1/90, 1/45, 1/23, and 1/12 would be safe. As you get down into the
longer speeds (the 1/6 and 1/3 you used), AC line variation starts
to be an issue, and some cycles can produce more or different color
than the others, which is what I'm guessing happened here.

But I'm guessing.

--
Thom Hogan
author, Nikon Field Guide
author, Nikon Flash Guide
author, Complete Guide to the Nikon D100
author, Complete Guide to the Nikon D1, D1h, & D1x
http://www.bythom.com
Click to expand...
 
Very interesting theory Thom, but have a look at this sunset I did two months ago, I was near my car, and my cell phone was probably in my pocket, that's it. This was taken with a AF-S 24-85G which I've since returned. I can't remember recently seeing this. This was taken the day I got my S2, September 9th:

100% crop:



Cheers,

--
Peter
 
My CCD is clean, Not even a dot on it when I use Nikkor 28-105 and 17-35 at F2.8-F11.

The Wave like problem is everywhere when I shot on Tripod or night view.
I have 20+ pictures have this wave problem.
ajs2 said:
I would recommend cleaning your lens and CCD. May find thing improve.
Alex
Nefilim said:
Pete Wong said:
Try bringing the image into Photoshop, apply a very slight
"Gaussian Blur" to the image to "soften" it and the "wave-like"
pattern should be gone.

Don't think there is a problem with your camera.

Cheers
Pete Wong
BillyBilly2000 said:
Please help me find out the source of the problem.
Two pictures below,

Sample1.jpg has "wave like" over all of the picture.
Condition: RAF, all default setting, 1/3s, F4.5, ISO400, Tripod used.

Sample2.jpg has no "wave like" in picture.
Condition: Normal 6MP, all default setting, 1/6s, F4.5, ISO400,
Handhold.

I tried to use RAF and JPEG, Change different lence, switch
Microdrive and 512CF card, tested in state park and 3Miles away
apartment and all produced same wave problem.

What will bring this strange wave noise to the S2 Pro? The Tripod
or the Tripod Pad too tight? The Cellularphone?
Is this S2 Pro defected?

Check here:
http://www.pbase.com/billybilly2000/s2_pro_highlight

or





--
Billy Lin
http://www.pbase.com/billybilly2000/
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
Peter
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
Billy Lin
http://www.pbase.com/billybilly2000/
 
Yes, this is exactly same wave I got from all my pictures!!!
So...Is this caused by the Cellularphone?

The Motorola V60, and I am in Roaming condition when I moved from LA to HI these days...
Nefilim said:
Very interesting theory Thom, but have a look at this sunset I did
two months ago, I was near my car, and my cell phone was probably
in my pocket, that's it. This was taken with a AF-S 24-85G which
I've since returned. I can't remember recently seeing this. This
was taken the day I got my S2, September 9th:

100% crop:



Cheers,

--
Peter
Click to expand...
--
Billy Lin
http://www.pbase.com/billybilly2000/
 
Hi, the problem still exist when I shot at even 1/250-1/500 Secs.
Thom Hogan said:
BillyBilly2000 said:
Sample1.jpg has "wave like" over all of the picture.
Condition: RAF, all default setting, 1/3s, F4.5, ISO400, Tripod used.

Sample2.jpg has no "wave like" in picture.
Condition: Normal 6MP, all default setting, 1/6s, F4.5, ISO400,
Handhold.
Click to expand...
Hard to tell, but the problem is most likely lighting induced.
Those aren't continuous on, continuous spectrum lights in your
scene, thus shutter speeds play a part in your results.
Essentially, you get a "beat pattern" because your shutter speed
isn't synced with the light frequency. In the US, the only safe
shutter speeds for fluorescent, mercury vapor, and other frequency
sensitive lights are 1/125, 1/60, 1/30, and 1/15. And the 1/125 is
iffy. In countries with 50 cycle AC, it's a little more difficult
with an S2, as it has only 1/2 stop variations, but I'd guess that
1/90, 1/45, 1/23, and 1/12 would be safe. As you get down into the
longer speeds (the 1/6 and 1/3 you used), AC line variation starts
to be an issue, and some cycles can produce more or different color
than the others, which is what I'm guessing happened here.

But I'm guessing.

--
Thom Hogan
author, Nikon Field Guide
author, Nikon Flash Guide
author, Complete Guide to the Nikon D100
author, Complete Guide to the Nikon D1, D1h, & D1x
http://www.bythom.com
Click to expand...
--
Billy Lin
http://www.pbase.com/billybilly2000/
 
Thanx for bring this to me, I will switch to a new CR123a.
Maybe the battery's power is not balanced or I mixed use...
Yomasa said:
BillyBilly2000 said:
Please help me find out the source of the problem.
Two pictures below,

Sample1.jpg has "wave like" over all of the picture.
Condition: RAF, all default setting, 1/3s, F4.5, ISO400, Tripod used.

Sample2.jpg has no "wave like" in picture.
Condition: Normal 6MP, all default setting, 1/6s, F4.5, ISO400,
Handhold.

I tried to use RAF and JPEG, Change different lence, switch
Microdrive and 512CF card, tested in state park and 3Miles away
apartment and all produced same wave problem.

What will bring this strange wave noise to the S2 Pro? The Tripod
or the Tripod Pad too tight? The Cellularphone?
Is this S2 Pro defected?

Check here:
http://www.pbase.com/billybilly2000/s2_pro_highlight

or





--
Billy Lin
http://www.pbase.com/billybilly2000/
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
Billy Lin
http://www.pbase.com/billybilly2000/
 
Yes...I know what moire is in S2 Pro's SuperCCD 45 degree design.
This is not like moire, this exist on every where even at off focuse place.
Nefilim said:
Pete Wong said:
Try bringing the image into Photoshop, apply a very slight
"Gaussian Blur" to the image to "soften" it and the "wave-like"
pattern should be gone.

Don't think there is a problem with your camera.

Cheers
Pete Wong
BillyBilly2000 said:
Please help me find out the source of the problem.
Two pictures below,

Sample1.jpg has "wave like" over all of the picture.
Condition: RAF, all default setting, 1/3s, F4.5, ISO400, Tripod used.

Sample2.jpg has no "wave like" in picture.
Condition: Normal 6MP, all default setting, 1/6s, F4.5, ISO400,
Handhold.

I tried to use RAF and JPEG, Change different lence, switch
Microdrive and 512CF card, tested in state park and 3Miles away
apartment and all produced same wave problem.

What will bring this strange wave noise to the S2 Pro? The Tripod
or the Tripod Pad too tight? The Cellularphone?
Is this S2 Pro defected?

Check here:
http://www.pbase.com/billybilly2000/s2_pro_highlight

or





--
Billy Lin
http://www.pbase.com/billybilly2000/
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
Peter
Click to expand...
--
Billy Lin
http://www.pbase.com/billybilly2000/
 
Also agree it is not moire, also the most claims that raw helps reduce moire not make it worse.

Someone once posted a picture saying it had "tracking noise", it looks similar, but what is tracking noise I do not know.

Ray
ajs2 said:
I agree not moire.
Click to expand...
 
Two more samples...

Shot at RAF, convert by Qimage to 35MB TIFF(4268x2860), transfer format to JPEG(Q=80%) by ACDSee 5.0

I can see the Wave even at the original RAF(1440x960) image.

There are some friends here have same problem!
Please help us out!



 
My guess: electromagnetic interference combined with in-camera algorhythms. Definitely not moire.

Anthony
BillyBilly2000 said:
Please help me find out the source of the problem.
Two pictures below,

Sample1.jpg has "wave like" over all of the picture.
Condition: RAF, all default setting, 1/3s, F4.5, ISO400, Tripod used.

Sample2.jpg has no "wave like" in picture.
Condition: Normal 6MP, all default setting, 1/6s, F4.5, ISO400,
Handhold.

I tried to use RAF and JPEG, Change different lence, switch
Microdrive and 512CF card, tested in state park and 3Miles away
apartment and all produced same wave problem.

What will bring this strange wave noise to the S2 Pro? The Tripod
or the Tripod Pad too tight? The Cellularphone?
Is this S2 Pro defected?

Check here:
http://www.pbase.com/billybilly2000/s2_pro_highlight

or





--
Billy Lin
http://www.pbase.com/billybilly2000/
Click to expand...
 
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