Raves..has anyone shot at one of these?

Claire Itin

Active member
Messages
70
Reaction score
0
Location
US
I want to go to a few raves to photograph what it's all about. I realize that there may be some risks involved -safety of my equipment for one. It's dark, which makes it a perfect opportunity for someone to attack me, but it's also a lighting problem.

So I'd appreciate tactical/technical advice from photographers who have shot raves.

Thanks!
 
I haven't been to one since I got a D30, but here are some from my previous camera.

http://www.photo.net/photodb/folder?folder_id=173949

If I have any advice at all, it is to
  1. 1 Get as bright as lens as possible 50mm f/1.4 would be great... or the 35 f/2 or 28 f/1.8
  2. 2 Don't let ANYTHING out of your site or out of your hand for that matter. Frequently they can be quite crowded, and I would stay away from bringing a backpack full of gear. Take what you can keep on your camera and in pockets.
  1. 3 Forget the flash. Between the cig smoke and fog machines, forget about it. Besides, natural lighting is funner to shoot with anyway. If you have to.... try putting a diffuser in front of the flash... or try covering the top part of the flash... pretty ghetto, but it cuts down on the amount of "fog" that is lit up.
  1. 4 Don't always try to "freeze" the motion... the motion and beats is what makes the rave.
Think thats about it... good luck!

Aaron
 
...unless you are manually focusing. I shot this weekend and the 60 hunted and hunted and hunted...the focus light is also a little diconcerting to revelers...

But you do what you've got to do.

I was going to post a linked picture...but I'm not sure how cool that would be. You understand.

Did I make myself clear? It will be difficult...divise your strategies now...practice shooting in virtual darkness....you know what I mean.

Best Wishes,

Traveller
 
I want to go to a few raves to photograph what it's all about. I
realize that there may be some risks involved -safety of my
equipment for one. It's dark, which makes it a perfect opportunity
for someone to attack me, but it's also a lighting problem.
It depends what you define by a 'rave' and what part of the world you're in.

I am a regular at an old club in London called the Whirl-Y-Gig, which has been going for sometime (> 21 years) and is somewhat more relaxed than what you may be referring to.
So I'd appreciate tactical/technical advice from photographers who
have shot raves.
Manual mode, short zoom, flash - try the strobe mode on the 550EX too. If you set the flash to manual and down by -2EV, shutter at about 1/30 - 1/50 and aperture to as large as you can (f/8 - f/22). Oh, manually focus based on DOF.

Setting a small aperture and using a flash gives you the ability to focus to somewhere around the expected distance of the people and just shoot.

See (in a progression of time frame - so the shots get better as I do I hope - as does the editing of the dross):

http://www.gallery.wonderland.org/celebrations/parties/whirlygig-2001-06-02/
http://www.gallery.wonderland.org/celebrations/parties/whirlygig-2001-10-27/
http://www.gallery.wonderland.org/celebrations/parties/whirlygig-2001-12-31/
http://www.gallery.wonderland.org/celebrations/parties/whirlygig_2002-04-06/
http://www.gallery.wonderland.org/celebrations/parties/whirlygig_2002-08-03/

BTW For anyone in London, it's on this Saturday http://www.whirl-y-gig.org.uk - the crowd is friendly, cameras OK - no alchohol sold on the premises so bring your own (I don't) - and the lack of a bar license is what lets the kids in with parents... if you come, look for the fat bloke in a vest on the stage (without camera this time).

rgds,
--
Peter Galbavy
http://www.wonderland.org/
Help decode CRW files: http://www.wonderland.org/crw/
 
I want to go to a few raves to photograph what it's all about. I
realize that there may be some risks involved -safety of my
equipment for one. It's dark, which makes it a perfect opportunity
for someone to attack me, but it's also a lighting problem.
I have been taking pictures in night clubs for a while now (since April). I've posted comments on some of the technical aspects of this in a couple threads here on dpreview in the past. See, for example:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=3427180

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=3653573 (and resulting sub-threads)

I'm a big fan of slow shutters with 2nd curtain flash. Makes for cool shots like this:



A fast lens helps, but the people who say a flash is useless and you have to use high ISOs (I shoot everything at 100) are incorrect; it's simply a matter of what technique you use. And there is no right or wrong technique. I use several different approaches myself, depending on the type of shot I'm trying to get. I also never carry a tripod or monopod, despite doing many long exposures. Get good at your long exposure technique (stance, grip, breathing) and you can get by quite well without one. For the really long exposures, figure out places to brace yourself and/or the camera. As with anything, the best advice I can give is to experiment, experiment, experiment and practice, practice, practice. My stuff has improved quite a bit since I started back in April.

As to the tactical of it, I dunno what to say. I know the people that work the clubs I go to, and either 1) carry my camera bag (a lowepro mini-trekker backpack) on me all the time, or I leave it in the DJ booth where there are plenty of people watching over it, plus the DJ booth has limited access to begin with. I have shot a couple events that were more of a rave party (like the Another Level stuff on my site), and I simply carried the bag at all times. I often carry the bag anyway so as to have my different lenses available to me depending on what I need at any given time.

I have also recently started making use of my second 550EX in the clubs (I've had it for a while, just never tried taking it with me). For example, in Vision I will get some shots of the DJ sniping them from a far balcony using the 70-200 lens (sometimes with a 1.4x II TC on it). I put the second 550EX under one of the DJ's monitor speakers so it doesn't fire right in his face and then trigger it as a remote slave to get a local flash on the DJ. The problem with this is you get a very high contrast ratio; I'd really need a third 550EX under the other monitor on the opposite monitor to balance it out. Here's an example of what I've gotten doign the remote slave, though:



Cheers,
Chris
 
...unless you are manually focusing. I shot this weekend and the 60
hunted and hunted and hunted...the focus light is also a little
diconcerting to revelers...

But you do what you've got to do.
Shooting in clubs and raves, you really need an external flash like the 420EX or the 550EX (I use the 550EX, personally); the built-in flash is anemic in such situations. The AF assist light will make a dramatic difference in AF ability. I use a D30 and have great success with AF. It's only when I've got the 70-200 on the camera and shoot things outside the range of the AF assist light that I have trouble and resort to manually focusing. Problem is, these places are so dark that you can't really see through the viewfinder to know if you're in focus or not. So get to know your environment; find some places you will routinely take shots from and figure out the focus distance so you can manually focus by the focus meter ring on the lens.

The AF assist light being near-IR is also much less distracting to people than the glaring white focus light on the camera body itself.

Chris
 
Chris,

you've made me rethink using flash. Unfortunately I don't own one (yet) but looking at your site I'm definitely ready to buy one (the 550ex, i reckon).

By the way, what does:

I'm a big fan of slow shutters with 2nd curtain flash.

mean, exactly?

I'm completely new and oblivious to all things to with flash but I'd like to take pictures like the one that accompanied that sentence.
 
By the way, what does:

I'm a big fan of slow shutters with 2nd curtain flash.

mean, exactly?

I'm completely new and oblivious to all things to with flash but
I'd like to take pictures like the one that accompanied that
sentence.
That picture was a half-second exposure with the flash configured for 2nd curtain sync. Flashes fire for a very brief duration. On a long exposure, the flash does not light for the entire exposure. Normally, the flash fires at the beginning of the exposure, once the shutter is fully open. With 2nd curtain, the flash fires at the end of the exposure, just before the shutter closes again.

In that picture, and others like it, the foreground subject is largely in the dark. You've got strong club lights in the background, however. The long exposure allows one to capture the dramatic impact of the background club lights and then the flash comes along at the end and freezes in the foreground.

I shoot a lot of stuff this way. It allows one to get the ambient glow of the club in the frame yet have a well-defined foreground subject. If you look at the shots of the DJs taken from within the booth at Vision, probably 90% of those are taken using this same technique. The long exposure means you do get motion blur in the background, although with the club environment that often isn't a problem as the background is largely dark and won't register anyway (excluding the club lights, which are swirling around anyway and you WANT motion in those).

Here's one I like of DJ Tiësto that illustrates this point:



That was .5 seconds with the 14mm lens held inches above the CDJ-1000, hence the distorted perspective. (I'm also a big fan of the perspective games you can play with really wide angle lenses.) The ambient club lights are no-where near as dramatic as they are in the one of the girl dancing, but still lends a nice glow to the image, retaining the atmosphere of the club.

Chris
 
Manual mode, short zoom, flash - try the strobe mode on the 550EX
too. If you set the flash to manual and down by -2EV, shutter at
about 1/30 - 1/50 and aperture to as large as you can (f/8 - f/22).
Oh, manually focus based on DOF.

Setting a small aperture and using a flash gives you the ability to
focus to somewhere around the expected distance of the people and
just shoot.
I going to buy the 550ex tomorrow and shoot my first rave later in the evening.

Many of the shots on your site (as well as Christopher's) are of the posed variety, where the subjects are smiling for the camera. They have presumably stopped whatever activity they had been doing because you've asked them to be photographed. I'm wondering if this is a limitation of working with the flash, that candid reportage, photojournalistic type shots are harder to get, or get away with.
 
I going to buy the 550ex tomorrow and shoot my first rave later in
the evening.
Good start :) BTW I forgot to mention the 2nd curtain sync, but luckily Christopher did. Think of it as the flash being used to stop the motion where the subject > ends up
Many of the shots on your site (as well as Christopher's) are of
the posed variety, where the subjects are smiling for the camera.
They have presumably stopped whatever activity they had been doing
because you've asked them to be photographed. I'm wondering if this
is a limitation of working with the flash, that candid reportage,
photojournalistic type shots are harder to get, or get away with.
It depends on what you want to shoot. What is the story ? I can go to a club and shoot a dark, depressing story with shots of shady drug deals and people off their faces in corners and dirty toilets. On the other hand, I can shoot my friends (ah, what a lovely turn of phrase) having a good time.

Many people - especially the girls - spend a lot of time (and occasionally money) on getting dressed and made up. If someone wants to take a picture, they are more than happy usually. If you tell them to look at your website for themselves, most folks want a nice group shot so they can 'pass it around' other who may not have been there.

I do it for the fun - Christopher appears to do it for a living :) So our subjects and the set-up are both different, but the results are usually 'positive'.

PS Try the Strobe effects on the 550EX - now that's fun if you can get it right. I suggest 1 second, f/8, 1/16th power, 8Hz, 8 shots :) Depending on the ambient light and the ISO you can get some cool stop-motion looking montages.

--
Peter Galbavy
http://www.wonderland.org/
Help decode CRW files: http://www.wonderland.org/crw/
 
Many of the shots on your site (as well as Christopher's) are of
the posed variety, where the subjects are smiling for the camera.
They have presumably stopped whatever activity they had been doing
because you've asked them to be photographed. I'm wondering if this
is a limitation of working with the flash, that candid reportage,
photojournalistic type shots are harder to get, or get away with.
Many people - especially the girls - spend a lot of time (and
occasionally money) on getting dressed and made up. If someone
wants to take a picture, they are more than happy usually. If you
tell them to look at your website for themselves, most folks want a
nice group shot so they can 'pass it around' other who may not have
been there.
Different clubs go different ways. Glam clubs, everyone wants a nice posed shot showing how well they've primped themselves up. Clubs that are more about the music you can get a lot of good big club shots, plus DJ shots. Stuff I've posted, Vision and Crobar would be more about the music, for example. It's inevitable that you'll have a set of posed shots, though, as you take pictures of your friends, or the girl you think is really hot, etc. For the Tiësto show at Vision, it was also Halloween so people were dressed up so I spent some time wandering getting pictures of people in costumes, and then of course you get all the people around them seeing you taking pictures and they want theirs taken as well.

That's another thing -- when people see you with a big camera, they assume you're shooting for something important (a magazine, the club, etc) and so they're asking you to take their picture instead of you asking them. If I'm not busy focusing on something else at the time, I usually do (especially when it's a cute girl doing the asking).

Finally, another thing that might seem a bit miss-leading is the number of 'posed' people shots to the big club shots, DJ shots, etc. Posed shots are typically taken ONCE -- quickly review on the LCD, and move on -- every 10th one you end up redoing it because someone blinked, or whatever. There's not much technically to worry about for posed shots, and things are under your own control. Taking pictures of the club lights, the antics of the DJ, people dancing around, etc., you have relatively little control of things. So you take lots and lots of redundant shots for any given camera angle/whatever, and pick the best one out of the sequence in post. For the BT show at Vision, for example, I had 149 shots of club lighting and the pulled back crowd perspective, but only posted 27. So if you just go by the numbers of what's posted, it looks like I spent a lot more time taking posed shots of people, when in fact I spent very little time doing so. (Total numbers for the BT show: I took 482 pictures that night, of which 146 were posted.)
I do it for the fun - Christopher appears to do it for a living :)
So our subjects and the set-up are both different, but the results
are usually 'positive'.
No, this is a hobby of mine. I've always enjoyed night clubs, photography, and beautiful women. So now I get to put all three together. And it has it's perks; get to meet a lot of people (including the big DJs that roll through town), get in for free, free drinks often, etc.

Cheers,
Chris
 
By the way, what does:

I'm a big fan of slow shutters with 2nd curtain flash.

mean, exactly?

I'm completely new and oblivious to all things to with flash but
I'd like to take pictures like the one that accompanied that
sentence.
That picture was a half-second exposure with the flash configured
for 2nd curtain sync. Flashes fire for a very brief duration. On
a long exposure, the flash does not light for the entire exposure.
Normally, the flash fires at the beginning of the exposure, once
the shutter is fully open. With 2nd curtain, the flash fires at
the end of the exposure, just before the shutter closes again.

In that picture, and others like it, the foreground subject is
largely in the dark. You've got strong club lights in the
background, however. The long exposure allows one to capture the
dramatic impact of the background club lights and then the flash
comes along at the end and freezes in the foreground.

I shoot a lot of stuff this way. It allows one to get the ambient
glow of the club in the frame yet have a well-defined foreground
subject. If you look at the shots of the DJs taken from within the
booth at Vision, probably 90% of those are taken using this same
technique. The long exposure means you do get motion blur in the
background, although with the club environment that often isn't a
problem as the background is largely dark and won't register anyway
(excluding the club lights, which are swirling around anyway and
you WANT motion in those).

Here's one I like of DJ Tiësto that illustrates this point:



That was .5 seconds with the 14mm lens held inches above the
CDJ-1000, hence the distorted perspective. (I'm also a big fan of
the perspective games you can play with really wide angle lenses.)
The ambient club lights are no-where near as dramatic as they are
in the one of the girl dancing, but still lends a nice glow to the
image, retaining the atmosphere of the club.

Chris
--
Claire Itin
 
Chris,

Have you ever used the Offshoe-Cord 2? I tested out my 550ex last night and it was very harsh unless bounced off the ceiling. While it's probably something the Stofen fixes, the light could be even softer if the 550ex were raised off-shoe by 60cm. What do you think?

Also I have unit powered down to 1/128 for the maximum 40 continuous shots. What do you have it at?

Also, Quantum or digitalcamerabattery are too costly at the moment, so I will have to stick with niMH. Have you tried Quick Flash? The waits are shorter and for up-close shots the flash may be powerful enough.

Also, have you seen these pictures?

http://photorave.com/portfolio/photos.html

Thanks, buddy!
 
Have you ever used the Offshoe-Cord 2? I tested out my 550ex last
night and it was very harsh unless bounced off the ceiling. While
it's probably something the Stofen fixes, the light could be even
softer if the 550ex were raised off-shoe by 60cm. What do you think?
I have a couple Offshoe Cord 2s, but I do not use them in the clubs. I use a Stofen Omni-bounce and aim the flash at about 45 degrees to the subject. I get pretty decent results in this configuration; people aren't blown away as they are when I don't angle and/or don't have the Stofen on.

There are two problems with the Offshoe Cord approach:

1) The camera really requires two hands to hold and shoot (at least in my configuration). So if you've got a free-floating flash on a cord you can't really hold it in one hand and shoot with the other. Perhaps if I got a hand strap I could properly support the camera and do this, but I've never felt compelled to try. The other option is to get something like a Stroboframe and mount the flash on that. However, I've yet to find one of those frames I find comfortable to hold for any extended period of time.

2) You loose the benefit of the AF Assist light. The emitter is very focused and assumes the flash is mounted directly in the camera's hot-shoe. When you move it away from that, even a little bit, the effectiveness is dramatically reduced. So you'll have a lot harder time focusing in the darkness of clubs. You can try manual focus instead, but I find clubs too dark to accurately manual focus through the viewfinder on my D30.
Also I have unit powered down to 1/128 for the maximum 40
continuous shots. What do you have it at?
I use E-TTL and have it stopped down 1/2 (plus lose another full stop from the Stofen, so E-TTL is actually making the flash work harder to compensate). With the Quantum Turbo Battery, I can fire burst runs and the flash recycle time is not an issue.
Also, Quantum or digitalcamerabattery are too costly at the moment,
so I will have to stick with niMH. Have you tried Quick Flash? The
waits are shorter and for up-close shots the flash may be powerful
enough.
Quick Flash meaning where the flash allows you to fire before it's fully recycled (yellow pilot instead of green)? If so, no, since I don't have issues with recycle times given the external battery pack. I've never used either of my 550s without an external high-voltage battery. Ever.
He's got some great stuff there. Thank's for the link; I've bookmarked it.

Cheers,
Chris
 
Auto-focussing in those conditions will be nigh-on impossible. Even if you attach a flash be prepared to focus manually. I think you'd be better assigning focus to the * button on the D60. Focus on auto if you can, be prepared to swing around to shoot something with a similar range without adjusting focus.

Good luck!
 
Auto-focussing in those conditions will be nigh-on impossible.
Even if you attach a flash be prepared to focus manually. I think
you'd be better assigning focus to the * button on the D60. Focus
on auto if you can, be prepared to swing around to shoot something
with a similar range without adjusting focus.
I shoot 95% of my stuff auto-focus with no issues thanks to the AF assist light on the 550EX. The stuff that doesn't AF is that which exceeds the range of the AF assist light when I've got the 70-200 lens on the camera.
 
I use E-TTL and have it stopped down 1/2 (plus lose another full
stop from the Stofen, so E-TTL is actually making the flash work
harder to compensate). With the Quantum Turbo Battery, I can fire
burst runs and the flash recycle time is not an issue.
Chris

I have started covering events and plan to start covering some local clubs. At the moment I am having enough difficulty just shooting standard posed party shots with a D60 and 550EX - In P mode, I need to dial in +2 on the 550EX to get anything other than really underexposed shots. I also need +1 on the D60 to bring overall exposure up to correct settings. That along with the difficulty with the ETTL sensitivity of the 550EX especially at black tie events where the focus point is either black or white and a tiny refocus will mess up the exposure totally.

Do you just get used to these problems over time, or do you get experienced enough to just know what manual settings will suit?

Can you provide some more details of your settings - are you using the camera in Manual to select .5 second timings or is that what an auto setting gives you in that type of lighting.

Excellent shots by the way - you get a lot of atmosphere in the shots.

I look forward to trying similar shots once I have mastered basic flash photos with this digital gear! :)

Cheers

--
Jon Day
Canon D60
http://www.jerseyevents.com
 
I have started covering events and plan to start covering some
local clubs. At the moment I am having enough difficulty just
shooting standard posed party shots with a D60 and 550EX - In P
mode, I need to dial in +2 on the 550EX to get anything other than
really underexposed shots. I also need +1 on the D60 to bring
overall exposure up to correct settings. That along with the
difficulty with the ETTL sensitivity of the 550EX especially at
black tie events where the focus point is either black or white and
a tiny refocus will mess up the exposure totally.

Do you just get used to these problems over time, or do you get
experienced enough to just know what manual settings will suit?
I don't use manual. I use E-TTL, and make heavy use of FEL. When I change the batteries out on the 550EX (you still need AAs in it for it's internal brains; the external battery is only to recycle the flash capacitor), it often looses the -1/2 stop flash compensation I've dialed in and it's immediately noticable in photos when I review on the LCD.

I also do level correction in post; often the auto-levels in BreezeBrowser is sufficient. Sometimes I do manual level tweaking in Photoshop.
Can you provide some more details of your settings - are you using
the camera in Manual to select .5 second timings or is that what an
auto setting gives you in that type of lighting.
I use P and Tv modes. P for when I want to freeze people, as I know the camera will pretty much always choose 1/60th at f/2.8, but if it gets hit by a powerful strobe at the instant I take the picture, it can compensate. But I effectively consider this the same as manually setting 1/60th at f/2.8. For the timed exposures I use Tv mode with the time dialed in and let the camera pick the aperature, which is almost always f/2.8 unless you've got a bright stobe or stong laser going in the frame.

All the stuff on my website should have intact EXIF data, so you can always look at what was done for a shot are curious about.

Cheers,
Chris
 
Hi Chris

Nice work, my friend! you've got some great pictures, you seem to be going to the right places (very well lit). Do you do this for a living or just for pleasure? I've began to cover such events, and would like to live from it, gradually. But i find it very hard to find party organizers interested in my stuff, oh, i mean, to PAY for my stuff!! they all say my pictures are beautiful, fantastic, (put any positive adjective here). But when it comes to pay me for such a good work, they all prefer to rely on "consumer level photographers", the teens going out and "also" taking pics for websites about clubbing... the difference is like night and day between their pics and mine, but in the end the guys don't want to buy my files!!

I don't use 2nd curtain sync, and actually i wonder why you do. It's obviously useful for some situations, like the DJ with a white led in his mouth, on your website. The trail is at the right place. But i just don't want to rely on the camera timing to get the right shot, and even with 1st curtain i sometimes have a hard time catching the right moment...

People dancing all have a sort of "come and go" movement, so why would a trail be problematic? i mean, can you tell from a picture if the person was moving one way or another, according to the trail...

How can you frame your picture properly when the view is blacked out?? Have you gotten the sacred skill that allows you to shoot just holding the camera in a direction and knowing where it's poiting to? Sometimes i can do it, but it results very often in a badly framed picture. I've got a 15mm fisheye so i can crop, in some cases, but the worse is already done in most situations...

You have a D30, but which lens allows you to AF quickly in the dark with the 550? I recently bought a 420, still have to master it, but although the AF assist is awesome in most everyday situations, in the clubs it's so dark that the beam nearly isn't visible... In the closeup shot of people dancing, which i prefer, i can't use AF anyway because they -move-. So i set my lens to a certain position and try to keep the camera at a known distance of any subject, and just cross the fingers to get the people in the shallow DoF at 2.8!

I WANT TO EARN MONEY FROM THIS. I WANT TO EARN MONEY FROM THIS. I WANT TO EARN MONEY FROM THIS. I WANT TO EARN MONEY FROM THIS.
(i repeat this every morning to motivate myself)
--
http://www.at-sight.com
Sports & general event photography
 

Keyboard shortcuts

Back
Top