E-20N: Getting good results?

I still don't know how to post the pic to come visible here but if you click it..
http://www.pbase.com/image/6557653/medium
Yes sometimes I get the photo flat when I screw the things up
but still you can't find D60 for 1300 bucks
Hi everyone

I have an E-20N loaned to me for evaluation purporses. I an using
it in the highest quality jpeg mode. The results don't seem to be
what they should be for a $1300 5.0 MP digital SLR with advanced
capabilities. The colors, in particular, seem flat. The images
aren't as good as I've seen from Canon and Sony cameras that are
half the price.

Can anyone give me some advice on getting the most out of the
E-20N? I know I am likely dealing with user error... not a bad
machine!
--
E-10 for now.........Gladly!!!
Take a Prayer!
http://www.pbase.com/image/5706283
 
Excellent response Gage. I was going to add something to this thread but after seeing your reply I won't as it says everything that needs to be said, and should answer most of Don's questions.

I'd also think if Don researched the color gamut issue a little more thoroughly he'd come to his own proper conclusions.
Yes the color from the E-xx are flat. It is that way to preserve
the dynamic range and full color gamit. The consumer cams you
mention are geared towards consumers so they make alot of
adjustments in camera. These are adjustments that cant be undone
later. I suggest setting the in camera sharpening and contrast
settings to "soft" and "low". This will give you really "flat"
images. BUT THE INFO IS IN THEM. A little levels and you are there.
Curves if you know how to use curves. I dont like PS "Auto Levels"
so a great automatic batch you could run would be the "iCorrect"
Plugin for
PS. It is right on 80+% of the time.

If you want bang right out of the camera, maybe change the
sharpening and contrast - I've never done it as I want the most
info. If that isnt good, maybe you need a consumer camera.

GageFX

--
E-10, LiPo, FL-40, Stroboframe 120 QF, Lumiquest Softbox,
Speedotron Force 10s, AlienBees, HP P1100, Epson 777, Epson 1280
--
Oly E20, Kodak DC4800's, Canon GL1, ZR25, Minolta HTsi+
 
Well, Don, if you review cameras on a regular basis I would think that by now you would already know the difference between a consumer model like a G2 with it's somewhat actinic colours (just take a look at the sample images on this site) and a pro model like an E-20, designed to capture maximum range and do minimum damage in-camera to allow maximum flexibility in post-processing. I don't understand why you find it strange?

Why don't you post some images with some comparisons from your D60 and your G2 so we can all see what you have a problem with and maybe shed some light on matters?

Jim.
Why on earth?

I'm a journalist and evaluate products on a regular basis. I
ordered an E-20 because it seems to fit neatly between the
--- SNIP! ---
 
Yes the color from the E-xx are flat. It is that way to preserve
the dynamic range and full color gamit. The consumer cams you
mention are geared towards consumers so they make alot of
adjustments in camera. These are adjustments that cant be undone
later. I suggest setting the in camera sharpening and contrast
settings to "soft" and "low". This will give you really "flat"
images. BUT THE INFO IS IN THEM. A little levels and you are there.
Curves if you know how to use curves. I dont like PS "Auto Levels"
so a great automatic batch you could run would be the "iCorrect"
Plugin for
PS. It is right on 80+% of the time.

If you want bang right out of the camera, maybe change the
sharpening and contrast - I've never done it as I want the most
info. If that isnt good, maybe you need a consumer camera.

GageFX

--
E-10, LiPo, FL-40, Stroboframe 120 QF, Lumiquest Softbox,
Speedotron Force 10s, AlienBees, HP P1100, Epson 777, Epson 1280
--
Oly E20, Kodak DC4800's, Canon GL1, ZR25, Minolta HTsi+
Yes, but any (post)processing degrades the picture more or less. Is not the color rendition out of the camera dependent in the first place on the characteristicts of the CCD sensor (filters etc), besides on firmware?
Jara K.
 
You might be surprised if you'd know how much post processing is done in cameras already. If there is a camera (like E-xx is) which doesn't do so excessive post processing then why to complain?

If somebody wants rich colors he/she of course can set contrast to high in the camera, but this way you'll end up with a picture which can't stand much post processing. The more information the picture has (E-xx with low contrast, RAW mode will have LOTS of color information compared to most digitals) the more post processing can be applied without noticeable decline in the picture quality.
With E-xx you have all the choices left for color rendition.
Yes, but any (post)processing degrades the picture more or less. Is
not the color rendition out of the camera dependent in the first
place on the characteristicts of the CCD sensor (filters etc),
besides on firmware?
Jara K.
--
Juha Koskela
 
Hi everyone

I have an E-20N loaned to me for evaluation purporses. I an using
it in the highest quality jpeg mode. The results don't seem to be
what they should be for a $1300 5.0 MP digital SLR with advanced
capabilities. The colors, in particular, seem flat. The images
aren't as good as I've seen from Canon and Sony cameras that are
half the price.

Can anyone give me some advice on getting the most out of the
E-20N? I know I am likely dealing with user error... not a bad
machine!
--
E-10 for now.........Gladly!!!
Take a Prayer!
http://www.pbase.com/image/5706283
--
Jeff S
WB9ZPO
C-21OO, E-1O C5O5O on order.

 
Your images are awesome however I agree with the others that feel
like the image is flat and requires post processing. You are
obvious very good with PS or whatever you use but unless a person
wants to invest another $700.00 for software and the countless
hours it takes to learn it then a camera with 4-5 MP that has good
pictures from the get go would be a better choice. IMO
Excuse me for getting into this thread so late, but I just don't get the problem here.

PS Elements is a very capable program for post processing, and doesn't cost and arm and a shutter finger. In fact, it came with my camera, and didn't LE come with an E-10? I use PS6 myself, but Elements and LE is capable of producing better images with your E-10 than a Sony any day.

I don't understand why people complain about learning some post processing fundamentals. It's still easier and faster than any tradtional wet work. This is an SLR, for goodness sakes...don't we want to control the editing OURSELVES? Otherwise, I'd still be using my Brownie.
--
Cheers,
markE
  • Oly E-20, FL-40, WCON, TCON, Nikon CP 990, & LOTS of batteries!
-Gallery: http://www.pbase.com/marke

 
Hi, Don.

I have not read each and every response, but did read several. Overall, I agree with what you have seen and what some of the responses have mentioned, but I'll add my 2 cents' worth.

I think the Oly images straight from the camera are usually quite color accurate and not overly exaggerated. Some people like this, others prefer more punch. I prefer to adding the "punch" when needed after the fact in Photoshop post processing. It's much easier to add a little zip at that stage through a curve or levels adjustment than to try and make images look more natural bacause the camera overprocessed the image from the beginning.

Overall, I still do not know of a better value in digital cameras when one is looking for something in between the higher end of the SLR range and the consumer models. The E-20 is capable of great images, but like any good tool, learning to get the most out of it takes some practice and experimentation. Just the kind of thing that most photo enthusiasts will have fun doing.

Take care,

TomJ
Hi everyone

I have an E-20N loaned to me for evaluation purporses. I an using
it in the highest quality jpeg mode. The results don't seem to be
what they should be for a $1300 5.0 MP digital SLR with advanced
capabilities. The colors, in particular, seem flat. The images
aren't as good as I've seen from Canon and Sony cameras that are
half the price.

Can anyone give me some advice on getting the most out of the
E-20N? I know I am likely dealing with user error... not a bad
machine!
 
I have read all the responses and still believe it is my lack of experience that has turned me off on this camera. I would ask a favor. Could someone E-Mail me a picture of a landscape that is direct from the camera in totally flat mode so I can compare it to what I am getting. I will then be able to see that I may or may not have a bad camera.

I would appreciate it.

Thank you
Jeff S
WB9ZPO
C-21OO, E-1O C5O5O on order.

 
Jeff S wrote:
nt
I have read all the responses and still believe it is my lack of
experience that has turned me off on this camera. I would ask a
favor. Could someone E-Mail me a picture of a landscape that is
direct from the camera in totally flat mode so I can compare it to
what I am getting. I will then be able to see that I may or may
not have a bad camera.

I would appreciate it.

Thank you
Jeff S
WB9ZPO
C-21OO, E-1O C5O5O on order.
--

E-10, LiPo, FL-40, Stroboframe 120 QF, Lumiquest Softbox, Speedotron Force 10s, AlienBees, HP P1100, Epson 777, Epson 1280
 
Jeff,

I've sent you two versions of the same landscape photo. First one is straight from the camera, with contrast and sharpening set to low/soft. The second one is with only a quick levels adjustment.

Let me know what you think.

Mark
I have read all the responses and still believe it is my lack of
experience that has turned me off on this camera. I would ask a
favor. Could someone E-Mail me a picture of a landscape that is
direct from the camera in totally flat mode so I can compare it to
what I am getting. I will then be able to see that I may or may
not have a bad camera.

I would appreciate it.

Thank you
Jeff S
WB9ZPO
C-21OO, E-1O C5O5O on order.

--
Cheers,
markE
  • Oly E-20, LiPo, FL-40, WCON, TCON, Nikon CP 990, & LOTS of batteries!
-Gallery: http://www.pbase.com/marke

 
Don,

Researching your past posting history you indicate that as recent as 3 months ago you didn't even know what USM was , and also you were seeking advice as to what camera bag to purchase.I won't dispute your evaluating products on a regular basis as you stated but we are talking about cameras here. Surely if you are already using a D60 you must realize that some post processing will have to be done with the E 20 too.

My advice is to read the advice you get here and apply it. You really write a column? My advice is ,You had better research what you write about photography because if a dpreview reader sees it and.... well you get my gist?
Good luck/have fun learning all about digital cameras.
John
I'm a journalist and evaluate products on a regular basis. I
ordered an E-20 because it seems to fit neatly between the
G2-G3-701-717 gamut and the D100-D60 digital SLRs. I frequently
receive emails from non-enthusiasts like us who read my column who
are looking for a digital suitable for "serious" photography. The
G2-717s are still point and shoots in my estimation, and if i
recommend they spend $4,000 on a D60 outfit, they gag.

I think the E-20 is well worth the 35% premium over a 717 simply by
the virtue of it being an SLR, and with the nice lens, SLR design,
5 MP, and ability to use an external flash, it is capable of
"serious" work. I would like to add it to my list of recommended
products, so I called Olympus PR (they contacted me offering
evaluation samplesa few weeks ago) and asked for an E-20N to test
out.

BTW, I am not comparing "gallery" images. I am comparing images I
made myself. I don't want to recommend it unless it can at least
equal the G2 in image quality as I perceive it. I strongly suspect
it can, though I have not achieved it yet. (I've only had it four
days.) That is why I am here... to ask the experts! I trust my
friends on dpreview!

who lament that even the better
would you want to evaluate an E-20 when you own a D60?
Exactly.
In any event, I have owned a 'half price Sony' and agree with you
that the images are more 'vibrant' and 'saturated' out of the
camera (DSC-F505V) - that is the very point - they are TOO
processed for serious work, especialy with the Sony in the reds,
they are also very prone to color casts. I believe that the
F707/717 are improved in this respect. I can't speak for the
Canon's.
There's a very easy way to compare - go to PhotoSig.com click on
Photos and Browse by Camera. That can be very telling. You'll find
that the E10 photos cover a broader spectrum of types of shots
(landscape, portraits, etc.) where you'll find a zillion landscapes
with the G2 - but very few people shots and practically zilch
studio shots. I haven't ever looked at the Sony stuff because I
won't consider a digicam and I'm not into a bunch of proprietary
stuff (stick and battery). I rambled through the E10 section for a
few days and decided that the camera will give me more of what I
want, better tonality, and a picture right of the camera I can show
to the client.
I am afraid you are making the mistake of comparing consumer grade
cameras with professional equipment - with the former the
assumption is made that the user will want to do little or no
post-processing, with the latter dynamic range and colour accuracy
is everything and 'darkroom' work is part of the process, albeit
digitally.
Being able to actually see through the lens to me is a big, big,
big, BIG deal. I was taking hundreds of shots with an EVF to make
sure I got 5 good ones because of OOF, etc. You can clog up a 40
gig hard drive very quickly with a pile of 5 megapixel pictures and
get bogged down in post. The client short circuits too when you
send the 300 proofs on a web site to look at. I found with 35mm, I
was shooting 2 shots and moving on to the next pose because I was
more confident I was getting what I wanted. If I find I
consistently want to bump saturation, I can batch it.
The E-10/E20's are among the most colour accurate cameras on the
market (E-10 is actually slightly better IMHO), perhaps you either
have a faulty unit or your monitor and/or print combination has a
problem.
I downloaded Phil's E10 samples before I bought my E10 (only got it
today) to print and the color saturation on them coming off my
S9000 was much better than my Dimage. I think you might want to
produce a print rather than judge just what you see on the screen.

Clay
 

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