Samsung EX1 or Pana LX5?

I'm new here, so please forgive me if I'm breaking some rule or another (I read the FAQ). Basically, I need to buy a camera sometime in November. I am involved in a film project and will need to scout locations and do some basic film tests. For that I need a camera with the following characteristics, and I've settled on either LX5 or the EX1 with consideration given to the Canon S95.

1)I will be on location without immediate access to charging - so long battery life is a plus (I would buy extra batteries as well) - the LX5 seems good here, the S95 poor, the EX1?

2)I'll be shooting a lot of indoor and small spaces. Therefore wide and fast is a big plus. Here the LX5 and EX1 shine compared to the S95. Between the LX5 and EX1, the EX1 is a bit faster on the wide end at f 1.8 vs 2.0.

3)Low light performance is a must - all three pretty equal, though looking at the specs you'd think the LX5 and EX1 would be better than the S95.

4)The video function is very important. I'd have said - just looking at the specs - that the LX5 shines here, but then I'm reading a lot of reports on this board about purple banding and other flaws on the LX5 video.

5)Size. Obviously, I don't want to carry a big brick around. Smaller is better. The S95 wins big here, the LX5 and EX1 are a tie.

6)Image Quality - looks like for jpegs, the S95 wins here, though I have no idea about the EX1. The LX5 seems to have color rendition problems and noise in low-light situations compared to the S95.

However, all these comparisons between the LX5 and EX1 (and S95) are somewhat anecdotal, and I hate to make a decision based on rumors and random opinions. I trust dpreviews in-depth reviews above all others.

The problem is that I have to have this camera by the end of November. I don't know if there is any way of knowing if or when they'll do this for the LX5 (vs EX1, S95), so I can't really count on that.

How can I reach a decision here? Maybe wiser and more experienced users here can help me out - what's the best way forward here? (I rejected larger cameras like the G11 or EP1 or whatever, because of size among other reasons).

hi, cronfini ...

this is my first post as well, and i too have been seriously comparing both specs, images, and feedback on the various 1/1.7" sensor dcams ... i too was confused by the feedback which really ran the gamut, so what i finely decided to do was simply go back and only look at the images posted for my target list of cams (proof is in the pudding strategy) ... my conclusion is that the lx5 is the cam for me ...

good luck with your search -- i would like to see price come down another $60, then i am in: will need a card and a case to carry it in -- wish they had a cellphone type case like the nikon p7000 has -- i will carry my lx5 every place my cellphone goes, which is to say everywhere but the shower ...

regards and good luck!!

Thank you, patrader, that sounds like a smart strategy. However, I also need the video function (unusual, because ordinarily I don't care about video in a photographic camera, but this situation is special). And I don't know of any places that specifically dissect the video performance of the LX5 vs EX1 etc.

Can't comment on the sammy, but I recently looked long and hard at both the S95 and LX5. IMO the video feature is better implemented on the LX5 (flare-related streaks aside) due to custom/manual video controls and a better codec. Battery life is significantly better on the LX5, and the lens is wider and faster overall (faster at the long end, same at wide end). Those alone should put it above the S95 according to your requirements.

The LX5 is far from a "brick" but it is slight heavier than the S95 and an awkward shape due to the protruding lens. I would still classify it as a very compact and easy-to-carry camera, however, just not quite as compact as the S95.

Panasonic did indeed seem to f-up on the jpeg engine of the LX5, and white balance is reportedly not as reliable as the Canon either, but I've not seen any reviews in which Panny jpegs are judged when sharpening and NR has been turned down in camera. RAW image quality is excellent, however, and I've not seen any samples that suggest the S95 does any better. The streaking in LX5 videos might get fixed with a firmware update, but if you're not in bright sunlight I doubt it will be a problem (it seems to be a type of flare)

Thanks, it seems we've reached very similar conclusions. But for all that, I think the EX1 is closer to the LX5 than the S95. I can't seem to find much info on the video capabilities of the EX1. Ultimately, I suppose, I trust Panny more as far as build quality and fit and finish than Samsung. But objective tests would be nice

I have both. Very much enjoy both. The Samsung has the better build and the screen is a joy to work with. Samsung did their homework with the EX1. Do not know about the video, never have used it and probably never will

Brian

I looked at the EX1 also before deciding on the LX5, reading the review on DPR the EX! has a slower RAW record time lag, which was one reason I got the LX5m shorter zoom also
--
Ed in Arizona

'Any man who can drive safely while kissing a pretty girl is simply not giving the kiss the attention it deserves.' - Albert Einstein

I didn't consider the Samsung. I tried the S95 but ended up buying the LX5. Aside from the annoying lens-cap-on-piece-of-string issue, it's a great little camera (so far) and slightly, but meaningfully, more responsive than the S95.

From what I've heard/read the EX-1 shoots only standard-def video, while the LX-5 shoots high-def. Also, the LX-5 allows zooming while shooting video, I think - not sure about the EX-1..? The EX-1 may shoot sharper stills, but if you are shooting raw the rectilinear lens distortion (barrel/pincushion) corrections will be done in post-processing software. I'm not sure how widely supported the EX-1 raw files are by the various pp softwares, and how well those corrections are done by those softwares that do them 'silently-automatically' for EX-1 raw files? Those corrections incur slight blurring costs which depending how they're done for each camera could negate any possible lens sharpness advantage the EX-1 might have over the LX5. Others, particularly those who own both cameras, could tell you better. I'm just raising the question. If you're sticking to shooting jpegs those rectilinear corrections are done in-camera of course. Finally, the EX-1 has an articulated ( and according to reports exceptionally readable) display, if that is important to you. Why don't you start a similar thread in the Samsung forum to get a broader range of views?

Wow, Brian, that's a surprise - I'd have thought the LX5 would have the better build. Hmm. Very interesting.

painter19, thank you for your thoughts. It sounds like the video function is definitely better on the LX5. If ultimately the slightly faster lens on the EX1 does not translate into meaningfully better low light performance, then it sounds like to me the LX5 pulls ahead somewhat overall. Good idea about asking about the EX1 on the Samsung forum... only according to the posting FAQ it's frowned upon to cross-post in forums... I'm wary of doing anything wrong here... maybe if I rephrase the question?

Cronfini, You're very welcome. Just my thoughts from the outside so to speak , as I don't own either camera ( I do have an LX3) . I'm no expert on forum rules, but I would imagine it would be fine to start a new freshly worded thread on the same subject on the Samsung forum.

I tried out the EX1 for about a week

The build and feel is fantastic,the screen is great as well,lens is very sharp and RAW converted IQ was excellent, better then my LX3 , less noise and sharper lens helped.

The big problem are the RAW files ,they are MASSIVE and the camera buffer is painfully slow hence why i returned the camera.

Last month, I bought an EX1. No doubt its a superb camera and the ISO Noise control was very good. But the Video recording is only VGA and the focus was very slow. In day light while focusing, the image seems to freeze while the camera locks onto the target.

But these are very minor things. The Picture quality is if not better, as good as LX5 and the Lens is super f1.8!

Other than the small things, the main point was HD Video recording of the LX5 that forced me to switch ;-)

You must know, the shutter speed is only 1/1500 on EX1 MAX! that says it clearly that its primarily meant for indoors or low light outdoors where shutter speed more than 1/1500 is not needed.

I am from Singapore where its sunny and its VERY bright so 1/1500 is not fast enough.

LX5 was a clear choice for me

--
Faisal.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/faisalee/

I was planning to get the EX1 also, but after reading about all the issues with slow write times and the fact that they used a crappy and poorly supported RAW format, I'm going to go with the LX5.

Sye68 said:

I tried out the EX1 for about a week

The build and feel is fantastic,the screen is great as well,lens is very sharp and RAW converted IQ was excellent, better then my LX3 , less noise and sharper lens helped.

The big problem are the RAW files ,they are MASSIVE and the camera buffer is painfully slow hence why i returned the camera.

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I picked up both the LX5 and the S95 for our vacation in the Bahamas last week. I originally intended on returning one and keeping the best camera suited for my needs. I ended up keeping both the S95 and the LX5. I am "giving" the S95 to my wife to replace her horrible 7mp Sony P&S. These cameras while very much alike, serve very different purposes in my eyes. I ended up taking the S95 out with me more than the LX5, but it was a sacrifice for the sake of size. I plan on using the S95 has a run across town and may end of seeing something worth shooting camera, and the LX5 as my photography camera. I don't know what it is about the LX5 pictures, but they just seem to have a little more magic in there. I have been amazed by the pics from the LX5. IMO the S95 isn't far behind, but it still is behind.

As far as the EX1, just not having HD video was reason enough for me to knock it out of the running. I want these cameras to last for a few years at least, I imagine having a camera a few years down the road without HD is really going bother me when watching my movies on my 60" plasma. Let us know which one you decide on.

Here are a few pics I snapped last week testing it out. Most are uncropped original Jpeg.

CronFini said:

1)I will be on location without immediate access to charging - so long battery life is a plus (I would buy extra batteries as well) - the LX5 seems good here, the S95 poor, the EX1?

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You can carry an extra battery or two. They're very small.

CronFini said:

2)I'll be shooting a lot of indoor and small spaces. Therefore wide and fast is a big plus. Here the LX5 and EX1 shine compared to the S95. Between the LX5 and EX1, the EX1 is a bit faster on the wide end at f 1.8 vs 2.0.

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If you really need 24mm, then the S95 doesn't work for you. How important is 24mm?

CronFini said:

3)Low light performance is a must - all three pretty equal, though looking at the specs you'd think the LX5 and EX1 would be better than the S95.

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Specs don't always correspond to reality. Most of the reviews I've seen have given the edge to the S95 over the LX5 for low light performance.

CronFini said:

However, all these comparisons between the LX5 and EX1 (and S95) are somewhat anecdotal, and I hate to make a decision based on rumors and random opinions. I trust dpreviews in-depth reviews above all others.

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There are published reviews at very good review sites, such as http://www.dcresource.com/ and http://www.imaging-resource.com/ These sites also publish comparative galleries.

There is a dpr review of the EX1 ( http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/samsungtl500/ ) and there are reviews of the LX3 and S90.

If you must have dpreview reviews, then wait to see if they publish in time. You have some time.

You could go to a camera store and try each camera. Some would buy the three, test them and return two. Other think this unfair to the store.

--
http://fruminousbandersnatch.blogspot.com/

Thank you all. A lot of food for thought. In the end, I will try to locate an EX1 I can borrow and an LX5 and do some tests myself. I guess a hands on experience is the best guide, never mind the specs. I'll report my (subjective) findings here and my ultimate decision. It'll happen sometime in November, probably toward the end of November.

I tried out both the EX1 and the Pana LX5 (and actually the Leica as well). The Leica was the prettiest, but I saw no reason to pay an extra $300++ for that red dot.

The EX1 was impressive, but a bit too big for me. As is, the LX5 is straining the concept of "pocketable" - the EX1 leaps clearly beyond. If I'm gonna lug around a camera that's not pocketable, I may as well do that with my D300.

There were other minor issues, like the EX1 not coming with a battery charger, that pushed me firmly toward the LX5. I got it from Amazon for $421 and free shipping. I bought an extra battery for $50 from B&H, a couple of SDHC cards (16GB Sandisk and a 32GB Transcend) from Amazon, and... a red official leather case DMW-CLX5-R from Japan Direct Shop for $125.

I already got the LX5, the cards and the extra battery. I'm still waiting (and waiting) on the leather case... hope I'm not getting scammed.

Anyhow, I took it out today for the first time, and the camera is outstanding! Lovely. I intentionally shot in very difficult conditions, and the video function (which was important to me) performed perfectly... I was worried reading about purple banding, but even in harsh sunlight, it was perfect (though shooting regular jpgs I got areas blown out). All in all, very pleased so far.

I do find the neck strap very awkward and the lens cap string very ugly, but such is life.