Words from Toshi on the Mount

Interview with Toshiyuki Terada (aka "Terada-San", "Toshi", and the ever popular on this website "Mr."...hmmm, last Mr. I knew was Mr. Ed ), the poor guy charged with "DSLR development", kind of an oxymoron given the recent demise of 2/3's of their DSLR line.

http://biofos.com/esystem/q&a_terada.html

Some highlights:

• In Q1 he cites the advantages of the FT line in balancing size and IQ, but then uses the mFT 75-300 as his example.
• Dodges the issue of whether Panny stabbed them in the back by not sharing the GH2 sensor, instead saying "We are free and have selected current sensors as the best ones for our products. ". Uh huh.
• On whether 12MP is the max for FT "Olympus has not mentioned about the limit of the pixel count for 4/3rds." Sounds defensive given their lagging APS-C's 14MP minimum in newer mid-priced bodies. Also states "but we are not sticking to any specific MP", which I interpret as the're looking for a new sensor manufacturer.
• He completely dodges the question on why they've abandoned FT bodies other than the E-X line
• Loved this question :"What happens if m4/3rds is simply a short-lived fad and 4/3rds is 90% dead and cannot/will not be revived?". Toshi's response on mirrorless (i.e., not mFT) approaching 40% market share in Japan, but "people in western countries will appreciate the benefits of the new system as well, though it may take a bit longer to convey our messages" deflects from the lack of interest in abandoning full featured DSLR's for poorer performing mirrorless bodies/lenses at premium prices.
• no clear plans for a pro FT body
• FT 100mm Macro been dropped from development list
• States a "we aim for a 7 year time frame" for support of FT repairs
• Really tows the company line against major buyer headwinds here: Q15: "Many 4/3rds enthusiasts now feel Olympus has abandoned them. They feel that their previous DSLR choice is now denied within Olympus products. Does Olympus recognise this?" A15: "We are convinced that the enthusiasts of E-System users will be satisfied with E-5, and we continue providing the product with which they will be also satisfied in future." Wow, these guys really are stone cold deaf to OM sized IBIS DSLR (read E-5xx/E-6xx) users.

My personal favorite, right alongside the "we can't say concrete product plan" and "we also do our best" mea culpas sprinkled through the interview,

Q28. "Where do you see both 4/3rds and m4/3rds in 5 years time? Where would you like to see them?"
A28. "We are convinced both systems will be existing as one beautiful system."

Interpret as "everything's just fine in jolly Olyland, just take your Soma, buy an E-5 and chill"?

Kudos to Biofos for really pressing with the tough questions, we E-5xx/E-6xx users very much appreciate it. The answers, well, what did we expect? Bottomline, I'm still happy with my purchase into the FT system 3 years ago and look forward to several more years before choosing an upgrade path, so it's largely entertainment to me at this point.

--
Sailin' Steve

His job is going to suck for a while.

Stuck between the walking dead 4/3rds and the limping m4/3 systems.

He needs something to help Olympus out.

A pro level m4/3rds camera with a body layout like the Fujifilm FinePix X100 and a decent f2.8 standard zoom would do it. It does not even need the fancy optical viewfinder - if it can take different lenses it will appeal to lots of people.

A E-630 with the e-5 sensor by next summer would also change things.

The lx3 / lx5 / s90 / s95 / Samsung TL500 (EX1) clone with the Zuiko lens is moving into a crowded market. I wish them well but it will be tougher to shine when you are moving into such an established catagory.

--
Jon

What he really means to say is "What good is building a full range of bodies for whiners who will be unhappy NO MATTER WHAT, who will keep comparing there stuff to other brands we don't even compete with, in a market where we don't make money NO MATTER WHAT, when we can spend the same money building m43 for a market which is highly lucrative and where all our clients are newcomers and HAPPY ?"

And forgive me G - I think the same. Best thing Olympus can do right now is to get rid of all the users who bought an E-620 with the dual lens kit at $600, and think that Olympus actually owes them.

Then, they can concentrate on a m43 system which would work decently with 4/3 HG and SHG lenses, and push the m43 client base to buy into them. If part of the old 4/3 non E3 / E5 fan base bites into it - all the better.

I think this is great and just clarifies for me the conclusions I have already come to. Olympus is confident they can match the current and future focus performance needs with existing 4/3rds lenses on a future body. The are confident they can match/beat OVF performance with and EVF that you bring up to your eye. This very well may mean that there isn't a mirror... but who cares as long as the match/beat performance? There are many, many, many advantages that will come with these improvements and Olympus has shown over the years that they are at the forefront of finding and implementing those sort of advantages.

Looking forward to the E-5 and beyond.

--

goblin said:

What he really means to say is "What good is building a full range of bodies for whiners who will be unhappy NO MATTER WHAT, who will keep comparing there stuff to other brands we don't even compete with, in a market where we don't make money NO MATTER WHAT, when we can spend the same money building m43 for a market which is highly lucrative and where all our clients are newcomers and HAPPY ?"

And forgive me G - I think the same. Best thing Olympus can do right now is to get rid of all the users who bought an E-620 with the dual lens kit at $600, and think that Olympus actually owes them.

Then, they can concentrate on a m43 system which would work decently with 4/3 HG and SHG lenses, and push the m43 client base to buy into them. If part of the old 4/3 non E3 / E5 fan base bites into it - all the better.

Click to expand...

LOL

There is a business plan... try and sell E-pl1 owners on the 35-100mm and the 90-250mm lenses.

Who cares if they take 2+ seconds to auto focus and the lens mount can't support the lens weight

You are right; the people who have spent $10,000+ on lenses and are now looking at the end of the cameras that can use those lenses (in any useful way) are just being ungrateful whiners.

At least when Fuji stopped making DSLR’s the lenses still worked on Nikon cameras. The same happened when Kodak stopped it's DSLR's that took Canon or Nikon lenses.

Of course the counter argument is we can’t predict the future and many Sigma DSLR owners sold their sigma lens mount lenses at a loss because they were tired of being stuck at a 4.7 million pixel FOVEON sensor.

It would suck to have just sold things at a loss right before this announcement:

http://www.dpreview.com/news/1006/10061102sigmasd15available.asp

• 46Mp 1.5x crop Foveon X3 sensor (4800 x 3200 x 3 layers)

If Fuji can add a phase-detection "Hybrid autofocus" system to a P&S camera that sells for $299 then Panasonic can add it into the GH3.

http://www.dpreview.com/news/1007/10072109fujifilmf300exr.asp

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/723314-REG/Fujifilm_16083016_FinePix_F300EXR_Digital_Point.html

A GH3 with multi aspect high resolution sensor and 1080p video matched with phase-detection AF including SAF and CAF (Fujifilm FinePix F300EXR says it has Tracking AF) would change things.

What if other camera makers get their version of a Foveon X3 sensor to work?

Or what if Panasonic makes this happen:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13580_3-9864843-39.html

"Yamada showed a 177x144 pixel image sensor that takes three photos of the same scene in rapid succession. In one example, he said, the first exposure lasts 1.5 microseconds, the second 150 microseconds, and the third 15,000 microseconds (not far from a 1/60 second exposure). Extra circuitry built into the sensor records the data from the multiple exposures and uses an assortment of electronic capacitors to combine it into a single image that spans a greater dynamic range. "

Or what if this is true:

http://image-sensors-world.blogspot.com/2010/09/canon-rumored-to-introduce-bsi-based.html

Canon Rumored to Introduce BSI-based DSLR in 2011

EOSHD.com published a rumor that Canon is going to launch a mirrorless DSLR camera based on 22MP BSI sensor. The new BSI sensor is 18mm x 12mm in size (approximately Micro 4/3rds sized, but having 3:2 aspect ratio). The camera has a feature that windows the centre part of the sensor. In this sensor windowing mode, the camera's continuous shooting rate increases to a whopping 20fps and resolution drops to 5.5MP whilst offering a tighter crop of the image

--
Jon

Jon Stock said:

There is a business plan... try and sell E-pl1 owners on the 35-100mm and the 90-250mm lenses.

Who cares if they take 2+ seconds to auto focus and the lens mount can't support the lens weight

Click to expand...

Are people mounting these lenses on a 520\ 620 on a tripod? Even carrying these by the grip seems "interesting". The internal framing is not that solid, if I remember.

Brent Lossing said:

Brent Lossing said:

There is a business plan... try and sell E-pl1 owners on the 35-100mm and the 90-250mm lenses.

Who cares if they take 2+ seconds to auto focus and the lens mount can't support the lens weight

Click to expand...

Are people mounting these lenses on a 520\ 620 on a tripod? Even carrying these by the grip seems "interesting". The internal framing is not that solid, if I remember.

Click to expand...

Doug Brown is using the 35-100 with a Pen...

--
Thanks,
brent

http://lossing.zenfolio.com/

sderdiarian said:

Q28. "Where do you see both 4/3rds and m4/3rds in 5 years time? Where would you like to see them?"
A28. "We are convinced both systems will be existing as one beautiful system."

Click to expand...

That's a little funny, considering this statement:

sderdiarian said:

"we aim for a 7 year time frame" for support of FT repairs

Click to expand...

So, in 5 years there's going to be one beautiful system, with the 4/3 components being serviceable another 2 years? That's hilarious.

gbbiv said:

I think this is great and just clarifies for me the conclusions I have already come to. Olympus is confident they can match the current and future focus performance needs with existing 4/3rds lenses on a future body.

Click to expand...

This seems to be mostly a matter of wishful thinking, if not outright "blowing smoke", because of the fundamentally different types, focusing and focus motors and mechanisms used by contrast-detection and phase detection systems. It is probably worth a bit of research for any serious photographers to the basic principles involved. There are surely workarounds, but Auto-focus systems have hardly been Olympus' strongest suite , especially given the big problems with CAF.

gbbiv said:

The are confident they can match/beat OVF performance with and EVF that you bring up to your eye. This very well may mean that there isn't a mirror... but who cares as long as the match/beat performance? There are many, many, many advantages that will come with these improvements and Olympus has shown over the years that they are at the forefront of finding and implementing those sort of advantages.

Looking forward to the E-5 and beyond.

Click to expand...

And, unless the E-5 really has some major improvements in these errors, will I, like many others here, will be very seriously considering other options.

A friend whom I won over to the Olympus system just got back from the British Columbia coast. He couldn't hide his disappointment, as told me just how much faster and more reliable a fellow shooter's entry-level Canon and $400 lens were, when trying to shoot flying bald eagles. The Canon shooter had many tack-sharp, preciely focused and metered images. None of the ones he took with his E-520 and 70-300 were better than barely passable snapshots.

He doesn't consider himself a great action shooter, but he is an experienced photographer. His shooting companion was an absolute beginner.

Over the past years, I probably got half a dozen friends and acquaintances shooting Olympus. At his point, I regret doing so, and honestly find it impossible to recommend Olympus to others.

The mny broken promises leave an especially bitter taste after such experiences as those of my friend.

--
erichK
saskatoon, canada

http://erichk.zenfolio.com/

http://www.fototime.com/inv/7F3D846BCD301F3

underwater photos:
http://www.scubaboard.com/gallery/showgallery.php/cat/500/ppuser/5567

every system has their pros and cons. oly system is really not meant for sports and i take it in my stride. The problem with nikon and canon are their non-IS primes & uwa that forces them to use high iso or tripods when we oly users can happily shoot handheld. Until some ultra rich photo enthusiast can merge sony, canon, nikon, oly and panasonic and distill only their best features, photographers just have to choose the best system that suit their needs. At the end of the day, the gadget is just the means to the end, where the end is the images we are after.

--
Minliang
http://practical-photography.blogspot.com/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/market-uncle/

Brent Lossing said:

Brent Lossing said:

Brent Lossing said:

There is a business plan... try and sell E-pl1 owners on the 35-100mm and the 90-250mm lenses.

Who cares if they take 2+ seconds to auto focus and the lens mount can't support the lens weight

Click to expand...

Are people mounting these lenses on a 520\ 620 on a tripod? Even carrying these by the grip seems "interesting". The internal framing is not that solid, if I remember.

Click to expand...

Doug Brown is using the 35-100 with a Pen...

--
Thanks,
brent

http://lossing.zenfolio.com/

Click to expand...

IQ wise it would be a good combination. It will be nice to have a E-pl1 and use it as a backup camera/ traveling light camera.

--
Jon

TheEye said:

TheEye said:

Q28. "Where do you see both 4/3rds and m4/3rds in 5 years time? Where would you like to see them?"
A28. "We are convinced both systems will be existing as one beautiful system."

Click to expand...

That's a little funny, considering this statement:

TheEye said:

"we aim for a 7 year time frame" for support of FT repairs

Click to expand...

So, in 5 years there's going to be one beautiful system, with the 4/3 components being serviceable another 2 years? That's hilarious.

Click to expand...

The 7 year time frame is from when they end production. Although people here have posted about getting their e-1 serviced and no-one has mentioned having the service refused.
--
Jon

gbbiv said:

I think this is great and just clarifies for me the conclusions I have already come to. Olympus is confident they can match the current and future focus performance needs with existing 4/3rds lenses on a future body.

Click to expand...

Nice for them, if they're that confident. But what good does that do customers? Customers who'd like to buy a camera right now that would match the AF performance we're used to with a wide range of existing SLR lenses, a camera offering an up-to-date feature set and up-to-date sensor performance? Without having to pay the enormous price of an E-5?

Like what the competition already offers at very sensible price points for quite some time? I mean, just look at the still best-selling Nikon D90 (introduced 2008!) and its price tag. Except for the svivel/tilt display, it offers just about everything I'd expect from a current Olympus camera, maybe a few more pixels would be in order, but instead of updating the E-620 and E-30 with the few items that are missing, they get cancelled – with all what's left being the promise of an unspecified mirrorless camera to come in an unspecified future.

Would anyone in his right mind buy shares of a company purely based on such promises?

Cheers,
Robert

minliang said:

oly system is really not meant for sports

Click to expand...

What is it really meant for?

--
Rikke

Jon Stock said:

Brent Lossing said:

Brent Lossing said:

Jon Stock said:

There is a business plan... try and sell E-pl1 owners on the 35-100mm and the 90-250mm lenses.

Who cares if they take 2+ seconds to auto focus and the lens mount can't support the lens weight

Click to expand...

Are people mounting these lenses on a 520\ 620 on a tripod? Even carrying these by the grip seems "interesting". The internal framing is not that solid, if I remember.

Click to expand...

Doug Brown is using the 35-100 with a Pen...
--
Thanks,
brent

http://lossing.zenfolio.com/

Click to expand...

IQ wise it would be a good combination. It will be nice to have a E-pl1 and use it as a backup camera/ traveling light camera.

--
Jon

Click to expand...

The problem with the E-Pen is, that very much like its wonderfully cute but never-all-that-successful namesake, it is essentially a small, second system, a gadget-loving casual shooter, or a moneyed tourist's kind of camera.

DSLR's supplanted range-finders and twin-lens reflexes and took over most of what had been the medium and even small view-camera markets (as demonstrated by PC lenses for DSLRs) because they became a turnkey, do- anything system. The Pen-series shows little sign of being able to fill that tall order anytime soon, and even the E-x series would still have a fair way to go (and has essentially given up.)

In the light of the historic evolution of the DSLR's role, it is frankly the most deliberately blind kind of brand-sycophancy ("fanboyism") to try to insist that Olympus users should be satisfied with a $1700 camera some of whose basic features - most especially its CAF - do not approach the performance of Nikon or Canon cameras that sell for much less.

I have enjoyed my Olympus cameras, but also been frustrated by them. They have some excellent features, but also crippling handicaps. This is why I have repeatedly almost bought the SHG 150f2 at attractive prices, but chosen to wait. Unless there is some really credible evidence that Olympus actually has improved the AF and especially the CAF on the otherwise sensible E-5, I will be taking a long hard look at what $2,000US would buy with Nikon.

--
erichK
saskatoon, canada

http://erichk.zenfolio.com/

http://www.fototime.com/inv/7F3D846BCD301F3

underwater photos:
http://www.scubaboard.com/gallery/showgallery.php/cat/500/ppuser/5567

TheEye said:

TheEye said:

Q28. "Where do you see both 4/3rds and m4/3rds in 5 years time? Where would you like to see them?"
A28. "We are convinced both systems will be existing as one beautiful system."

Click to expand...

That's a little funny, considering this statement:

TheEye said:

"we aim for a 7 year time frame" for support of FT repairs

Click to expand...

So, in 5 years there's going to be one beautiful system, with the 4/3 components being serviceable another 2 years? That's hilarious.

Click to expand...

Linking these quotes is so obviously just looking for an angle. You must be a journalist?

Damien
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bilgy_no1

sderdiarian said:

• no clear plans for a pro FT body

Click to expand...

Didn't they just release the E-5? And didn't they state: there will always be a product to use with the SHG lenses?

--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bilgy_no1

Bilgy_no1 said:

sderdiarian said:

• no clear plans for a pro FT body

Click to expand...

Didn't they just release the E-5? And didn't they state: there will always be a product to use with the SHG lenses?

Click to expand...

Yes, this was a mistake in the OP, meant to say "no clear plans for a pro-mFT." Decided to let it be thinking people would figure it out on reading the actual interview. Apologies for the confusion.

--
Sailin' Steve

sderdiarian said:

Interview with Toshiyuki Terada ...
http://biofos.com/esystem/q&a_terada.html
Some highlights:

• In Q1 he cites the advantages of the FT line in balancing size and IQ, but then uses the mFT 75-300 as his example.

Click to expand...

No: the question was about Olympus choosing the 4/3" format size and its advantage over larger formats, not the 4/3 DSLR system in particular, so the 75-300 for m4/3 is a perfectly relevant example.

sderdiarian said:

• Dodges the issue of whether Panny stabbed them in the back by not sharing the GH2 sensor, instead saying "We are free and have selected current sensors as the best ones for our products.".

Click to expand...

How is this dodging the question? He is saying that Olympus chose that sensor, and even indicates some reasons why it was preferred over the wider 18MP/16MP GH2 sensor in answer A5. Avoiding the need to rework the IBIS and OVF system for the wider sensor are possibilities too.

sderdiarian said:

• On whether 12MP is the max for FT "Olympus has not mentioned about the limit of the pixel count for 4/3rds." Sounds defensive given their lagging APS-C's 14MP minimum in newer mid-priced bodies.

Click to expand...

What is defensive there? He is simply refuting yet again a persistent myth by reiterating the fact that Olympus has never said that 4/3 is staying at 12MP forever. But people like the interviewer keep believing that even when Terada has just explicitly aid otherwise: See the drivel in Q5 about that "arbitrary limit imposed on 4/3rds".

sderdiarian said:

Also states "but we are not sticking to any specific MP", which I interpret as the're looking for a new sensor manufacturer.

Click to expand...

Why does it imply a search for a new sensor manufacturer, given that the current sensor manufacturer Panasonic is about to start moving beyond 12MP? Do you believe that Panasonic has said it will never provide a sensor of more than 12MP suitable for use by Olympus?

sderdiarian said:

• He completely dodges the question on why they've abandoned FT bodies other than the E-X line

Click to expand...

Firstly, you mean "other than the E-xx and E-x lines"; only the E-xxx has been announced to be ending after the E-620. (Why no E-50 yet? Maybe because the E-30 already has the 12MP sensor, so is less in need of an update than the E-3.)

Secondly, he has not dodged that question, though perhaps you do not like his answer, which is that the E-xxx users (not E-xx or E-x users) are now best served by Micro Four Thirds.

sderdiarian said:

• no clear plans for a pro FT body

Click to expand...

You mean pro m4/3 I suppose, and his refusal to offer "concrete product plan". The simple if frustrating fact is that, if a company has not announced a particular product or plan, that decision is no going to suddenly change just because an interviewer asks a question. So this sort of question pretty much always gets a "no comment" answer from rep's of all companies.

sderdiarian said:

• States a "we aim for a 7 year time frame" for support of FT repairs

Click to expand...

Which refers to a more-or-less industry standard practice (I have read that it is required by Japanese law): 7 years support for each product beyond its discontinuation; he does not mean 7 years counting from today for all FT products, many of which are not discontinued yet so that the 7 year clock has not started on them.
--
Smaller lenses, better in low light, more telephoto reach:
you can have any two at one time.

erichK said:

Jon Stock said:

Brent Lossing said:

Brent Lossing said:

erichK said:

There is a business plan... try and sell E-pl1 owners on the 35-100mm and the 90-250mm lenses.

Who cares if they take 2+ seconds to auto focus and the lens mount can't support the lens weight

Click to expand...

Are people mounting these lenses on a 520\ 620 on a tripod? Even carrying these by the grip seems "interesting". The internal framing is not that solid, if I remember.

Click to expand...

Doug Brown is using the 35-100 with a Pen...
--
Thanks,
brent

http://lossing.zenfolio.com/

Click to expand...

IQ wise it would be a good combination. It will be nice to have a E-pl1 and use it as a backup camera/ traveling light camera.

--
Jon

Click to expand...

The problem with the E-Pen is, that very much like its wonderfully cute but never-all-that-successful namesake, it is essentially a small, second system, a gadget-loving casual shooter, or a moneyed tourist's kind of camera.

DSLR's supplanted range-finders and twin-lens reflexes and took over most of what had been the medium and even small view-camera markets (as demonstrated by PC lenses for DSLRs) because they became a turnkey, do- anything system. The Pen-series shows little sign of being able to fill that tall order anytime soon, and even the E-x series would still have a fair way to go (and has essentially given up.)

In the light of the historic evolution of the DSLR's role, it is frankly the most deliberately blind kind of brand-sycophancy ("fanboyism") to try to insist that Olympus users should be satisfied with a $1700 camera some of whose basic features - most especially its CAF - do not approach the performance of Nikon or Canon cameras that sell for much less.

I have enjoyed my Olympus cameras, but also been frustrated by them. They have some excellent features, but also crippling handicaps. This is why I have repeatedly almost bought the SHG 150f2 at attractive prices, but chosen to wait. Unless there is some really credible evidence that Olympus actually has improved the AF and especially the CAF on the otherwise sensible E-5, I will be taking a long hard look at what $2,000US would buy with Nikon.

--
erichK
saskatoon, canada

http://erichk.zenfolio.com/

http://www.fototime.com/inv/7F3D846BCD301F3

underwater photos:
http://www.scubaboard.com/gallery/showgallery.php/cat/500/ppuser/5567

Click to expand...

I own a lot of lenses - way to many. I can't disagree with your comment. I just need to look at the cost / advantages of changing brands carefully.

I don't shoot sports so CAF has never been a priority for me.

If Nikon had released a D700x I might be in more of a rush to sell but the differences between 12mp e5 and 12mp D300s is kind of small - especially when CAF is not a big deal.

--
Jon