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A55 & wireless flash with HSS : UNusable

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Lineypi said:
Sounds silly, but does the pre-flash fire in WL mode? Could it be that the flash is firing with the pre-flash from the camera instead of with the shutter? Just a thought, since I've read in a few places that pre-flash can mess this sort of thing up....
Click to expand...
You're mixing up different technologies. With dumb optical slaves pre-flashes ruins the day since they trigger on the pre-flashes so that there's no power left for when the real flash comes.

With wireless it's the pre-flashes that's make the whole thing possible since it's by pre-flashes the camera communicates with the remote units. Like "start flashing now please", "stop flashing, exposure is fine now, thank you for your service" and so on.

OK, the last one would not exactly be a pre -flash, but anyway... :-)
 
DPierce said:
" shallow depth of field with no ambient light in the image"

HSS pops the flash synced to the moment that the shutter curtain is open across the whole frame before it starts to close. The flash duration is necessarily very short. If you shoot at 1/125 sec, the exposure time will still be an action-freezng 1/4000 sec (or thereabouts).
Click to expand...
Incorrect. At those shutter speeds, the curtain is never open across the frame - hence the requirement for HSS. HSS is actually a series of short, low power strobes that follow the thin slit of the curtain as it travels down the frame.

Here is an excellent explanation of how HSS works
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-BD_xD43oA

--
My Flickr - Still lots to learn....
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that when you introduce a new camera or a new flash to this wireless system that you must "introduce" the two.

If memory serves, are you not to set up both the camera and the flash in Wireless mode and take at least one image while the two are joined via the hot shoe before you separate them for future wireless mode use?

If you haven't done this there is a chance they aren't perfectly synchronized.

If you do that and it still doesn't work then either the camera or the flash is broken.

I would assume you have called Sony and explained the problem and sought help. If not, why not? I've always found that Sony answers questions faster and more accurately than forums!
 
It looks like he is attaching the flash to the flash stand using the "mini stand" or "feet" that comes with the flash. There is a 1/4" standard tripod socket in the bottom of the mini stand.

tom
 
Old Pirate said:
that when you introduce a new camera or a new flash to this wireless system that you must "introduce" the two.

If memory serves, are you not to set up both the camera and the flash in Wireless mode and take at least one image while the two are joined via the hot shoe before you separate them for future wireless mode use?

If you haven't done this there is a chance they aren't perfectly synchronized.

If you do that and it still doesn't work then either the camera or the flash is broken.

I would assume you have called Sony and explained the problem and sought help. If not, why not? I've always found that Sony answers questions faster and more accurately than forums!
Click to expand...
It had to do with making sure that both the camera and flash were on the same channel. The lower level earlier WL flashes didn't have an easy way of setting the channel number (I also think they only had 2 channels available while the 54 level and camera had 4.) With the 5400 you could set the channel with a switch on the flash, but the the lower one required mounting the flash, setting the camera to wireless and selecting a channel and half pressing the shutter to "enter" the setting, which I believe also set the flash. (You may have had to set the flash to wireless also, not sure.)

The newer flashes can set the channel easier. Since the OP said he had used the flash and camera in WL mode ok, just not HSS wireless, I'd assume that the channels are synced. But assumptions are never a good thing, and he should probably check that it doesn't change in HSS (never heard of that before). Also if he can see the off camera flashes fire, then they are on the same channel.

tom
 
Hi,

I have just purchased a a55v and have a HVL-F58AM FLASH, I also have the Sony 50mm 1.4 lens.

I still have my a550, sot I tried the HSS test.

With the a55v on wireless, (removed from the camera and HSS on) the image was about 4 stops darker than with the flash mounted on the a55. (iso 200, F1.4, 1/4000 sec). I had to reduce the shutter speed to 1000 to get a reasonable image.

Using the same test at 1/4000 sec with my a550 the wireless image was about 1/2 stop darker.

I hopes this helps, willing to do more tests.
 
3sgilbert said:
Now there is some breaking it down! Hey can you link me to that flash holder on your flash stand? I never seen any with Sony Hotshoe
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My umbrella tripods all have standard threads, so I attach the foot that came with the flash thus getting sony hotshoe. I assume it is what this guy also did.

The head/adapter I use is the Manfrotto 026 Swivel Lite-Tite Umbrella Adapter. I guess any that ends up with the right size threads will do. (that adapter came with two sizes of threads, I can't recall the size that is correct however.)
--
The world just does not fit conveniently into the format of a 35mm camera.
  • W. Eugene Smith
 
OldClicker said:
Just to be sure one more time:
  • You mount the flash (42 or 58) and set camera and flash to 'fill'.
  • Turn on HSS on the flash.
  • Manual mode on camera.
  • Set the shutter speed faster than the sync speed - say 1/500 sec.
  • Every thing works fine - good exposure.
  • Remove the flash.
  • Set the camera and flash to WL (flash IR sensor starts blinking).
  • Flash still has HSS on.
  • Pop up the on board flash.
  • Set the flash where the IR sensor can see the pop up flash.
  • Both the on board flash and the 42/58 fire.
  • Black picture.
If the above is true, it's broke.

BTW - You seem to be implying that you think there is a big difference in HSS flash between 1/250 sec and 1/4000 sec. Te flash duration/number of pulses is almost the same and therefore the power will be almost the same. The flash has to stay open the entire time the curtain is moving. The second curtain will follow a little sooner with the fast shutter speed, but it still takes nearly the sync speed for the curtains to move.

TF
Click to expand...
Revised after reading the manual to set both to WL before removing the flash from the body.
  • You mount the flash (42 or 58) and set camera and flash to 'fill'.
  • Turn on HSS on the flash.
  • Manual mode on camera.
  • Set the shutter speed faster than the sync speed - say 1/500 sec.
  • Every thing works fine - good exposure.
  • Set the camera and flash to WL
  • Remove the flash (flash IR sensor is blinking).
  • Flash still has HSS on.
  • Pop up the on board flash.
  • Set the flash where the IR sensor can see the pop up flash.
  • Both the on board flash and the 42/58 fire.
  • Black picture.
TF
 
3sgilbert said:
Now there is some breaking it down! Hey can you link me to that flash holder on your flash stand? I never seen any with Sony Hotshoe

--
Sony a700 with HVL56AM
Sony a55 ( Wife )
Sigma 10-20mm
Minolta 50mm F1.4
Minolta 28-75 F2.8 Japan
Sony 18-55 ( Kit )
Tamron 70-200 F2.8 Di
Tamron 28-105 F2.8
Tamron 28-200 3.5-5.6
Tamron 200-500 5-6.3 Di
Click to expand...
Hi,

Yes tom is right (and I bought the material in a physical shop in Switzerland) :
3sgilbert said:
"It looks like he is attaching the flash to the flash stand using the "mini stand" or "feet" that comes with the flash. There is a 1/4" standard tripod socket in the > bottom of the mini stand.
Click to expand...
3sgilbert said:
tom"
Click to expand...
--
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JusLookN said:
oddjobb57 thanks for your testing with the A-55. I have a friend who has just acquired the A-33 this week. If he brings it with him tomorrow, I shall do your test with my 42am flash. I believe you are onto the same findings with hss wireless as some others have posted about the A-55 in studio settings with studio flashes. Even though these are not meant for studio photography (in general) this shouldn't be the case for hss flash on-camera and wireless! Hopefully this will get addressed with a firmware update soon.
--
Glenn

I'm kinda partial to video, but I'm hangin!
Click to expand...
I posted the issue in another discussion board. Someone performed the same tests than me (and posted the results). There is no issue with the A33.

But on my side I tested 2 different A55.
-Mine : A55 + differents lenses + 2 differents flashes (F42 & F58)
-Shop : A55 + kit lens + 1 F58 (everything coming from the shop, not my F58)

--> same underexposure.

--
http://www.photo-production.net/vincentpham
 
GeoffM007 said:
Hi,

I have just purchased a a55v and have a HVL-F58AM FLASH, I also have the Sony 50mm 1.4 lens.
Click to expand...
Nice choice ! ;)
GeoffM007 said:
I still have my a550, sot I tried the HSS test.

With the a55v on wireless, (removed from the camera and HSS on) the image was about 4 stops darker than with the flash mounted on the a55. (iso 200, F1.4, 1/4000 sec). I had to reduce the shutter speed to 1000 to get a reasonable image.

Using the same test at 1/4000 sec with my a550 the wireless image was about 1/2 stop darker.

I hopes this helps, willing to do more tests.
Click to expand...
It would be really appreciated if you could run perform the same tests than me (flash & camera @ 1 meter from the subjetct) and post the results. This would definitely confirm that there is an issue with the A55 series.

--
http://www.photo-production.net/vincentpham
 
Old Pirate said:
that when you introduce a new camera or a new flash to this wireless system that you must "introduce" the two.

If memory serves, are you not to set up both the camera and the flash in Wireless mode and take at least one image while the two are joined via the hot shoe before you separate them for future wireless mode use?

If you haven't done this there is a chance they aren't perfectly synchronized.

If you do that and it still doesn't work then either the camera or the flash is broken.
Click to expand...
I tried this and btw nothing is broken (or the 2 A55 I have tested are broken), see all the different tests performed with different cameras, flashes, etc...
Old Pirate said:
I would assume you have called Sony and explained the problem and sought help. If not, why not? I've always found that Sony answers questions faster and more accurately than forums!
Click to expand...
I contacted the support via the official contact form on the Sony website, no response so far...
--
http://www.photo-production.net/vincentpham
 
have you tried to contact Gary Friedman from The Friedman Archives. He is known for the use of Wireless Flash within the KM/Sony world. He has written several books concerning the usage of Wireless Flash and I bet he is writing a book right now about the usage of the a33/a55

And did you try the Dyxum site?
--
\Iggy
 
O.K. I think he brought it tonight. If I get it, I'll test it anyway! Glad to hear the A-33 isn't exhibiting this also. Thanks.
--
Glenn

I'm kinda partial to video, but I'm hangin!
 
This is a second confirmation on the A-33 shooting hss wireless. My co-worker brought his a-33 and I did take a photo of my flash in hss with it in wireless mode off camera. It fired as it should!. So the A-33 does wireless hss flash. I don't know what could be the problems with the A-55. Good Luck! :-)

Note: I had the camera set for 1/320 sec. @ iso 200 and the 42am set for wireless hss. With the pop-up flash and the camera in wireless, the off camera flash fired as it should.



--
Glenn

I'm kinda partial to video, but I'm hangin!
 
JusLookN said:
This is a second confirmation on the A-33 shooting hss wireless. It fired as it should!. So the A-33 does wireless hss flash. I don't know what could be the problems with the A-55. Good Luck! :-)
Click to expand...
If you read the OP again, the problem with the A55 is NOT that it doesn't work at all, the flash fires, but constantly underexposes when in HSS mode. Your shot can't confirm or infirm the problem, you need to reproduce the OP's setup, i.e. try to photograph a subject with the flash placed 1m away from it, both in HSS mode and non-HSS. If both photos are OK then there's no issue. If the non-HSS photo is OK and the HSS one is underexposed, try to force the flash power to 1/1, if it's correctly or overexposed this time then you have the same problem.

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I don't know if the setting is possible with A55, but a long time ago I had a similar issue with the A100 and it turned out that the flash was set to the rear curtain and it underexposed in a similar way like your pics. Changing that solved the problem.

Nick
 
Kilrah said:
JusLookN said:
This is a second confirmation on the A-33 shooting hss wireless. It fired as it should!. So the A-33 does wireless hss flash. I don't know what could be the problems with the A-55. Good Luck! :-)
Click to expand...
If you read the OP again, the problem with the A55 is NOT that it doesn't work at all, the flash fires, but constantly underexposes when in HSS mode. Your shot can't confirm or infirm the problem, you need to reproduce the OP's setup, i.e. try to photograph a subject with the flash placed 1m away from it, both in HSS mode and non-HSS. If both photos are OK then there's no issue. If the non-HSS photo is OK and the HSS one is underexposed, try to force the flash power to 1/1, if it's correctly or overexposed this time then you have the same problem.
Click to expand...
Not quite right either. There is no reason to assume that HSS and non-HSS would both expose the same. The symptom is a difference between on camera HSS and WL HSS.

TF

Btw - "infirm"?
 
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