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HS-10 RAW pictures getting warped on import

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Martijn Laan

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Hello,

The other day I received my new HS-10 and I'm quite happy with it so far except for one problem: even though the preview looks fine, when I import .raf files in Adobe Lightroom 3.2 the image gets 'warped'. The same thing happens with Helicon Filter + DCRAW, with Scarab Darkroom and with Adobe DNG Convertor. The only program so far that does work correctly is the SilkyPix RAW File Convertor that came with the camera. However, I would much prefer to use Lightroom. Here's an example photo of my tv showing what I mean:



This file was developed from .raf to .jpg with Adobe Lightroom 3.2.

Anyone got an idea what causes this? The only thing I can think of so far is the firmware version: it's 1.0.3 and I dont know what changes are in 1.0.3 since Fuji's site doesnt list it yet, maybe they changed something to the .raf format. So I'm tempted to try and downgrade to 1.0.2 but didnt do so yet since I cant get back to 1.0.3 if it doesnt help.

Any other 1.0.3 HS-10 owner who has succesfully used Lightroom/Helicon Filter/Darkroom?

Many thanks for any pointers & greetings,
Martijn
 
Have you reported this problem to Fuji? looks like v1.03 has some problems.
--
Just a Pixelpusher, currently shooting Fujifilm Finepix HS10
 
You may be right. Fujfilm may have changed the distortion correction algorithm in the latest firmware and not informed Adobe.
 
Hi,
rattymouse said:
You may be right. Fujfilm may have changed the distortion correction algorithm in the latest firmware and not informed Adobe.
Click to expand...
Thanks for your reply. I forgot to add that the amount of warping depends on the zoom level. At some point it starts 'bending outwards' instead of 'inwards' like on the picture I posted. Could this distortion correction algorithm indeed be related to the zoom level?

Thanks & greetings,
Martijn Laan
 
... Fairly simply, RFC is applying an automated lens correction profile, and Lightroom (ACR) is not. This is not related to firmware. It is just how the edit program works.

ACR has presets for some lenses, but not for the HS-10. Most photographers, myself included, use programs such as PTLens to correct lens distortion.

Personally, I prefer the ACR approach as I then have control over whether I correct the image and to what extent.

The first example here shows an image converted with ACR (top) and RFC (below). You can see that the RFC image has lost quite a lot around the edges and has also been compressed downwards in the vertical.



The second example is simply the image after manual lens correction is applied in ACR. It becomes clear how much 'edge' information will disappear after the image is cropped. Still, it is far less than if I were simply to rely on RFC's automated approach.

In Lightroom, you simply go to Lens Corrections (Manual) and adjust the Distortion level there. As you adjust, a grid will overlay the image for reference.

You then adjust the Vertical/Horizontal size to 'crop' away the affected areas, and rotate to suit.

Hope this helps.



Cheers.
--
Rgds, Dave.
Have fun - take lotsa pix.

http://eyemindsoul.blogspot.com/
 
Excellent. Thanks for the tip. I need to start shooting in RAW and play with ACR/Lightroom more.
--
Just a Pixelpusher, currently shooting Fujifilm Finepix HS10
 
Martijn Laan said:
rattymouse said:
You may be right. Fujfilm may have changed the distortion correction algorithm in the latest firmware and not informed Adobe.
Click to expand...
Thanks for your reply. I forgot to add that the amount of warping depends on the zoom level. At some point it starts 'bending outwards' instead of 'inwards' like on the picture I posted. Could this distortion correction algorithm indeed be related to the zoom level?

Thanks & greetings,
Martijn Laan
Click to expand...
No. The distortion characteristics of the lens change with the level of zoom. The HS10 has a very short focal length at the wide end which introduces a totally different type of distortion compared to while zooming out. The software corrects for all of these types of distortion while Adobe Camera Raw does not.
 
Martijn Laan said:
Hello,

The other day I received my new HS-10 and I'm quite happy with it so far except for one problem: even though the preview looks fine, when I import .raf files in Adobe Lightroom 3.2 the image gets 'warped'. The same thing happens with Helicon Filter + DCRAW, with Scarab Darkroom and with Adobe DNG Convertor. The only program so far that does work correctly is the SilkyPix RAW File Convertor that came with the camera. However, I would much prefer to use Lightroom.

This file was developed from .raf to .jpg with Adobe Lightroom 3.2.

Anyone got an idea what causes this? The only thing I can think of so far is the firmware version: it's 1.0.3 and I dont know what changes are in 1.0.3 since Fuji's site doesnt list it yet, maybe they changed something to the .raf format. So I'm tempted to try and downgrade to 1.0.2 but didnt do so yet since I cant get back to 1.0.3 if it doesnt help.

Any other 1.0.3 HS-10 owner who has succesfully used Lightroom/Helicon Filter/Darkroom?

Many thanks for any pointers & greetings,
Martijn
Click to expand...
I doubt that its Lightroom causing your problem. A lot of us use Lightroom 3.2 including me. I import my RAW (RAF) files directly from camera to Lightroom. I have never seen any of my photos exhibit this behaviour in Lightroom or Photoshop CS5 for that matter.

You haven't told us how you approach your work flow, so its a little difficult to say whats going on. It would help if you could.
Have you seen this in the jpeg's from the camera?
Does the camera show any spherical aberration when using it? (warped images)

Probably the best thing is to give us a step by step of your process and see what shakes loose from there.

I am inclined to think thats its either a disparity between the 1.03 firmware and Lightroom or Helicon Filter is trying to apply a lens correction that it shouldn't, and Lightroom cant cope with it. But above all else ... dont panic, theres always a logical answer hiding somewhere. :P oh and greetings too :)

--
Love dat Fuji :P
http://akiwiretrospective.blogspot.com/
http://picasaweb.google.com/113588280921888334019
 
Doh stupid forum wont let me edit me post :(

I meant importing it directly to Lightroom 3 would suggest that its a camera fault as suggested, but it may be Lightroom at fault, it may be a firmware fault, in which case I would send the camera back with a detailed report of whats going on. I did the same thing for my s5700 and they replaced the sensor. I any case I would send the camera back no matter what as it should perform as expected when purchased.

However this does not explain why the Silky-pix software works unless there has been an upgrade to the software. It would certainly explain why its fine in RAF editor but not in anything else.

--
Love dat Fuji :P
http://akiwiretrospective.blogspot.com/
http://picasaweb.google.com/113588280921888334019
 
Hi,
Ralph McKenzie said:
I doubt that its Lightroom causing your problem. A lot of us use Lightroom 3.2 including me. I import my RAW (RAF) files directly from camera to Lightroom. I have never seen any of my photos exhibit this behaviour in Lightroom or Photoshop CS5 for that matter.
Click to expand...
Are you using firmware 1.03? The version is displayed if you hold the Disp/Back button while turning on the camera.
Ralph McKenzie said:
You haven't told us how you approach your work flow, so its a little difficult to say whats going on. It would help if you could.
Have you seen this in the jpeg's from the camera?
Click to expand...
No.
Ralph McKenzie said:
Does the camera show any spherical aberration when using it? (warped images)
Click to expand...
No.
Ralph McKenzie said:
Probably the best thing is to give us a step by step of your process and see what shakes loose from there.
Click to expand...
There's no process, just importing the unaltered .raf in various programs. Here's an overview

Lightroom 3.2: not ok
Helicon Filter + DCRAW 9.0.4: not ok
Scarab Darkroom: not ok
Silkypix Raw File Convertor: ok
Infranview + Formats.dll: ok

.jpg's are always ok. .raf previews are also always ok.

Greetings,
Martijn
 
Hi,
Lloydy said:
... Fairly simply, RFC is applying an automated lens correction profile, and Lightroom (ACR) is not. This is not related to firmware. It is just how the edit program works.
Click to expand...
So you mean that if you take a picture of your tv like I did, you're seeing the same pretty extreme effect after importing it with Lightroom/ACR?
Lloydy said:
Personally, I prefer the ACR approach as I then have control over whether I correct the image and to what extent.
Click to expand...
Yes Lightroom/ACR seem much better and easier to use than RFC.
Lloydy said:
In Lightroom, you simply go to Lens Corrections (Manual) and adjust the Distortion level there. As you adjust, a grid will overlay the image for reference.
Click to expand...
I tried that but it doesnt work well: the effect depends on the zoom level, so each picture needs a different correction.

BTW: thanks for all the nice posts you made on this forum.

Greetings,
Martijn Laan
 
If its doing it with 1.02 , I would say the camera is faulty and would take it back and ask the dealer to exchange it. This assumes its still under warranty. It sounds like its out putting incorrect info that some of the software is able to ignore and the other software cant deal with it.

I use 1.02 firmware and to be honest if my camera did this I would be really unhappy and take it back.

I really hope you find an answer to this as it must be extremely frustrating trying to PP.

--
Love dat Fuji :P
http://akiwiretrospective.blogspot.com/
http://picasaweb.google.com/113588280921888334019
 
Martijn Laan said:
Lloydy said:
... Fairly simply, RFC is applying an automated lens correction profile, and Lightroom (ACR) is not. This is not related to firmware. It is just how the edit program works.
Click to expand...
So you mean that if you take a picture of your tv like I did, you're seeing the same pretty extreme effect after importing it with Lightroom/ACR?
Click to expand...
... Yes. I took a 'quick and dirty' pic of my monitor, at about the same focal length as yours, result is the same as yours both in LR and CS5.

So, I go back to my original answer which is that lens distortion is not being corrected in the ACR engine. This needs to be done manually.

Incidentally, this is much easier in LR, than in CS5. LR provides a reference grid, CS5 doesn't.

For this image, I simply pulled distortion back to minus 17. I haven't posted the corrected image though.

See original example below.

Cheers.



--
Rgds, Dave.
Have fun - take lotsa pix.

http://eyemindsoul.blogspot.com/
 
Wow....in that shot you can see intense distortion. That was RAW correct? JPEGS must be corrected out of the camera. I hope that is true.
 
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