Thom, RRS, and Tripods

Group Idiot said:

Are you serious or is this the reason you are the group idiot ? If you think that buying a $1000 tripod is somehow going to make you a much better photographer than owning a $200 one. Just because you have $3000 in a D100 and lens does mean you have to put another $1000 into a tripod. As aposed to your d100 and lens I doubt you will notice the difference in your pictures. Since you admit you are a amatuer photographer it might be better to buy another lens for your d100 or put it toward something not related to photography. It makes no sense to me to spend that much money on a tripod unless you are using some very heavy and expensive lens such as the large 2.8 telephoto's used for sporting events. Save your money, the $200 tripod will give you the same end result with lighter lens you will most likely use. Group Idiot
wrote:

Talk about a change in thinking. I always viewed tripods as just a
three-legged thing you stuck your camera on top of--nothing more.
Well, it's amazing what an education can do for you, so I thought
I'd share a snippet of my "journey" to [a little] tripod
understanding in hopes that the majority of those out there who are
just like me can avoid many of the mistakes.

If you're a new D100 owner, just as putting junk glass in front of
your new $2,000 camera will compromise your images, so will
slapping it on top of a cheap $200 tripod. And YES, I said $200 and
CHEAP in the same sentence!

Originally, that's about what I "budgeted" (in my mind) for a
"good" tripod. Well, let's just say that I couldn't be more wrong,
and why it will be a HUGE mistake to get something of that caliber
versus sacrificing, biting your lip, living with your "Velcro" or
whatever cheap Piece-O'-Junk you're using now for a few more months
while you save up for something that'll really work. A tripod will
be with you for YEARS, perhaps DECADES, while the D100 may last you
months or a couple of years at best before you feel the urge to
upgrade to whatever amazing technology the future holds.

Here's the genesis of my tripod selection process. I should state
that I'm a poor schmuck amateur like most D100 owners who is FAR
from a pro photog and doesn't make a dime from my shots. This is a
"fun" hobby for me and the wife.

After reading Thom Hogan's new, semi-comprehensive article on
camera support systems (tripods) here:

http://www.bythom.com/support.htm

I began to question my thinking about what constitutes a quality
tripod. I still was not convinced that the ROI (Return On Images)
would be reflected in a $1,000 tripod setup versus a $200 one. Thom
convinced me that I needed to go a little higher, so I moved into
the $500 neighborhood of thinking. Thom's BEST ADVICE in that
entire column was, surprisingly, to order the Really Right Stuff
printed catalog:

http://www.reallyrightstuff.com/business_info/free_catalog/index.html

It contains an veritable treasure trove of information that isn't
available on their site (yet). I just got it today (my address was
hand-written on the large envelope--I love that!) and opened it
immediately. I decided to take it with me on my ascent to the
Porcelain Throne and there absorbed its contents over the course of
more than an hour. Feeling enlighted, I dethroned, numb legs and
all, and felt that there was little choice but to ante up and do it
right. If I have to postpone a lens or accessory purchase for a few
months, so be it. $1,000 is the price of admission into The Club of
No Regrets--at least in this case. I've settled on the Gitzo G1325
CF legs ($500), the Gitzo G1321 leveling base ($160--a must,
absolutely), the Kirk BH1 panning ball head with Quick Release
($350), and QR plates for the 70-200/2.8 HSM, AF-S 300/4, and
D100/MB ($150)--for a grand total of about $1,200!

OUCH! That's a nice AF-S zoom! Are you INSANE?! Are you a PRO?!

Nope, but quality images aren't the exclusive domain of
professional photogs. There are so many reasons to pony up--as much
as it hurts--and follow this advice (I'm just a puppet here, this
is not MY "wisdom"). One poster has said that he'd rather have just
a FEW items of QUALITY over a bunch of cheap items--and this is the
one area that will get you more quality shots than just about
anything else. It allows you to move to any point in the blink of
an eye under the most demanding situations and eliminates mirror
slap and every other factor that will affect the quality of your
images. The tripod is just another extension in the mechanics of
the entire (d)SLR chain, and a cheap one will compromise the entire
package as the weakest link in that chain despite the fact that you
may have $5,000+ in the best camera and optics sitting atop.

I feel "enlightened" now, which is also "empowering" (I hate New
Age buzzwords, and this is the first time I've ever used it, but
it's true). I don't have that reluctance to spend the money any
more, now that I can see the future in this particular instance. I
guess I feel like I just "get it" and it's one of the VERY few
times in my life that I have learned from the experiences of others
without having to duplicate their mistakes the hard way.

I guess I'm just excited about the prospects. I may have to save
pennies for a month or two and live with my POS $100 fluid head
"video" tripod that I've had for 10 years, but as least I won't
make the mistake of getting what I can afford at the moment only to
dump it next year and spend the money again.

I know most here already know this, so I apologize for cluttering
up the forum by stating what, to many, may be the obvious, but I
feel it may be of benefit to many in my position who just don't
know what we don't know.

Brendan
--
Newbie requests inspection and critique of new photos at:
http://www.pbase.com/bgetchel/root

Click to expand...

James Riley said:

The device I need is to rotate the lens back to parallel with the
ground and lock it, without releasing and re-screwing the
into-the-camera tripod screw. A hotshoe level is mounted on the
hotshoe, so I can easliy see when adjustment is needed.

Click to expand...

Tom Maxwell said:

Thanks a lot Idiot! Now my wallet is $1500 lighter. I went with
the 1227, leg paddings, 1321 stablizer, Kirk Ballhead, Kirk quick
release system, Kirk L-plate for my D1X and Mamiya 645AF, and Kirk
standard plate for my RZ. This stuff better be good or I am coming
after you!

Click to expand...

Joseph S. Wisniewski said:

James Riley said:

The device I need is to rotate the lens back to parallel with the
ground and lock it, without releasing and re-screwing the
into-the-camera tripod screw. A hotshoe level is mounted on the
hotshoe, so I can easliy see when adjustment is needed.

Click to expand...

The Novoflex "Panorama plate" is a gem. It's very strong, locked
down I douby tou'd have enough sideways torque to bother it. And
it's a very thin panorama rotator. I've borrowed one before, but
don't have it around right now to measure. If memory serves, it was
about 2cm thick. Is that within range for the centering adjustment
on your panorama adapter?

http://www.novoflex.com/english/html/products.htm

Ciao!

Joe

Click to expand...

jeremiah johnson said:

Anyone who has seen Pearl Harbor can tell you that if you don't
have a decent concept, throwing money & good equipment will only
make it look like higher fidelity, sharper garbage.

Click to expand...

Tom Maxwell said:

Thanks a lot Idiot! Now my wallet is $1500 lighter. I went with
the 1227, leg paddings, 1321 stablizer, Kirk Ballhead, Kirk quick
release system, Kirk L-plate for my D1X and Mamiya 645AF, and Kirk
standard plate for my RZ. This stuff better be good or I am coming
after you!

Click to expand...

entman said:

Are you serious or is this the reason you are the group idiot ? If
you think that buying a $1000 tripod is somehow going to make you a
much better photographer than owning a $200 one. Just because you
have $3000 in a D100 and lens does mean you have to put another
$1000 into a tripod. As aposed to your d100 and lens I doubt you
will notice the difference in your pictures. Since you admit you
are a amatuer photographer it might be better to buy another lens
for your d100 or put it toward something not related to
photography. It makes no sense to me to spend that much money on a
tripod unless you are using some very heavy and expensive lens such
as the large 2.8 telephoto's used for sporting events. Save your
money, the $200 tripod will give you the same end result with
lighter lens you will most likely use. Group Idiot wrote:

Click to expand...

Gene Bonin said:

jeremiah johnson said:

Anyone who has seen Pearl Harbor can tell you that if you don't
have a decent concept, throwing money & good equipment will only
make it look like higher fidelity, sharper garbage.

Click to expand...

I know you're trying to same something here, but I don't know what
it is. Please enlighten me.

Click to expand...

Group Idiot said:

entman said:

Are you serious or is this the reason you are the group idiot ? If
you think that buying a $1000 tripod is somehow going to make you a
much better photographer than owning a $200 one. Just because you
have $3000 in a D100 and lens does mean you have to put another
$1000 into a tripod. As aposed to your d100 and lens I doubt you
will notice the difference in your pictures. Since you admit you
are a amatuer photographer it might be better to buy another lens
for your d100 or put it toward something not related to
photography. It makes no sense to me to spend that much money on a
tripod unless you are using some very heavy and expensive lens such
as the large 2.8 telephoto's used for sporting events. Save your
money, the $200 tripod will give you the same end result with
lighter lens you will most likely use. Group Idiot wrote:

Click to expand...

I differ with that opinion, and even as a newbie amateur I'm in
good company. I do not believe that any $200 (or $300, or $400)
tripod can come close to matching the setup I just bought. I know
$1,200 may be viewed as excessive for an amateur with no lenses
larger than a 300/4, but I also know that I will have this rig for
years and years. Not a lick of vibration, lightweight, ultra
durable, self leveling, quick changing, rapid movement, perfect
panning, not a micron of movement once locked down, and if I even
stumble upon a 400/2.8 AF-S that I can afford, I won't need to buy
anything else.

My D100 will be long gone by many generations over before this
support system needs to even be considered for replacement.

I couldn't be happier with my decision, and I'm just the average
Joe. It's one of those things that just "feel" right once you've
done it. It exhudes quality that the $300 Bogen/Manfrotto setups
lack entirely.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

Brendan
--
Newbie requests inspection and critique of new photos at:
http://www.pbase.com/bgetchel/root

Click to expand...

Gene Caldwell said:

I have had my Velbon Carmagne 630 with Kirk BH-1 and Kirk plates
for almost two years and I could not possibly be happier. It's a
shame that the 630 is no longer available - the Velbons are now at
the same price point with the others.
I went through the same waste of money as so many others getting
here but now I have a combo that will last me for years.

Click to expand...

Group Idiot said:

Talk about a change in thinking. I always viewed tripods as just a
three-legged thing you stuck your camera on top of--nothing more.
Well, it's amazing what an education can do for you, so I thought
I'd share a snippet of my "journey" to [a little] tripod
understanding in hopes that the majority of those out there who are
just like me can avoid many of the mistakes.

If you're a new D100 owner, just as putting junk glass in front of
your new $2,000 camera will compromise your images, so will
slapping it on top of a cheap $200 tripod. And YES, I said $200 and
CHEAP in the same sentence!

Originally, that's about what I "budgeted" (in my mind) for a
"good" tripod. Well, let's just say that I couldn't be more wrong,
and why it will be a HUGE mistake to get something of that caliber
versus sacrificing, biting your lip, living with your "Velcro" or
whatever cheap Piece-O'-Junk you're using now for a few more months
while you save up for something that'll really work. A tripod will
be with you for YEARS, perhaps DECADES, while the D100 may last you
months or a couple of years at best before you feel the urge to
upgrade to whatever amazing technology the future holds.

Here's the genesis of my tripod selection process. I should state
that I'm a poor schmuck amateur like most D100 owners who is FAR
from a pro photog and doesn't make a dime from my shots. This is a
"fun" hobby for me and the wife.

After reading Thom Hogan's new, semi-comprehensive article on
camera support systems (tripods) here:

http://www.bythom.com/support.htm

I began to question my thinking about what constitutes a quality
tripod. I still was not convinced that the ROI (Return On Images)
would be reflected in a $1,000 tripod setup versus a $200 one. Thom
convinced me that I needed to go a little higher, so I moved into
the $500 neighborhood of thinking. Thom's BEST ADVICE in that
entire column was, surprisingly, to order the Really Right Stuff
printed catalog:

http://www.reallyrightstuff.com/business_info/free_catalog/index.html

It contains an veritable treasure trove of information that isn't
available on their site (yet). I just got it today (my address was
hand-written on the large envelope--I love that!) and opened it
immediately. I decided to take it with me on my ascent to the
Porcelain Throne and there absorbed its contents over the course of
more than an hour. Feeling enlighted, I dethroned, numb legs and
all, and felt that there was little choice but to ante up and do it
right. If I have to postpone a lens or accessory purchase for a few
months, so be it. $1,000 is the price of admission into The Club of
No Regrets--at least in this case. I've settled on the Gitzo G1325
CF legs ($500), the Gitzo G1321 leveling base ($160--a must,
absolutely), the Kirk BH1 panning ball head with Quick Release
($350), and QR plates for the 70-200/2.8 HSM, AF-S 300/4, and
D100/MB ($150)--for a grand total of about $1,200!

OUCH! That's a nice AF-S zoom! Are you INSANE?! Are you a PRO?!

Nope, but quality images aren't the exclusive domain of
professional photogs. There are so many reasons to pony up--as much
as it hurts--and follow this advice (I'm just a puppet here, this
is not MY "wisdom"). One poster has said that he'd rather have just
a FEW items of QUALITY over a bunch of cheap items--and this is the
one area that will get you more quality shots than just about
anything else. It allows you to move to any point in the blink of
an eye under the most demanding situations and eliminates mirror
slap and every other factor that will affect the quality of your
images. The tripod is just another extension in the mechanics of
the entire (d)SLR chain, and a cheap one will compromise the entire
package as the weakest link in that chain despite the fact that you
may have $5,000+ in the best camera and optics sitting atop.

I feel "enlightened" now, which is also "empowering" (I hate New
Age buzzwords, and this is the first time I've ever used it, but
it's true). I don't have that reluctance to spend the money any
more, now that I can see the future in this particular instance. I
guess I feel like I just "get it" and it's one of the VERY few
times in my life that I have learned from the experiences of others
without having to duplicate their mistakes the hard way.

I guess I'm just excited about the prospects. I may have to save
pennies for a month or two and live with my POS $100 fluid head
"video" tripod that I've had for 10 years, but as least I won't
make the mistake of getting what I can afford at the moment only to
dump it next year and spend the money again.

I know most here already know this, so I apologize for cluttering
up the forum by stating what, to many, may be the obvious, but I
feel it may be of benefit to many in my position who just don't
know what we don't know.

Brendan
--
Newbie requests inspection and critique of new photos at:
http://www.pbase.com/bgetchel/root

Click to expand...

Rich Gibson said:

Hey Group (or is it Idiot?)
I enjoyed your post and the thread. I never knew there was a site
for things so esoteric as mounting brackets.

Maybe I missed something so I wondered if you might have a ready
answer. I've decided on a monopod and have a manfrotto 3229 simple
head. If I understand reallyrightstuff.com an "L" bracket would
serve as a mounting plate which permits one to quickly move the
camera 90 degrees. Is this correct? If so, what one do you use
for a D-100.

Thanks, Rich

Click to expand...

Tom Maxwell said:

You may be correct. I called a couple of shops and was told it
would work but the more I read the more it looks like it may not.
I don't have the equipment yet but I will let you know when I do
get it and check it out. I may have to send back the tripod legs
and go with a 13 series. Thanks for the heads up.

Click to expand...

Group Idiot said:

I agree, in principle, with Jeremiah. I think good equipment can
not HURT you though.

Brendan

Click to expand...

James Riley said:

Try this.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bh4.sph/FrameWork.class?FNC=ProductActivator__Aproductlist_html___52783___STVFPHD___REG___CatID=3582___SID=F162267AD10

I don't have one, but maybe somebody would buy one and tell us how
it is.

Click to expand...