Was "open standard" by Olympus a mistake?

Everdog said:

Olympus is a fairly small player. Panasonic is the largest Japanese electronics maker.

Olympus could stop making cameras for 2 years

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That would be the end of Olympus as a system camera producer. Without model releases (i.e. sales), you would not be able to survive. Within two years, Canon and Nikon will have entered the mirrorless market, and Sony in the meanwhile woud share the leading position with Panasonic.

Olympus shoud have started with a two-fold body strategy (PEN plus a larger enthusiast model based on an E-620 llike design) and a quicker lens-line up with more primes and faster lenses with IS build in. That way, many Panasonic owners would have bought Olympus lenses for their bodies.

The reasons of the current state has nothing to do with Olympus' R&D capabilities (they have the optical competence already), but with the problem that they could not decide upon the future of 4/3, while Panasonic dropped 4/3 a while ago. The funny communication stragegy at Photokina shows this: releasing the E-5 and almost declaring 4/3 dead only a few days later, followed by other interviews declaring something in between. Total confusion.

Everdog said:

to save money or work on R&D and then come right back. They know Panasonic will continue to develop bodies and lenses, so the format will continue.

Basically it takes a lot of pressure off of them. They are going to need time to transition from 4/3rds to micro 4/3rds.

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Thomas

M43 hasn't been described as an 'open standard', and 4/3 wasn't really, in that you had to join the consortium (which wasnt open to just anyone) to get the electronic and optical specs. If there's a M43 consortium, they're keeping it very quiet. Any reference to 4/3 as an open standard was marketing hubris, not actual fact. You could well say the same of the Nikkor lens mount, as it has been used by Fuji and Kodak for bodies, and numerous lens makers.

Panasonic did produce two 4/3 bodies, and four lenses. L1, L10, PL14-50, PL14-50II, PL25 and PL14-150. They didn't do all that well, I suspect because they went for the high end and didn't have any entry level offerings. The L1 has a few devoted followers still, and the PL25 and 14-150 are both the class act of their focal length. My PL25 is one of my all time favorite pieces of glass.

Their early entry into M43 was likely by prior agreement with Olympus. The G1 was not really a hot seller, the GH1 with its 14-140 video lens appealed to video types as the first dslr that would actually shoot proper video, instead of the rubbery, flickery, smeared stuff coming out of the D90. As befits a company with extensive experience in video, the GH1 shot video under most any circumstance, not just limited conditions.

It was the micro bodies that set M43 on fire. First the EP1, which was leapfrogged by the GF1 with its faster focus and EVF, then the EP2 with its even better EVF and the EPL1 with a better kit lens and lower price. Expect a GF2 some time soon that leaps even further.

So it looks like Panny learned from their 4/3 missteps. They didn't go top drawer completely, and did much better this time.

And to the delight of many of us, brand fanboys in M43 look really silly. We can pick what works best from either of them. Aside from differences in IS, the gear is pretty much interchangeable, so who cares who makes it?

tgutgu said:

Everdog said:

Olympus is a fairly small player. Panasonic is the largest Japanese electronics maker.

Olympus could stop making cameras for 2 years

Click to expand...

That would be the end of Olympus as a system camera producer. Without model releases (i.e. sales), you would not be able to survive. Within two years, Canon and Nikon will have entered the mirrorless market, and Sony in the meanwhile woud share the leading position with Panasonic.

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Except that Panasonic and Olympus share the format. They could jump right back in with a range of cameras and have lost nothing...and actually gained because of all the new lenses others are making for the format.

btw, that was just an example. Olympus is not going to stop maiking cameras.

As I said before the benefit of m43 is Choice. If you buy in to Sony, Canon, Nikon or Pentax, you are stuck. Any with Sony it's even worse becuase they now have 2 formats (NEX and Alpha).

August 2010 ILC Sales in Japan
Rank Share
1 Canon EOS Kiss X4 (aka Rebel T2i or 550D) 18.5%
2 Nikon D90 14.2%
3 Sony NEX-5 9.7%
4 Nikon D5000 7.7%
5 Olympus PEN E-PL1 7.0%
6 Canon EOS Kiss X3 (aka Rebel T1i or 500D) 6.8%
7 Pentax K-x 4.4%
8 Sony NEX-3 4.3%
9 Nikon D3000 4.1%
10 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GF1 3.6%
Source: BCN Ranking data for the month of August 2010

http://www.dslrphoto.com/...-ranking-in-august-2010---3-sony-nex-5,19064.html

The EPL-1 is outselling all Pany cameras in Japan. It is inexpensive, has great image quality, and video is good enough for the average consumer. Although I'm sure Oly's mFT R&D costs are large, I'm sure that Pany's R&D costs have been much larger.

Although Panasonic clearly seems to have taken a big lead in mFTs in terms of variety of cameras and lenses, do we really know if this is paying off? GH1 sales were less than 1% of ILC market for the first 6 months of this year. GH2 appears to be a fantastic camera, but it remains to be seen how well it will compete against other cameras in its price range such as D7000.

I thnk someone (Kodak?) really needs to develop an extremely inexpensive entry level camera into the u 4/3 world. Mabye a NEx type body, no IBIS, zooming optical viewfinder with focus confirmation for less than $200.00

If Olympus was the only one making m43 cameras and lenses I wouldn't be here. Their product offerings so far are of no interest to me at all from a camera body perspective. They do have features I'd like, such as IBIS, but with nothing Gx/GHx like in their offerings I have no interest. I understand that might not be the larger target market though and it was probably sound for them to start with the EPs. Now that I'm in the system, if they came out with a SLR like m43 body I'd be a good candidate to buy one.

So for me - no Panasonic would just mean no m43 at all for me. With Panasonic around Oly at least has a chance at my business in the future. Again, what I'd do is just a tiny irrelevant drop in the well though.
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Ken W

Rebel XT, XTi, Pany G1, LX3, FZ28, Fuji F30, and a lot of 35mm and 4x5 sitting in the closet...

So you want to sell some larger sensor cameras, but you think you only have 2 choices:

1) Make a fixed lens camera ala G10 or LX5.

2) Make a interchangable lens mirrorless camera and spend all your money trying to develop a line of lenses for it so you can compete.

Well, you have a 3rd option. Join m43 and make a camera that already has a whole range of lenses already available.

PS I kind of stole this idea from tedolf. Sorry.

I don't know how much of the standard was the work of Olympus and how much was the work of Panasonic, but if Olympus had kept to itself, then I am pretty sure that Panasonic would have gone ahead as a competitor, quite possibly with a 4/3 size sensor. The product of both companies might have been inferior to what we have today, and I doubt that Olympus would have benefited from that.

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john carson

TrapperJohn said:

M43 hasn't been described as an 'open standard', and 4/3 wasn't really, in that you had to join the consortium (which wasnt open to just anyone) to get the electronic and optical specs. If there's a M43 consortium, they're keeping it very quiet. Any reference to 4/3 as an open standard was marketing hubris, not actual fact. You could well say the same of the Nikkor lens mount, as it has been used by Fuji and Kodak for bodies, and numerous lens makers.

Panasonic did produce two 4/3 bodies, and four lenses. L1, L10, PL14-50, PL14-50II, PL25 and PL14-150. They didn't do all that well, I suspect because they went for the high end and didn't have any entry level offerings. The L1 has a few devoted followers still, and the PL25 and 14-150 are both the class act of their focal length. My PL25 is one of my all time favorite pieces of glass.

Their early entry into M43 was likely by prior agreement with Olympus. The G1 was not really a hot seller,

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How do you know that? It may depend on the market, but if you see a mirrorless camera in Germany, then it is mostly a G-series from Panasonic.

TrapperJohn said:

the GH1 with its 14-140 video lens appealed to video types as the first dslr that would actually shoot proper video, instead of the rubbery, flickery, smeared stuff coming out of the D90. As befits a company with extensive experience in video, the GH1 shot video under most any circumstance, not just limited conditions.

It was the micro bodies that set M43 on fire.

Click to expand...

I would say it was the G1 and the excellent EVF, which could replace an OVF, which broke the ground for m4/3.

TrapperJohn said:

First the EP1, which was leapfrogged by the GF1 with its faster focus and EVF, then the EP2 with its even better EVF and the EPL1 with a better kit lens and lower price. Expect a GF2 some time soon that leaps even further.

So it looks like Panny learned from their 4/3 missteps. They didn't go top drawer completely, and did much better this time.

And to the delight of many of us, brand fanboys in M43 look really silly. We can pick what works best from either of them. Aside from differences in IS, the gear is pretty much interchangeable, so who cares who makes it?

Click to expand...

--
Thomas