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Is it really hard/expensive to make E630?

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Bobby J said:
to have a choice. They WANT you to have to buy M4:3 in order to have a small camera. They (Oly) are planning their future around M4:3 and EVF cameras.
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Because market demand is changing. It is not that they want you to have a mFT camera, it's that you (the market) want the mFT camera. The market is shifting to that direction. Mirrorless is already 40% of DSLR sales in Japan. I just received a copy of f5.6 magazine from Japan and most pictures are from and most articles are about mirrorless cameras. The DSLRs were a tiny percentage of mention (the Olympus E5 was one of them).

My guess is that the next "E6xx" will actually appear as an mFT camera akin to the Panasonic G2 and GH2.
 
I bought an E 420 because i wanted an OVF in a small and light package (I already had a NIKON SLR).

Very satisfied i wanted to upgrade. Olympus has nothing to sell for me...and PENS are not so small.

It's a pity that they give up a concept when it was beginning to be able to succeed.

The reported poor market shares of olympus in SLR may have an explanation in the abandonnement of OM series tens of years ego. CANON and NIKON didn't.

Many photographers buy a SLR because of the OVF, so PENS have no interest for them.

If i was Olympus Manager i would try to realy develop the real advantages of 4/3 (ability of OVF in a the smallest and lightest package) and insist on it instead of selling big SLR that can't compete because of sensor size.
 
I tried a G1 and i am NOT interested by the EVF.
 
I don't know. But OLY is hard working to introduce a Pen Pro 1quarter next year.

Dust and dripproof. I think with 2 hg lenses. Parallel they can made one without dust&dripproof. I think that will be the replacement of the 630 with in body EVF + mmf2 as a set.
 
I agree it can be a struggle. I like OVFs. Perhaps the technology that Fuji is using in the X100 can make its way to other brands.
 
The current sales trends and buying pattern studies show that the consumer who had been buying all those E6xx 2 lens kits are flocking to the new micro systems. Sales are down, way down. The board of directors are getting antsy, and the stockholders are getting impatient. As you're in a high management position, that's a high risk position. If you don't deliver, then you will 'leave for personal reasons'.

And, what do you know, that micro system you created last year is the darling of the consumers. You're saved. Sort of. Focus on the micro, the board says. Get out of that high end, it's not expanding or making money.

But, being a camera lover and a fine optics lover, you look at those beautiful high grade ZD lenses that you and the optical wizards created. Finest line of zooms available, the accomplishment of a lifetime. You poked mighty Canon and Nikon in the eye with them. You have to find a way to keep the HG and SHG ZD's alive, they're too good to become obsolete.

So you do what all smart executives do, you make a deal. After a tense board meeting and an impassioned plea to keep the ZD legend alive, finally boosted by the support of the chairman who also has passion for quality and fondness for the beautiful ZD's but only too well aware of the dire financial situation, they agree to your deal: If you get the MZD 9-18 and 14-150 perform to HG levels, you can make one new 4/3 body to keep the big ZD's viable. But only one, we don't have the resources to build more than one. They are needed to support the hot selling Pens that are keeping the camera division going.

And you pull it off. Your optical engineers get the tiny lenses to render as sharp as their big brothers. So you get to save the beautiful ZD's. It's a heart rendering choice, do you update the E620, or do you update the E3. One has to go. and it's only due to personal passion on the part of your crew that you can make even one. You look long and hard, and decide that the E3's huge OVF and weathersealing will serve the high end ZD glass better than the 620's plastic body and pentamirror.

Folks, someone or some group with tremendous passion at Olympus put their careers on the line just to the the E5 made, against all logical business sense. It's about $900 more than a revised E620 would have been. If you would really rather have cheap MP over fine ZD glass, then put your HG and SHG glass on the market, and we'll be happy to give it a good home. It will probably cost you more to move to an optically mediocre setup from someone else than to get an E5.
 
Amen!
sderdiarian said:
No, the Buick equivalent in the Oly line-up is the E-5, and it's alive and well until, like its automotive equivalent, its customer base dies off.

I drive a Miata, camera equivalent to the E-620. Both are small, light, handle great and have all the right features.

Add E-PL1 sensor/processor and video, all very simple upgrades right out of their parts bin, and this user base would buy plenty of them, many more than the ridiculously overpriced old before it was even introduced E-5. Those of us who cut our teeth on OM's never had any interest in the bloated beast that is the E-3/E-5.

Too easy, too logical for the chimps cuurently in charge of Oly to wrap their heads around. Please, please, Oly, cut your losses and sell the imaging division to a buyer with passion for photography and a brain.

--
Sailin' Steve
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maboleth said:
Oly nailed it with E620, finally got the ideal IQ-small factor-price value then abandoned the whole idea!

But, is it really hard to make E630? Put E5/PEN sensor & Truepic V CPU and some more tweaks in E620 body and here you go! I really doubt that E630 would steal potential PEN buyers... Those two cameras are using two different formats that just look similar. No one with m4/3 lenses would buy E6xx and vice versa.

It's ok to abandon E4xx and E5xx series, maybe even Exx, but E6xx has a big potential for everyone owning a 4/3 glass that are not wanting to pay premium for Ex.
I see E6xx used by both amateurs and pros, it's versatile and affordable.

Oly used to release cameras with just marginal improvements (like E400+ series or E510-520), but this one would be a true upgrade and I bet everyone with E620 would buy it, including new customers. Then many of the existing E620 owners would buy more quality glass... More $$$ from lens and to keep customers happy. The E630 would also reassure E5 users to feel that their investment in body & glass is more secure.

If we compare PEN and Exxx DSLRs as a riding mowers and a car - Oly is essentially suggesting car drivers to start driving mowers with an adapter that could take the whole family on a trip. Errr...hello? Oly WHERE is your logic in this game?
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If the E-620 had a good video implementation, I would have probably got one. If an E-630 had more features like this, I would probably get one to tide me over until more advanced m4/3 cameras became availble. I can't really justify an E-5 as I also have a Canon DSLR system and it would be more cost effective for me to get a 7D if I wanted this type of camera.

The E-620 has all the basic specifications to make an update fairly straight forward, and for it to not need any big investment in R&D. A higher resolution LCD, some improvements in image processing, and a reasonable video implementation would make a reasonably attractive camera. In fact I would have thought a more up to date E-620, would do at least as much, if not more, to keep the 4/3 lens range bouyant, than the E-5, which will have limited appeal.
 
Andrewteee said:
The global monthly sales numbers indicate that sales of DSLRs are decreasing and mirrorless are increasing (1001 Noisy Cameras sometimes release these numbers).
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It appears that mirrorless sales in Japan have plateaued.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1022&message=36416199

So the Sony NEX variants take 12% against the Micro 4/3 sales share of 10.6%. A combined EVIL share of 22.6% of the 80.3% total in the top ten -- or 28.1% of the top ten cameras by sales were EVIL.

Those are the August figures. They were up to 32.5% in June.
Andrewteee said:
And if you look at the top selling DSLRs on Amazon.com the top 20 are Nikon and Canon.
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None of which are mirrorless, BTW.
Andrewteee said:
Olympus sees this and sees the success of their mFT line and makes a decision about where to focus its energy.
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The problem they have is that other companies can enter the "micro" market -- Sony is making a convincing battle with the NEX -- and Panasonic is well-entrenched as number one in micro 4/3 and holds all of the important cards: if Olympus want a sensor, EVF, or LCD they buy what Pansonic wish to sell or must pay much more.

Essentially they are leaving (most of) the APS market to rot while they concentrate on another niche where they are already getting convincingly squeezed out.
Andrewteee said:
Now, what could be interesting is an E630-like mFT camera with an mFT mount - then you get the compact, lightweight camera FTs historically envisioned. Along the lines of the G2/GH2 but more robust.
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My interest drops away with the requirement to use under performing and over priced micro lenses.
Andrewteee said:
What prompted this thought was seeing the new Panasonic 100-300m lens on a GF1. It looks like an odd pairing, but that lens could work really well on a E630-like cameras.
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It would work better with a standard 4/3 mount, frankly.
Andrewteee said:
Since the E620 essentially has DSLR-like performance, more so than mFTs, it could be a better, more robust mFT camera.
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Olympus are likely to make a non-PEN design for larger lenses. This immediately makes me question why they would do so -- they already have plenty of standard 4/3 lenses so why not make the E-620 successor with an EVF?

A micro variant must compete with the G2, G10, and GH2.
Andrewteee said:
Though we'd all agree that the FT and mFT lens lines are not on par.
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No, far from it. The problem that comes up is that if you shrink the size and weight you have to compromise the optics. This works fine with the Panasonic 7-14 and Olympus 9-18 (or at least acceptably well) but makes production of significantly smaller non-wide angle "HG" equivalents fall somewhere between a bit difficult to impossible.
 
maboleth said:
Oly nailed it with E620, finally got the ideal IQ-small factor-price value then abandoned the whole idea!

But, is it really hard to make E630? Put E5/PEN sensor & Truepic V CPU and some more tweaks in E620 body and here you go! I really doubt that E630 would steal potential PEN buyers... Those two cameras are using two different formats that just look similar. No one with m4/3 lenses would buy E6xx and vice versa.
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No, not hard to make an E-630 the way you suggested. I seriously think Oly over produced the E-620 and E-30 and there is enough inventory for the next two years.

Oly is not capturing a large slice of the market pie when it comes to new 4/3 buyers. They are depending on existing users to upgrade. With new models coming out each year, not everyone upgraded.

The E-510 was a success by Oly's standards and they probably anticipated similar sales for the E-620 so they batch manufactured quantities to cover E-5XX as well as E-4XX owners to upgrade.

The E-30 arrived several months before the E-620 and some E-XXX users bought the E-30. That group would have no reason to buy the E-620 so there is a surplus. The economic situation likely had an impact on sales.

The E-30 was overpriced when it was launched. While it was not a bad camera, the price was too high for many E-XXX users to upgrade to. So we also have a surplus stock of E-30s.

By stating that there is no E-620 or E-30 replacement in the works, Oly is hoping that the E-620 and E-30 inventory would move without a fire sale.

Somehow, I think that strategy backfired.

Trevor
 
I think you are spot on here. I will probably buy an E5 in a few years (after I have fully appreciated how good the e30 is!).
 
Yes, precisely my interpretation.

But look it also this way: having decided to stop at 12 Mpx, as Watanabe suggested, their only chance to sell that class of sensor is to with a smaller camera size, therefore Micro. It is also clearly stated in the official 4/3 page:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1022&message=36440422

As I argue there the 620 already had noise problems at base ISO. It could never compete with today's 16-18 Mpx cameras.

Therefore the move was to literally downsize the camera and make it more mobile, while improving the noise engine: Truepic V. Therefore the PL1 is the true heir to the 620.

620 and E-30 stocks will probably last for 2011, when the semipro Micro will be introduced presumably solving the performance issues left. But the better IQ is already there.

A 630 with 12 Mpx wouldn't have a chance to compete today. The E-5 is strictly a substitution camera for the E-3 for captive SHG glass owners, who would spend a lot more to change systems.

Therefore your scenario is quite likely. Given the downturn it was a very tough decision. By the way with plant closures - Oly did - and contracts severed, it is probably impossible to rebuild a 6x0: the parts are simply not there anymore.

Of course I don't have anything against the 620: I own one and I am perfectly happy to use it.

Am.
--
Photostream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/amalric
 
I found this scenario pretty interesting, and mirrors some of my own experience in product management. Yes, tough choices and rationalizing resources...threading the needle staying viable, if not successful & doing the right thing...tough when it's your dollars & your career on the line.
amalric said:
Therefore your scenario is quite likely. Given the downturn it was a very tough decision. By the way with plant closures - Oly did - and contracts severed, it is probably impossible to rebuild a 6x0: the parts are simply not there anymore.
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Amalric...do you recall where you heard about Oly's plant closures?

--
'I have no responsibilities here whatsoever'
 
RoyGBiv said:
I found this scenario pretty interesting, and mirrors some of my own experience in product management. Yes, tough choices and rationalizing resources...threading the needle staying viable, if not successful & doing the right thing...tough when it's your dollars & your career on the line.
amalric said:
Therefore your scenario is quite likely. Given the downturn it was a very tough decision. By the way with plant closures - Oly did - and contracts severed, it is probably impossible to rebuild a 6x0: the parts are simply not there anymore.
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Amalric...do you recall where you heard about Oly's plant closures?
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I think it was some Japanese trade magazine or perhaps Bloomberg, mentioning it at the end 2009. It was either relayed here or on some other forum, sorry.

Oly didn't close only marketing units in the US- this I am sure was relayed here, but also at least one plant in China, which might have had distrous consequences for their camera lineup. See if you can trace any of that in Olympus yearly Statements.

I guess that HG and SHG lenses are still made in Japan, so that might explain why they are still made and sold.

In this year's Statement there is half a page mentioning rebuilding production and marketing capacity in China and India. I take those are for the Micro product lines, probably with different outsourcers.

Finally I am amazed at the lack of understanding with many here: I think that in 2009 the whole camera division was at risk of disappearing, and the drop in sales -28% (43rumors) has persistend even in 1Q 2010.

In this perspective Micro is really the last ditch, last resort move. A masterpiece in lateral thinking that saved the Camera Division, at least for a time.

Few are able to transform a defeat in a victory. Even with persistent losses of revenue Oly (&P) were able to eat up consistent market share slices from C&N.

Am.
--
Photostream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/amalric
 
SteB said:
If the E-620 had a good video implementation, I would have probably got one.
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This. I would not buy a new body without good video capabilities. It is 2010, not 2005. No reason to compromise when shooting video.
 
I will wait....
 
That was my 1st SLR and I still use it today but travel is my interest as I'm nearing retirement and I want a video capable camera in the size of the E-620 to use with the Oly lens. (My son will get my trusty 'old' E-300).

I'm just not interested in m43.

--

'Landscape photography is the supreme test of the photographer - and often the supreme disappointment. '
  • Ansel Adams
 
boggis the cat said:
boggis the cat said:
And if you look at the top selling DSLRs on Amazon.com the top 20 are Nikon and Canon.
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None of which are mirrorless, BTW.
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That DSLR list did not include mirrorless. My point was that Nikon and Canon dominate this category by a large margin.
boggis the cat said:
boggis the cat said:
Though we'd all agree that the FT and mFT lens lines are not on par.
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No, far from it. The problem that comes up is that if you shrink the size and weight you have to compromise the optics. This works fine with the Panasonic 7-14 and Olympus 9-18 (or at least acceptably well) but makes production of significantly smaller non-wide angle "HG" equivalents fall somewhere between a bit difficult to impossible.
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This does indeed worry me, that we won't see HG (forget SHG) mFT lenses due to the engineering involved or the cost (although my new 14-150mm mFT lens is pretty good so far). My dream would be the 12-60mm in mFT mount, but I'm not holding my breath. The mFT HG lenses may have to be primes (which is fine with me).
 
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