Extremists constructed cx cameras

mmistrz

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I've used cx1.2.3, and have some experience to write about.

It seems that two teams of opposite extremists took part in constructing those cameras.

One extreme team demanded and delivered an outstanding features and overall camera.
The other extreme team have done all that is wrong or bad or unsatisfactory.

Now I simply spill and you categorize to which group this belong.

The battery management never was done properly and only in cx3 is just acceptable when the dying batteries still manage the lens to hide and close. The price is unjustifiably high as number of other users point on forum.

Camera is far from perfect yet it is very loveable. You simply like to use it as it is easy to use and produce predictable and consistent results.

Lately my cx3 returned from repair for the 2nd time, 2-3 weeks each time and warranty is not extended. It is unfair and kind of cheating. First time the lens did not retracted smoothly and this time the selector dial was replaced because my thumb did rub the paint and functions no longer were readable. You could not set a function. Here the extremists were at it's best. On the camera all over the place there are embossed numbers and signs except on the dial so when you rub off the poor paint you have no clue what position is currently on.

Well friend's cx2 which I use is hardly used but I noticed it has battery issue. Number of times wanted to make a shot and it did not worked. I even glued thin pieces of plastic at the bottom thinking that they are shorter than original one and make no contact on the other end. It worked for some time but lately all batteries stopped working. Lately I've discovered that when I insert a piece of paper folded 4 times over all batteries work with that.

N ow I think that the actual reason of Ricoh switching the battery from db70 to db100 with release of cx3 is not just an increase of it's capacity marginally but also the shape which allow a better and more reliable contact.

I've tried to contact the Ricoh but they are non cooperative, they ignore customers. Among number of improvements I suggested is the charger which should be universal that is 240V and 12V in car. They ignore all. So I had to modify the charger myself so it works now in car and at home.

I am sure than others will find many more examples to add to the two groups of extremists.

Now let me say how good concept it is and my surprise why other camera makers do not uptake those ideas. Let me lists positive features I value. Multitarget focusing, exceptionally good macros, excellent lcd monitor, good battery life but not management, small and extremely easy to use, excellent photos in bright light.

Being quite upset on Ricoh management I am stuck with cx series simply because I like the positives and there is no other choice by any other brand.

Now some criticize cx4 for just cosmetic improvements. I would classify the body shape as such but not the image stabilisation. Having no experience with it, I canot say much. As I already sent post doubting sense of multiple night shots. I do not believe it is technically possible to reduce low light shots noise without introducing a new more sensitive sensor.

There is one feature half baked. It is time lapse photography. You can set the time intervals and camera will do shooting at those intervals. The limit of 1h and increments of 5s make it almost useless. Guess which extremists did it? When you want to make shots of the opening flower over 24 hours every 20 min, you have to buy another camera because cx gives you limit of just 1hour. I cannot see any technical reason of such limit. You can be also upset when you want to make a shots of the sea waves or dancing steps so shot every second ( could be limited to say 100 pictures) would be handy. Not with cx cameras, the 5s is smallest step. In my opinion this feature is useless and we pay for it but cannot use it.
 
The limit of 1h and increments of 5s make it almost useless. Guess which extremists did it? When you want to make shots of the opening flower over 24 hours every 20 min, you have to buy another camera because cx gives you limit of just 1hour. I cannot see any technical reason of such limit.
There ain't. But you misunderstood the setting. the "1h" is the time between shots, NOT the overall time. Haven't tried, but i think the longest intervall will be 1h59min55sec. Should suffice for most needs, although i don't see, why Ricoh limits the hour dial...
You can be also upset when you want to make a shots of the sea waves or dancing steps so shot every second ( could be limited to say 100 pictures) would be handy. Not with cx cameras, the 5s is smallest step.
Yes - but for less than 5sec you could switch to top dial to multi shot... Again, i don't see, why they didn't allow faster fire times than 5sec, but all in all, i wouldn't call it useless ;-)

Karl @CX1
 
The limit of 1h and increments of 5s make it almost useless. Guess which extremists did it? When you want to make shots of the opening flower over 24 hours every 20 min, you have to buy another camera because cx gives you limit of just 1hour. I cannot see any technical reason of such limit.
There ain't. But you misunderstood the setting. the "1h" is the time between shots, NOT the overall time. Haven't tried, but i think the longest intervall will be 1h59min55sec. Should suffice for most needs, although i don't see, why Ricoh limits the hour dial...
I'm afraid, there is a perfectly reasonable (but definitely not nice) reason of this limitation. Even if you turn the LCD OFF, CX3 battery will last only about 4 hours in the interval mode. There is unfortunately no power management mechanism that would shut the camera OFF (like in case of recent Samsungs) between the long intervals or at last make it to sleep while keeping the timer running.

So, if you set the interval to 1h59min55, the camera will at best take 3 photos. First, if you press the shutter (initialization of timer), second, after 1h59min55 and then after next 1h59min55 (with LCD OFF and if your battery is OK) third photo. And then the camera will shut off.
You can be also upset when you want to make a shots of the sea waves or dancing steps so shot every second ( could be limited to say 100 pictures) would be handy. Not with cx cameras, the 5s is smallest step.
Yes - but for less than 5sec you could switch to top dial to multi shot... Again, i don't see, why they didn't allow faster fire times than 5sec, but all in all, i wouldn't call it useless ;-)
The official reason is that not all SD cards are the same fast and the camera may not successfully record all frames in case of too short interval. It's definitely not a problem with current generation of cards and it can be proved with continuous mode. And there can always be implemented a protection mechanism that would check the card speed before allowing 2secs interval. Unfortunately, Ricoh is a bit conservative in this matter (the same as they were with higher than +/-0.5EV bracketing, which is, in fact, still not available in CX cameras).

The only thing we can do is to bomb Ricoh (politely but firmly) with feature requests for future models. And maybe one day?... ;) But we can forget about FW update in this area. No way in case of CX range.

--
Ricoh Film & Digital Forum
http://www.ricohforum.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/7597032@N05/
 
I did a time lapse last week, 3hrs 57 min, one shot every 20 seconds.

If I installed a remote power source, is there a time lapse limit?
wj
--
nikonricohandfuji
 
Pavel,
With external power source, you can make the time lapse running as long as you want. But there is still limit for maximum delay between the shots 1:59:55.
Well, anyone tried the external source plugged in, maybe the firmware then allows the h dial to go further?

OTOH, with my 4GB card i get about 1100 shots at full resolution, that limit means about 3 months of shots - should suffice for almost any need. If one doesn't want the intermediate shots, it's a simple delete from the set...

Karl
 
Thanks for technical explanation. It explains the inability to use this feature to my wish that is at least 24 h. However I regard it still as unfulfilled promise. I agree that we have to ask manufacturers to deliver.

Trying to avoid arguments for the sake of arguments, I can agree that at least the time lapse photography in cx cameras is a bit premature feature. When power management (I pointed that it is very poor management) does not allow this feature to be fully implemented. It is reasonable to expect that time laps photography can be set for a week. Ok, in compact camera let it be 24h.

It's great camera without time laps photos.

Strangely we talked only about one problem of cx and neglected whole issue that is the extremes of the cx series cameras.
 
I've tried to contact the Ricoh but they are non cooperative, they ignore customers

I tried this too, any professional organisation has a help desk you should think, or at least an automated noreply mail adres, not Ricoh.

Is the ex-Japan market really soo small that they simply ignore a non Japanese mail?

My CX3 was in for replacement of the optical unit, even now the new optical unit terrifies me when i power the camera on,

have a love hate relationship with it now; simply no other pxs camera comes near to the ease of use, lots of fantastic features, great color, IQ is disputable but amongst all other pxs i say it fairly good.

Maybe, if we all start sending similar mails to Ricoh-san, someone on that Island might start asking himself what the ...is going on, but for now, i m still pleased with those great features in such a small camera, my only next step will be an apsc format/fast lens, as i miss my belouvered bokeh in all small sensors.
 
Out of 3 I owned/used, surely the cx3 is real best. Possibly cx4 is better still and I buy one feature in particular the improved image stabilisation. This is real and welcome improvement.

Well in my few early description of those cameras I mentioned that it blurs significantly at full zoom. The picture is very noticeable less sharp and clear than others like my fujifilm s100fs. Nevertheless as some say, it is a camera so easy and pleasant to use despite those significant problems.

About all Ricoh's are expensive and it will eventually work against them.

I fully support the idea of complaining, sharing problems among ourselves and friends. it will be noticed by Ricoh and competitors who watch what photographers want and what hate.

I am quite shocked by our colleges who dispute if we do really need the universal charger for home mains and for car charging. Common sense dictate that if you or you hardly ever use the camera away from home nor make more photos than a one or two batteries allow, do not criticize many others who do use away quite extensively. It is especially when such modification could be implemented for about a $1 when made in factory. Why people like me have to modify in the kitchen? It is expensive enough and it is actually irrational not to make it. It actually applies to about all camera manufacturers. It is not high tech, it is low tech if you know how. No specialized tools other than soldering irion and a few other bits and pieces. I do not show how I've done because nobody asked me.

Regarding the function selector dial on top of camera, I've managed to rub off the paint. Friend of mine suggested to cut out same dia translucent sticky tape and stick on top. I have done it but Ricoh should be ashamed of this. It is also low tech solution.

I am not loyal to Ricoh but to a good product, product that satisfy me. As soon as competition will match and better Ricoh, I switch to them if I want another camera and I suggest others do similar. I hope this will give a good lesson not jut to Ricoh but also to competitors.
 
I am quite shocked by our colleges who dispute if we do really need the universal charger for home mains and for car charging. Common sense dictate that if you or you hardly ever use the camera away from home nor make more photos than a one or two batteries allow, do not criticize many others who do use away quite extensively. It is especially when such modification could be implemented for about a $1 when made in factory. Why people like me have to modify in the kitchen? It is expensive enough and it is actually irrational not to make it. It actually applies to about all camera manufacturers. It is not high tech, it is low tech if you know how. No specialized tools other than soldering irion and a few other bits and pieces. I do not show how I've done because nobody asked me.
PLease show and explain your modifications, I am interested.
 
Sorry folks, everytime I try to use dpr gallery, I will complain that no wise person devise it and I bet they are unable to make any more complex and difficult gallery system. It worked even for me, and everytime I have to learn a latin language of vulgar variety.

This time upon trying, I gave up and used google webalbum. Shame to dpr.

http://picasaweb.google.com/niezmienny/ModifyingCharger?authkey=Gv1sRgCPXO39Cmy4bqTA#

The photos are sufficient to see everything needed to modify the original charger.

Disclaimer!

I suggest unless you have licences and permisions you are not allowed to modify any electrical products because they can kill, injure or cause fire. And improving the design fault is punished by a loss of guarantee!

I do not suggest you actually do modify. I simply show how I did it and point that if it was possible to do it sucessfully by me, the manufacturers can do it easier, cheaper and nicer or more professional way.

First thing I located the main electrolytic capacitor and connected laboratory power supply to it and checked if it charges a battery. It did.

Then I purchased an mini usb socket at $1.20 (factory pays for them a single cents) and found out which connection is a positive and which is negative on the socket. The internet search was far from clear than I figured it out that when I connect a usb cable to pc and the small mini plug, insert to a new mini socket the power supply appear on the socket leads. I simply measured with voltmeter which one is negative and which one is positive, marked and soldered gently wires, a red to plus and black to negative. The other ends of wires I soldered to the pcb as shown and it worked. Kind of working. Sure I had to deal with voltages. The voltage on capacitor must be less than 5V (quite sensitive) and car has over 12V. At considerable charging current, the conventional passive voltage regulator would produce far too much heat to be practical. I bought a $13 gizmo that is 12V to usb converter in cheap shop. It worked but charged battery only half way and charger switched off. I found that it is due to very specific requirements (too technical to describe) of the original Ricoh charger it is so. Then I bought in Kmart another charger that is 12V to usb converter for Motorola phones at !40 and bingo, all seems to work well and battery get fully charged.

I've done similar modification to Fujifilm charger as well.

The only reason why the manufacturers do it, it is to save a dollar on charger cost and they know that sheep that is customers will never demand what should be provided as a standard. Shame to them.

The manufacturer could do it two ways. One way the most sensible to incorporate the 12V to own voltage on board, so the only thing would be extra is a cable with mini usb plug on one side and car power plug on the other side.

The other solution would be similar to mine, a separate converter with mini usb converter and charger would have built in mini usb socket.

To those who criticized me for demanding the obvious feature.

I can understand that we do not think about something. I did not think about this feature until I found myself in the situation where I drove to a park to make a single shot of lotus. I came on last day of this flower blooming. My camera battery died just then. I had a choice of going home, charging a battery and coming back to do just one shot. If the charger had a 12V charging capability, it would be no problem at all.

Well if you have any imagination at all, there are and will be situations when you and many other photographers will be away from mains power. Usually we are near the car.

In any way even if you will never in your life use this, do not criticize others for demanding it. It is extremely cheap to add, it does not compromise anything for those who do not use, there is no point of refusing it, but plenty of advantages of having it.

It is hard to believe but some time ago I tried on this forum to raise this issue and number of people criticized me and advised instead to solve this by buying a diesel generator and carrying it in a car. It lacks a basic common sense.

Thanks for interest.
 
That easy indeed, happen to work for an electroncis design centre, can't understand why this is not included...

Dont know exactly what this is with chargers, i rebuild cheap dollar usb chargers for an ipod, costing no money at all, Apple included a fancy trick to avoid using any cheap charger by checking databuss communication first, makes you buy a 40 dollar apple charger...

By the way, the camera should charge directly via usb in on the camera without plugging the battery out... probably another dollar to spent...
 
The idea with charging battery in camera via usb socket in theory is brilliant but...
Does cx cameras have inbuilt adequate voltage regulator to accommodate that?

I'm afraid that it has not. Until it is checked, we do not know. Have in mind that there is a range of converters and voltages. Stop, number of readers may not know what we talking about.

It was proposition to use an ad on 12V car charger with usb plug which when inserted into cx usb socket suppose to charge it's battery.

If this would be possible, the manual should say so and life would be much easier. No need to carry charger with you. You could have in car a 12V only charger and plug to camera and use it.

I've just plugged in and my discharged battery was still not charged. Well I tried only for a few minutes.

However judging ricoh by their very miserable power management, I do not expect that they are smart enough to add an extra circuitry enabling to charge via usb socket. Tomorrow I may try in car to plug in and see after an hour or two if it will be charged at all.

Unless there is a reason not to, it can be done with the use of one simple component but then you would have to open the camera and void guarantee. It is much more involved than modification of the charger as I shown. This one component cost fraction of a cent and can do a good job as suggested. Thanks for such elegant suggestion.

Hopefully in near future many camera companies will implement this simple solution and so much useful. Perhaps gadget makers will allow most products to be charged via usb car converter.

Well I have to serve justice and say that ricoh have very pleasantly surprised me with it's usb socket functionality. Comparing to fujifilm, cx when connected to pc start to communicate and download pictures. No need to do anything. With fuji, you have to turn on camera and later turn off. In ricoh it does on its own. Very logically and well. But according to the theme of the post, this was an extremely good and positive team but power management was the extremely negative and bad team.
 
usb is always voltage regulated to 5V,
current can be unregulated,

therefor apple uses the trick of checking datacommunication; if an intelligent usb charger replies back, than the apple device automatically assumes the device delivers no more than 500mA(which is the spec for USB), hence the apple device allows the charger to charge at full possible current.

Problem is if you connect a 2000mA charger to this modified apple device, than you could charge the battery to quick.

But, an apple ipod uses the trick, can't see why a ricoh cant do it, my Garmin GPs does it for years. This circuitry is by the way basic application technology, tested and approved a thousand times over, there must be another reason, other than technical not to implement it.
 
I do not want the post become too boring and side tracked. Perhaps most folks are lost in technicality already.

I've checked and cx cannot charge from usb socket. I believe it is due to fact as I mentioned that when plug in a usb cable it assumes you want to download photos and camera gets ready for that. If possibly at all to add an intelligent circuitry to sense that you plugged just a charger, it would be I guess a very complex circuitry.

So let's assume, it cannot be done easily.

Well I do not think it is very correct what you wrote about charging. USB are regulated to 5V but it does mean any voltage from 4 to 6V. If you do not believe me, check all the gizmos in cheap shops with usb capability.

A simple charger current capacity is not what one delivers but what one is capable to deliver is battery take it. The lithium batteries are much more complex to charge than any other earlier battery.

Summing the topic, the cx cameras is a mixture of best and worst.

Imagine you want to buy a Ferrari with door and window mechanisms on the level of Beatle, the engine is from Mercedes, steering from Hyundai, pioneer stereo, engine control from Russian Volga, seats from Suzuki, tyres best brand Kmart special, and so on.

Well if you get a high class car with high class price tag, you expect everything on that high class level.

But if you mix the Ferrari with VW Beetle, than overall level and prestige and experience suffer.
 

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