Fill Flash and Metering

I almost always use spot metering or at least center weighted metering on the subject's face when shooting outdoor candids so that my subject's face would be correctly exposed.

My question is in a typical backlit situation where the subject's face is directly blocking the sun and if I want to fill flash the face, should I still use spot metering or perhaps evaluative metering would be better in this case? Thanks.

If I do it professionally, I use a hand held light / flash meter, because then I always know exactly what is going on and how I did it.

--
Jeff

Persuasive Marketing Systems -
inc Copy Writing, Design & Photography

Key thing is to make sure that the subject's face is filling the whole frame when metering, that way the camera doesn't get fooled by the back lighting.

My technique might not suit everyone, but when I know I'm getting bright sky in the background I don't want it blown out, so I spot meter for the sky and adjust my flash-to-subject distance and flash output to compensate. If necessary I backlight the immediate environment where I might want the added things in the picture.

I use Nikon CLS sometimes, and full manual with Cactus Triggers other times. Depends on available time (if I'm in a rush). Weddings = CLS; models and portraiture = manual & triggers. It's all in how much shoot, check, and adjust time I have.

Sometimes I'll shoot the environment without the subject in it to evaluate the bast shutter speed to get a nice sky and background. Once I have that where I want it I put the subject in and shoot them without flash to see how much fill I need, then use y flash in manual and adjust up from low power until I get the desired look.

I meter for the background because I may want it on, under, or over

then bring in the flash. most often in ettl at 0 for test shot then go over or under on the flash compensation to balance the light needed on the person
Flash was off camera to my right straight on to subject
he was in total shade and the flash was at ettl -1/2

With my Canon, I'd use the pop up flash (Xsi) or my Metz flash on my 5D mk2 with the camera on Av. With Canon Av automatically goes to fill flash, then I'd pop a photo and use flash comp to reduce or raise flash if the photo wasn't to my liking. I use evaluative metering and check the LCD for results.

--
An excellent lens lasts a lifetime, an excellent DSLR, not so long.

darklord said:

I almost always use spot metering or at least center weighted metering on the subject's face when shooting outdoor candids so that my subject's face would be correctly exposed.

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Correct exposure from metering off people's faces...?? Hmmmm.... they must be very tanned?

To me, that doesn't follow. Since 18% grey is the tone one would expect to get correct spot-metering from, and caucasian faces are about double that brightness... [36%].. the direct result from which one would expect to get about 1-stop's worth of UNDER-exposure.

There would still be an under-exposure error with centre-weighted metering, but a smaller one, say a half stop.

darklord said:

My question is in a typical backlit situation where the subject's face is directly blocking the sun and if I want to fill flash the face, should I still use spot metering or perhaps evaluative metering would be better in this case? Thanks.

Click to expand...

Well, I WOULDN'T meter off the face with any metering pattern.. The face is in shadow, and the shadow is NOT going to be there, or at least not so strong, when the flash fires.

Instead, meter those parts of the subject in the sunshine (18% tone), not the shadow, and leave the flash exposure to the TTL control of the camera. Alternatively, set the fill-flash level manually at about 50% of correct level for flash as sole light source.
--
Regards,
Baz

"Ahh... But the thing is, they were not just ORDINARY time travellers!"

I meter the exposure for the sky, sometimes underexposing the sky for effect.

Then I meter the flash for the subject to get a "subjectively" proper exposure in the composition.

It may take a few frames to get it balanced and working well.

Sometimes, you can meter the background w/ the shutter, and the subject with the aperture.

Sometimes you can meter the background with the shutter, and the subject with the flash power.

A couple recent examples... LX5, with the on camera flash.

Barrie Davis said:

Correct exposure from metering off people's faces...?? Hmmmm.... they must be very tanned?

To me, that doesn't follow. Since 18% grey is the tone one would expect to get correct spot-metering from, and caucasian faces are about double that brightness... [36%].. the direct result from which one would expect to get about 1-stop's worth of UNDER-exposure.

There would still be an under-exposure error with centre-weighted metering, > but a smaller one, say a half stop.

Click to expand...

For candids, I spot meter off the subject's face, then apply + EV for light skin tone and - EV for dark skin tone subjects, set AE lock and got good results from this method.

Barrie Davis said:

Well, I WOULDN'T meter off the face with any metering pattern.. The face is in shadow, and the shadow is NOT going to be there, or at least not so strong, when the flash fires.

Instead, meter those parts of the subject in the sunshine (18% tone), not the > shadow, and leave the flash exposure to the TTL control of the camera. > Alternatively, set the fill-flash level manually at about 50% of correct level for flash > as sole light source.

Click to expand...

Thanks, I see what you meant here, I'll try it out and see how it works. The other way I think is to set to evaluative metering, set AF point on the subjects face so that the metering will bias to the AF point (subject face) and let TTL do it's trick.

This might not give the best result but in situations when one doesn't have time to setup shop, I hope this method be good compromise.

darklord said:

Barrie Davis said:

Correct exposure from metering off people's faces...?? Hmmmm.... they must be very tanned?

To me, that doesn't follow. Since 18% grey is the tone one would expect to get correct spot-metering from, and caucasian faces are about double that brightness... [36%].. the direct result from which one would expect to get about 1-stop's worth of UNDER-exposure.

There would still be an under-exposure error with centre-weighted metering, > but a smaller one, say a half stop.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

darklord said:

For candids, I spot meter off the subject's face, then apply + EV for light skin tone and - EV for dark skin tone subjects, set AE lock and got good results from this method.

Click to expand...

Okay, compensating for unsuitable base tones is fair enough.

I suppose I have got very thoroughly into the habit of recognising an overall 18% tone within the frame as a whole, and locking off when I have found it. [50 years of pro shooting will do that to you. ]

darklord said:

darklord said:

Well, I WOULDN'T meter off the face with any metering pattern.. The face is in shadow, and the shadow is NOT going to be there, or at least not so strong, when the flash fires.

Instead, meter those parts of the subject in the sunshine (18% tone), not the > shadow, and leave the flash exposure to the TTL control of the camera. > Alternatively, set the fill-flash level manually at about 50% of correct level for flash > as sole light source.

Click to expand...

Thanks, I see what you meant here, I'll try it out and see how it works.

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Yeah... Generally speaking there is not a lot of point in ambient metering of a tone that the flash is gonna hit as soon as you release the shutter.

darklord said:

The other way I think is to set to evaluative metering, set AF point on the subjects face so that the metering will bias to the AF point (subject face) and let TTL do it's trick.

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Trouble is, there is nothing specifically suitable about the tone of a subject's face, just BECAUSE it is the subject's face. Indeed, didn't we just agree that compensation was required, (see above)... [??]

What I'm suggesting is metering from an ostensibly 18% tone in the sunny background OUTSIDE of the shadow area, to ensure that that, at least, is correct...

... and then phiddle-phart the flash levels up and down until you have a proportion of flash to "correct" that suits the mood you have in mind for the picture. Do it by trial and error, or trust the TTL, the choice is yours...

..... (myself, I tend to manual, but then, I would, wouldn't I? ;-) )

Anyway.... See what I mean?
--
Regards,
Baz

"Ahh... But the thing is, they were not just ORDINARY time travellers!"

Barrie Davis said:

... and then phiddle-phart the flash levels up and down until you have a proportion of flash to "correct" that suits the mood you have in mind for the picture. Do it by trial and error, or trust the TTL, the choice is yours...

Click to expand...

Can I get phiddle-pharts from Adorama or Calumet ?? They sound quite cool.

--
Ian.

Samples of work: http://www.AccoladePhotography.co.uk
Weddings: http://www.AccoladeWeddings.com
Events: http://www.OfficialPhotographer.com

Theres only one sun. Why do I need more than one light to get a natural result?

UKphotographers said:

Barrie Davis said:

... and then phiddle-phart the flash levels up and down until you have a proportion of flash to "correct" that suits the mood you have in mind for the picture. Do it by trial and error, or trust the TTL, the choice is yours...

Click to expand...

Can I get phiddle-pharts from Adorama or Calumet ?? They sound quite cool.

Click to expand...

Bulk packs are on 'special' right now, Ian.. ;-)

You may remember Pelling and Cross, but I doubt you remember Brunnings?
--
Regards,
Baz

"Ahh... But the thing is, they were not just ORDINARY time travellers!"

Barrie Davis said:

UKphotographers said:

Barrie Davis wrote:

Click to expand...

You may remember Pelling and Cross, but I doubt you remember Brunnings?

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I remember Brunnings are an Advertising Agency ...need phiddle pharts... bulk offer discounts... get some stock..!!

--
Ian.

Samples of work: http://www.AccoladePhotography.co.uk
Weddings: http://www.AccoladeWeddings.com
Events: http://www.OfficialPhotographer.com

Theres only one sun. Why do I need more than one light to get a natural result?

UKphotographers said:

Barrie Davis said:

UKphotographers said:

Barrie Davis wrote:

Click to expand...

You may remember Pelling and Cross, but I doubt you remember Brunnings?

Click to expand...

I remember Brunnings are an Advertising Agency ...need phiddle pharts... bulk offer discounts... get some stock..!!

Click to expand...

Wrong Brunnings...

I was referring to the pro camera shop that was across from Holborn tube station for many decades. It's gone now. Google Street View currently shows the whole block being redeveloped... hoardings are all around.
--
Regards,
Baz

"Ahh... But the thing is, they were not just ORDINARY time travellers!"

Barrie Davis said:

I was referring to the pro camera shop that was across from Holborn tube station for many decades. It's gone now. Google Street View currently shows the whole block being redeveloped... hoardings are all around.

Click to expand...

OK, I see now.. Phiddle Pharts are more likely to have been obtained from Brunnings (behind the hoardings) across the road from Diagon Alley (or Holborn tube) .. just like in Harry Potter . I knew there was some magic involved with this somehow.
--
Ian.

Samples of work: http://www.AccoladePhotography.co.uk
Weddings: http://www.AccoladeWeddings.com
Events: http://www.OfficialPhotographer.com

Theres only one sun. Why do I need more than one light to get a natural result?