Thom, RRS, and Tripods

Group Idiot

Veteran Member
Messages
3,874
Reaction score
0
Location
Waterbury, CT, US
Talk about a change in thinking. I always viewed tripods as just a three-legged thing you stuck your camera on top of--nothing more. Well, it's amazing what an education can do for you, so I thought I'd share a snippet of my "journey" to [a little] tripod understanding in hopes that the majority of those out there who are just like me can avoid many of the mistakes.

If you're a new D100 owner, just as putting junk glass in front of your new $2,000 camera will compromise your images, so will slapping it on top of a cheap $200 tripod. And YES, I said $200 and CHEAP in the same sentence!

Originally, that's about what I "budgeted" (in my mind) for a "good" tripod. Well, let's just say that I couldn't be more wrong, and why it will be a HUGE mistake to get something of that caliber versus sacrificing, biting your lip, living with your "Velcro" or whatever cheap Piece-O'-Junk you're using now for a few more months while you save up for something that'll really work. A tripod will be with you for YEARS, perhaps DECADES, while the D100 may last you months or a couple of years at best before you feel the urge to upgrade to whatever amazing technology the future holds.

Here's the genesis of my tripod selection process. I should state that I'm a poor schmuck amateur like most D100 owners who is FAR from a pro photog and doesn't make a dime from my shots. This is a "fun" hobby for me and the wife.

After reading Thom Hogan's new, semi-comprehensive article on camera support systems (tripods) here:

http://www.bythom.com/support.htm

I began to question my thinking about what constitutes a quality tripod. I still was not convinced that the ROI (Return On Images) would be reflected in a $1,000 tripod setup versus a $200 one. Thom convinced me that I needed to go a little higher, so I moved into the $500 neighborhood of thinking. Thom's BEST ADVICE in that entire column was, surprisingly, to order the Really Right Stuff printed catalog:

http://www.reallyrightstuff.com/business_info/free_catalog/index.html

It contains an veritable treasure trove of information that isn't available on their site (yet). I just got it today (my address was hand-written on the large envelope--I love that!) and opened it immediately. I decided to take it with me on my ascent to the Porcelain Throne and there absorbed its contents over the course of more than an hour. Feeling enlighted, I dethroned, numb legs and all, and felt that there was little choice but to ante up and do it right. If I have to postpone a lens or accessory purchase for a few months, so be it. $1,000 is the price of admission into The Club of No Regrets--at least in this case. I've settled on the Gitzo G1325 CF legs ($500), the Gitzo G1321 leveling base ($160--a must, absolutely), the Kirk BH1 panning ball head with Quick Release ($350), and QR plates for the 70-200/2.8 HSM, AF-S 300/4, and D100/MB ($150)--for a grand total of about $1,200!

OUCH! That's a nice AF-S zoom! Are you INSANE?! Are you a PRO?!

Nope, but quality images aren't the exclusive domain of professional photogs. There are so many reasons to pony up--as much as it hurts--and follow this advice (I'm just a puppet here, this is not MY "wisdom"). One poster has said that he'd rather have just a FEW items of QUALITY over a bunch of cheap items--and this is the one area that will get you more quality shots than just about anything else. It allows you to move to any point in the blink of an eye under the most demanding situations and eliminates mirror slap and every other factor that will affect the quality of your images. The tripod is just another extension in the mechanics of the entire (d)SLR chain, and a cheap one will compromise the entire package as the weakest link in that chain despite the fact that you may have $5,000+ in the best camera and optics sitting atop.

I feel "enlightened" now, which is also "empowering" (I hate New Age buzzwords, and this is the first time I've ever used it, but it's true). I don't have that reluctance to spend the money any more, now that I can see the future in this particular instance. I guess I feel like I just "get it" and it's one of the VERY few times in my life that I have learned from the experiences of others without having to duplicate their mistakes the hard way.

I guess I'm just excited about the prospects. I may have to save pennies for a month or two and live with my POS $100 fluid head "video" tripod that I've had for 10 years, but as least I won't make the mistake of getting what I can afford at the moment only to dump it next year and spend the money again.

I know most here already know this, so I apologize for cluttering up the forum by stating what, to many, may be the obvious, but I feel it may be of benefit to many in my position who just don't know what we don't know.

Brendan
--

Newbie requests inspection and critique of new photos at: http://www.pbase.com/bgetchel/root
 
I agree, I read the same article a few days ago. I decided to ante up a Gitzo Reporter Series Tripod with a Kirk BH-3 Head (slightly smaller than the BH-1 but will hold all lenses up to the 80-400VR or 80-200 AFS). I am unclear though about the auto leveler Gitzo 1321. I also picked up some plates from ReallyRightStuff today. Oh-well, one can always make more money!
Talk about a change in thinking. I always viewed tripods as just a
three-legged thing you stuck your camera on top of--nothing more.
Well, it's amazing what an education can do for you, so I thought
I'd share a snippet of my "journey" to [a little] tripod
understanding in hopes that the majority of those out there who are
just like me can avoid many of the mistakes.

If you're a new D100 owner, just as putting junk glass in front of
your new $2,000 camera will compromise your images, so will
slapping it on top of a cheap $200 tripod. And YES, I said $200 and
CHEAP in the same sentence!

Originally, that's about what I "budgeted" (in my mind) for a
"good" tripod. Well, let's just say that I couldn't be more wrong,
and why it will be a HUGE mistake to get something of that caliber
versus sacrificing, biting your lip, living with your "Velcro" or
whatever cheap Piece-O'-Junk you're using now for a few more months
while you save up for something that'll really work. A tripod will
be with you for YEARS, perhaps DECADES, while the D100 may last you
months or a couple of years at best before you feel the urge to
upgrade to whatever amazing technology the future holds.

Here's the genesis of my tripod selection process. I should state
that I'm a poor schmuck amateur like most D100 owners who is FAR
from a pro photog and doesn't make a dime from my shots. This is a
"fun" hobby for me and the wife.

After reading Thom Hogan's new, semi-comprehensive article on
camera support systems (tripods) here:

http://www.bythom.com/support.htm

I began to question my thinking about what constitutes a quality
tripod. I still was not convinced that the ROI (Return On Images)
would be reflected in a $1,000 tripod setup versus a $200 one. Thom
convinced me that I needed to go a little higher, so I moved into
the $500 neighborhood of thinking. Thom's BEST ADVICE in that
entire column was, surprisingly, to order the Really Right Stuff
printed catalog:

http://www.reallyrightstuff.com/business_info/free_catalog/index.html

It contains an veritable treasure trove of information that isn't
available on their site (yet). I just got it today (my address was
hand-written on the large envelope--I love that!) and opened it
immediately. I decided to take it with me on my ascent to the
Porcelain Throne and there absorbed its contents over the course of
more than an hour. Feeling enlighted, I dethroned, numb legs and
all, and felt that there was little choice but to ante up and do it
right. If I have to postpone a lens or accessory purchase for a few
months, so be it. $1,000 is the price of admission into The Club of
No Regrets--at least in this case. I've settled on the Gitzo G1325
CF legs ($500), the Gitzo G1321 leveling base ($160--a must,
absolutely), the Kirk BH1 panning ball head with Quick Release
($350), and QR plates for the 70-200/2.8 HSM, AF-S 300/4, and
D100/MB ($150)--for a grand total of about $1,200!

OUCH! That's a nice AF-S zoom! Are you INSANE?! Are you a PRO?!

Nope, but quality images aren't the exclusive domain of
professional photogs. There are so many reasons to pony up--as much
as it hurts--and follow this advice (I'm just a puppet here, this
is not MY "wisdom"). One poster has said that he'd rather have just
a FEW items of QUALITY over a bunch of cheap items--and this is the
one area that will get you more quality shots than just about
anything else. It allows you to move to any point in the blink of
an eye under the most demanding situations and eliminates mirror
slap and every other factor that will affect the quality of your
images. The tripod is just another extension in the mechanics of
the entire (d)SLR chain, and a cheap one will compromise the entire
package as the weakest link in that chain despite the fact that you
may have $5,000+ in the best camera and optics sitting atop.

I feel "enlightened" now, which is also "empowering" (I hate New
Age buzzwords, and this is the first time I've ever used it, but
it's true). I don't have that reluctance to spend the money any
more, now that I can see the future in this particular instance. I
guess I feel like I just "get it" and it's one of the VERY few
times in my life that I have learned from the experiences of others
without having to duplicate their mistakes the hard way.

I guess I'm just excited about the prospects. I may have to save
pennies for a month or two and live with my POS $100 fluid head
"video" tripod that I've had for 10 years, but as least I won't
make the mistake of getting what I can afford at the moment only to
dump it next year and spend the money again.

I know most here already know this, so I apologize for cluttering
up the forum by stating what, to many, may be the obvious, but I
feel it may be of benefit to many in my position who just don't
know what we don't know.

Brendan
--
Newbie requests inspection and critique of new photos at:
http://www.pbase.com/bgetchel/root
 
I just figured out that the leveling base you are talking about is for the 3,4 and 5 series Gitzo tripods. Unfortunately, I bought a 2 series. Oh-well, I guess I did not spend enough money!!
 
I just figured out that the leveling base you are talking about is
for the 3,4 and 5 series Gitzo tripods. Unfortunately, I bought a
2 series. Oh-well, I guess I did not spend enough money!!
...spend "enough" money? Fortunately, I don't think you or I will ever have to concern ourselves with that.

I know many others have spent MUCH less and say they're happy with what they have, and for their style that may certainly be the case. My personal choice(s) were arrived at because I was looking for, what I believe, is the ultimate in flexibility, whether shooting a tethered portrait, climbing a rocky mountain summit, wading a stream, or shooting a sporting event. For only $160 I (personally) view the G1321 leveling base as almost mandatory. I just want every extra "edge" I can get and not worry about losing a shot because my tripod isn't precisely level. With the 1321 I can quickly extend the legs very roughly without concern for leveling the bubble, and let the 1321 level out the camera in the blink of an eye--"automatically."

I figure at this level I'm not going to forego a $160 option that opens up such a window of opportunity.

Dang! This is one EXPENSIVE hobby. I thought video was bad, but this is ridiculous!

Brendan
--

Newbie requests inspection and critique of new photos at: http://www.pbase.com/bgetchel/root
 
Have you ever been in a studio with a camera support system? One of those big rail systems with a side arm that comes out to the camera head?

Try several thousand dollars, and worth every penny. Not field useful, of course, but it's a good example of the importance of a support system.
--
jdoyle
 
Have you ever been in a studio with a camera support system? One
of those big rail systems with a side arm that comes out to the
camera head?
Try several thousand dollars, and worth every penny. Not field
useful, of course, but it's a good example of the importance of a
support system.
...in my "support system."

I've decided to name it "Overexpenditures Anonymous."

B=)
--

Newbie requests inspection and critique of new photos at: http://www.pbase.com/bgetchel/root
 
I love my 1325. Weighs nothing in my hand but yet sturdier than metal tripod three times its weight.

I got the rapid column, but so much for raising the height, but to have the hook at the bottom to hang another camera to steady the tripod even more.

That 1321 leveling base looks good. Darn if I heard of it before I bought a gear head mainly for the same purpose. But then again my gear head cost about the same as the 1321, except it is bulky but more useful.

Have anybody heard of a ROTATING HEAD? I have never, but I need something like that for panorama shoot. No, not to rotate the camera 360, but to gently rotate the vertical axis with the camera in vertical position, so that the lens is parallel to the ground. Fine adjustment of sorts. Another gear head can do the job, but it is too big to sit on the panorama frame. Something the size of the 1321 level base would be excellent. Perhaps a screw to rotate it clickwise or counter-clockwise.

--
JR
 
Is there a difference between the PDF catalog on the site and the
printed version?
Lemme check right now...

NOPE! No difference! I guess it'd be faster to download and print the PDF--though there's something about getting something with your name hand-written in the mail.

It makes me feel all warm and fuzzy ;-)

Brendan
--

Newbie requests inspection and critique of new photos at: http://www.pbase.com/bgetchel/root
 
Are you sure this is just not left over from when and where you first read the catalog?
Is there a difference between the PDF catalog on the site and the
printed version?
Lemme check right now...

NOPE! No difference! I guess it'd be faster to download and print
the PDF--though there's something about getting something with your
name hand-written in the mail.

It makes me feel all warm and fuzzy ;-)

Brendan
--
Newbie requests inspection and critique of new photos at:
http://www.pbase.com/bgetchel/root
 
G.I. -

It's been fun watching all this stuff going on about tripods. About 2 weeks ago I ordered a set of Gitzo 1227 legs (I like mobility and light weight since I pack a lot), backordered a B1 head (hopefully will arrive in 2 weeks or so), a set of leg protectors, a lot of plates from R.R,S. Lens plates, camera body L plates, Flash brackets, knob modifiers, etc..

This will join four other tripods I've used throughout the years, mostly with Olympus OM system gear which is much much lighter than the Nikon gear I recently switched over too, effectively making the use of two of these fine tripods (I used Slik before) not doable, and limiting the other two to wide angle or other lightweight primes only..

The new setup will handle everything I can through at it, even the longer lenses if used with a weight hanging from the centre collumn and used carefully, will be easy to pack in and back out again, and should last a good long time.. I made up a nylon net (heavy duty) out of 1/4 inch nyloon rope (strong), by weaving the rope into the net I wanted (learned this on an Indian Reservation I was living with an shooting a long time ago), so I could fill it with heavy rocks and hang it from the centre column to further stablise everything when the weather is playing games with me or I hang a heavy lens on it. You can also buy collapasable metal mesh carry buckets at any camping store..

I also bought a Hakuba two way (vertical and horizontal) leveler that attached to my hot shoe to make setup and leveling easy, since the 1227 precluded the use of the auto leveler.. Which is a good things since I won't be tempted to carry the extra weight..

If this setup works are "advertised" I'll probably buy a big set of legs, the leveler, and the B1H or B2 soon also..

One thing I couldn't find.. On two of my ball heads (generic Asian brands with the names long since rubbed off) I have "moving" collars that can click into place for when you move/carry the camera attached to the tripod.. Does anyone know of such an item for the B1?

Take care.

BKKSW
 
The Arca Swiss B1 head is a ball head that has a seperate axis for
panorama shots, it might be what you are looking for.

Derek
Derek,

Thanks, but a ball head would not do.

A ball head would destroy the other 2 axis and/or position, which is being set up by a gear head and a panorama head/frame.

I wonder if this panorama head from Foba would do? Can you lock the base once in position? Anybody own this thing?

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bh3.sph/FrameWork.class?FNC=ProductActivator__Aproductlist_html___113703___FOPB___REG___CatID=2461___SID=F15879AED70

Does it have a screw on one side and a socket (for the screw) on the other side? 1/4"? 3/8"?

Wide idea? Superglue a quick release base to the Kaiden pano head? Just kidding.

--
JR
 
Kirk Industries has something called a "snap collar" available on their website. http://www.kirkphoto.com/
G.I. -

It's been fun watching all this stuff going on about tripods.
About 2 weeks ago I ordered a set of Gitzo 1227 legs (I like
mobility and light weight since I pack a lot), backordered a B1
head (hopefully will arrive in 2 weeks or so), a set of leg
protectors, a lot of plates from R.R,S. Lens plates, camera body L
plates, Flash brackets, knob modifiers, etc..

This will join four other tripods I've used throughout the years,
mostly with Olympus OM system gear which is much much lighter than
the Nikon gear I recently switched over too, effectively making the
use of two of these fine tripods (I used Slik before) not doable,
and limiting the other two to wide angle or other lightweight
primes only..

The new setup will handle everything I can through at it, even the
longer lenses if used with a weight hanging from the centre collumn
and used carefully, will be easy to pack in and back out again, and
should last a good long time.. I made up a nylon net (heavy duty)
out of 1/4 inch nyloon rope (strong), by weaving the rope into the
net I wanted (learned this on an Indian Reservation I was living
with an shooting a long time ago), so I could fill it with heavy
rocks and hang it from the centre column to further stablise
everything when the weather is playing games with me or I hang a
heavy lens on it. You can also buy collapasable metal mesh carry
buckets at any camping store..

I also bought a Hakuba two way (vertical and horizontal) leveler
that attached to my hot shoe to make setup and leveling easy, since
the 1227 precluded the use of the auto leveler.. Which is a good
things since I won't be tempted to carry the extra weight..

If this setup works are "advertised" I'll probably buy a big set of
legs, the leveler, and the B1H or B2 soon also..

One thing I couldn't find.. On two of my ball heads (generic Asian
brands with the names long since rubbed off) I have "moving"
collars that can click into place for when you move/carry the
camera attached to the tripod.. Does anyone know of such an item
for the B1?

Take care.

BKKSW
 
I don't get it. Why wouldn't a Ball Head work?

I level the tripod or have a leveling adapter attached between the tripod and the ball head. Then I setup the shot, leveling the camera with a hot shoe level adapter and lock down the ball head. I can then take a panoramic shot by only swiveling the base of the head.

I don't see how a panorama head would be any easier? So which part am I missing?

--
Tony

http://homepage.mac.com/a5m http://www.pbase.com/a5m
Thanks, but a ball head would not do.

A ball head would destroy the other 2 axis and/or position, which
is being set up by a gear head and a panorama head/frame.

I wonder if this panorama head from Foba would do? Can you lock
the base once in position? Anybody own this thing?
--
JR
 
I don't get it. Why wouldn't a Ball Head work?

I level the tripod or have a leveling adapter attached between the
tripod and the ball head. Then I setup the shot, leveling the
camera with a hot shoe level adapter and lock down the ball head. I
can then take a panoramic shot by only swiveling the base of the
head.

I don't see how a panorama head would be any easier? So which part
am I missing?
Let's get technical.

The gear head sits on the tripod leg. The job of the gear head is to provide a level "platform".

Then the panorama head sits on the gear head. The job of the pano head is not only to rotate 360, but also position the camera so that it rotates around the lens' nodal point, and also put the camera in the vertical position. Hint -- the pano head is in the shape of an adjustable "L".

The camera is mounted on the vertical side of the "L", sideways of course. Since it is sideway, it has the tendancy at times to rotate around tripod screw ever so slightly, making the lens point slightly downwards instead of parallel to the ground.

The device I need is to rotate the lens back to parallel with the ground and lock it, without releasing and re-screwing the into-the-camera tripod screw. A hotshoe level is mounted on the hotshoe, so I can easliy see when adjustment is needed.

The ball head is (1) too big for the pano head to compensate so that the lens would still be rotating around the nodal point (2) too much freedom. These are minute precision moves.

--
JR
 
Thanks a lot Idiot! Now my wallet is $1500 lighter. I went with the 1227, leg paddings, 1321 stablizer, Kirk Ballhead, Kirk quick release system, Kirk L-plate for my D1X and Mamiya 645AF, and Kirk standard plate for my RZ. This stuff better be good or I am coming after you! :)
 

Keyboard shortcuts

Back
Top