Sony scared of competing directly against Canon,Nikon and Pentax

HopeSpringsEternal

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I think that I now get what the SLTs are mostly about. It is all about having failed to compete head to head with well known trusted camera makers and deciding that future attempts to compete purely on features/price will result in failure again.

So Sony decided to compete by not competing. Ie,they simply create a new market category ,SLT,where Canon ,Nikon and Pentax are non existent and hope Canon,Nikon and Pentax will be unable to stoop to their level and compete there since they have a much more established base of serious users who would not accept the IQ and usability compromises that Sony has made in its creation of the SLT category.

For this plan to work, the brick and mortar stores need to start carrying these SLT and NEX models and Sony would need to actually market these products on TV and other media outlets which it never did for their Alpha DSLRs.

I think that Sony has purposely refused to provide replacement A700 class DSLRs because it actually doesn't want traditional photographers as customers because those are the kind of customers who make the most traditional demands on Sony -- an area where they are least able to compete and satisfy the customers at a good profit.

Sony hopes that the A700 class users will jump ship or at least get out of their way while the Playstation generation, soccer moms, P&S upgraders and people looking for a "neat" photographic toy/gadget come rushing in to buy these novel NEX and SLT cameras.

So it is a generational problem for Sony. It's like they were married to an older Minolta battleworn woman who was always nagging them to compete directly with Canikon and it was not enjoyable for them, so now they can abandon the old nagger and seek comfort (profit) in the new young things who can appreciate Sony's expertise in electronic lifestyle toys and gadgets. :-)

If you don't believe that analogy check out all the forum Sony groupies (paid or otherwise deluded) who are begging them to drop EVFs and embrace autoHDR and psuedo-10fps SLT cameras even on the full frame cameras.

I gambled when I chose Sony rather than Nikon and Canon. I never actually thought that they would drop out of the traditional higher-end DSLR business after only one generation (A700,A900 are pretty much same design generation) but I guess I was wrong. I bought into Sony mostly on the price, minolta old glass availability and in sensor anti-shake. My first was the A350 which I found too slow and too small for my hands. I tried the A700 and fell in love with it's ergonomics and speed. I quickly purchased it. Nothing since from Sony has come anywhere the value of the A700 in the APS-C category. The A900 was not just for me because it did not compete feature wise with the 5d MkII in lacking video and live-view plus poor low ISO. If Sony released a new FF with good high ISO sensor and LV/video I would buy it the next day. But you know what, they never will.

So anyone who expects an OVF fullframe or A7xx needs to just come grips with the fact that we've been dropped as we are no longer a desired consumer for Sony.

To continue my earlier analogy, half-seriously, is that like a cheating spouse, Sony won't just come out and state that they have taken us all for a ride (see the stupid 2yr old A7xx wood mock-ups). So they say, "wait another year for the A7xx". Yeah, that's the ticket...

A700 users, welcome to dumps-ville :-)

Btw, I have a NiB A700, Min 28-135mm, Beercan,Maxum 7,Sigma 500mm f/4.5,etc.. check my profile, on the chopping block

--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/hopeiseternal/
 
kthxbye :)
 
you're right! Sony is DEAD. 2011 is just the big three - Nikon Canon and Pentax.
 
Sorry but I respectfully disagree. I currently use the A900 with CZ lenses but have the A55 on order for my hiking needs and casual fun photography.
 
Just like it has for Pentax and Olympus and KM to be frank. you are exactly right here. but your also not thinking it though because your too busy stamping your seet like a spoiled child.

Your not selling anything of interest all you have are couple DT lenses and everythingelse is thrird party. no wonder Sony isn't supporting you..
I think that I now get what the SLTs are mostly about. It is all about having failed to compete head to head with well known trusted camera makers and deciding that future attempts to compete purely on features/price will result in failure again.
--
http://www.fotosource.com/downloads/flyer/eye_cancer_en_CA.pdf
 
I think that I now get what the SLTs are mostly about. It is all about having failed to compete head to head with well known trusted camera makers and deciding that future attempts to compete purely on features/price will result in failure again.
No, it is about the quality of the implementation. Sony didn't go for the regular live view implementation because it was subpar. (contrast detection is slow), so they launched something that did work very well.

However, it affected the viewfinder and it didn't allow for video. So Sonys solution - to keep the best live view experience and make the best video experience was the SLT way.

Sony is innovating. And that scares the living daylight out of some. I can understand that - there where years before people left their film cameras (I was one of those who hold tight to that), and there will be years before many conservative people embrace the mirrorless and SLT variants. (I won't be one of those).

I know you won't listen to reason, and continue trolling because of your fears that things change.

My Minolta Autocord is as manual as one can get, my SRT-101 does at least have a lightmeter, my Minolta 7000 has autofocus, and my 700si is made of plastic with a metal body, autofocuses and have the infamous creative card system that probably upset quite a few traditionalists. Imagine putting a card into the camera and it has intervalometer, multispot-metring, multiple exposures effects, stores the settings for the last three rolls etc. And then my Sony Alpha 100 which is both digital and from Sony - That was a tough pill for many to swallow. Still there are many who one has to pry the Minolta 7d from their dead cold hands before they go Sony (well, if their camera hasn't got too bad black frame problem.)

But I'll save you the trouble from swallowing anything but changing brands, what do you want for your 28-135mm?
--

I want Sonys answer to the Nikon D3S, with moderate resolution for optimal high iso quality, and with video and live view.
 
The A900 was not just for me because it did not compete feature wise with the 5d MkII in lacking video and live-view plus poor low ISO.
I guess you only shoot Jpegs because at low ISO, the A900 shows equal amounts of noise, better DR, less deep shadow banding.
If Sony released a new FF with good high ISO sensor and LV/video I would buy it the next day. But you know what, they never will.
I'd like to know the source for that one.

But yeah, your theory that Sony isn't interested in the "serious users"must be true. Just disregard the minor detail of all the higher end lenses (the glaring holes were mostly in the mid segment until recent releases of cheap primes), the new 24mm CZ included.
 
Why should Sony compete directly agaist the competition - it would me madness to invest heavily in a saturated market. Innovete and bring forward something new, and you may lead the pack. Which is ecactly what Sony is doing.

Old clumpsy dsls are yesterdays news, dslts are the future - no doubt!
 
Why should Sony compete directly agaist the competition - it would me madness to invest heavily in a saturated market. Innovete and bring forward something new, and you may lead the pack. Which is ecactly what Sony is doing.

Old clumpsy dsls are yesterdays news, dslts are the future - no doubt!
I agree with this 100%. Why compete with Canikon when you have virtually no chance of converting any users. The only option is to go after new users even if it means upsetting some current users (which is such a small market share to begin with).
 
Sony needed to find an answer to the question "Why buy Sony instead of Canon or Nikon or others?". Their answer is the SLT cameras. They really do need something to differentiate themselves from the establishment. Some may not like their answer but they believe it is their way forward to take market share. We shall see...
--
Rick
 
HopeSpringsEternal is just another self-proclaimed advanced shooter. Funny how all these "advanced shooters" (even the ones who bought their first camera ever last year) suffer from the same condescending tone calling everyone else "soccer moms" p&s shooters.
 
Sony needed to find an answer to the question "Why buy Sony instead of Canon or Nikon or others?". Their answer is the SLT cameras. They really do need something to differentiate themselves from the establishment. Some may not like their answer but they believe it is their way forward to take market share. We shall see...
--
Rick
How about simply to "build" market share. They are not taking anything from Canikon. Those users tend to stay Canikon users until they die.
 
Don't mean to be rude but, I don't see nothing in your Flickr photostream that could not have been shot with an a55. The need of high-end gear should be for those who consider doing high-end photography. Which is not your case neither mine. Your a300 was an excellent camera capable of awesome photography in good hands. Same goes with your actual a700 which is still working actually. So I don't see where is the panic about getting something else than a a900, a850 for high-end right now. Sorry. I am not paid nor a hard fan of Sony... my heart is still with Minolta. I just consider, I would not take better pictures with Canon or Nikon right now. I am not a pixel peeper.

Normand
My 365 SP photography challenge :
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cafemoka/
 
Sony needed to find an answer to the question "Why buy Sony instead of Canon or Nikon or others?". Their answer is the SLT cameras. They really do need something to differentiate themselves from the establishment. Some may not like their answer but they believe it is their way forward to take market share. We shall see...
--
Rick
How about simply to "build" market share. They are not taking anything from Canikon. Those users tend to stay Canikon users until they die.
I agree. I was talking about those buying their 1st DSLR not those already invested in a system. If Sony's offerings don't have any real advantages such as price, technology, etc why not just go with one of the big 2?

--
Rick
 
Why should Sony compete directly against the competition - it would me madness to invest heavily in a saturated market. Innovate and bring forward something new, and you may lead the pack. Which is exactly what Sony is doing.

Old clumpsy dsls are yesterdays news, dslts are the future - no doubt!
I agree with this 100%. Why compete with Canikon when you have virtually no chance of converting any users. The only option is to go after new users even if it means upsetting some current users (which is such a small market share to begin with).
To illustrate the problem Sony face in converting existing Canon & Nikon system users I can do no better than give the example of Walt. He openly loathes everything Sony stands for, thinks they are headed in the wrong direction and has given up on them ever giving him what he wants, but he admits he would have huge difficulty leaving because of his investment in quality glass.

There is huge inertia amongst the established "AA" or "enthusiast" market - if not Walt and others here would be long gone. This is why they are so bitter - because they feel trapped. It's not about being scared to compete with Canikon on the enthusiast battle ground...it's a case of being realistic. If Walt can't leave Sony, why will others with several good lenses accumulated leave their systems for Sony. So the strategy is to change the market, innovate, and attract new users in numbers ...and with DSLRs now affordable (unlike just a few years back ) the DSLR and iCL camera markets have expanded rapidly, meaning you can build share from new users.

DSLRs are now far, far more common than they were ...one look at tourists anywhere shows it... and even compared with the historical penetration of film SLRs which were always for keen amateurs & pros. Now the mirrorless iCL sector is predicted to eclipse DSLR sales in the coming year...with Sony now brand leader in iCLs with the NEX.

How is Sony making a huge mistake. Of course, we'd all like what we want sooner - for me I'm waiting for the A77 or Axx. In the meantime I may buy something to get better high noise IQ. Perhaps that is part of Sony's strategy...get people to buy and interim camera...then upgrade again...then pass on their interim upgrade camera on...always building the number of Sony bodies and users out there.

Calling Sony chicken is simply childish and makes you look like you really don't understand the camera market at all.
 
I think that I now get what the SLTs are mostly about. It is all about having failed to compete head to head with well known trusted camera makers and deciding that future attempts to compete purely on features/price will result in failure again.
How can you say they failed? they are #3 in just a few years (Minolta did't made that in the DSLR world)
So Sony decided to compete by not competing. Ie,they simply create a new market category ,SLT,where Canon ,Nikon and Pentax are non existent and hope Canon,Nikon and Pentax will be unable to stoop to their level and compete there since they have a much more established base of serious users who would not accept the IQ and usability compromises that Sony has made in its creation of the SLT category
Oh and youre saying the other brands did no compromice when making video without (fast working) AF? Or making fast working AF in LV? Sony did! And look, the IQ is the same or better then the competitors at the same price!
I think that Sony has purposely refused to provide replacement A700 class DSLRs because it actually doesn't want traditional photographers as customers because those are the kind of customers who make the most traditional demands on Sony -- an area where they are least able to compete and satisfy the customers at a good profit.
Well why will Sony bring the A7xx next year? Why did they bring the last real photographers cameras (the A900 and A850) without video, without LV in a time others gave you those features? To frighten the traditional photographers?
So it is a generational problem for Sony. It's like they were married to an older Minolta battleworn woman who was always nagging them to compete directly with Canikon and it was not enjoyable for them, so now they can abandon the old nagger and seek comfort (profit) in the new young things who can appreciate Sony's expertise in electronic lifestyle toys and gadgets. :-)
Lets say, for the sake of the argument, you're right. What is wrong with wanting to make profit? What is wrong with giving the people they want (well not all, but most of them)?
If you don't believe that analogy check out all the forum Sony groupies (paid or otherwise deluded) who are begging them to drop EVFs and embrace autoHDR and psuedo-10fps SLT cameras even on the full frame cameras.
Or you go to the canon and Nikon paid posters here (like you?) who try to make Canon and Nikon look better then Sony! (just as streange a conspiracy as you are painting boy!)

. The A900 was not just for me because it did not compete feature wise with the 5d MkII in lacking video and live-view plus poor low ISO. If Sony released a new FF with good high ISO sensor and LV/video I would buy it the next day. But you know what, they never will.

well the new cameras are giving LV, Video (not realy traditional photographers featuresl, but you have to use that only when it is in favour of your argument and forget it when you want to make the other brands look strong don't you?)in a way much better then Canon/Nikon or Pentax are doing, without to much of an IQ loss according to all reviews I read: ghosting: almost none, only in very rare situations, for the rest Very good resolution (to be compared with Canon and Nikon) and very goodhigh ISO and Low ISO.
So anyone who expects an OVF fullframe or A7xx needs to just come grips with the fact that we've been dropped as we are no longer a desired consumer for Sony.
Are we? Ore are you? Sony did tell the A7xx will come and it will, just wait (or look from your Nikon/Canon/Pentax side at us when those cameras do arrive. And maybe the A7x will be even better then everything....

Did you look at the mockups of the Nex? They came didn't they. Sony told us begin this year the A7xx will come next year. Instead of thinking up some stupid theory, you should be out shooting pictures, or just sell your stuf and go on. It is not that important you know? is ias just a picture making machine no more!
 
Sony needed to find an answer to the question "Why buy Sony instead of Canon or Nikon or others?". Their answer is the SLT cameras. They really do need something to differentiate themselves from the establishment. Some may not like their answer but they believe it is their way forward to take market share. We shall see...
--
IMHO that's one of the good reasons for the SLT. Another reason is the fact, already stated by Sony, that current DSLRs are costly due to its basic design, rellying too much on complex mechanisms with delicate moving parts. Those require expensive materials and equipment to be manufactured and assembled reliably. As an outstanding electronics giant, Sony has great chances of success in promoting this technology shift ( IMO better than any of the other players ).
I'm confident that Sony is on the right track!

... Lucas
--
Always having fun with photography ...

http://lucaspix.smugmug.com/

 
Don't mean to be rude but, I don't see nothing in your Flickr photostream that could not have been shot with an a55. The need of high-end gear should be for those who consider doing high-end photography. Which is not your case neither mine. Your a300 was an excellent camera capable of awesome photography in good hands. Same goes with your actual a700 which is still working actually. So I don't see where is the panic about getting something else than a a900, a850 for high-end right now. Sorry. I am not paid nor a hard fan of Sony... my heart is still with Minolta. I just consider, I would not take better pictures with Canon or Nikon right now. I am not a pixel peeper.

Normand
My 365 SP photography challenge :
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cafemoka/
I think you've nailed it there. I think the OP was an interesting mix of petulance arrogance and condescention. Apart from that, it was fine.
--

Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too? - Douglas Adams
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rb56/
 

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