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A few thoughts on E-5, sure, why not?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Raist3d
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stimmer said:
Good call on reducing expectations. The anger and fervor you see on here is definitely due to rumor sites and tidbits people got along the way.

If those rumors hadn't persisted about super systems and this camera competing with full frame models we wouldn't have the anger we see now.

If you take away all expectations, this is a really nice camera. They've fixed most of the issues I had with my E3(and i love that camera).

I'm almost positive it will be useable at ISO 3200. It should have great image quality. And yes, this camera was specifically designed for current E System lens owners.

So for that I will say thank you Olympus. This is exactly what I needed with my E3 aging at 3 years.

If I'm making money with my E3 still to this day, I'm confident this E5 model will pay for itself very soon if I choose to purchase it. (Which I most certainly will because I'm a sucker for Olympus)
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I agree with almost everything above.

I think the E-3 is not revolutionary but evolutionary and it will improve on the (for me) already excellent camera that is the E-3.

I like that they kept ergonomics and OVF.

The changes and improvements (LCD etc and let's assume IQ will indeed be better, with not much more MP but a newer sensor and processor) are all welcome but not urgent.

If someone (DPR) could test whether it makes even better use of those magnificent Zuikos I've got than the E-3, then I will be happy, and I may even buy sooner than after the normal price drop in 6 months or so after availability.

For someone who uses his E-3 as intensive as me, this camera will come just in time to replace a worn-out E-3.

Anyway, I will HAVE to buy a new camera eventually : my total shutter count on my E-3 is running towards 70.000 clicks fast.

But the E-5 is less of an immediate "must-buy" like the E-3 was for me.

(Coming from E-330, weather-sealing, IS, other AF, big OVF were extremely large attractions, to name only those. The transition from E-3 to E-5, though nice without a doubt, will be less urgent.)

--
Roel Hendrickx

lots of images : http://www.roelh.zenfolio.com

my E-3 user field report from Tunisian Sahara: http://www.biofos.com/ukpsg/roel.html
 
simpy said:
Agreed. I just hope that some of the image quality improvements apply to raw images as well (banding would; cleaner analog circuitry would, too). So far, the E-5 seems to cater to the JPEG user.
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Yes, I wonder how much of the detail improvements are due to JPEG processing in the TruePic V+ processor, and how much is due to the lighter AA-filter and other elements along the processing pipeline for RAW captures. As pro/advanced use normally involves RAW, let's hope for maximum improvements to RAW files as well. Might that also involve a new Studio version?

--
Erik Aaseth
http://www.pbase.com/eaaseth
 
eaa said:
Yes, I wonder how much of the detail improvements are due ti JPEG processing in the TruePic V+ processor, and how much is due to the lighter AA-filter. As pro/advanced use normally involves RAW, let's hope for maximum improvements to RAW files as well. Might that also involve a new Studio version?
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I thought they discontinued Studio?

I guess the baseline for the raw performance is the E-PL1. The major question for me is whether they managed to improve on that by improving the analog circuit design. I certainly hope so, because the PEN dynamic range scores in DxOmark are abysmal compared to the competition, especially at low ISO values. [Important to me as I like to make large adjustments in raw]
 
eaa said:
Raist3d said:
If this camera doesn't back focus, fixed banding, I don't think it's a bad camera.
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The E-5 has got AF micro adjustment like the E-30, so fine-tuning any focus issues should be a non-issue I guess :)

--
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It's not listed in the E-5 specifications on the Olympus UK site, as is the case for the E-30 "AF Fine Adjust".......could be a site error......??
 
Hi Richardo

Totally agree with your points. I'm really shocked that they have simply repackaged teh EPX into an an E3 body ( I was really hoping that wasn't the case) . To have released this last year ay top dollar would have been ok. An E3+ with some needed changes.. nothing revolutionary but enough to tide those Pro/Semi-Pro users looking to upgrade because the E3 was showing its age until an slightly more advanced upgraded E5 would be released would have been fine. However, to release such a camera now, with last years tech and expect to have that compete gainst the likes of the 7D/D400 and last another 3 years at top dollar is pretty insulting. I defintely won;t be buying one.. my E3 is working just fine and when it kicks the bucket the E5 won't be on the shopping list esp not at that price.

HarjTT
 
Raist3d said:
Well I tried to lower the unrealistic expectations of many but alas...

Anyway, what I really think is that this is still a nice camera and making the AA filter from what I have seen can help a lot in "upping" the detail/image quality. Honestly, I haven't been too taken by the 18MP Canon sensor of say the 7D on that end, and a low AA filter on an E-5 would probably make it "effective" to some 14-15 of what is out there which isn't bad.

If this camera doesn't back focus, fixed banding, I don't think it's a bad camera.

But at $1699 USD... er.. no. I mean. I feel this is a 1 year late camera with the wrong price. If it was $1,299 USD MSRP then it would look much more interesting (maybe say $1,399 MSRP).

This is clearly a bone to the 4/3rd lens owner, I don't see anyone from another brand jumping for this, though the Olympus lens lineup has afaik more lenses consistently weather sealed than others, so weather sealing is only as good as the whole system being weather sealed.

It also makes me wonder what kind of contract Olympus has with Panasonic that they got saddled with the yet again same Pen sensor.

It's also pretty clear who's driving the imaging division: micro four thirds.
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I can certainly agree with all you write above. There's no pleasing people really...

I recall discussions from last year about 'what does the E-3 upgrade need?'. There were basically three positions:

1. Don't bother, Olympus is dead anyway

2. Come up with something completely revolutionary (trine sensors, FF that allows use of 4/3 lenses, etc.)

3. We're very happy with the E-3 as a camera, but would like the improved IQ of the latest cameras, video and oh yeah, improve the lcd.

Very generally speaking the first group existed of non-Olympus users, the second of other Olympus camera users (and some E-3), and the last group mostly of current E-3 users. So, clearly Olympus have listened to their user base on this camera.

IF (needs to be proven with samples) the IQ is indeed among the best available in cropped sensors, then this camera will make a lot of sense to current E-3 users with an investment in SHG lenses. But if they would lower the price a fair bit, it might even have enough appeal to attract new Olympus users.

Logically speaking, there's almost no cost-rationale for this price: the body design (and maybe even production line) is almost completely sunk cost, the sensor is also sold in a $480 camera. Olympus MSRP are always quite high and come down rather quickly. Maybe they use a high margin as an incentive for shops to carry the camera?

Damien
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bilgy_no1
 
mfbernstein said:
ginsbu said:
Chris_in_Osaka said:
Seems like Oly is doing what Nikon does with it's upgrades. They didn't run out and totally redesign the D300. They tweaked an already great camera and came out with the D300s. Same thing with the D3 to D3s.

The only real issue is why it took so long. I'd imagine it had something to do with the Pen, which was hitting the selves around the time the D300s was announced.
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That's the thing though... The Nikon approach (incremental mid-cycle updates) is only sensible when your updates put you in touch with the competition. But the E-5 is dated already.
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Right. The D300 was considered widely ahead of it's then Canon competitor, the 40D, when it was released. The D300s is considered at best on par with the 7D. And that was a 2-year refresh.
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no way does D300 match 7D which took Mp pro-sumer madness to a whole new level. I see D300 as a more reliable rig, but Canon have it all over Nikon's best APSC in this case

--
Riley

any similarity to persons living or dead is coincidental and unintended
 
RoelHendrickx said:
The specs say it's the same magnesium alloy that the E-3 had (glad with that).

But on this (official) site, there is a short animated tour of the camera, and under "Reliability" one of the slideshow images says "Heavy Duty ALUMINIUM body" ?
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Must be a typo by someone who doesn't know their metals. If you go to the technical info (the '+' sign) they'll mention magnesium again.

Simon
 
Not to mention that this camera could have been released prior to PMA.

The E5 is a nice synthesis of what Oly has done best in the last 3 years - got to give them credit for that. A solid, well thought out camera, with quality built.

IQ is still unknown, but i found the malleability of the 12mp sensor (be it pen or E30) very poor, with excessive shadow noise. I really, really hope they've improved on this - they deserve it - but i still think it will be a camera excellent for OOC jpegs - not much more, sadly.

Hopefully the new engine, while extracting more detail, will be able to keep some of it at higher isos. I won't put any money on a clean iso 3200+ shot from it though.

The price is much, much too steep, when you think about the competition. That's the really bad point.

Anyway, since it will be only sold as body only, it won't appeal the masses - but we know that 4/3 doesn't, anyway.

While i still really like my olympus gear (for what's left of it : e3/e30, 7-14, 12-60, 50-200, 35-100, sig150), this announcement is also making one thing very clear : it will be trounced by the press, since they always compare to the competition ; this means, however solid the customer base is, it won't attract any new users : the oly dslr line is therefore fading, very surely.

I really thought i'd be eventually coming back to Oly someday - the e5 won't make me come back, so i guess you'll see some pretty lenses up for sale in the next days (good for you !). I'd have been in the market for a revolutionnary e5 - sadly not for a E3mk2.

I will be watching m4/3 with interest though - always nice to have a smaller system than the FF Nikon i'm curently using. The Panasonic lenses are nice.

All in all : excellent camera, synthesis of what oly has done best in the digital age, for low iso shooters who want excellent right ooc jpegs.

Cheers,

Marc
--
http://mdezemery.zenfolio.com/

 
Totally understandable from your perspective (having already changed systems or at least gone dual).

For me, it's a camera that will keep me with Olympus for the next few years.

I have always loved my E-3 and the E-5 offers a few big and loads of minor improvements in a few areas that I had wished for.

But am I in a hurry to buy? No, unless IQ sees stellar improvements.
A few more thoughts here :
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1022&message=36316802
Cynops said:
Not to mention that this camera could have been released prior to PMA.

The E5 is a nice synthesis of what Oly has done best in the last 3 years - got to give them credit for that. A solid, well thought out camera, with quality built.

IQ is still unknown, but i found the malleability of the 12mp sensor (be it pen or E30) very poor, with excessive shadow noise. I really, really hope they've improved on this - they deserve it - but i still think it will be a camera excellent for OOC jpegs - not much more, sadly.

Hopefully the new engine, while extracting more detail, will be able to keep some of it at higher isos. I won't put any money on a clean iso 3200+ shot from it though.

The price is much, much too steep, when you think about the competition. That's the really bad point.

Anyway, since it will be only sold as body only, it won't appeal the masses - but we know that 4/3 doesn't, anyway.

While i still really like my olympus gear (for what's left of it : e3/e30, 7-14, 12-60, 50-200, 35-100, sig150), this announcement is also making one thing very clear : it will be trounced by the press, since they always compare to the competition ; this means, however solid the customer base is, it won't attract any new users : the oly dslr line is therefore fading, very surely.

I really thought i'd be eventually coming back to Oly someday - the e5 won't make me come back, so i guess you'll see some pretty lenses up for sale in the next days (good for you !). I'd have been in the market for a revolutionnary e5 - sadly not for a E3mk2.

I will be watching m4/3 with interest though - always nice to have a smaller system than the FF Nikon i'm curently using. The Panasonic lenses are nice.

All in all : excellent camera, synthesis of what oly has done best in the digital age, for low iso shooters who want excellent right ooc jpegs.

Cheers,

Marc
--
http://mdezemery.zenfolio.com/

Click to expand...
--
Roel Hendrickx

lots of images : http://www.roelh.zenfolio.com

my E-3 user field report from Tunisian Sahara: http://www.biofos.com/ukpsg/roel.html
 
simpy said:
RoelHendrickx said:
The specs say it's the same magnesium alloy that the E-3 had (glad with that).

But on this (official) site, there is a short animated tour of the camera, and under "Reliability" one of the slideshow images says "Heavy Duty ALUMINIUM body" ?
Click to expand...
Must be a typo by someone who doesn't know their metals. If you go to the technical info (the '+' sign) they'll mention magnesium again.
Click to expand...
obviously mag-alloy
something writes may not be all that familiar with
simpy said:
Simon
Click to expand...
--
Riley

any similarity to persons living or dead is coincidental and unintended
 
"But am I in a hurry to buy? No, unless IQ sees stellar improvements"

Excactly what I'm thinking...now we'll have to wait again....on some serious testing and user reports.
 
For me the E-3 is a rugged hobby article used for mainly holiday photos.

The E-3 is therefore a bit of a mixed bag of expensive potatoes to me.

Doing the body the same as minolta with the 7> 7i > A1 > A2 and keeping the buttons and behaviour more or less the same is realy not a bad thing. I am used to the E-3 so the E-5 should just feel like how the E-3 should have been. Remember people complaining that it looked different as a E-1! They learned.

Oly included most of the things we were talking about the E-3 was missing and worked with stuf which is allready a bit proven, even possible to make sure this thing was reliably using to the max what it has got.

And that is bottom line what you realy want if you use it, theoretical specs are all nice and dandy, in the end it comes down to how predictable, reliable and comfortable your camera behaves when you use those features and what the end result is.

I will never forget that my 7mp minolta 7i realy was slower to handle, a ***** in color space but made sharper a4 prints as the much faster 10mp a2 which was its EVO II version using the same body and lens but had more noise, and was a ooff focus wise 10% of the time.

Of course we want a better camera as the canikon competition and performance to blow for instance a canon 7d straight out of the water and want to hear you went up mount olympus wise man!

But in the end the proof of the pudding will be the eating, so lets wait out what the first reviews will tell us. And ask olympus for a huge trade-in bonus for those who allready own a Olympus. And yeah it might be wise to wait 6 months to see prices come down and see if there will be a evf version without a mirror (and therefore a lot quieter).

--
Olympus: E-3, 12-60SWD, EX25,EC20, FL50R, 50-200SWD
http://www.flickr.com/photos/iverhaar
 
Member said:
But at $1699 USD... er.. no. I mean. I feel this is a 1 year late camera with the wrong price. If it was $1,299 USD MSRP then it would look much more interesting (maybe say $1,399 MSRP).
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I think it is $1699 as a kit with the 12-60, no ?
 
OlegDulin said:
OlegDulin said:
But at $1699 USD... er.. no. I mean. I feel this is a 1 year late camera with the wrong price. If it was $1,299 USD MSRP then it would look much more interesting (maybe say $1,399 MSRP).
Click to expand...
I think it is $1699 as a kit with the 12-60, no ?
Click to expand...
Hehe, it seems you are not familiar with Olympus' history of 'interesting' pricing. To answer your question: no, it's body only.

Of course, I'm not convinced that they actually want to sell a large number of these cameras. They may just want to have an expensive model in their line-up to show that they have not quit 4/3.

Simon
 
simpy said:
I thought they discontinued Studio?
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Huh?

I've seen some vague rumors about an upcoming rewritten Oly sw, but no sign of that yet to my knowledge. And Oly surely must have a native RAW converter, right?
simpy said:
I guess the baseline for the raw performance is the E-PL1. The major question for me is whether they managed to improve on that by improving the analog circuit design. I certainly hope so, because the PEN dynamic range scores in DxOmark are abysmal compared to the competition, especially at low ISO values. [Important to me as I like to make large adjustments in raw]
Click to expand...
I guess they have tweaked the A/D conversion by implementing refined circuits/pipelines, so the DR will be a tad better than in the PENs. What's more important is the base ISO - is it still 100 like the E-3, or 200 as in e.g. E-620, wich has an improved highlight DR obtained by tweaking the curves?

I really hope for a native and noiseless base ISO 100, but still w/ a better highlight DR than the E-3.

--
Erik Aaseth
http://www.pbase.com/eaaseth
 
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