Update to phone call with Tom at Sigma - pls see corrections

Canoga tells me there is one confirmed order before mine...wonder
who it is? Is it you Samual? If they only receive one, I hope the
person who gets it will post their experiences ASAP.
Ths isn't me- I had never heard of Canoga until Tom mentioned it. I wish I had placed a pre-order there - they were taking then way back in Feb from what I hear now - I would like to have been on that list. Good for you for jumping on it! It sounds like you will have yours faster than me.

I am #20 with State Street and #2 with Ritz. Or so I have been told.
frustrated and just venting,
Didn't anyone else think my Jack Schitt link was funny?
Leah
I did like the Jack Schitt! =)

I have learned so much schitt since I joined DPR!

=0

Sam

--
Sam Pyrtle
F707 Lover
[email protected]

http://www3.photosig.com/viewuser.php?id=11179
 
Trick is to not let the desire to
see/own/buy/ etc the SD9 overide the logic of the situation.. it
will probably be 2003 before there is sufficient quantity to lay
your hands on one and by then the next round of "cameras coming out
and pre hype" will be underway. ....
this may be a case of over enthusiasm that has gone past the point of no return?

Sam has bought a heap of lenses for it ...
he's got more on order ....
there's a bunch of other accessories he's referred to ....
AND he's got several SD9s on pre-order ....
for goodness sake where's the logic in all that?
just my $0.02
Mike

BTW I'm sure having a bunch of hyper enthusiasts running around placing multiple pre-orders all around the place really helps a manufacturer make their early distribution plans effective too :-)
 
Sam! You have my respect!!
Perhaps Tom - like myself - needed some sort of 'cooling off' period.

I spoke to him again - and this time - things went better.

I told him I had posted a correction - explaining that he never
mentioned Foveon. And again offered my apologies.

I told him that I left that last conversation upset - and feeling bad.

He was much more polite this time - invited me to the Photo Plus
show - and to see him in NY at B&H, etc so I could play with the
SD9 (prototype).

So - our last conversation went much better.

I thought I would let you all know.

He, like myself, and like all of us I suppose, is doing the best he
can - and dealing with his own pressures.

I am glad I made that one final call - I feel better - and I think
he does to.

As for the delay - and what is behind it - I did not mention it
again. We will just have to continue to hope for the best. And I
am sure the production will catch up with the demand.

Thanks
Sam

--
Sam Pyrtle
F707 Lover
[email protected]

http://www3.photosig.com/viewuser.php?id=11179
--
Carl Rytterfalk
http://www.pbase.com/rytterfalk
Today Epson 850z - tomorrow Foveon!
 
Yep. Live and learn.

Take a tip from Phil, other reviewers, and the good folks who have some expertise in digging out factsoids on upcoming products: Never reveal your sources. Or as they say, don't kill the goose that lays the fully saturated, full pixel-level detailed golden egg. :-)
Two mistakes:

Tom at Sigma shouldn't so be openly with you. I suspect he is
rather junior. Anyone who has worked for a large corporation should
realize this already.

Secondly you should have protected his identity by not quoting his
name. Whatever you posted already put him in trouble because he
said more than what he is supposed to say.
--
Sam Pyrtle
F707 Lover
[email protected]

http://www3.photosig.com/viewuser.php?id=11179
--

Ulysses
Repository of Some of My Stuff
http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=4291269101

I'm an uncle!!!

 
Trick is to not let the desire to
see/own/buy/ etc the SD9 overide the logic of the situation.. it
will probably be 2003 before there is sufficient quantity to lay
your hands on one and by then the next round of "cameras coming out
and pre hype" will be underway. ....
this may be a case of over enthusiasm that has gone past the point
of no return?

Sam has bought a heap of lenses for it ...
A heap?

I have 3 lenses - a macro and 2 diff tele - less than a lot of canon and nikon users. I don't consider this a 'heap' - but if you do - that's okay by me.

And I do have the 1.4x tele also.
he's got more on order ....
No I don't actually.

I wouldn't mind a good wide-angle - but I am waiting to find one. No rush there.
there's a bunch of other accessories he's referred to ....
A bunch? I also have pre-ordered the new DG Super Flash. Since the SD9 does not include a built-in flash, I find this a 'logical' purchase.

So I am not sure what 'bunch' of accessories you are referrring to - and I certainly haven't ordered them.
AND he's got several SD9s on pre-order ....
for goodness sake where's the logic in all that?
I have 2 on pre-order. For better or for worse, I am just keeping my 2 fishing lines in the water - more likely to catch something. ;-)

But I do not have 3 pre-orders, or 4 pre-orders, etc. Just 2. But maybe that is 1 too many in your thoughts. And that's okay.
just my $0.02
Mike
Thanks for your opinions.
BTW I'm sure having a bunch of hyper enthusiasts running around
placing multiple pre-orders all around the place really helps a
manufacturer make their early distribution plans effective too :-)
I don't consider myself as hyper. Excited - yes!!!! For sure! But hyper? I don't see that. But to each his own.

=)
Sam

--
Sam Pyrtle
F707 Lover
[email protected]

http://www3.photosig.com/viewuser.php?id=11179
 
How about National Semiconductor? From what I understand, Foveon
just designed the chip, they aren't fabbing it. They're leaving
that to NS, who has a big investment in Foveon.
Some would consider that semantics. The quote was "sensor production delays" not "sensor fabrication delays". While the above may be true and NS may be having delays, someone still has to be the captain of the ship. So, others may argue that Foveon is still responsible for sensor production, even if they "hired" NS as their "subcontractor" to do the actual work.

I'm just looking at it from another perspective. Honestly, I could see it either way. I agree with another poster who said that it is likely that the person contacted at Sigma may have simply not had enough information to describe a delay, whether there would actually be one, and the cause of the delay. To get someone who is actually close enough to "production" in any of these large companies (by simply placing a call to them) is more difficult than some people might realize. If the person at Sigma actually had direct and accurate knowledge of any possible delays, other than the fact there might be one, I'd be surprised... and impressed.

Obviously, since Monday (even if you add reasonable shipping delays) is behind us, there is a delay in what was quoted for the release of the camera. The SD9 is certainly not the first camera to be delayed. It happens all the time. Often, the best way to handle a delay is to just wait for a reviewer to "officially" post something or (even better) just wait until they start showing up somewhere.

P.S. Looking at the "expected" arrival date on State Street Direct is also, historically, a poor indicator. SSD is known to bump their dates by one or two week at a time when the initial date passes, sometimes doing that 2, 3, 4 times.

I think it's probably better to just "chill" and wait until we hear more official news or just wait for the cameras to start trickling in rather than just give up and abandon what could be a breakthrough in digital photography. Delays can be very annoying and cause a lot of debate. While we all agree that companies should be responsible in the "promises" they make, some understanding on the part of the public is probably prudent as well, especially when talking about the release of a possible breakthrough product.

Just some thoughts...

--
Mike
http://www.ddisoftware.com
 
Perhaps Tom - like myself - needed some sort of 'cooling off' period.

I spoke to him again - and this time - things went better.

I told him I had posted a correction - explaining that he never
mentioned Foveon. And again offered my apologies.

I told him that I left that last conversation upset - and feeling bad.

He was much more polite this time - invited me to the Photo Plus
show - and to see him in NY at B&H, etc so I could play with the
SD9 (prototype).

So - our last conversation went much better.

I thought I would let you all know.

He, like myself, and like all of us I suppose, is doing the best he
can - and dealing with his own pressures.

I am glad I made that one final call - I feel better - and I think
he does to.

As for the delay - and what is behind it - I did not mention it
again. We will just have to continue to hope for the best. And I
am sure the production will catch up with the demand.

Thanks
Sam

--
Sam Pyrtle
F707 Lover
[email protected]

http://www3.photosig.com/viewuser.php?id=11179
--
Carl Rytterfalk
http://www.pbase.com/rytterfalk
Today Epson 850z - tomorrow Foveon!
--
Sam Pyrtle
F707 Lover
[email protected]

http://www3.photosig.com/viewuser.php?id=11179
 
Leah
Two mistakes:

Tom at Sigma shouldn't so be openly with you. I suspect he is
rather junior. Anyone who has worked for a large corporation should
realize this already.

Secondly you should have protected his identity by not quoting his
name. Whatever you posted already put him in trouble because he
said more than what he is supposed to say.
--
Sam Pyrtle
F707 Lover
[email protected]

http://www3.photosig.com/viewuser.php?id=11179
 
Sam,

Just to clarify I pray you know I never said anything about your excitement in ANY way. My comments were directed at those who want to examine each pixel magnified by 300%. And other part was regarding the people posting thier frustrations at the lack of SD9's to buy.. the Sigma proposed ship date had not even gotten here yet! Your excitement is totally justified and is what life is all about... enjoying it so please keep the excitement and enjoy :)) And when you get your SD9.. post post post !
Trick is to not let the desire to
see/own/buy/ etc the SD9 overide the logic of the situation.. it
will probably be 2003 before there is sufficient quantity to lay
your hands on one and by then the next round of "cameras coming out
and pre hype" will be underway. ....
this may be a case of over enthusiasm that has gone past the point
of no return?

Sam has bought a heap of lenses for it ...
A heap?

I have 3 lenses - a macro and 2 diff tele - less than a lot of
canon and nikon users. I don't consider this a 'heap' - but if you
do - that's okay by me.

And I do have the 1.4x tele also.
he's got more on order ....
No I don't actually.

I wouldn't mind a good wide-angle - but I am waiting to find one.
No rush there.
there's a bunch of other accessories he's referred to ....
A bunch? I also have pre-ordered the new DG Super Flash. Since
the SD9 does not include a built-in flash, I find this a 'logical'
purchase.

So I am not sure what 'bunch' of accessories you are referrring to
  • and I certainly haven't ordered them.
AND he's got several SD9s on pre-order ....
for goodness sake where's the logic in all that?
I have 2 on pre-order. For better or for worse, I am just keeping
my 2 fishing lines in the water - more likely to catch something.
;-)

But I do not have 3 pre-orders, or 4 pre-orders, etc. Just 2. But
maybe that is 1 too many in your thoughts. And that's okay.
just my $0.02
Mike
Thanks for your opinions.
BTW I'm sure having a bunch of hyper enthusiasts running around
placing multiple pre-orders all around the place really helps a
manufacturer make their early distribution plans effective too :-)
I don't consider myself as hyper. Excited - yes!!!! For sure!
But hyper? I don't see that. But to each his own.

=)
Sam

--
Sam Pyrtle
F707 Lover
[email protected]

http://www3.photosig.com/viewuser.php?id=11179
 
I figured that's what you meant -

No offense taken - at all.

You are correct - I do indeed feel like a little kid a Christmas. And it is kinda cool! Brings back the memories! HA!

I remember when I got my first computer - a Commodore VIC 20 - And I thought it was THE BEST THING IN THE WORLD!

I loved it! The anticipation is part of the lure you know! =)

And I was thinking - even if BOTH of my preorders come in, that would be okay. I might even keep them both. My partner and I both take shots together when we go out. And we sold his E-10 to help defray some of the cost for this SD9 system.

I have a Sony 707 - which I love. And would keep too. Small enough to take on bike rides, etc. So a little more portable than a dSLR and lenses. So it has it advantages - and I really like the pics I get from it.

But I know I am going to be very jealous of him using this camera more than me - and I can see a fight breaking out! ;-)

So maybe I need my own.

Who knows - we will see what happens.

Thanks for the post...

=)
Sam

--
Sam Pyrtle
F707 Lover
[email protected]

http://www3.photosig.com/viewuser.php?id=11179
 
The delay in the release of the SD9 is really not a surprise to me. It's Sigma's first DSLR. You need to realize that the big three (Kodak, Nikon, Canon) have been manufacturing DSLRs for at least 5 years. It is better that Sigma take their time & make sure they've got a reliable product.
In the trades we say, "Measure twice & cut once"

If Sigma release a faulty product, they'll never hear the end of it & will have an impossible time to bounce back.

I would like Sigma to have success with the SD9, but they've got a major challenge on their hands...their first release of a DSLR (using a sensor that's never been used before by anyone) without bugs to iron out!

Jules
I figured that's what you meant -

No offense taken - at all.

You are correct - I do indeed feel like a little kid a Christmas.
And it is kinda cool! Brings back the memories! HA!

I remember when I got my first computer - a Commodore VIC 20 - And
I thought it was THE BEST THING IN THE WORLD!

I loved it! The anticipation is part of the lure you know! =)

And I was thinking - even if BOTH of my preorders come in, that
would be okay. I might even keep them both. My partner and I both
take shots together when we go out. And we sold his E-10 to help
defray some of the cost for this SD9 system.

I have a Sony 707 - which I love. And would keep too. Small
enough to take on bike rides, etc. So a little more portable than
a dSLR and lenses. So it has it advantages - and I really like the
pics I get from it.

But I know I am going to be very jealous of him using this camera
more than me - and I can see a fight breaking out! ;-)

So maybe I need my own.

Who knows - we will see what happens.

Thanks for the post...

=)
Sam

--
Sam Pyrtle
F707 Lover
[email protected]

http://www3.photosig.com/viewuser.php?id=11179
 
Hello Samuel,

Thanks for those kind words about my "50-500mm" work.

Regarding that lens, it's my absolute favourite despite the weight and the dimentions.

I'm not a regular poster in this forum, more kind of a "lurker" at this time.
Now regarding Sigma ...
I'm a Canon D60 "shooter", having also a Nikon CP5700.
We at Belgium Digital have a pretty good relationship with Sigma Benelux.

The representant has promised us the first available SD-9 in the Benelux to do some testwork.
So, we're pretty keen to get that one ;-)))

Kind regards,
Jaja
http://www.belgiumdigital.com

Samuel Pyrtle wrote:
...
See Jaja's web page here - do you know him? He has a lot of good
stuff on his website. You will find him posting in the Olympus
forum and other forums. I have learned a lot from him. He has
taken a lot of photos with his 50-500mm and loves it. Here is his
web link:

http://www.belgiumdigital.com/

Click on the link and then click on the "BD Crew Albums" on the
left-hand side menu. Then click on the Canon D60. There, you will
see a lot of photos - with the 50-500 in several different
galleries.
...
 
He explained the circumstances of the phone call with great
detail... I don't think he is at fault. Someone in Tom's position
should know he will be quoted to others who are also interested
..."he said more than what he was suppose to say" (you-know-who).
Tom is not a press person, is he? It's clear that he didn't know he would be quoted on a well-read forum (world wide...). Can you blame him for being upset about that? Sam would have been wise by not revealing his name, because now he has lost his source.
 
sam it could be national semiconducter , those peeps are the chipmakers behind the foveon sensor

and sam i know tom he is a sweet guy , and would never mislead anyone
Well....

I just spoke to Tom again at Sigma - and he was really upset with me.

It appears that he feels I misquoted him in my inital conversation.
He says he has gotten in some trouble because of what I said. He
has not personally seen my initial post, but he is well aware of it.

Let me be VERY clear with everyone - including Tom should he read
this post.

Tom told me in my previous conversation, and I am quoting here,
"There is a delay in the sensor production and they are behind in
their shipment".

He says he did not mention FOVEON. And he is correct - he did not.

However - who else would be behind in this regard? Sigma?

I told Tom just now, on the phone: "Tom, you said to me that there
were delays in the sensor production - and you did not mention
Foveon. You are right and I am wrong. I am sorry that I misquoted
you. But if Foveon is not behind in the sensor production, then
who is?"

He just kind of did a "umm,,, ugh,,,, I don't have anything else
to add"

So what does that mean? Where is he trying to back peddle to?

Notice he didn't say "I never said there were sensor production
delays" - because he did say that. He simply will not say who is
behind the sensor manufacturing delay.

And I tell you what - he wasn't very nice. And I can understand
him being upset if he got into trouble - and I threw in the
Foveon name when he didn't. It was wrong on my part to mention
Foveon when he didn't. I made a 'logical assumption'. I
apologized PROFUSELY to him. I told him I would make a post to
correct my mistake. And I am doing so - right now.

However, he was not very nice - at the beginning or the end of the
conversation. He continued to be stand-offish.

So - he does not deny he said 'sensor production delays' - he just
denies he said "Foveon" was at fault. I agree.

But then the question is - who is behind the production delay?

I tell ya - I am really upset. I would never mis-quote on purpose.
I would never repeat something I thought was told to me in
confidence or that I thought would get someone else in trouble.

I am rethinking everything with Sigma now. I have already invested
over $2000 in lenses, etc - all useless without the camera. And I
do not expect Sigma to ship 3000 camera on the release date. Or
even 300. I expect the momentum to build somewhat over time. Just
as Tom indicated to me last week. So that is not an issue with
me.... I would like one sooner than later - but I can be patient.
And whatever the reason - sensor delay or not - in time, all will
be fine.

I am not Cleo - and do not read minds. I can only go on what I am
told. And I was wrong to assume 'Foveon' was behind it. For that,
I apologize - to Tom, Foveon, Phil (for having to double check me),
and all of you as well.

If Foveon is not the cause behind the delay, then who is? or what
is? And I wouldn't expect to be treated like some piriah by the
person who told them stuff in the first place. If there is some
delay - please explain it. Don't just say "ummm,,,,, ugh,,,,,".
Say it all - or say nothing.

And when someone makes a mistake (like I did by mentioning Foveon
when Tom didn't), and offers a very sincere apology, be gracious
enough to except it. Why continue to be rude?

I steaming -

I need to go and do some thinking.

-Sam

--
Sam Pyrtle
F707 Lover
[email protected]

http://www3.photosig.com/viewuser.php?id=11179
--
beam me up scotty

im giving it all shes got captain
 
tim every camera at times be4 its shipped has some initial trouble

but with canon or nikon its not so transparent because its not their first camera anymore, but i bet both companies had some trouble with thier first digital slr.. i am sure the sigma will deliver the goods ..just a little bit late
He says he did not mention FOVEON. And he is correct - he did not.

However - who else would be behind in this regard? Sigma?

I told Tom just now, on the phone: "Tom, you said to me that there
were delays in the sensor production - and you did not mention
Foveon. You are right and I am wrong. I am sorry that I misquoted
you. But if Foveon is not behind in the sensor production, then
who is?"
Doesn't this guy work on the marketing end of things ?

My guess would be that he is just some "nonsense" (bs) artist,
and he just figured that maybe the problem might be Foveon,
so he told you that, without realizing you were going to come
in here and repeat what he said, and that was going to end up
going back, full circle via Foveon, Inc ... back to his boss.

These people were saying June or July, when the receptionist
was saying September. In other words, the receptionist at Sigma
USA is the smartest person there. Maybe, perhaps.

The camera comes from Japan. That's where the real answers
are, I'd guess.

I would just forget about it. It's par for the course as far as
marketing types are concerned, in my opinion.
--
beam me up scotty

im giving it all shes got captain
 
sam it could be national semiconducter , those peeps are the
chipmakers behind the foveon sensor
That's what a few others have hinted about -

But either way, the SD9 will be here soon - and all we can do now is sit outside, on the porch, waiting for that &#%@ UPS truck to pull up!!!!

;-)
and sam i know tom he is a sweet guy , and would never mislead anyone
Although I have only spoken to him on the phone - albeit several times - I can agree with you here - he certainly is nice - and I also get the impression he would never mislead anyone on purpose either.

=)

Thanks
Sam

--
Sam Pyrtle
F707 Lover
[email protected]

http://www3.photosig.com/viewuser.php?id=11179
 

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