Online Portrait Class

gagefx said:

DEFINITELY my last in this thread, most likely my last in this forum.

Ther have been posts by thirteen different members. 6 have been
against me. 2 have been for Chuck, but not against me. 2 have been
unbiased. 3 have been in support of me - to an extent. I have
recieved email from 4 other members who did not participate but are
in support of me. SIX out of HOW MANY HUNDREDS of members are
against me? Needless to say, the backlash does not bother me. When
I read the responses it actually makes me feel good about my
position.

As for showing my work. - I have nothing to prove to any of you. I
have a rule that I dont display client work. You will not see it. I
dont accept dares and you cant goad me into it. Although it is not
my best work, I will gladly put my pbase galleries up as "my best
work" if that will make you happy. Feel free to compare that to
whatever you want and make judgments from there. Again, your
judgments mean nothing to me.

I'm not even going to read this thread anymore. It doesnt matter.
Realize, if I hadnt responded after my initial post, this thread
could have died with: Support for GageFX - 2, support for Chuck -
xxx. It doent matter to me how much support he gets. I have nothing
against him persoanlly, I just feel he is doing a disservice. well,
intended, MAYBE, but a disservice none the less. But NONE of us are
100% clear on his intentions. I believe he is trying to make
himself out as an expert FOR WHATEVER REASONS. I dont care. You all
believe he is just trying to help. That's fine. Listen to him if
you want, I merely stated my opinion and questoned him. Notice how
he sounds like much less of an expert once he's been called on it?

You may all debunch your panties. The big, bad, RAGEfx is going.
But you DIDNT win. You lost. You will NEVER understand it, but you
have. And although you will say I think I am great, I dont. Your
loss has nothing to do with my leaving, but everything to do with
your ignorance.

And for the record, although I thank the email support I've
recieved, I think the majority of people who have read this thread
are cowards. I put my @ss on the line and got it WHOOPED (but not
beat) in the name of speaking out and saying what needs to be said.
Sad there aren't many others that will do the same.

If anyone is interested in really understand how this started, it
is three little posts. Here they are in the order I posted them.
although I may be harsh without regard to FEELINGS, where am I
wrong?

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1025&message=3618681
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1025&message=3618715
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1025&message=3618727

Regards, and good learning to everyone, even those that disagree.

GageFX

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Paul Ferrara said:

Chuck, the nice thing about the web is that anyone can post
anything, even photography lessons. But there's not a single image
on your web site that is well lit. Don't take my word for it.
Post your best in the Print Room on zuga and see what kind of
feedback you get. Maybe Monte will even comment.

Paul
http://www.paulsportraits.com

gagefx said:

I'm not the DPR crusader, but I am getting pretty sick of bad advice.

No doubt this will tanish my rep, but that's something I'm willing
to live with.

GageFX

Chuck Gardner said:

There seems to be quite a few posters who are setting up home
studios and attempting portraits for the first time.

FYI - I have on a tutorial on posing, lighting, composition, etc.
on my web page which you may find helpful. It also covers basic
Photoshop editing, printer resolution and resampling, and color
mangagement.

http://super.nova.org/PhotoClass

Chuck Gardner

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gagefx said:

No doubt this will tanish my rep, but that's something I'm willing
to live with.

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Rembvrijn said:

Be civil - anyone being abusive, calling names or generally trying to stir up trouble will not be tolerated. If you think someone is wrong it may be because they are new, don't jump on them, think first. If you are repeatedly abusive you will be banned from these forums.

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gagefx said:

I'm not the DPR crusader, but I am getting pretty sick of bad advice.

GageFX

Chuck Gardner said:

There seems to be quite a few posters who are setting up home
studios and attempting portraits for the first time.

FYI - I have on a tutorial on posing, lighting, composition, etc.
on my web page which you may find helpful. It also covers basic
Photoshop editing, printer resolution and resampling, and color
mangagement.

http://super.nova.org/PhotoClass

Chuck Gardner

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Pat Filice said:

Gagefx,

While I do think you were a bit harsh in your comments to Chuck, I
can appreciate where you are coming from. In the end, do you
really think this all matters though? Chuck is graciously
providing some free learning tools for beginning photographers.
The information is actually quite accurate. It is clearly not
intended as an exposition on the ins and outs of portraiture or
photography.

I would venture to say that a beginner who reads it may very well
be intrigued and compelled to learn further. This would, I can
only imagine, lead him to other works such as Monte's and other
experienced and established photography authors. Isn't this a good
thing for amatuer photography? The potential downside, however, is
that a beginner never goes beyond Chuck's information and is
limited to only that information. But whose fault is that? Is it
Chuck's or is it the reader who refuses to read other material?

I am a budding amatuer photographer myself. I started getting
intrigued by the subject by reading information such as Chuck's.
Such information piqued my interest and drove me to dozens upon
dozens of other photography books. I am slowly becoming better and
better at everything I do with the camera now. Recently, I
enrolled in the New York Institute of Photography program and am
learning a tremendous amount. My point by all of this: It never
never never hurts to read more and it is the resposibility of the
budding photographer to use multiple resources to develop his
knowledge and skill. An amatuer who would be foolish enough to
JUST listen to Chuck and not go elsewhere for verification and more
information is irresposible. Chuck cannot be blamed for such
irresponsibility.

I agree with you very strongly on one point that is implied, if not
implicitly stated in your post, however. Students should
definately ascertain the credentials of the author of an article or
posting. This is particulary true on the Internet. They can then
make an intelligent decision on the merits of the information
contained therein. If it is by a professional who is well known in
the industry, it will likely be better and more reliable
information. If it is by an amatuer with limited experience such
as Chuck, it may be of lesser credibility and value. BUT, it may
be useful to the reader nonetheless.

You also point out that "if you aren't qualified to teach it,
don't". I am not too sure if this is a realistic attitude. Are
you aware that potentially 80-90% of the school teachers in North
America are technically "not qualified to teach it". School
teachers go to teachers college and more times than not, they are
teaching subjects to children in grade school that bear no
resemblence to what they actually studied in college. Does this
make them incompetent? Does this take away from what they can
possibly teach students? I honestly think not. Beginners in any
field can always learn from others, whether it be true experienced
and qualified professionals or from less experienced but well
meaning individuals.

I think Chuck should be commended for his work. He is obviously
not some lazy slob who sits on his laurels but tries to help others
with the imformation, however limited, that he has. If he is
trying to pass himself off as a Master in the field, that is
clearly wrong, but I don't think he did or meant to do such.

These are just my two cents worth. I don't think I have offended
anyone and apologize if I inadvertently did do so.

Have a great day everyone.

Pat Filice

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gagefx said:

I put my @ss on the line

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Chuck Gardner said:

I'd like to thank everyone for the kind words of encouragement and
support over the past few days. I've just finished updating the
intro for the tutorial to make it clear that I do not profess to be
an expert and explain why it came into being in the first place. I
also corrected my aggrieveous error with regard to describing
lighting of the two-winged genre.

In retrospect I erred in posting the link in the lighting forum
withoout making it clear that the main point of the class was to
illustrate that you don't need fancy and expensive gear to take
pretty decent pictures. The original target audience I was a group
of people in Manila -- mostly beginners with point and shoot 35mms
interested in digital -- who asked me to give a class with a live
model to illustrate some tips I had been posting in a local
photography newsgroup. I got Kodak Philippines to sponsor it (I was
using a DC290 ) but there wasn't time or a budget to print class
notes so I put them on the web. I readily admit the illustrations
are pretty lousy, but it was put together on short notice only a
few months after I got my camera and I didn't have many photos
available. I also didn't have any lighting equipment. I shot the
studio stuff in my conference room at work, using my admin. manager
as the model. The posing and lighting stuff was just to make the
students aware of the concepts and terminology. They also couldn't
afford studio lights. so the daylight technique was geared towards
giving them techniques they were capable of doing with available
resources. I erred in not explaining that when posting the link in
the DPReview lighting forum.

The web page was intended as a study guide so the students could
concentrate on what I was demonstrating with the live model instead
of taking a bunch of notes in class. In the actual class I set up
different poses, then let the students photograph it. We then
critiqued the projected photos together and I let the students tell
me how they could be improved using the guidelines we covered. In
the afternoon we edited the morning session photos in PhotoShop.
The classroom had 20 workstations so the students got to do it
hands-on. No one came away proficient in anything, but horizons
were broadened and even the couple of seasoned pros in attendance
said they learned a few new things like the instant facelift posing
trick.

Again, thanks for your support.

Gage, thanks for giving this thread legs man. First one I've had
in the HOT!!! category. No hard feelings. I accept that I'm
unworthy in your eyes. I can live with that. Life is too short and
the sniper is still in the neighborhood...

Chuck Gardner

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