LCD or CRT Monitor?

Tony Reynolds · Oct 21, 2002

I've researched the threads regarding recommendations of CRT versus LCD monitors, and have to say that it looks like the opinions seem to be split right down the middle, so I thought I'd turn to my friends here in the Minolta Forum...

I have a Dimage 7i, so I'm obviously into quality images. My faithful MAG DX17f 17" monitor is on its last legs; the screen has started to get slightly fuzzy. I swore that the next monitor I'd get would be flat screen LCD because I want the desk space back, but after weeks of research, I'm still no closer to a decision.

I can get a 19" MAG LCD at Tigerdirect.com for US$499 after a $50 rebate, which seems fabulous to me: nearly as much screen area as the Dell 21" CRT (Trinitron) I use at work.

I can get a really excellent 19" CRT that will run 1600x1200 at 75Hz for half that.

The things that I'm worried about with the LCD's are:

1. Color calibration or lack of it.
2. Warranty for dead pixels, something CRT's never have.
3. Ability to drive "non-native" resolutions.
4. Contrast and color.
5. Cost: i.e. "bang for the buck".

I would like a UXGA LCD (1600x1200), but they're still very expensive, while a 1600x1200 CRT is readily available for US$250 or less.

Does anyone have any opinions either way? I would be willing to spend up to $600 for a 17" or 18" LCD if I was certain that it would suit my needs for photo editing, but I may be happier at 1/3 the cost for a CRT, especially since I use AutoCAD a lot and need all the screen real estate I can get for menus (even worse than Adobe.)

Does anyone know of a good SHORT THROW 19" CRT Pure Flat that will run 1600x1200 native at 85Hz? Short throw tubes take up less desk space.

Trinitron Aperture Grill or Invar Shadow Mask? (I've been using the Dell for three years and the wires in the Trinitron tube don't bother me...)

Any help would be appreciated. Right now, I'm going to hit the sack; it's been a long hard day here in Seattle...

Thanks!

Tony Reynolds

syberascal · Oct 21, 2002

Tony,

Last February, I had a similar decision to make. I ended up getting lucky and I found a new 19 inch Dell Trinitron monitor for $289 (free shipping from Dell). I have been extremely happy with its performance -- a very sharp picture and amazing color. Just other day, a friend commented how sharp and great the picture appeared to him.

Other than the price consideration, the color range on a CRT monitor is better than a LCD. To verify this claim, I placed my Mom's Dell LCD next to my CRT -- the CRT appeared to have a better resolution and color range. Many people would say LCD versus CRT is personal choice, and I would whole heartly agree with them.

At this point in time, I don't think you beat the value or bang for the buck a CRT gives you. If you don't mind the extra space and heat a CRT gives you, I think a CRT provides you a better picture at a cost with well within your budget. Personally, I plan to use my CRT until better LCD color screens appear or plasma screens drop dramatically in price.

Good luck with your decision.

Tony Reynolds said:
I've researched the threads regarding recommendations of CRT versus
LCD monitors, and have to say that it looks like the opinions seem
to be split right down the middle, so I thought I'd turn to my
friends here in the Minolta Forum...

I have a Dimage 7i, so I'm obviously into quality images. My
faithful MAG DX17f 17" monitor is on its last legs; the screen has
started to get slightly fuzzy. I swore that the next monitor I'd
get would be flat screen LCD because I want the desk space back,
but after weeks of research, I'm still no closer to a decision.

I can get a 19" MAG LCD at Tigerdirect.com for US$499 after a $50
rebate, which seems fabulous to me: nearly as much screen area as
the Dell 21" CRT (Trinitron) I use at work.

I can get a really excellent 19" CRT that will run 1600x1200 at
75Hz for half that.

The things that I'm worried about with the LCD's are:

1. Color calibration or lack of it.
2. Warranty for dead pixels, something CRT's never have.
3. Ability to drive "non-native" resolutions.
4. Contrast and color.
5. Cost: i.e. "bang for the buck".

I would like a UXGA LCD (1600x1200), but they're still very
expensive, while a 1600x1200 CRT is readily available for US$250 or
less.

Does anyone have any opinions either way? I would be willing to
spend up to $600 for a 17" or 18" LCD if I was certain that it
would suit my needs for photo editing, but I may be happier at 1/3
the cost for a CRT, especially since I use AutoCAD a lot and need
all the screen real estate I can get for menus (even worse than
Adobe.)

Does anyone know of a good SHORT THROW 19" CRT Pure Flat that will
run 1600x1200 native at 85Hz? Short throw tubes take up less desk
space.

Trinitron Aperture Grill or Invar Shadow Mask? (I've been using the
Dell for three years and the wires in the Trinitron tube don't
bother me...)

Any help would be appreciated. Right now, I'm going to hit the
sack; it's been a long hard day here in Seattle...

Thanks!

Tony Reynolds

Lee Tung · Oct 22, 2002

Hi,

I just changed my computer setup from Monitor to LCD display. At that moment I was searching around in the market, I found that most low to middle end LCD displays are not as good as my old 17" Sony monitor. However, after spending a lot of time in shops & comparing every LCDs & Monitors, I found that the samsung LCDs is quite good & I bought the Samsung Syncmaster 172T LCD Display.

After a five minutes setup, I switched on my computer & I was blown away by it's quality. I am totally satisified with it. When comparing it with my Sony monitor side by side, I found that I had made a good decision. The samsung is really sharp, the color is rich. The visual quality is still quite good even I switched into 800 X 600 mode in gaming.

Ok, Lcd has it's weakness, viewing angle, response time, price, for example. However, after I brought my new LCD display, I am not willing to switch back to Monitor again.

Prevent the cheaper displays if you want a LCD display which is as good as a monitor. The samsung displays may be a good choices although they always come with a higher prices.

Tung

Tony Reynolds said:
I've researched the threads regarding recommendations of CRT versus
LCD monitors, and have to say that it looks like the opinions seem
to be split right down the middle, so I thought I'd turn to my
friends here in the Minolta Forum...

I have a Dimage 7i, so I'm obviously into quality images. My
faithful MAG DX17f 17" monitor is on its last legs; the screen has
started to get slightly fuzzy. I swore that the next monitor I'd
get would be flat screen LCD because I want the desk space back,
but after weeks of research, I'm still no closer to a decision.

I can get a 19" MAG LCD at Tigerdirect.com for US$499 after a $50
rebate, which seems fabulous to me: nearly as much screen area as
the Dell 21" CRT (Trinitron) I use at work.

I can get a really excellent 19" CRT that will run 1600x1200 at
75Hz for half that.

The things that I'm worried about with the LCD's are:

1. Color calibration or lack of it.
2. Warranty for dead pixels, something CRT's never have.
3. Ability to drive "non-native" resolutions.
4. Contrast and color.
5. Cost: i.e. "bang for the buck".

I would like a UXGA LCD (1600x1200), but they're still very
expensive, while a 1600x1200 CRT is readily available for US$250 or
less.

Does anyone have any opinions either way? I would be willing to
spend up to $600 for a 17" or 18" LCD if I was certain that it
would suit my needs for photo editing, but I may be happier at 1/3
the cost for a CRT, especially since I use AutoCAD a lot and need
all the screen real estate I can get for menus (even worse than
Adobe.)

Does anyone know of a good SHORT THROW 19" CRT Pure Flat that will
run 1600x1200 native at 85Hz? Short throw tubes take up less desk
space.

Trinitron Aperture Grill or Invar Shadow Mask? (I've been using the
Dell for three years and the wires in the Trinitron tube don't
bother me...)

Any help would be appreciated. Right now, I'm going to hit the
sack; it's been a long hard day here in Seattle...

Thanks!

Tony Reynolds

Lucio Cicuto · Oct 22, 2002

I made this decision a few months ago myself and ended up with a Viewsonic 19" CRT http://www.viewsonic.com/products/crt_p95fplusb.htm . Roughly and 18" cube in size. Not too bad.

I work of a laptop LCD display all day long and my biggest issue, even more so than those you mention, was how color, brightness, contrast, etc all change by moving your head several inches left, right, up or down. I wasn't ready to calibrate my head/eyes to the LCD every time I sat down in front of it.

LCD technology has come a LONG way from where it was but feel we're still a few years from matching CRT quality.

I also haven't seen an affordable LCD that will do 1600x1200. The only one I saw at a store was the Apple 22" flat panel LCD at $2,500 US http://www.apple.com/displays/acd23/ . Hardly affordable.

Lucio Cicuto

Jeff/UK · Oct 22, 2002

i've got an NEC MultiSync LCD1700V and there is no way it can be compared to a laptop lcd. my NEC is 17" viewable and has much better off angle clarity and the brightness blows away my toshiba laptop screen. one definite plus to the LCD is it's flatness and i find i have to almost fall out of my chair to get my head far enough off axis to make any sort of a big difference in the appearance.

after 10 years in the high end CAD/CAM business and subjecting myself to every major brand of workstation and associated moniters, I find LCD's are my personal preference. our guys do demos to groups of people all the time and there is never a problem with visibility at an angle with the LCD's.

Lucio Cicuto said:
I made this decision a few months ago myself and ended up with a
Viewsonic 19" CRT
http://www.viewsonic.com/products/crt_p95fplusb.htm . Roughly and
18" cube in size. Not too bad.

I work of a laptop LCD display all day long and my biggest issue,
even more so than those you mention, was how color, brightness,
contrast, etc all change by moving your head several inches left,
right, up or down. I wasn't ready to calibrate my head/eyes to the
LCD every time I sat down in front of it.

LCD technology has come a LONG way from where it was but feel we're
still a few years from matching CRT quality.

I also haven't seen an affordable LCD that will do 1600x1200. The
only one I saw at a store was the Apple 22" flat panel LCD at
$2,500 US http://www.apple.com/displays/acd23/ . Hardly affordable.

Lucio Cicuto

--
Minolta D7i
http://www.pbase.com/ukbuckeye
http://www.nickyandjeff.dsl.pipex.com/weather/weather.htm

Lucio Cicuto · Oct 22, 2002

Well, I must have been looking at the wrong LCDs because when I went shopping I saw the same problem on all the desktop panels I saw. I agree to a lesser degree than the laptop LCD in front of me right now.

If the NEC you have doesn't have same characteristics then that's great. I must have missed that one.

Lucio

Jeff/UK said:
after 10 years in the high end CAD/CAM business and subjecting
myself to every major brand of workstation and associated moniters,
I find LCD's are my personal preference. our guys do demos to
groups of people all the time and there is never a problem with
visibility at an angle with the LCD's.

Lucio Cicuto said:

I made this decision a few months ago myself and ended up with a
Viewsonic 19" CRT
http://www.viewsonic.com/products/crt_p95fplusb.htm . Roughly and
18" cube in size. Not too bad.

I work of a laptop LCD display all day long and my biggest issue,
even more so than those you mention, was how color, brightness,
contrast, etc all change by moving your head several inches left,
right, up or down. I wasn't ready to calibrate my head/eyes to the
LCD every time I sat down in front of it.

LCD technology has come a LONG way from where it was but feel we're
still a few years from matching CRT quality.

I also haven't seen an affordable LCD that will do 1600x1200. The
only one I saw at a store was the Apple 22" flat panel LCD at
$2,500 US http://www.apple.com/displays/acd23/ . Hardly affordable.

Lucio Cicuto

Click to expand...

--
Minolta D7i
http://www.pbase.com/ukbuckeye
http://www.nickyandjeff.dsl.pipex.com/weather/weather.htm

--
Lucio Cicuto

Auke Nauta · Oct 22, 2002

Hi Tony,

As a professional digital imaging engineer I can tell you this:

If its colour gamut your after, then simply get a CRT, for instance the excellent 19' Iiyama HM903DT (Also known as Vision Master Pro 454).
It is very good at a very very reasonable price.
The latest model 903DA could be even slightly better...

OK, back to my story:

In my job I regularly calibrate and profile both CRT and LCD monitors. Careful examiniation of the ICC profiles reveals:

LCD screens generally are quite week in saturation, they cannot display bright reds and greens properly.

We have a special sRGB file which we use to determine the colour reproducibility of the monitors (in combination with home made colour matching software).

In case of LCD screens often the average deltaE (difference in colour value of sRGB file and reproduction by monitor) is 5 or 6, somtimes larger.
Delta E's in the green / red area's may rize to > 30!

This is unacceptable if your very keen on colour reproduction: the device will not be able to show you the colours of the image...

Contrary, the ageing Philips 109S I'm using has an average deltaE of just 3, maxing out at 16 (for Red 255,0,0 or L 54, a 80, b 69).

More recent monitors often can show the complete sRGB colur space flawlessy, with average deltaE's of

Of course, here I did not (and will not) discuss other items relating to LCDCRT such as viewing angle, refresh rate and so on.

I hope this info can help you somewhat further.

Greetings,
Auke Nauta

Tony Reynolds · Oct 22, 2002

I thank-you all for your replies.

As usual, the Minolta group is informed and has good information to contribute.

I believe that my decision is to get a good 19" CRT, use it for two or three years and see what's out then. (Hopefully 19-20" 1600x1200 for US$500-600...)

I was talking with a friend this morning, and thought that I might get a cheap 15" LCD to supplement the 19" CRT to put my menus on, which would be especially helpful for Adobe apps, but probably also for AutoCAD. Of course I will have to get a better video card, one that has dual outputs.

Any suggestions?

Tony

Gordon Chau65853 · Oct 22, 2002

Dear Auke

Very interesting.

As part of a group who has been dwelling into the issue of colour accuracy and colour space of the D7 series camera, I would like to know if there is any good CRT monitors which can display a wider gamut than sRGB? How about the best of LCD and plasma screens? I take it that you said most home use LCDs would dispaly a gamut far narrower than sRGB, correct?

Gordon Chau

John Hetzler · Oct 22, 2002

I'm using a Sony Multiscan G400 and an ATI Radeon 64 Mb VIVO and love the combination. Using two monitors would be a plus. Some guys at work use that combination: an LCD display for the text and stuff and a nice CRT for the graphics. Personally, I find the LCD displays outclassed by CRTs for photographic color presentation. There is only one viewing "hot-spot" where the colors are close to accurate.

On some computers, you've got an on-board video chip, so you just add another video card. Depending on your O/S, you could just put in two video cards.

John

Tony Reynolds said:
I thank-you all for your replies.

As usual, the Minolta group is informed and has good information to
contribute.

I believe that my decision is to get a good 19" CRT, use it for two
or three years and see what's out then. (Hopefully 19-20" 1600x1200
for US$500-600...)

I was talking with a friend this morning, and thought that I might
get a cheap 15" LCD to supplement the 19" CRT to put my menus on,
which would be especially helpful for Adobe apps, but probably also
for AutoCAD. Of course I will have to get a better video card, one
that has dual outputs.

Any suggestions?

Tony

Auke Nauta · Oct 23, 2002

Gordon Chau said:
Dear Auke

Very interesting.

As part of a group who has been dwelling into the issue of colour
accuracy and colour space of the D7 series camera, I would like to
know if there is any good CRT monitors which can display a wider
gamut than sRGB?

Well, actually, no.

Some newer models are very good, but none reach to the Adobe 98 colour space, for instance.

But don't be disappointed, modern CRT monitors do a fine job in image reproduction!

Gordon Chau65853 said:
How about the best of LCD and plasma screens? I
take it that you said most home use LCDs would dispaly a gamut far
narrower than sRGB, correct?

Correct!

Auke

AMK · Oct 23, 2002

Tony, rab a copy of PC Photo magazine (November) and check out page 16: Getting Slim. I have never found a LCD that could better my Sony G400 (except in size). Incidentally. the undisputed champ for 2D is still the Matrox video card.

AMK · Oct 23, 2002

Sorry, I meant: Grab a copy.

AMK said:
Tony, rab a copy of PC Photo magazine (November) and check out page
16: Getting Slim. I have never found a LCD that could better my
Sony G400 (except in size). Incidentally. the undisputed champ for
2D is still the Matrox video card.

theswede #100093 · Oct 23, 2002

A $500 LCD monitor will be awful. You need to budget at least twice that to get an LCD that even gets close to a $300 CRT. Probably even more.

A good LCD beats a good CRT any day, but at about ten times the price. Cheap LCD's are ok for everyday use, but do not have nearly the quality of a CRT.

MAG are generally low contrast and do not have very good color range, even for LCD's. You'll be a lot happier with a good CRT.

--
Jesper

richard dunn102680 · Oct 23, 2002

Tony Reynolds said:
I was talking with a friend this morning, and thought that I might
get a cheap 15" LCD to supplement the 19" CRT to put my menus on,
which would be especially helpful for Adobe apps, but probably also
for AutoCAD. Of course I will have to get a better video card, one
that has dual outputs.

Any suggestions?

Tony

I have used twin monitor setups since win98 first supported them. Then it was on 2 grraphics cards (fun not!). Now I use dual head cards like the ATI Radeon range - a cheap 7500, etc does the job nicely.

Monitor sizes.

I reckon an ideal setup is one large monitor, one smaller. Currently mine are 19" and 17". I did try running 2 19" screens at one time but found it to be too big and you physicaly had to keep moving your head.

Twin monitor setups are invaluable, you can run a web browser 800x600 size on the one screen to preview say a website that you are creating on the other screen.

I also have a TV tuner in the computer which I often leave on the smaller monitor whilst working on the larger.

I have some crazy 2 monitors screen prints I did to show the power. I will resize and post them up.

Regards

Richard

richard dunn102680 · Oct 23, 2002

Screen picture of a desktop running 2 monitors and a few applications.

Regards

Richard

Tony Reynolds · Oct 23, 2002

John:

I did some research and the consensis seeems to be the the Matrox G450 Dual Head may be the card to get. It has dual out puts with 16MB going to each analog out and it can drive a combination of analog/DVI monitors. Sucks at games, but I don't play games on my PC, so 2D acceleration is all I care about.

My current plan is to look seriously at the Sony 420 19" and a cheap 15" LCD for menus.

Tony

John Hetzler said:
On some computers, you've got an on-board video chip, so you just
add another video card. Depending on your O/S, you could just put
in two video cards.

John

Tony Reynolds said:

I thank-you all for your replies.

As usual, the Minolta group is informed and has good information to
contribute.

I believe that my decision is to get a good 19" CRT, use it for two
or three years and see what's out then. (Hopefully 19-20" 1600x1200
for US$500-600...)

I was talking with a friend this morning, and thought that I might
get a cheap 15" LCD to supplement the 19" CRT to put my menus on,
which would be especially helpful for Adobe apps, but probably also
for AutoCAD. Of course I will have to get a better video card, one
that has dual outputs.

Any suggestions?

Tony

Click to expand...

Tony Reynolds · Oct 23, 2002

Jesper:

Thanks.

I thought this thread died yesterday, but I'm glad to see the additional input.

Since I can't justify $1500 for a decent LCD (19" UXGA), I think your advice is well-taken...

Thanks again to all!

Tony

theswede said:
A $500 LCD monitor will be awful. You need to budget at least twice
that to get an LCD that even gets close to a $300 CRT. Probably
even more.

A good LCD beats a good CRT any day, but at about ten times the
price. Cheap LCD's are ok for everyday use, but do not have nearly
the quality of a CRT.

MAG are generally low contrast and do not have very good color
range, even for LCD's. You'll be a lot happier with a good CRT.

--
Jesper

Jeff/UK · Oct 23, 2002

just did some playing and i'll clarify a bit:

side to side i really do have to move my head a lot to get contrast changes but up and down is a lot more sensitive. luckily i tend to stay pretty fixed in my sitting position - too many years of lazy posture at a CAD scope forces me to pay attention now or else my neck is shot for weeks LOL.

could also be my eyes not trained/calibrated/sensitive yet.... only relative newbie to proper home digital darkroom and printing work and i might change my mind if i find i have to always do multiple prints because moniter not up to scratch.

Roy A. Mayes · Oct 23, 2002

I've been running three monitors for a while now.

Extreme? yes, but I like it and I did it because I could (I already had the equipment).

I am running a 22" Mitsubishi and two 17" View Sonics.

My setup:

Some folks worry about post processing photos from the D7i.

With my computer setup, it is one of the main reasons I like having a digital camera.

==============

Tony Reynolds said:
Thanks.

I thought this thread died yesterday, but I'm glad to see the
additional input.

Since I can't justify $1500 for a decent LCD (19" UXGA), I think
your advice is well-taken...

Thanks again to all!

Tony

theswede said:

A $500 LCD monitor will be awful. You need to budget at least twice
that to get an LCD that even gets close to a $300 CRT. Probably
even more.

A good LCD beats a good CRT any day, but at about ten times the
price. Cheap LCD's are ok for everyday use, but do not have nearly
the quality of a CRT.

MAG are generally low contrast and do not have very good color
range, even for LCD's. You'll be a lot happier with a good CRT.

--
Jesper

Click to expand...

--
D7i
http://www.pbase.com/roymayes

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