HS-10 - Full Zoom ...

Hi Dave, thanks for the comparison. The test is robust enough for me to suggest that what we have experienced with this camera with IS is not the saving grace handheld it is thought to be. ie; dont' expect 3 or more stops of gain.
... Thanks. Glad you found it useful.
Your shots were in very good to bright light and the objects were static and you still wouldn't go below 1/200. I was having trouble shooting in good to fading light, sometimes moving subjects and getting results like your 1/125 shots and wondering why the images are so poor.

Typically shooting in P mode and camera sets the shutter speed. The shutter speed chosen by the camera was less than 1/100s at ISO 100 or 200.

In poor light this really is about blur or noise. To get the shutter speed up you need to boost the ISO level however above 800 (stretching it a lot) the noise is an issue. I did some tests where I took control in fading light (it appeared as plenty of light was left) abut needed to shoot at ISO 1600 to get exposure right. At ISO 1600 the noise was as fatal as the blur. Both probably bad as each other. Incidentaly, in P mode the camera was selecting approx 1/70 or thereabouts at ISO 100 or 200. You should choose noise I suppose because blur is probably more fatal but the blur is only slight, off putting enough to know something doesn't seem right.
Blur is not fixable, noise is.

I would never hesitate to shoot at ISO 400 (Jpeg or Raw) or to shoot ISO 800 in Raw. Mostly, I have the camera set to ISO 400 (Auto) and find that works in most situations.

I haven't played with ISO 1600 enough to see the output. As mentioned in a prior post - Out of 4,200 images to date, only 30 were at ISO 1600. This was from when I was playing around with SR Auto, I think. Of those, some were OK.
I think there is a message in this thread for users of this camera and those who critique this camera's images. For those lazy like me you need to take control at some point and don't let the camera decide because it can make poor decisions.
That you do. Any/every camera performs best if you drive it.
Also, I have stuck to liveview because I hate the EVF with a passion. This makes me less inclined to get a good pic.
Ever thought about a monopod ? I'm trying to get one. With a quick release plate, they can be detached in an instant.

We have a half dozen small camera shops in town - None has a monopod though !!

Might have to take a trip to the 'Big Mango'.

Cheers.
--
Apologies if my lack of photographic knowledge is catching.
--
Rgds, Dave.
Have fun - take lotsa pix.

My HS10 Stuff - http://www.pixplanet.biz/Posting-stuff_HS10_00.htm
My S100 fs Stuff - http://www.pixplanet.biz/Posting-stuff_5.htm
My F200 EXR Stuff - http://www.pixplanet.biz/pixplanet-other_stuff_2.htm
 
Thanks for the tests and samples. Very informative.
--
Just a Pixelpusher, currently shooting Fujifilm Finepix HS10
 
It's interesting in that I think that it solved the mystery of why DPR's IS tests showed so many cameras doing extremely well at maximum focal length, including shots at 1/30 and 1/15.
I didn't follow. What are you seeing?
See if you can guess why the slow shutter speeds did much better than I expected.
No, tell me. They are overexposed by the time you get to the slower speeds.

--
Apologies if my lack of photographic knowledge is catching.
 
To summarise what came out :

1/125 - 0/3 images usable.
1/200 - 1/3 images usable.
1/400 - 2/3 images usable (third was about 90%)
1/1000 - 3/3 images usable.
As I said earlier, I would think a shutter speed which is one third of the focal length suffices. For example, a focal length of 600 mm would equate to a shutter speed of 1/200. I find this works for me, and I am probably less steady than many of you.
I personally think it's the opposite way around. I think you are steady than most, rather than less steadier than most. I have seen a very sharp shot taken with your f200 at 1/7s at 28mm. Not alone is that a very slow shutter speed, it is 2 stops under the focal rule and shooting with outstrecthed arms which is a very unsteady position. Seems like steadyness is not one of the chinks in your armour. Take that as a compliment.
l--
Stephen
 
It's interesting in that I think that it solved the mystery of why DPR's IS tests showed so many cameras doing extremely well at maximum focal length, including shots at 1/30 and 1/15.
I didn't follow. What are you seeing?
See if you can guess why the slow shutter speeds did much better than I expected.
No, tell me. They are overexposed by the time you get to the slower speeds.
Ignore the exposure for now, I'll get to it below. This was just a test of the effectiveness of the IS. Look at the results DPR got when it tested the HS10 and the other megazoom cameras at their maximum focal lengths. Many of them produced some blur free shots at the slowest speed tested, 1/15th sec., and many blur free shots at 1/30th sec., when according to most people here as well as DPR's own statement that IS provides an improvement of about 2 stops. But a 2 stop improvement means that at 720mm, shots taken with shutter speeds slower than 1/180th second should start showing blur and the results should be very blurred for most shots at 4 stops below 1/720th second, which is 1/45th sec. The shots I took didn't show much of a difference in blur over the range of shutter speeds tested, 1/30, 1/60, 1/125, 1/250, 1/500 and 1/100 sec. What I did was that even though I took all of the shots hand-held I did rest the heel of one hand on a windowsill since for most handheld shots I always try to use some additional support, whether it's the side of a pole, tree branch, etc. I really was surprised that the expected blurriness wasn't there, even at 1/30th sec. since even with the support, the small rectangular focus indicator moved constantly, never stopping for any of the shots.

I just took some additional shots, this time hand-held with no support. The results were noticeably worse at the two slowest shutter speeds (1/30 and today I added 1/15) but the 1/60 and 1/125 sec. shots were still very good. This time I took 3 shots at each shutter speed instead of 2 and this turned out to be a good decision since the percentage of noticeably blurred shots increased, but at each shutter speed above 1/30th sec. there was at least one good, blur free photo. Had I take a few shots with the 1/40 and 1/50 shutter speed, and if either of these also resulted in good, relatively blur free images, that would have been an IS improvement of 4 stops, well above what most people get from the HS10's IS. So I guess that even though my age is quite a bit beyond Lloydy, I can hold the HS10 steadily enough for a reasonable percentage of shots to show about 3 1/2 stops of IS improvement. It did take a lot of concentration, so I'd try to avoid shooting 720mm at 1/60th sec. and probably would use 1/125th second and faster, aperture and ISO permitting.

I also discovered two reasons for some of yesterday's shots being overexposed. I had used Multi Metering, not spot, and much of the frame outside of the central cropped area was fairly dark, including the tree leaves on the right side of the frame. This can be seen in the one full size image that was posted. For today's shots I also used Multi Metering but at this time of the day (much earlier, about 9am vs 6pm) the formerly dark areas were brighter, and the tree leaves were much brighter since unlike yesterday's shots, they were now exposed to bright sunlight. The second reason is that I discovered that in Shutter Priority mode the aperture doesn't close down below f/8.0. Today I used ISO 100 instead of ISO 200 and by using Manual mode I was able to reduce the aperture to f/11. A little more work, but this way I was able to get more uniform exposures.

These are some of today's shots :

[1/125 sec]






[1/60th sec]




[1/30th sec]




[1/15th sec]


 
That looks good. The shot at 1/60th is just starting to show signs and is probably a fraction better than what I am seeing. It is what I mean by the camera being slightly OOF, that slight blur. Not enough to say blur but enough to say not sharp enough, something wrong with the camera. Lloydy's initial photographs showed it well too. The metal patterned object, at 1/125th (I think) it was a bit past what I call slightly OOF. What it really means is the camera is fine, I and a lot of others expect too much from it re stabilisation. Don't let the shutter speed drop below 1/100th but maybe even faster 1/200.

My other issue was speed. I don't have time for two or three shots when shooting birds. So write speeds, shooting RAW for IQ and general focus abilities of the cam really make it a liability. Shooting Landscapes and flora, better, but I don't necessarily need 720mm for that.

--
Apologies if my lack of photographic knowledge is catching.
 
My other issue was speed. I don't have time for two or three shots when shooting birds. So write speeds, shooting RAW for IQ and general focus abilities of the cam really make it a liability. Shooting Landscapes and flora, better, but I don't necessarily need 720mm for that.
I find that using burst mode works. If you use AF set to continuous and set the camera to burst mode you get 7 shots very quickly. I use this for sports or where movement is the object at hand. Use medium ISO and fast shutter speeds and you can freeze frame the action. Takes a little practice but it works. I'm hopefully going to a local hockey match tomorrow, will be doing quite a bit at extended zoom. Will post the results here if it doesnt rain and wash the match out.
 
Burst mode has its prupose and can be used to reduce blur but the real problem is we are trying to use the camera beyonds its capability, particularly handheld and definitely if using liveview. The message is to be careful shutter speed does not get low wrt focal length. For long end 1/100th is pushing it, Bill shows you can possibly get some good shots, but try for a minimum of 1/200.

There are obvious disadvantages of shooting burst, 25 second write time is one of them. Hopefully when the burst is over you have time to wait for the next shot.

--
Apologies if my lack of photographic knowledge is catching.
 
Yeah waiting for the burst shot to write to sd card is a pain if your shooting raw.

Shooting jpeg takes about 11 seconds to write. I updated my firmware a couple of days ago and setting the camera to best frame nets me 7 images now as well as burst mode. If anything it seems to shoot best frame faster than burst.

If you haven't updated the firmware it might be worth it. There seems to be a general improvement in the way the jpegs come out now too.

Love dat Fuji :P
http://akiwiretrospective.blogspot.com/
 
Ever thought about a monopod ? I'm trying to get one. With a quick release plate, they can be detached in an instant.

We have a half dozen small camera shops in town - None has a monopod though !!
Dave,
I've used this Monopod/Tripod for several years.
  • It comes with a "coin-like" accessory that is metal - but is not magnetized.
  • The coin screws into the bottom of the camera.
  • The camera is then placed on top of the M/T and the magnet (on top of the M/T) holds the camera securely.
  • And, it is easy to lift the camera off the M/T
  • The ball head of the M/T twists and swivels to allow for the best angle
  • A collar on the M/T twists to keep the camera in place after moving the M/T pole up or down to the desired height
  • The feet of the M/T are held tight with Velcro, but can easily be spread to make the M/T into a steady tripod
  • The M/T is very durable, and relatively light weight
It could also be used with a DSLR with a long-heavy-zoom lens - but only to provide support as I would never take my hands off the DSLR . (A strong wind could topple an unbalanced DSLR/long-heavy-zoom combo.)

First concern for most people is: I'm not having anything with magnets near my camera gear. It hasn't been a problem for me with P&S or DSLRs for the past several years.

Here is their YouTube demo:

http://www.youtube.com/user/TrekTech2#p/a/u/2/yh6X7UqcYns&feature=player_embedded

Here is a link to one for sale on Amazon. (US$89)

http://www.amazon.com/Sunpak-VersiPod-Monopod-Tripod-MagMount/dp/B000G0XM68
--
All the best,
Jim

Photographers take pictures, not cameras.
 
I have the manfrotto (650B with tripod feet) with quick release plat, did not find it useful in the field. Turned out to be another thing to carry that I didn't use.
--
Apologies if my lack of photographic knowledge is catching.
 
I have had the cam since almost day 1. I have followed the cam pretty closely. The first upgrade made some difference when shooting JPG.
--
Apologies if my lack of photographic knowledge is catching.
 
Lloydy wrote:
Snip...
here is a sample of 24 mm v 720 mm. Same scene. Shot today.
Snip...

Another great set, Dave. Your pictures speak volumes.

Meanwile, even though my little D40 is a gem, it still doesn't cover the range of the HS-10. And, you have done a great job with it - even at the long end of the zoom.

I've been shooting my Grandaughter's Soccer Games with a very short zoom, so your pics now have me looking at the versatility of the HS-10, again.
--
All the best,
Jim

Photographers take pictures, not cameras.
 

Keyboard shortcuts

Back
Top