Manual controls.special IQ of a Leica

Peter Nelson · Sep 6, 2010

After reading a few threads over the years about Leica gear and Leica IQ being special and also people wanting more main stream camera automatic bodies and AF lenses from Leica. I decided to make this statement. Please excuse any spelling mistakes.

I believe that using an all manual camera such as the Leica Rangefinder cameras allows the user to get a better sense of the subject. Why? Because the photographer as the user/operator must take the time to perform all the functions required to get a properly framed, exposed and in focus photograph. This amount of time of whatever amount for each individual image, I believe allows us to get a better feel and sense of understanding of what we are trying to achieve each time we take a picture. Certainly we do take them one at a time. The rangefinder viewfinder design also helps in composing.

That's it. On the other side we have fully computerized, AF, Auto ISO, super high ISO ability, high frame rate, auto exposure cameras that can also us zoom lenses. Excellent tools. You can rest assured if you work hard at it you can earn a living using them.

BUT, there is a lingering concept about the Leica M cameras somehow being better. Many people say it's the lenses. I say what makes the experience better is the small amount of time and personal effort and understanding involved in getting the image you want that provides us with a deeper appreciation of our own photographs. This certainly is not a bad thing. It's a good thing. To look at your images and have the feelings come back to you of those moments you took to manually set the aperture, turn the focus ring or knob and look thorough the viewfinder and align the double images into one, and then look for the right moment to squeze the shutter. Knowing you only had one such oppertunity. So if the image IS what you were trying to achieve then yes you may be among those who say, "for some reason I feel my images taken with my Leica gear has a special look that my other DSLR equipment just cannot provide".

Get it? I't not neccessarily better. It's that you as the photographer were more involved and that feeling has carried over to the final image on occasions. If you do photography as a hobby this then is certainly a good thing. I believe Leica knows this and they will continue providing the experience. Yes you can set many modern DSLR's to operate in all manual, the lenses can also be manually focused, I'm not sure but I doubt you can hold the lens and change the aperure on the lens body itself on any of them. Rather there's a wheel on the camera for this. But because these cameras are designed first as all automatic cameras and lenses the feeling is not the same and more than likely you will not use the camera all the time this way. If you do I suggest you get a different camera.

Lets hope Leica continues doing business and producing their style of camera for us.

Lastly, the Leica lens is a great product. Afterall Leitz the original company was a microscope manufacturer as far back as the 1880's so they had a head start on most of the world when it comes to small high quality optics and eventually camera lenses. Because they make a rangefinder camera they have kept the physical size of their lenses to a smaller size then that required by any DSLR. That's common knowledge, but I personally appreciate the small size and lack of weight as well as the great optics in all my Leica lenses. They do indeed make thier contribution to my own photography.
-Peter
--
Life as an artist has had some unusual times to say the least.
visit my web site http://www.flickr.com/photos/artist_eyes/
Remember to click on 'All Sizes' for better viewing.
Artist Eyes

bobastro · Sep 7, 2010

Peter Nelson said:
After reading a few threads over the years about Leica gear and Leica IQ being special and also people wanting more main stream camera automatic bodies and AF lenses from Leica. I decided to make this statement. Please excuse any spelling mistakes.

I believe that using an all manual camera such as the Leica Rangefinder cameras allows the user to get a better sense of the subject. Why? Because the photographer as the user/operator must take the time to perform all the functions required to get a properly framed, exposed and in focus photograph. This amount of time of whatever amount for each individual image, I believe allows us to get a better feel and sense of understanding of what we are trying to achieve each time we take a picture. Certainly we do take them one at a time. The rangefinder viewfinder design also helps in composing.

That's it. On the other side we have fully computerized, AF, Auto ISO, super high ISO ability, high frame rate, auto exposure cameras that can also us zoom lenses. Excellent tools. You can rest assured if you work hard at it you can earn a living using them.

BUT, there is a lingering concept about the Leica M cameras somehow being better. Many people say it's the lenses. I say what makes the experience better is the small amount of time and personal effort and understanding involved in getting the image you want that provides us with a deeper appreciation of our own photographs. This certainly is not a bad thing. It's a good thing. To look at your images and have the feelings come back to you of those moments you took to manually set the aperture, turn the focus ring or knob and look thorough the viewfinder and align the double images into one, and then look for the right moment to squeze the shutter. Knowing you only had one such oppertunity. So if the image IS what you were trying to achieve then yes you may be among those who say, "for some reason I feel my images taken with my Leica gear has a special look that my other DSLR equipment just cannot provide".

Get it? I't not neccessarily better. It's that you as the photographer were more involved and that feeling has carried over to the final image on occasions. If you do photography as a hobby this then is certainly a good thing. I believe Leica knows this and they will continue providing the experience. Yes you can set many modern DSLR's to operate in all manual, the lenses can also be manually focused, I'm not sure but I doubt you can hold the lens and change the aperure on the lens body itself on any of them. Rather there's a wheel on the camera for this. But because these cameras are designed first as all automatic cameras and lenses the feeling is not the same and more than likely you will not use the camera all the time this way. If you do I suggest you get a different camera.

Lets hope Leica continues doing business and producing their style of camera for us.

Lastly, the Leica lens is a great product. Afterall Leitz the original company was a microscope manufacturer as far back as the 1880's so they had a head start on most of the world when it comes to small high quality optics and eventually camera lenses. Because they make a rangefinder camera they have kept the physical size of their lenses to a smaller size then that required by any DSLR. That's common knowledge, but I personally appreciate the small size and lack of weight as well as the great optics in all my Leica lenses. They do indeed make thier contribution to my own photography.
-Peter
--
Life as an artist has had some unusual times to say the least.
visit my web site http://www.flickr.com/photos/artist_eyes/
Remember to click on 'All Sizes' for better viewing.
Artist Eyes

There is this promotional video by Wim Wenders using an M8, all love and praise of the experience and the awareness of place and so on. In the YouTube version, there is a commentary really brilliant, which I can't see anymore but said something like: 'Look at Wim's face at 1:22. He's like 'Damn, another picture I missed with this manual camera'

I love my M9 and use it all the time, but come on, you don't get a better sense of the subject just because it takes longer to set the camera up.

By the way, the 'lingering concept' about Leica M cameras being better is actually only in the heads of us Leica users.

Let's not have absolute sentences here. Leica cameras can be arguably better than other cameras for certain uses. Worse for others. I'd love super high ISO ability, for example. High ISO performance of the M9 is simply lame. I have a Canon 5D and well, I use it in manual mode and the super-computerized auto-everything doesn't get in the way of my sense of the subject.

CutterUK · Sep 7, 2010

IMO all of this is just plain nonsense, right from using a Leica makes you take your time thus provides better images to leica producesing the finest lenses.

if your photo's were hanging in some famous gallery and you'd published best selling photographic books then maybe your rambling would have some worth but your not so they don't.

it's just your opinion and that's fine though.

Peter Nelson said:
After reading a few threads over the years about Leica gear and Leica IQ being special and also people wanting more main stream camera automatic bodies and AF lenses from Leica. I decided to make this statement. Please excuse any spelling mistakes.

I believe that using an all manual camera such as the Leica Rangefinder cameras allows the user to get a better sense of the subject. Why? Because the photographer as the user/operator must take the time to perform all the functions required to get a properly framed, exposed and in focus photograph. This amount of time of whatever amount for each individual image, I believe allows us to get a better feel and sense of understanding of what we are trying to achieve each time we take a picture. Certainly we do take them one at a time. The rangefinder viewfinder design also helps in composing.

That's it. On the other side we have fully computerized, AF, Auto ISO, super high ISO ability, high frame rate, auto exposure cameras that can also us zoom lenses. Excellent tools. You can rest assured if you work hard at it you can earn a living using them.

BUT, there is a lingering concept about the Leica M cameras somehow being better. Many people say it's the lenses. I say what makes the experience better is the small amount of time and personal effort and understanding involved in getting the image you want that provides us with a deeper appreciation of our own photographs. This certainly is not a bad thing. It's a good thing. To look at your images and have the feelings come back to you of those moments you took to manually set the aperture, turn the focus ring or knob and look thorough the viewfinder and align the double images into one, and then look for the right moment to squeze the shutter. Knowing you only had one such oppertunity. So if the image IS what you were trying to achieve then yes you may be among those who say, "for some reason I feel my images taken with my Leica gear has a special look that my other DSLR equipment just cannot provide".

Get it? I't not neccessarily better. It's that you as the photographer were more involved and that feeling has carried over to the final image on occasions. If you do photography as a hobby this then is certainly a good thing. I believe Leica knows this and they will continue providing the experience. Yes you can set many modern DSLR's to operate in all manual, the lenses can also be manually focused, I'm not sure but I doubt you can hold the lens and change the aperure on the lens body itself on any of them. Rather there's a wheel on the camera for this. But because these cameras are designed first as all automatic cameras and lenses the feeling is not the same and more than likely you will not use the camera all the time this way. If you do I suggest you get a different camera.

Lets hope Leica continues doing business and producing their style of camera for us.

Lastly, the Leica lens is a great product. Afterall Leitz the original company was a microscope manufacturer as far back as the 1880's so they had a head start on most of the world when it comes to small high quality optics and eventually camera lenses. Because they make a rangefinder camera they have kept the physical size of their lenses to a smaller size then that required by any DSLR. That's common knowledge, but I personally appreciate the small size and lack of weight as well as the great optics in all my Leica lenses. They do indeed make thier contribution to my own photography.
-Peter
--
Life as an artist has had some unusual times to say the least.
visit my web site http://www.flickr.com/photos/artist_eyes/
Remember to click on 'All Sizes' for better viewing.
Artist Eyes

--
http://racketphotography.com/The-Racket-Collection

http://bbphotochallenge.com/BBPhotochallenge/index.php?cat=2

Artichoke · Sep 7, 2010

which means the photographer is forced to think before pressing the shutter release

this is a good thing for sure & I find myself thinking more now with my DSLR photography after my experience shooting rangefinders

an SLR can be shot using manual settings (I use manual exposure for about 90% of my SLR photographs and manual focus for about 40%)

from my experience the biggest advantages of the RF is precise focus placement & the viewfinder, which allows for seeing beyond the frame

the view beyond the frame is a big plus both for composition & anticipation of action, which I find a RF camera's greatest advantage over an SLR

of course the great lenses uniquely available to the M mount are an important incentive for getting a rangefinder
--
--
pbase & dpreview supporter
DPR forum member since 5/2001
http://www.pbase.com/artichoke

prk60091 · Sep 7, 2010

i think the OP is trying to redefine the "decisive moment"

I dont think that shooting a rangefinder automatically gives you better images.

Last month I saw an exhibit of Henri Cartier-Bresson's work at the Art Institute of Chicago.

There were many hundred's of his images exhibited- some as my wife said "look staged" some appeared to me to be a "decisive moment" and many others quite frankly were not special at all.

I ended up purchasing a couple of books at the museum gift shop and have re-read them a couple of times since the exhibit.

The thing that strikes me about HC-B is that he started his creative life as a painter-

and what is a good painting- something that memorializes a "decisive moment" he took those learned skills and applied them brillantly to photography and using the Leica he was best able to capture it.

However, as I read and re-read the books- he did not take the time to carefully expose or focus each shot- he used zone focusing and he knew exposures by experience. In fact one blurb in the exhibition mentioned that HCB was a blur as he took a shot.

I think Leica optics can take an ordinary image and make it look better and they take an exceptional image and make it look it stupendous....

photography is all about light transferred to film or silicon
the better the lens the better the result....

Doug MacMillan · Sep 7, 2010

Peter Nelson said:
I believe that using an all manual camera such as the Leica Rangefinder cameras allows the user to get a better sense of the subject. Why? Because the photographer as the user/operator must take the time to perform all the functions required to get a properly framed, exposed and in focus photograph. This amount of time of whatever amount for each individual image, I believe allows us to get a better feel and sense of understanding of what we are trying to achieve each time we take a picture.

If we took this to its logical conclusion, then shooting with an 8x10 view camera would provide us with even better photographs than a Leica RF. You certainly have to take the time to "perform all functions required".

I think Leica RF's excel at available light candid photography. When you think of great, iconic images taken by Leicas, this is what comes to mind, certainly not landscapes or still lifes.

I like shooting candids with the Leica for pretty much the opposite of your argument. In most circumstances, I can meter, set my aperture and shutter speed and not worry with it. I work unobtrusively, zone focusing my subject, then waiting until the right moment to raise the camera. I can quickly fine focus, recompose and take the photo. The lack of shutter lag is a big plus, I don't have to anticipate the moment nearly as much as with a DSLR. After nearly 40 years of shooting with an M3, it's gotten pretty instinctive.

Jerry_R · Sep 7, 2010

Could you summarize in one sentence - what is your expectation ?
--
Best Regards,
Jerry_R

Peter Nelson · Sep 7, 2010

bobastro,

I'm aware of the video it's at leat a year or more old. But he was a working pro, and I believe I supported DSLR's for much of that. I was talking about the rest of us who are not working pro's.

I do think the estra time an all manual camera requires does allow for the subject to be more noticed and understood than if we use our auto cameras.

Based on that I also think that when we finally see the image on screen or in print there is more of a connection. Hence the unexplained Leica IQ. This can also be achieved with other manual cameras.

I did not dwell on the Leica lens quality but I want to add there certainly are some very special lenses from Leica. I own the Summilux 50mm f/1.4 and I can often see it's signiture in the image (in a good way). I have a 50mm f/3.5 Collapible Elmar that I can say the same about. Although the IQ is not as sharp as from the Summilux. Having said that, my Canon 85mm f/1.2 L lens also has a special signiture when shot wide open and the IQ is great.

I just don't connect to my DSLR's as well as I do my M5 and R-D1. I find the slower pace is an important part of the experience and I do get better images because of this. I'll put it down to feeling more involved in the photographic process and this is what allows me to get better images. I am thinking more about what I'm doing.

bobastro said:
Peter Nelson said:

After reading a few threads over the years about Leica gear and Leica IQ being special and also people wanting more main stream camera automatic bodies and AF lenses from Leica. I decided to make this statement. Please excuse any spelling mistakes.

I believe that using an all manual camera such as the Leica Rangefinder cameras allows the user to get a better sense of the subject. Why? Because the photographer as the user/operator must take the time to perform all the functions required to get a properly framed, exposed and in focus photograph. This amount of time of whatever amount for each individual image, I believe allows us to get a better feel and sense of understanding of what we are trying to achieve each time we take a picture. Certainly we do take them one at a time. The rangefinder viewfinder design also helps in composing.

That's it. On the other side we have fully computerized, AF, Auto ISO, super high ISO ability, high frame rate, auto exposure cameras that can also us zoom lenses. Excellent tools. You can rest assured if you work hard at it you can earn a living using them.

BUT, there is a lingering concept about the Leica M cameras somehow being better. Many people say it's the lenses. I say what makes the experience better is the small amount of time and personal effort and understanding involved in getting the image you want that provides us with a deeper appreciation of our own photographs. This certainly is not a bad thing. It's a good thing. To look at your images and have the feelings come back to you of those moments you took to manually set the aperture, turn the focus ring or knob and look thorough the viewfinder and align the double images into one, and then look for the right moment to squeze the shutter. Knowing you only had one such oppertunity. So if the image IS what you were trying to achieve then yes you may be among those who say, "for some reason I feel my images taken with my Leica gear has a special look that my other DSLR equipment just cannot provide".

Get it? I't not neccessarily better. It's that you as the photographer were more involved and that feeling has carried over to the final image on occasions. If you do photography as a hobby this then is certainly a good thing. I believe Leica knows this and they will continue providing the experience. Yes you can set many modern DSLR's to operate in all manual, the lenses can also be manually focused, I'm not sure but I doubt you can hold the lens and change the aperure on the lens body itself on any of them. Rather there's a wheel on the camera for this. But because these cameras are designed first as all automatic cameras and lenses the feeling is not the same and more than likely you will not use the camera all the time this way. If you do I suggest you get a different camera.

Lets hope Leica continues doing business and producing their style of camera for us.

Click to expand...

bobastro said:
There is this promotional video by Wim Wenders using an M8, all love and praise of the experience and the awareness of place and so on. In the YouTube version, there is a commentary really brilliant, which I can't see anymore but said something like: 'Look at Wim's face at 1:22. He's like 'Damn, another picture I missed with this manual camera'

I love my M9 and use it all the time, but come on, you don't get a better sense of the subject just because it takes longer to set the camera up.

By the way, the 'lingering concept' about Leica M cameras being better is actually only in the heads of us Leica users.

Let's not have absolute sentences here. Leica cameras can be arguably better than other cameras for certain uses. Worse for others. I'd love super high ISO ability, for example. High ISO performance of the M9 is simply lame. I have a Canon 5D and well, I use it in manual mode and the super-computerized auto-everything doesn't get in the way of my sense of the subject.