M9 problems

After an original positive review of my Leica M9, I have since returned it as it had a number of problems. Firstly a really bad colour fringing issue when shooting any back lite subject and also random corrupt files that will not open.

I sent the files to Leica and I was told to stop the lens down by 2/3 stops, I tried this and it made little difference.

Add to that the poor high iso performance and the poor battery life makes the camera too much of a disappointment to use now.

Given the cost and how far the big names have gone with sensors and high iso performance Leica still havel work to do! in good light up to 400 iso things are very good, if you want to shoot at 1000 iso or more its just not in the same league as canon and nikon.

Sure the build is nice and the lenses are the best but the technology of the sensor and software are still a long way behind the big guns and at £5000 what exactly are you getting? I will keep my M6 for nostalgic reasons.

Lastly the lcd screen is another poor performer, seems to smudge very easily and is not very high res too, poor buffer as well just too slow!
All a shame really could have been so good. :> (

That's a real shame. I'm seriously considering buying into the M-system with an M9 (fed up of wishing i had my too-bulky D3 dSLR with me at missed opportunities) but there does seem to be a lot of negativity about the M9 online.

Out of interest, which lens were you using that caused the fringing?

You quote the price in GBP so assume you're in UK like me. Where did you buy from that let you trial the camera and return it when used?

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Jason

With the M6, how many times do you use more than 400 ASA films ?????

The M9 is made to use like a M6 I think. Up to 400 ISO IQ is the best of the current 24x36 Digital Gear IMHO however I would prefer a D3s sensor in the M9. Can you show the colour fringing ?

nikos theodosiou said:

After an original positive review of my Leica M9, I have since returned it as it had a number of problems. Firstly a really bad colour fringing issue when shooting any back lite subject and also random corrupt files that will not open.

I sent the files to Leica and I was told to stop the lens down by 2/3 stops, I tried this and it made little difference.

Add to that the poor high iso performance and the poor battery life makes the camera too much of a disappointment to use now.

Given the cost and how far the big names have gone with sensors and high iso performance Leica still havel work to do! in good light up to 400 iso things are very good, if you want to shoot at 1000 iso or more its just not in the same league as canon and nikon.

Sure the build is nice and the lenses are the best but the technology of the sensor and software are still a long way behind the big guns and at £5000 what exactly are you getting? I will keep my M6 for nostalgic reasons.

Lastly the lcd screen is another poor performer, seems to smudge very easily and is not very high res too, poor buffer as well just too slow!
All a shame really could have been so good. :> (

Click to expand...

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Cheers
Marc
http://photo.duannob.free.fr/

I have used mine since December & I think the sensor one of its best features

every bit the match for the sensor in my D3X, which I use now almost only for macros & telephoto photography

I think coupled with the right lenses, the M9 does a grand job with back lit subjects, particularly as shadow detail is so deep

without seeing examples, it is hard to determine where your troubles come from & I am disappointed that Leica did not help you further

QC is often compromised with the second & third wave of Home Run cameras & the M9 is very much a Home Run

I believe Kodak did a fine job with the M9's sensor & hope Leica continues to work with this long time partner in the future
I suspect you will find a buyer for your M9
the used market for this camera lists very few legitimate offerings

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--
pbase & dpreview supporter
DPR forum member since 5/2001
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jaslid said:

I'm seriously considering buying into the M-system with an M9 (fed up of wishing
i had my too-bulky D3 dSLR with me at missed opportunities) but there does seem
to be a lot of negativity about the M9 online.

Click to expand...

If possible, try one. There are negative comments about every camera and system. The only digitals that have started acting on me are consumer and pro-level Canon DSLR's. I still think they are good cameras for what I use them and would recommend them to others.

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LJL

And, so do I; besides, "... the first rangefinder camera ever marketed was the 3A Kodak Autographic Special of 1916 ..." so Kodak is not exactly a novice, when it comes to "rangefinder" cameras (Leica is very much aware of this history & Kodak's association with rangefinders cameras; and, now with Leica, Kodak, has played a role in the development of the first full-frame digital sensor rangefinder camera, the Leica M9 ----- what a history, these two have had in rangefinder camera research):

(There's a bit more at this link) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rangefinder_camera

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BRJR ....(LOL, some of us are quite satisfied as Hobbyists ..)

Artichoke said:

I have used mine since December & I think the sensor one of its best features

every bit the match for the sensor in my D3X, which I use now almost only for macros & telephoto photography

I think coupled with the right lenses, the M9 does a grand job with back lit subjects, particularly as shadow detail is so deep

without seeing examples, it is hard to determine where your troubles come from & I am disappointed that Leica did not help you further

QC is often compromised with the second & third wave of Home Run cameras & the M9 is very much a Home Run

I believe Kodak did a fine job with the M9's sensor & hope Leica continues to work with this long time partner in the future
I suspect you will find a buyer for your M9
the used market for this camera lists very few legitimate offerings

--
--
pbase & dpreview supporter
DPR forum member since 5/2001
http://www.pbase.com/artichoke

Click to expand...

LJL said:

jaslid said:

I'm seriously considering buying into the M-system with an M9 (fed up of wishing
i had my too-bulky D3 dSLR with me at missed opportunities) but there does seem
to be a lot of negativity about the M9 online.

Click to expand...

If possible, try one. There are negative comments about every camera and system. The only digitals that have started acting on me are consumer and pro-level Canon DSLR's. I still think they are good cameras for what I use them and would recommend them to others.

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LJL

Click to expand...

Don't mean to thread hijack. But yes, my intention is to try as thoroughly as I can. With that in mind I'm off to one of the Akademie seminars at the Leica Store in Mayfair next Thursday. Quite a trip (I live nr Edinburgh!) but absolutely worth the effort prior to any committing decision.

There just seems so much negativity that I confess is causing me concern about such a sizeable 'investment'.

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Jason

That's a real shame. I'm seriously considering buying into the M-system with an M9 (fed up of wishing i had my too-bulky D3 dSLR with me at missed opportunities) but there does seem to be a lot of negativity about the M9 online.
Out of interest, which lens were you using that caused the fringing?

You quote the price in GBP so assume you're in UK like me. Where did you buy from that let you trial the camera and return it when used?

Well I would have a serious think about it! I too have used a D3 and 24-70 2.8G lens and when I look at both the M9 raw files and D3 at 100 iso there is not much to choose, M9 is sharper and more saturated, however when the iso is increased there is NO contest! the M9 fall flat on its face, it can't cope.

I'm sure there will be lots of devoted Leica users out there who will disagree, but at the end of the day its a camera designed to take pictures and however nice it is to use and work with if the performance is not up to the mark then you have to live with huge compromises, I am not prepared to do so for a £5000 camera, add a few lenses and your talking of £10000.

I was using the 50mm f/2 Summicron new lens, although Leica did say that it was the sensor and not the lens, I will load some pictures later to show the problem.

I bought the camera from Leica Mayfair and as I had been talking with Germany and they agreed the problem I returned the camera for a refund, they are very helpful at the shop.

I used 28, 50, and 90 f/4 macro lenses with the camera the 90mm f/4 is the sharpest lens I have ever used, it is amazing! currently for sale on ebay if anyone is interested?

I truly love Leica, I'm not trying to knock them just give an honest account of my dealings with the M9, I would love it to be better and to keep it but too much wrong with it to justify the price.

I can see what your saying, but if the M9 is supposed to be like the M6 then how can they price is at £5000? as it is its very limited, or my theory is that Leica want you to buy their fast lenses so as you don't have to stray over 400 iso :> P

I think that if you put M9 files against D3, 5dk2 etc there is no contest, sure at 100 (160 M9) it is very very good, but 800/1000 iso that I use a lot just not good enough! giving the camera limited use.

nikos theodosiou said:

I think that if you put M9 files against D3, 5dk2 etc there is no contest, sure at 100 (160 M9) it is very very good, but 800/1000 iso that I use a lot just not good enough!

Click to expand...

I agree, I'm an M8.2 user and reviews and example pics, the noise and the DR of the M9 are about the same as the M8 above 640, that would be very frustrating for high ISO users. It's not going to put me off the M9 as I'm not a high ISO shooter - well I don't go above 640 anyway, plus Adobe Camera Raw now has extremely good noise reduction algorythms

nikos theodosiou said:

Well I would have a serious think about it! I too have used a D3 and 24-70 2.8G lens and when I look at both the M9 raw files and D3 at 100 iso there is not much to choose, M9 is sharper and more saturated, however when the iso is increased there is NO contest! the M9 fall flat on its face, it can't cope.

I'm sure there will be lots of devoted Leica users out there who will disagree, but at the end of the day its a camera designed to take pictures and however nice it is to use and work with if the performance is not up to the mark then you have to live with huge compromises, I am not prepared to do so for a £5000 camera, add a few lenses and your talking of £10000.

I was using the 50mm f/2 Summicron new lens, although Leica did say that it was the sensor and not the lens, I will load some pictures later to show the problem.

I bought the camera from Leica Mayfair and as I had been talking with Germany and they agreed the problem I returned the camera for a refund, they are very helpful at the shop.

I used 28, 50, and 90 f/4 macro lenses with the camera the 90mm f/4 is the sharpest lens I have ever used, it is amazing! currently for sale on ebay if anyone is interested?

I truly love Leica, I'm not trying to knock them just give an honest account of my dealings with the M9, I would love it to be better and to keep it but too much wrong with it to justify the price.

Click to expand...

Thanks for your feedback. I agree that any camera is primarily a means to produce good/useable images - the D3 (or any dSLR really) is a perfect tool in this sense - but any dSLR sized camera is not always with me, hence the M consideration. Much to consider.

So the issue was with the sensor and presumably, since they didn't just offer a replacement camera, a known issue/limitation in the design? Hmmm.

I rarely shoot at > 800 ISO even with my D3 since I prefer very clean, detailed files - so I will be looking closely at this in Leica Mayfair. My first choice lens would be the 50 Summilux, but getting that appears impossible for the foreseeable future.

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Jason

i shoot my 5d2 alongside my m9, and the m9 at iso1250 is slightly better than the 5d2 at 1600. that's actually extraordinary performance by any measure. i have printed many m9 photos shot in light levels around iso1250, f/1.4, 1/30th sec up to 36" wide, and they are really excellent, with no problems at all from noise and amazing amounts of fine detail, as well as very impressive, subtle color (which the 5d2 can't match at high isos).

if you blow out the background of your frame, you can get some pretty powerful magenta fringing around edges. since leica told you to try reducing exposure, i suspect this is what they determined your files were suffering from. this problem occurs with most digital cameras to one degree or another--careful exposure is always important. however, many post processing programs have automatic or semi-automatic removal/reduction of such fringing, which makes it not much of an issue when it does occur.

the m9 is far from perfect, but it is not as far behind canon at high iso as many commentators make it out to be. it's not a camera suited to automated use; to get the most out of it you need to take full control over it's basic parameters. but it is ideally suited to facilitate such control, and rewards skillful use more highly than many top-tier cameras.

I like the high ISO performance of my M9

given the design differences between CCD & CMOS sensors, the M9 allows for noise control post capture and not as the data comes off the sensor which allows for greater user control which I like

the smudged look of CaNikon files can be easily achieved if you wish in Raw conversion with simple tweaks in conversion

also Leica's ISO ratings are very conservative when compared to either Nikon or Canon as you noted
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--
pbase & dpreview supporter
DPR forum member since 5/2001
http://www.pbase.com/artichoke

No problems with high ISO performance with my M9, or any other aspects of its performance for that matter. A tip for great high ISO results is to use Lightroom 3 or CS5 (ACR) for your .dng files.

I think if you really want a Nikon or Canon and find it more productive then use one, but don't dress it up with some garbage about the M9 can't do this or can't do that. Clearly the M9 can do things that make it more productive than a Nikon or Canon for the majority of people who bought one so far. But thats the scary thing isn't it, productivity, because it means making photographs, not talking about cameras.

Steve

I would purchase the Leica M9 IF I could. A Full Frame digital rangefinder would be THE camera for me. I'll have to make do with my second hand R-D1 as I am severly limited budget wise for the forseable future. If I do ever get a chunk of cash I would make that M9 purchase.
--
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visit my web site http://www.flickr.com/photos/artist_eyes/
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Artist Eyes

i found a couple of nasty things in my camera too.

• first and foremost, neither two, nor twelve-second delay work. try it for yourself. set the 12 sec delay in the menu and press the shutter button. found it hard way while doing some night time shooting. had to stand and hold the bloody button until the shutter would close.

• second, when a card is full WHILE doing a long exposure, the camera locks up and plays possum until the bottom cover is opened. even after that it is not possible to see pictures and hence delete junk.

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Irakly Shanidze
http://www.shanidze.com/en

Irakly Shanidze said:

• first and foremost, neither two, nor twelve-second delay work. try it for yourself. set the 12 sec delay in the menu and press the shutter button. found it hard way while doing some night time shooting. had to stand and hold the bloody button until the shutter would close.

Click to expand...

this is a menu setting, requested because many of us were getting annoyed that the on/off selection lever is too easily knocked around. you can choose to tell the camera to ignore the self-timer setting and treat it the same as continuous, which i do, and which has kept me from losing photo opportunities on several occasions.

Irakly Shanidze said:

• second, when a card is full WHILE doing a long exposure, the camera locks up and plays possum until the bottom cover is opened. even after that it is not possible to see pictures and hence delete junk.

Click to expand...

i haven't had this happen with long exposures per se, but i've frequently had the camera lock up when shooting the last exposure on a card (the camera says that there's one frame remaining, you shoot that frame, camera freezes. this is repeatable.) it is really annoying, and should not happen on any camera, but especially not a serious tool like the m9. i try to remember to switch cards before i run down to one frame left, but i shouldn't have to worry about this. shame, shame leica.

I concur. AT least up to 1250 ISO, M9 pictures properly processed (Lightroom 3) will match or outperform Nikon D3.
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François

Ha ha...outperform a D3 at high iso!??? funny..

Obviously I did risk rustling the feathers of the "Leica devotee"

I'm just a photographer who uses cameras for a living and needs a camera to perform. Any modern pro or semi pro digital camera needs to perform well at 1600 as a min, the M9 does not do this, process raw files in CS5, Capture one pro, Lightroom, tried them all, the pictures in my gallery were processed using CS5. Not nearly good enough!

As for being better than a D3, just crazy talk! I am not a devotee of any camera manufacture I use what works, if its Nikon, Canon, Leica fine whatever. The M9 is great at 160-400 that's it! it has lots of other issues that a £5000 should not have but that's apparently the "beauty" of Leica ownership.