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articulating screens on cameras - just not needed?

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graybalanced wrote:

Heck, we could probably put together a decent argument/flame war as to why a "true" pro camera would not need to have an option to output JPEG. (I know that would never happen and why, but just for the sake of argument...)

Please, let's not go there. :-)
 
JMCO said:
You said it better in far fewer sentences. Thanks.
Click to expand...
Not only did you thank him for calling you small-minded and ignorant, you also proved his second point.
 
Over the years I have been privileged to use 4x5 and 8x10 view cameras as well

as 4x5 Speed Graphics on which you could use the ground glass backs for composing and focusing. Later I owned a Rolliflex and a couple of Hasselblads which
had similar features. When I went digital my first camera was a Nikon 990 with

a partially reticulating lcd. Now I have a G11 and really enjoy it's reticulalting lcd.

I love it and wish my 30D had one too. No, I wouldn't want one for fast action or
sports shooting but for landscape and macro work they do provide the opportunity

to crop accurately and as some mentioned they are great to shoot mostly unnoticed from wait level and they are wonderful for old folks like me who can get an almost ground level shot without having to get on the ground and then wonder
how in heck you're gonna get up! But to each his own.
 
Very soon the capture/lens mechanism will hang off the screen,
not the other way around.
Next step is to physically separate them and link 'em by Bluetooth.

FWIW, my R1's properly articulated screen assists in at least 30% of shots.

--

 
Examples: 1. I sit down at an outdoor beer garden, notice an interesting face to my right or left, I put my camera sideways on the table in front of me with the screen tilted towards me,put down my can of beer right next to the camera and press the shutter, very candid pictures. 2. See a good subject and have no tripod with me, put the camera on a low wall or park bench fold out the screen compose the picture from above and hit the 2 sec timer, no movement great. I certainly would not buy a camera without one. Of course if you don't like them they can be left folded flat against the back of the camera where they won't cause any trouble. They appeared to be a gimmick when I got my first one but after use it is a necessity for me. Saves walking around like Groucho Marx if anyone can remember him.
 
I look at the flip-out LCD screens like I do image stabilization, liveview, TTL or built-in wireless flash trigger . . .

They are all good tools to have in the toolbox whenever you may need them.

I also think that all DSLR's, except maybe a couple of bottom end models, will have flip-out LCD's.

The new Canon 60D has one . . . I also think that the Nikon D90, D300s and D700 (and possibly the D3s) replacements may have them as well!

As for articulating screens being easily damaged or wearng out, this really isn't an issue.

I've been in the camera rental, sales and repair business the last eight years and have only seen a very small number of them with physical damage needing repair, not counting the actual LCD as non-articulating LCD screens get broken even though they don't 'articulate'.

--
J. D.
Colorado


  • Who says you need a DSLR to get the shot? (from Olympus Tough 8000)
 
The best thing about the 270 degree fully articulating screen on my Olympus E30 DSLR?

270 degrees! Plus the fact I can turn the screen inward so to anyone looking on, the camera is "blind" ( no LCD screen showing to casual onlookers ).
 
I have an Oly e620. Had no interest in the articulating screen when I purchased. Just wasn't a consideration. I really like it and use it quite a lot. Really nice for most tripod work and can be used effectively in a range of odd situations. I like it enough that I'd consider it a fairly large negative on any camera I'd consider in the future. Is it something used everyday in normal shooting situations, no. But I think it's a darn nice feature.
--
http://www.bjaphotos.smugmug.com
 
Ron Poelman said:
Next step is to physically separate them and link 'em by Bluetooth.
Click to expand...
This would be very high on my wish-list of cool stuff that should be implemented. An LCD you can take out and use for wireless liveview or image review. You could make it into a touch screen or add some buttons on the side of the take-out module and you could even use it as a remote control for your camera.

The first manufacturer to implement this will earn my undying admiration ^^
 
Ron Poelman said:
Next step is to physically separate them and link 'em by Bluetooth.
Click to expand...
Now, see that's innovative thinking. Not arguing about what it is now but what it should be eventually. A detachable wireless LCD would be as useful as as Bluetooth mobile headset, which is to say, potentially extremely useful.

It increasingly makes the people who say "the viewfinder must be glued to the body" sound more like dinosaurs, not to mention "the viewfinder must be glued to the body and you have to push your face up to it and stick one eye in it......or it's not a real camera!"
 
I won't repeat what everyone has already said, but I'll chime in on the side of articulated LCD's. I won't consider a camera without one. Even if it's just a tilting LCD, I'll take that over a fixed one any day.

The articulated LCD is a godsend for taking low to the ground shots that back in the old SLR days- I had to lie on my belly to get. It's good for sneaky street shots too. I could not live without one now that I have grown to appreciate just how useful it is.

Candice in PA
 
My little Canon A610 had this feature and I liked them both (the camera and the feature) very much. (Unfortunately the camera died recently and the reparation would be prohibitively expensive.)

It is a pity that this information is not recorded precisely in the camera database of this site, and that it can not be used as a search criterium.

In dcresource, it can be:

http://www.dcresource.com/--
Iván József Balázs
(Hungary)
 
JMCO said:
I am not against people needing articulating screens who need them but, I bet most people do not need them.
Click to expand...
Why should we care about you being for or against anything? Are you some kind of expert at building or shooting cameras?
JMCO said:
What if camera makers sold one model version with and one without the articulating screen (extra cost for the movable screen)? :-)

I think the attached screens would easily out sell the articulating option.

(Actually, in a way, they do. Most cell phones with cameras have attached screens and, people are not complaining. Although, I think there is one model phone with an articulating camera lens!)
Click to expand...
Whoopee!
JMCO said:
Back to cameras: The articulating screen is a red herring that the camera industry and inexperienced buyers are falling for too easily. It is not needed unless you take a lot of low shots (insects, flowers, and such?) or have your camera on a copy stand/scope kind of set up and it makes it easier to see what you are shooting (over and over again).
Click to expand...
What nonsense. As a "beginner", you'd think I would know better, but with bad knees and only some 58 years of various kinds of photo experience, I don't. Right now, I'm using Pentax gear, but if they don't' put out an articulating screen soon, I'll be using another brand.
JMCO said:
If you just walk around as a tourist, shoot friends, parties, are a photography student or even work as a pro, the articulating screen is just one more thing to break and is little used in the field.
Click to expand...
You know that, do you? No, you think that. Where's the cite that proves it?
JMCO said:
Sure, you can shoot at your waste or hold it up over a crowd or low spot. But most photographers, with no viewfinder used and film, have been doing that for decades.
Click to expand...
Well, I try not to do too many waste shots, but a lot tend to be waist level. In the past, cameras, such as TLRs, were most easily viewed at waist or lower levels. My early Canon F1 SLR had a slip off pentaprism that allowed me to shoot at low levels without have to completely get down in mud and dirt.
JMCO said:
Now, with pixels so cheap , you can just fire off 5-10+ shots holding the camera over your head or wherever and then pick the one that works. You could also look for higher ground to take pictures from (what I do).
Click to expand...
There you go. Fire off 10 shots every time you need one and then spend extra hours sorting through to find the one you need out of each sequence. What happens if you blow all ten?

--
Charlie Self



http://www.charlieselfonline.com
 
JMCO said:
Now, with pixels so cheap , you can just fire off 5-10+ shots holding the camera over your head or wherever and then pick the one that works.
Click to expand...
This has always been a false claim. Cards may be bigger and cheaper than ever, but they've had to be: Thanks to the megapixels wars, buying a new camera often means losing up to half of the capacity of my existing set of cards, because the pixel counts and file sizes have grown so much. It still pays to limit the number of shots you take. "Spray and pray" is still not terribly respected as a shooting technique unless you're shooting something like sports.

Also, if you have to fire off 10 shots just because you can't see what you're doing, what if that causes you to miss the next shot because you could not complete the previous one as quickly as if you could compose it properly?

I cannot believe someone's actually advocating the practice of photography with $2000 cameras as if one was a blind man...unable to see what they're shooting. That's about as anti-photography as it comes.
 
As a P&S family snapshot user of cameras, I personally would really like viewfinders on my cameras rather than articulated screens. I have lost more pictures through an unstable camera or being unable to see the screen in bright sunlight than I have through lacking an articulated screen. I wonder how the price/size trade-off compares between screen articulation and an EVF?

With the way EVFs are developing, I should be able to get a decent pocket-sized camera with a viewfinder at a consumer-friendly price again soon.

--
Mike Richmond
 
Don Simons said:
I certainly would not buy a camera without one. Of course if you don't like them they can be left folded flat against the back of the camera where they won't cause any trouble. They appeared to be a gimmick when I got my first one but after use it is a necessity for me. Saves walking around like Groucho Marx if anyone can remember him.
Click to expand...
But of course, Groucho is immortal. He had some of the best one liners I ever heard, and they're still funny some 70+ years later. That's true genius.

Candice in PA
 
JMCO said:
I am not against people needing articulating screens who need them but, I bet most people do not need them.

What if camera makers sold one model version with and one without the articulating screen (extra cost for the movable screen)? :-)
Click to expand...
JMCO said:
OK, please be nice in your vociferous rebuttals please. :-)
Click to expand...
From a inventory cost and control standpoint, it's easier to build one model with an articulating screen and then hope that the people that don't want to use it will just flip it 180 degrees and leave it in the same spot a non-articulated screen would be. ;)

----
Steve Fuller
Always wanting to learn something
 
I personally don't want one , if I need to get close to the ground I use my non articulated groundsheet in my bag .

The main reason I don't want is , there is a massive increase in failure rate , tiny flexible cct being bent and stretched ... no thanks , I see enough failure on laptop vga leads which are made much more robust than these sort of screens.
 
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