If FT was to end, where would you go?

I believe it has been the longest death watch in history.

Ben Herrmann said:

Remember, these are only cameras - not a "way of life," yet some bound their mindset and psyche into a particular brand name and philosophy. If FT goes - so be it - we have other choices. I'm sure that Canon and Nikon will continue to flourish. I think it's called "choice" and hopefully a free market system (what's left of it, anyway).
--

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Not sure. C&N have been losing huge chunks of Market Share in Japan to mirrorless. Advising people to buy dSLR lenses might become a liability for any brand.

Besides Conspicuous Consumption attitudes start to look very outdated in the downturn, and contribute to further liability.

Am.

--
Photostream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/amalric

.. right now is the 4:3 ratio

I have been a photographer for over 20 years and could never get comfortable with the 3;2 ratio which i found very unpleasing , especially in the vertical format

so far the only other dslr with serious options other than 3;2 is the Nikon D3 . too big and too expansive but if Nikon d400 or d800 ever adopts the 5;4 ratio of the d3 , I would probably switch

especially after what happened this week end

Harold
--
http://www.harold-glit.com
http://www.modelmayhem.com/haroldglit

harleydavidson said:

harleydavidson said:

I will use my cameras until they stop functioning or I become dissatisfied with them.

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harleydavidson said:

No need! Just buy up all the fire sale Olympus stuff from all the deserters who quickly jump ship and enjoy your Olympus for many years to come. Half of these so called Oly fans are talking treason already because they either can't wait for Oly's announcement or they are prematurely second guessing thast they won't be happy with it. Either case, should be fun buying up all their gear for 10 cents on the dollar. I've never seen such mass hysteria in my life as this Olympus crowd of complainers and whiners.
--
Olympus E-30
Zuiko 12-60mm, 70-300mm

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You missed a key thing in my philosophy... "Until I become dissatisfied with them"

If Im dissatisfied with them, I wouldn't be buying "more of the same"..

When the "average" DSLR can have 30 mpixel and a noise-free ISO 3200, then I might become "dissatisfied" with what I have.. Until then, I expect to stay "satisfied" unless of course they wear out.

--
Larrys Wife/alter ego/best friend.

Klarno said:

I would probably pick up a Nikon FX system. I've handled the D700 and I love its ergonomics as much as I love Olympus 4/3 ergonomics.

As it is right now, I'm strongly considering picking up a used Canon 5D, but no EF lenses. I'd mainly use my four excellent OM Zuiko lenses with it.

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I decided to do that after the release of the MkII brought sufficient used bodies onto the market that they were the same price as a used E-3. I still haven't got a single EF lens, using the 5D body as a 12 Mp digital back for the OM lenses. With the EeS focusing screen installed MF is pretty good down to quite low light levels. The upside is I get the intended AoV back so my wides are wide again and the DPP software I find far better than Oly's Raw Developers. The downside is, of course, no dust reduction in the original 5D and no IBIS, so shutter speeds need to be that much faster - though no faster than when used on an E-1 .

An example of what the OM Zuiko 50mm F1.2 can do on the 5D, stopped down to F8 because it's landscape.





I still keep my E-510 for the longer lenses. Chose to get the ZD 50-200 rather than a Canon long lens. If I were starting from scratch and had no decent OM glass the Nikon D700 would be my choice also. Canon have good quality lenses which they are refreshing, but their implementation of things like geotagging seems extremely clumsy. Thats the sort of thing Olympus should be considering for a top-end model, not art filters.

regards,

Mike

if not that then either:

• Sony FF
• Sigma

--
Raist3d (Photographer & Tools/Systems/Gui Games Developer)
Andreas Feininger (1906-1999) 'Photographers — idiots, of which there are
so many — say, “Oh, if only I had a Nikon or a Leica, I could make great
photographs.” That’s the dumbest thing I ever heard in my life. It’s
nothing but a matter of seeing, and thinking, and interest. That’s what
makes a good photograph.'

at least for a long time. I think this is like when new more powerful smaller computers came out and people thought mainframes were dead- they weren't.

I give DSLR's at least like 7-10 more years at least.

--
Raist3d (Photographer & Tools/Systems/Gui Games Developer)
Andreas Feininger (1906-1999) 'Photographers — idiots, of which there are
so many — say, “Oh, if only I had a Nikon or a Leica, I could make great
photographs.” That’s the dumbest thing I ever heard in my life. It’s
nothing but a matter of seeing, and thinking, and interest. That’s what
makes a good photograph.'

RoelHendrickx said:

But that is just a matter of subjective taste, not really in-depth research.

I come across Nikon and Canon cameras occasionally, and I like the look and feel of the (high end) Nikons better. (In entry level DSLRs, I feel that no other company offers cameras that feel as solid as Olympus). I've handled D300, D700, D3 and D2 and was not unpleased. (OTOH, I've never handled any high-end Canons). I think Nikon specifications are most in line with what I do and like doing.

But the market is evolving.

Sony has nice things up its sleeve (even if it does not have the heritage (apart from the Minolta remains).

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The "Minolta remains" is actually pretty huge. There is no way Sony would have come out with the A850/A900 the way it was, so well sorted out from the get go like that. If you have a chance to check an A900 do it. It's quite something. It's a tool that says "serious business" from the get go with a beautiful well thought out interface and surprisingly: No "Sony frills."

RoelHendrickx said:

And I am also quite charmed by some things that Pentax does well, so ultimately it might have to be Pentax (there you have it : I just wanna be a minority !)

postscript:

All of this is of course hypothetical. I am so well equipped in Oly stuff, that I would probably continue using it all until it literally fell apart, even after the hypothetical discontinuation of the system. I see this more as a question like:

"What would you do if you woke up one morning and all Olympus camera equipment had vanished from the earth?' .
--
Roel Hendrickx

lots of images : http://www.roelh.zenfolio.com

my E-3 user field report from Tunisian Sahara: http://www.biofos.com/ukpsg/roel.html

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--
Raist3d (Photographer & Tools/Systems/Gui Games Developer)
Andreas Feininger (1906-1999) 'Photographers — idiots, of which there are
so many — say, “Oh, if only I had a Nikon or a Leica, I could make great
photographs.” That’s the dumbest thing I ever heard in my life. It’s
nothing but a matter of seeing, and thinking, and interest. That’s what
makes a good photograph.'

Raist3d said:

at least for a long time. I think this is like when new more powerful smaller computers came out and people thought mainframes were dead- they weren't.

I give DSLR's at least like 7-10 more years at least.

Click to expand...

Market shares in Japan speak for themselves, but if you feel that the US wiill be exempted from innovation, that speaks too.

Am.
--
Photostream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/amalric

I've already went! I have an Epl-1; when my 6-20 dies my logical move should be Nikon, but I'm lustin a 5d MII. I will consider a Pentax, but It will never ever be a Sony! If I win the lotto I'll get a Leica, but since I don't gamble....
--
Bluephotons
Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now. Bob Dylan

you are not taking into account that you are going to see a shift in marketshare but not the potential for a set group whose needs are still better served by DSLR's.

i..e you will see a mirror less initial "land grab" but getting more % of the market after that won't be as easy.

To look at it the other way would be to saying "P&S's always sold more so DSLR's are going out" which would be equally flawed reasoning imho. In fact P&S are being squeezed out by the cell phone cameras on one end and the mirroless cameras on the other.

--
Raist3d (Photographer & Tools/Systems/Gui Games Developer)
Andreas Feininger (1906-1999) 'Photographers — idiots, of which there are
so many — say, “Oh, if only I had a Nikon or a Leica, I could make great
photographs.” That’s the dumbest thing I ever heard in my life. It’s
nothing but a matter of seeing, and thinking, and interest. That’s what
makes a good photograph.'

--
Raist3d (Photographer & Tools/Systems/Gui Games Developer)
Andreas Feininger (1906-1999) 'Photographers — idiots, of which there are
so many — say, “Oh, if only I had a Nikon or a Leica, I could make great
photographs.” That’s the dumbest thing I ever heard in my life. It’s
nothing but a matter of seeing, and thinking, and interest. That’s what
makes a good photograph.'

Raist3d said:

you are not taking into account that you are going to see a shift in marketshare but not the potential for a set group whose needs are still better served by DSLR's.

i..e you will see a mirror less initial "land grab" but getting more % of the market after that won't be as easy.

To look at it the other way would be to saying "P&S's always sold more so DSLR's are going out" which would be equally flawed reasoning imho. In fact P&S are being squeezed out by the cell phone cameras on one end and the mirroless cameras on the other.

Click to expand...

I don't think you understood what I meant. In Japan there has been a shift to mirroless in the ILS market from 20% to 40% in a few months .

Some predict that it will grab 60% in a few moths time, Thom, predicted it could reach 80%. This is a tidal change.

It doesn' have anything to do with the P&S market. these ILS cameras are in direct competition with dSLR. There might be an intermediate step like the A55 but after that the ILS market will be mainly mirrorless. The rest will probably be what is left of Canon after the shake up.

dSLR users groups will continue at Oly like with other brands, but they won't influence the market anymore, except for very specialised activities.

I think that at Oly users are particularly bind to realities, because they always were a part of a very little niche, and thought they could be self-sustaining, but then the downturn came and a hard awakening.

Personallly I think that we are already in the next stage with Micro, and that the E-5 will help selling existing stocks of lenses for 2 or 3 years, but after thaat there is no guarantee that an Oly dSLR will follow.

Am.
--
Photostream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/amalric

--
Raist3d (Photographer & Tools/Systems/Gui Games Developer)
Andreas Feininger (1906-1999) 'Photographers — idiots, of which there are
so many — say, “Oh, if only I had a Nikon or a Leica, I could make great
photographs.” That’s the dumbest thing I ever heard in my life. It’s
nothing but a matter of seeing, and thinking, and interest. That’s what
makes a good photograph.'

In case anyone hasn't noticed, sensor technology is eroding the benefits of large sensors. Sure, they're better, but even the smaller ones handily best the pro FF bodies of just a few years ago. Capabilities today are pushing into the very seldom used category. Really, what can you do with the latest and greatest that you can't do with a two year old body? Besides spending a lot of money and bickering over specs on dpr? Even the gearheads will eventually wake up to the fact that they just blew two thousand dollars and what they got isn't better in a practical sense than what they already had.

Oh, I suppose very shallow DOF is still there, but is it worth spending a few grand to get, when fast glass on 4/3 can get pretty close? Not to me, it isnt'.

Sure, the glass choice with other brands is huge, but the variance in optical quality is equally huge. It's not like HG ZD, where you just buy the lens knowing that it will exceed expectations.

I rarely go over ISO800, so the Pen's 6400 is more than enough.

Typical display of photographs these days is through an emissive RGB display where resolution requirements are laughably low. What do I need 24mp for? Not really using 12 as it is.

Video? Not my medium. It's a completely different art if you want to turn out something better than shaky youtube fare. Good video is just too much hard work for me. I prefer the zen of contemplating a composition, waiting for the sun to get in the right position, or for the critter to emerge from their nest/den.

And for some strange reason, I don't feel compelled to spend money constantly to convince myself that 'I did the right thing'.

I'd be satisfied to see the E30 updated with the Pen sensor and AA filter, and the 100 2.8. Maybe stretch the 50-200 into a 100-400.

amalric said:

Raist3d said:

you are not taking into account that you are going to see a shift in marketshare but not the potential for a set group whose needs are still better served by DSLR's.

i..e you will see a mirror less initial "land grab" but getting more % of the market after that won't be as easy.

To look at it the other way would be to saying "P&S's always sold more so DSLR's are going out" which would be equally flawed reasoning imho. In fact P&S are being squeezed out by the cell phone cameras on one end and the mirroless cameras on the other.

Click to expand...

I don't think you understood what I meant. In Japan there has been a shift to mirroless in the ILS market from 20% to 40% in a few months .

Click to expand...

Actually I don't think you understood what I said. An initial land grab can be expected. Gaining %tages after that becomes harder.

amalric said:

Some predict that it will grab 60% in a few moths time, Thom, predicted it could reach 80%. This is a tidal change.

Click to expand...

As much as I respect Thom he's not the end all be all. We are about 6 months over for a Fuji micro four thirds camera that never happened along with other mis fires. But moreover, a 20% is still quite a decent percent and margins on the more expensive equipment are higher. I am not saying the mirrorless aren't important or such but the whole DSLR = dead is a bit premature.

amalric said:

It doesn' have anything to do with the P&S market. these ILS cameras are in direct competition with dSLR. There might be an intermediate step like the A55 but after that the ILS market will be mainly mirrorless. The rest will probably be what is left of Canon after the shake up.

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No, it doesn't have to do anything with P&S- you missed my point- it was an analogy. The logic here is like saying that "P&S" are going to kill DSLR's because they sell many more of that. That doesn't happen like that.

amalric said:

dSLR users groups will continue at Oly like with other brands, but they won't influence the market anymore, except for very specialised activities.

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You mean pretty much all top professionals? I mean don't think for a second many think the EVF are still acceptable, particularly with the blackout.

amalric said:

I think that at Oly users are particularly bind to realities, because they always were a part of a very little niche, and thought they could be self-sustaining, but then the downturn came and a hard awakening.

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I think many Oly users are blind to realities too but there's a difference between saying mirror less are going to expand a lot vs DSLR's are all dead. Keep in mind that Olympus dissapearing their Dslr's is different from Nikon/Canon. There are issues that are particular to Olympus.

amalric said:

Personallly I think that we are already in the next stage with Micro, and that the E-5 will help selling existing stocks of lenses for 2 or 3 years, but after thaat there is no guarantee that an Oly dSLR will follow.

Click to expand...

Honestly until good lenses come for the format, I still say micro four thirds has some ways to go. The Cosina announcement looks promising though.

amalric said:

Am.
--
Photostream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/amalric

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--
Raist3d (Photographer & Tools/Systems/Gui Games Developer)
Andreas Feininger (1906-1999) 'Photographers — idiots, of which there are
so many — say, “Oh, if only I had a Nikon or a Leica, I could make great
photographs.” That’s the dumbest thing I ever heard in my life. It’s
nothing but a matter of seeing, and thinking, and interest. That’s what
makes a good photograph.'

I concur that predictions are usually two cents a dime, but in Japan it is happening

Since the NEX introduction the mirrorless market share has jumped from 20 to 40%, meaning that each new brand carves market share to the expense of dSLR brands.

I think that Nikon mirrorlless will carve its share without substracting from others, since there seems to be an infinite appetite for compact high IQ cameras.

Please do consider that you might not see it in the US, like I am not seeing any of this in Europe. But you should realise that we are old markets saturated by dSLR.

Mirrorless main thrust, according to both O&P will be in Asia, the emerging markets.

But even if we don't see those masses of mirrorless, their strategies are conditioned by the new production imperatives, and so their plant capacity and output.

That is the only explanation, with the downturn, of the huge delay in outputting another dSLR. I cannot but repeat that their business is now elsewhere .

It's not a fad: the Micros are ideally suited for those new Asian middle classes, which want a bit more than a P&S, but probably don't know much about photography, because they never had the money to cultivate it.

Therefore the dSLR sense of superiority is totally inappropriate to the economic realities. It may just hold for the few months or a year before we see the first Pro or semiPro Micro camera and Oly HG lens.

BTW I don't even know if the Panny 7-14, and 20mm couldn't be called that, in-camera correction being part of the new System.

It took me time, but most of my illusions about the limits of the new system, have been dispelled one after the other.

Now that O&P have the money they can fix them faster than in the past. And Cosina is already providing good glass, for those who are constantly arguing about the superiority of theirs. I see no reason why Micro can't provide good glass.

Am.
--
Photostream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/amalric

I would choose a full-frame Nikon system to return to the "film days". For the cheap and cheerful kit, a carefully chosen m4/3 system for when I don't want to lug the DSLR around. Before any of that will happen, though, the E-3 and 4/3 lenses have to die, and E-3 build quality as it is - it will be a long time.

amalric said:

I don't think you understood what I meant. In Japan there has been a shift to mirroless in the ILS market from 20% to 40% in a few months .

Some predict that it will grab 60% in a few moths time, Thom, predicted it could reach 80%. This is a tidal change.

Click to expand...

if that happened and it could, it really would change things

amalric said:

It doesn' have anything to do with the P&S market. these ILS cameras are in direct competition with dSLR. There might be an intermediate step like the A55 but after that the ILS market will be mainly mirrorless. The rest will probably be what is left of Canon after the shake up.

Click to expand...

i dont see it as an upgrade path either, although it must be said that P&S users will find their feet with an EVF before most SLR users

amalric said:

dSLR users groups will continue at Oly like with other brands, but they won't influence the market anymore, except for very specialised activities.

Click to expand...

that is until both the EVF and CDAF performance equals that of SLRs, no reason SLRs couldnt carry an EVF right now. Indeed the EVF plug may well apeaar in the next video capable SLR

amalric said:

I think that at Oly users are particularly bind to realities, because they always were a part of a very little niche, and thought they could be self-sustaining, but then the downturn came and a hard awakening.

Personallly I think that we are already in the next stage with Micro, and that the E-5 will help selling existing stocks of lenses for 2 or 3 years, but after thaat there is no guarantee that an Oly dSLR will follow.

Click to expand...

the only thing Oly can do to keep SLRs in the traffic is to differentiate more away from mFT. To me that means a bigger sensor and 'bigger' performance doing things that mFT doesnt do well.

Pro users to a certain extent just dont care about size or size matters nearly as much. Handling long lenses, big lenses, fast lenses (and we already have some of those) are all better on bigger cameras with a grip. Additional battery capacity mFT could well be larger than an SLR anyway, and micro uses more power than SLRs do.

there are avenues, you just need to look for them to see them.

--
Riley

any similarity to persons living or dead is coincidental and unintended

I've shot Nikons since the 80s, and am now in both Nikon and 4/3. So I suppose I'd still be in Nikon (plus m4/3). But realistically, if Oly decided that it didn't want to make cameras anymore, I believe that the division would probably get sold so someone else, rather than just close shop. Sort of like Sony buying Konica Minolta's dslr business. I think there are enough 4/3 users for some company to take a shot at it, if Oly decides to step away.