NEWBIE: 50D - How to take great indoor shots without using AUTO mode?

Just hoping for some advice on the 50D. My wife are looking at getting a DSLR that we can use for a while. Neither of us knows much (or even anything) about photography but the idea of having a camera that we can grow into is pretty appealing. The catalyst for the purchase is so that we can capture some great pics of our new baby girl (which I suspect may be a common reason for people to spend money on good equipment).

We tried the 50D in a store yesterday and found that when used in automatic mode, the flash was activated (even under bright store lights). We used a few other settings (which didn’t activate the flash) but they weren’t as clear and crisp. We’re really hoping to use the camera indoors and don’t want to blind our baby with the flash. Is there an easy way to avoid this? I know you could use full manual mode but can the camera also remember some of your favourite settings for next time? Keen to make it as foolproof as possible.

I’d also read some comments about the weight of the 50D. It did feel a little heavy but am I right that once you get to that end of the DSLR market, some additional weight is pretty normal?
Cheers,

After reading the manual you will learn to use the higher ISO numbers. The 50D can obtain great indoor pictures, without the flash. It just take learning how to use the camera.

Hangie33 said:

We tried the 50D in a store yesterday and found that when used in automatic mode, the flash was activated (even under bright store lights). We used a few other settings (which didn’t activate the flash) but they weren’t as clear and crisp. We’re really hoping to use the camera indoors and don’t want to blind our baby with the flash. Is there an easy way to avoid this? I know you could use full manual mode but can the camera also remember some of your favourite settings for next time? Keen to make it as foolproof as possible.

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50D is great, I think your question is more about lens than anything else. You'll need a low f-stop lens like the EF 50F/1.4 USM. This should enable you to take pictures of your baby indoor without flash. EFS 17-55 F/2.8 IS USM is another good lens if you want zoom. The camera has two custom setting banks, set your settings via manual, then save your settings to either C1 or C2. Honestly even a used 40D will fit the bill for you. The 40D has three custom banks.

Hope this helps.

Thanks for the swift reply and I was hoping that it would be a fairly easy issue to overcome. Always good to check before you spend so much money.

Still a little unsure about whether the 50D is the best way to go but from what everyone else has been saying, it seems like a pretty a nice unit so will most likely grab one while we can (and at a fair bit cheaper than the 60D or NikonD300 which we were also looking at).

i am in agreement with what the others have told you in response. i would add that there is a learning curve to DSLR's. they take fine pics in auto, but if you don't learn to shoot in manual, you are really not getting all they have to offer. i would also suggest that an external flash with which you can bounce light for good exposure without flashing bright light in baby's or other peoples eyes is a good investment, either now or later. and that for your primary purpose i am wondering if the T2i(550d) might be a better choice. many consider the image quality at least as good and it has video capability which you may enjoy for shooting kids.

Hangie33 said:

Just hoping for some advice on the 50D. My wife are looking at getting a DSLR that we can use for a while. Neither of us knows much (or even anything) about photography but the idea of having a camera that we can grow into is pretty appealing. The catalyst for the purchase is so that we can capture some great pics of our new baby girl (which I suspect may be a common reason for people to spend money on good equipment).

We tried the 50D in a store yesterday and found that when used in automatic mode, the flash was activated (even under bright store lights). We used a few other settings (which didn’t activate the flash) but they weren’t as clear and crisp. We’re really hoping to use the camera indoors and don’t want to blind our baby with the flash. Is there an easy way to avoid this? I know you could use full manual mode but can the camera also remember some of your favourite settings for next time? Keen to make it as foolproof as possible.

Click to expand...

There's no need to go to full manual mode; that just makes your life more difficult than need be. Use the semi-automatic "creative" modes (P, Av, Tv). They each have their purpose, giving you quite a bit of control while simultaneously guaranteeing you get a decent exposure in most circumstances.

To get great indoor shots, I would recommend either:

1. Like other posters recommended, a "fast" lens with a wide maximum aperture (e.g. the 50mm f/1.8 or the 50mm f/1.4). This will circumvent very slow shutter speeds which result in blur, or very high ISO settings which result in grainy photos. There is always a trade-off though... shooting at f/1.4 results in very narrow "depth of field" with in-focus subject and blurred background. It can be so narrow, though, that your baby's eyes could be in focus while the mouth is out of focus.

2. A flash unit like the 480EX or 580EX that lets you bounce flash off the ceiling. This can produce nice results without blinding your baby. (actually, indoor flash is one of the rare cases where full manual "M" mode is useful).

I think Canon's "Enjoy DSLR" site would be a great place for you to learn the basics. http://www.canon.co.jp/imaging/enjoydslr . Don't forget to look at Part 2 where they describe the Creative Zone modes on the mode dial.

Hangie33 said:

I’d also read some comments about the weight of the 50D. It did feel a little heavy but am I right that once you get to that end of the DSLR market, some additional weight is pretty normal?

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Indeed. Curious why you aren't considering a camera in the Rebel line, though. Those are lighter and are quite capable cameras. Note also that the 60D is going on sale next month and is going to be lighter than the 50D.

Thatès why lots of us go to university to study the subject. And others take night classes, or spend years reading magazines and trying to learn.

Anyway

1- flashwillnot blindtghebaby.

2- P for program does pretty much everything Auto does, except automatically turn on the flash.

3- The 50D is more camera than you need, but itès your money.

4- Get a couple of good books, and work hard at learning. (skipping Autoif you do not wantflash)

BAK

I'll chime in b/c I have taken a lot of photos of my 6 nieces/nephews and my own daughter as babies and toddlers and have learned a lot.

1 - Buy a low light lens! Especially if you don't buy a flash

My first lens was the 50 f1.8. The lower the f stop # the better the lens is in low
light. So the 50 f1.4 that someone recommended is even better in low light.

2- Buy a flash. I resisted this for years. What a mistake! Makes a WORLD of

difference bouncing a flash off of walls and ceilings. And reduces the necessity of
fast lens which you will find out are quite expensive. Shooting indoors can be
very challenging even with a fast lens like the 50 f1.4 at high ISO settings.

• High ISO settings are necessary when shooting in low light with no flash.
• With high ISO settings come noiser images

By the way bouncing a flash can avoid "blinding the baby". You shoot the flash up

at a ceiling/wall and it diffuses the light to give a nice soft photo. It takes some of

the blinding edge off the flash. You'll also find out a good strong flash makes your
outdoors photos much better

3- You don't need to shoot manual but you should know how to. Knowing what the
settings do (Aperture/Shutter Speed/ISO) will help you determine why some
photos are not coming out well. Shoot P,Tv, or Av mode.

4- Know yourself. I am an engineer and love learning things and how the camera

works etc. If you do not like learning and experimenting etc you might have a hard
time and not get the good photos you want.

5- Children get very fast which makes taking photos very difficult. later on aka learn to
walk. Fast focus can come in handy.

6- Buying into a DSLR really is an investment in a camera, lenses, and flash units. To legitimately get good photos you need to learn and get lenses and flashes. Of course you can get a 50D keep it on auto all the time but you might not get better photos than a typically canon digicam would give.

photobug4741 said:

After reading the manual you will learn to use the higher ISO numbers. The 50D can obtain great indoor pictures, without the flash. It just take learning how to use the camera.

Click to expand...

Actually, the camera comes out of the box in auto-ISO mode, so it'll go down to ISO 1600 all by itself, if need be.

To get better-looking indoor pics, just give the camera as much light as you think your baby can handle and shoot away.

The main difference between flash and non-flash is that the lens will usually be stopped-down less (meaning less will be in focus, which you might want, in order to put the backgound out of focus), and the camera will shoot at a slower shutter speed, so there's a greater chance of getting blur from camera shake.

You'll pick up this stuff quite quickly, BTW, because there really isn't all that much that you have to learn to take good pictures.

Your best bet is probably to get a third-party manual on the 50D (these books explain what the different features are and how they affect your pictures, so they're really combination camera manuals and photographic tutorials).

I don't know which ones are best, but I'm sure many people here have recommendations...

--
Canon since 1969

I also have a 50D (great camera, BTW). Here are my tips:

1. Get a Canon 50mm f/1.4 prime. I call it my "baby lens." It is fantastic for low light and it really makes for great baby shots when you shoot wide open (nice, soft, images).

2. Buy and read the book "Photographing Children Photo Workshop" by Felch and Jones. This is definitely the best photography book I own. The information is very useful, easily explained, and the photos are inspiring.

3. Get a flash and learn how to use it (e.g. bounce, etc.). A great resource for learning flash photography is http://www.strobist.com .

If you are interested, you can see some of my shots here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/bpwc/show/ . Most were taken with 50D + 50mm f/1.4 and maybe a 580EXII. I actually prefer ambient light, but the flash is nice to have when you need it.

BAK said:

Thatès why lots of us go to university to study the subject. And others take night classes, or spend years reading magazines and trying to learn.

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BAK said:

4- Get a couple of good books, and work hard at learning. (skipping Autoif you do not wantflash)

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This is BS. Anybody can operate a camera. Digital makes it even easier to learn. The real hard part is the creative realm, having an eye for what looks good or could look good (PP).

glitched said:

BAK said:

Thatès why lots of us go to university to study the subject. And others take night classes, or spend years reading magazines and trying to learn.

Click to expand...

glitched said:

4- Get a couple of good books, and work hard at learning. (skipping Autoif you do not wantflash)

Click to expand...

This is BS. Anybody can operate a camera. Digital makes it even easier to learn. The real hard part is the creative realm, having an eye for what looks good or could look good (PP).

Click to expand...

This is BS. I base this on seeing the digital photographs of my friends who did not bother to learn anything, but bought an expensive camera anyway. Even when they compose beautifully, the shot is completely ruined by horrible focus, completely blown out, overexposed subjects, and hideous white balance, among other problems. The more "advanced" they got, fiddling with the controls more, the worse the pictures got.

If you think technique and image quality does not mean anything, and composition is all that matters, then a mobile phone camera should be more than adequate.

Hi,

you have received good advice so far; I'll try to rehash in simpler terms.

A big part of shooting good pictures is exposure i.e. controlling the amount and quality of the light in a photography.

What the full-auto (green-square) does is take full control of the lighting (including the flash which is another mean to control/alter lighting). The rest of the modes are on either side of the green square. The one with funny drawing also try to automate most of the variable of lightings while the one on the other side (P,Av,Tv & M) give you more control about it, therefore YOU choose if you want to use the flash or not (using a button on the left side of the camera) hence why in some of the modes the flash didn't pop automatically.

The same modes (P,Av,Tv & M) that gives control of exposure exist on a point and shoot, a DSLR will give you an additional way by allowing lens change (F-stop). Also the larger sensor of the DSLR means that you will get less noise in your images than compared to a point and shoot at the same ISO. The f-stop people mentionned is basically how wide a lens can open i.e. the amount of light it lets through.

The single best book I have read is "Understanding Exposure" http://www.amazon.com/Understanding-Exposure-Photographs-Digital-Updated/dp/0817463003/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1283082293&sr=8-2

Lastly, as others have mentionned, there is no reason to pick a heavy camera other exists that are lighter. You can pick wonderful picture with a Rebel and they are both lighter and have a smaller grip, if this is what you and your wife prefer. A 50D won't take better pictures than a Rebel but will give you a quicker access to many controls and you may prefer its larger size if you have large hands. Note however that what better lenses tends to be heavier. In that case, you may find that an heavier body balance better with the lens... or not.

Good luck.

--

Jeff

Topaz said:

glitched said:

BAK said:

Thatès why lots of us go to university to study the subject. And others take night classes, or spend years reading magazines and trying to learn.

Click to expand...

Topaz said:

4- Get a couple of good books, and work hard at learning. (skipping Autoif you do not wantflash)

Click to expand...

This is BS. Anybody can operate a camera. Digital makes it even easier to learn. The real hard part is the creative realm, having an eye for what looks good or could look good (PP).

Click to expand...

This is BS. I base this on seeing the digital photographs of my friends who did not bother to learn anything, but bought an expensive camera anyway. Even when they compose beautifully, the shot is completely ruined by horrible focus, completely blown out, overexposed subjects, and hideous white balance, among other problems. The more "advanced" they got, fiddling with the controls more, the worse the pictures got.

If you think technique and image quality does not mean anything, and composition is all that matters, then a mobile phone camera should be more than adequate.

Click to expand...

Oh boy, here comes typical dpreview drama queen, all assumptions, sticking words in my mouth.

It does not take going to university, years, or tons of books. Tthat's only necessary if you plan to make money off of it.

Hangie33 said:

The catalyst for the purchase is so that we can capture some great pics of our new baby girl (which I suspect may be a common reason for people to spend money on good equipment).

Click to expand...

The 50D is a good choice. It will do everything you need it to do (except Video of course). It is my recommendation (fast lenses and the Micro Focus Adjustment feature go hand in hand).

Personally, I am in the same camp as the very well-respected Crocodile Gena. I prefer Natural Light and Fast lenses too. There's just something about the Look that's achieved. Here is a good recent thread with lots of different photos as examples...

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1029&thread=35440833&page=1

Another thread here...

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1029&message=35116198&q=35+children&qf=m

So my recommendation would be to get yourself a fast prime lens (something in the 24-50mm range). Your feet can do any zooming for now. Shoot in Aperture Priority (you set the Aperture for the Depth of Field you desire), and the camera automatically sets the Shutter Speed. Fast apertures also help to reduce camera shake and subject motion blur.

Best of luck!

R2

--
*
Good judgment comes from experience.
Experience comes from bad judgment.

http://www.pbase.com/jekyll_and_hyde/galleries

glitched said:

Oh boy, here comes typical dpreview drama queen, all assumptions, sticking words in my mouth.

It does not take going to university, years, or tons of books. Tthat's only necessary if you plan to make money off of it.

Click to expand...

dpreview is full of them. There is at least one in every thread. The person who is ready to go postal if somebody blasphmies the holy sacrament know as photography.

Then later you can move on to Tv mode (shutter priority) when you want to control for speed. It allows you to control just the shutter. Test it out on the running water of the sink to freeze the water and make it look like it is streaming really fast.
That is how I started.
--

Darkness is the monster and your shutter is your sword, aperture your shield and iso your armor. Strike fast with your sword and defend well with your shield and hope your armor holds up.

It's dam hard and although I don't always agree with BAK's delivery what he says here is true. If photography was easy we would never see posting asking for advice, or why is this picture OOF or what should I buy!

Of course it's hard, if the OP isn't interested in learning about photography then he will be much better served buying a high end P&S or a bridge camera rather buying a camera that cost 3 to 4 times more and he will be disappointed with the results. Some of those bridges produce stunning images even in the hands of beginners.

Thank you all so so much for the generosity of your information and time. I've definitely got some books to buy now and can't wait to get reading.

Have decided to go with the 50D and get a 50mm f1.4 lens and see how that goes before investing in a flash.

Thanks agan.

That's a good starting point. It really depends how hooked you will get into photography and what your budget is.

Flash photography is a whole different animal and for what you want it for, I would buy a cheap studio flash kit. As others have stated, good photography is hard. You need to read and practice. Read and practice. That's all. Hope your photography skills grow faster than your child