Are we expecting too much of Canon?

Every sensor needs microlens and the Foveon is no exception, especially considering that it is basically three sensors put together - giving it more depth than your usual Bayer sensors.
Of course, but you mentioned " extremely expensive microlenses", implying that they are not the usual kind.
Overall I can't say enough positive things about this camera. Sure it would be nice if it had HD video or a higher resolution screen but those aren't required to take fantastic pictures.
I am glad you like it, and I agree that it is better than the average P&S. But the thread was about improvement, and I think there is plenty of room for real improvement, and Canon is just lazy about it.
 
So now let's get on with the discussion about whether we are expecting too much of Canon :)
My 2 cents: Yes (some people) are expecting too much. It's not that Canon can't innovate, but they seem to prefer modest, incremental improvements to their camera lines. Perhaps they think this is a less risky approach to profits. (Less chance of a big product bomb.) Or perhaps they don't want to obsolete existing camera lines while the inventory exists.

Another thought: how would you feel if you bought an S90 or G11, then a few months later a new, much better, and less expensive model came out? (Think laptops, smart phones.) For better or worse, this doesn't seem likely with Canon.
 
I think that the sensors and lenses have hit physical limits, and improvements will be incremental from now on.
I said it many times here, and I am going to say it again. Sigma is a low player in the cameras market, yet they were able to come up with a compact camera smaller (in terms of volume or weight) than the G cameras, yet it has an APS-C sensor in it. I am sure that with a bit of work Canon can put an APS-C sensor and a 2x zoom lens (something like 24-55 mm) in a body the size of a G11.
Like the 1x-zoom (prime) of the Sigma, a 2x-zoom lens wouldn't sell well to most consumers either. That's why they won't likely do that.

--
Lee Jay
(see profile for equipment)
 
They are at a third and half their prices now respectively because market demand is basically zero.
If Sigma add at least x2 zoom market demand would be much higher...
I'm sure soon we'll see such cameras but i'm afraid not from Canon.
It looks like Canon lost its creativity on P&S market :(
 
I think that the sensors and lenses have hit physical limits, and improvements will be incremental from now on.
I said it many times here, and I am going to say it again. Sigma is a low player in the cameras market, yet they were able to come up with a compact camera smaller (in terms of volume or weight) than the G cameras, yet it has an APS-C sensor in it.
It's also a fixed, rather than a zoom, lens. That's the reason it's smaller, not Sigma magic lol.
I am sure that with a bit of work Canon can put an APS-C sensor and a 2x zoom lens (something like 24-55 mm) in a body the size of a G11.
I doubt it.
 
I am sure that with a bit of work Canon can put an APS-C sensor and a 2x zoom lens (something like 24-55 mm) in a body the size of a G11.
I doubt it.
Yeah, but 2 years ago would have you said it was impossible to put an F2.0 zoom lens like the s90's in a body the size of the s90?
I haven't the foggiest idea what I would have said about this 2 years ago. Of course a zoom can be put on the Sigma DP, just don't be surprised that it makes the camera body bigger.
 
Show me one picture from a P&S where a sky is shown, and I will show you the noise.
There was just a cloud challenge

Here are the winners:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1010&message=36107725

And, the field:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1010&message=36045607
Part 2
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1010&message=36085457

Have at it.

Not hectoring, just in the wings of buying an S95 and learning.
Ok, can you please tell me which specific image you mean? And I want it to be full (original) size, and not processed.
 
It's also a fixed, rather than a zoom, lens. That's the reason it's smaller, not Sigma magic lol.
The Sigma magic consists in the fact that they did it. No other company made a compact (pocketable) P&S with an APS-C sensor. If I can get nearly perfect quality for 300 bucks at 28mm, or "meh" quality for 450-500 bucks at 28-140mm, I will chose the perfect quality. After all, I can always get a small travel zoom to cover the other FLs (or use my DSLR if I have to).
I am sure that with a bit of work Canon can put an APS-C sensor and a 2x zoom lens (something like 24-55 mm) in a body the size of a G11.
I doubt it.
Why?
 
Ok, can you please tell me which specific image you mean? And I want it to be full (original) size, and not processed.
I'm sure if you select an image and PM the forum member/photographer they'd gladly provide you with the initial, un-pp'd shot.

Honestly, I don't mean to be difficult.
 
I'm sure if you select an image and PM the forum member/photographer they'd gladly provide you with the initial, un-pp'd shot.

Honestly, I don't mean to be difficult.
The idea was for all to see those samples, so they must already be available to everyone. The only non large sensor P&S that can give you an almost noiseless sky is the Fuji F30/31 cameras. All the other cameras will either give you noisy skies, or juse use NR trickery to smooth out the sky, but also remove some details.
 
We all want DSLR like quality from something that cant physically give it with the same flexibility.
--
This comment and the entire thread reminded me of a comment Casey Stengel made when he asked about the less than adequate shortstop he was starting for the Mets (I can't recall his name - he was from Latin America), and Casey explained to the effect that the SS was only so big and only so fast and could only cover so much ground - and he was doing it the best that he could at his position.

Canon is in the business of making a profit for it's shareholders, and not a photographers "Make a Wish" foundation, and it's doing the best it can in its business - very well indeed,

. . . except for the rear dial on the S90 ; )
 
The idea was for all to see those samples, so they must already be available to everyone. The only non large sensor P&S that can give you an almost noiseless sky is the Fuji F30/31 cameras. All the other cameras will either give you noisy skies, or juse use NR trickery to smooth out the sky, but also remove some details.
The Fuji F30/31s are great cameras but they use lots of "NR trickery" according to a very competent forum contributor and noise expert (whose name escapes me at the moment). I just pass this along and cannot verify it, but he convinced me. This subject spawned endless debates on the Fuji forums a while back.

--
Don
http://www.pbase.com/dond
 
We're not expecting to much, not at all. Canon can do it any old time they want to. They just need the right Canon reasons. That's why we are sometimes disappointed, because we may see some product release coming and we're thinking this might be the one where they put some effort into it. We all dam well know they can do it if they want to.

It will happen one of these days. A few years ago it was Panasonic that laid out some good innovative stuff, Sony seems to be doing a bit more this year. Is it Canon's turn next year of Nikon's,.. Fuji??
 
Canon is in the business of making a profit for it's shareholders, and not a photographers "Make a Wish" foundation, and it's doing the best it can in its business - very well indeed,

. . . except for the rear dial on the S90 ; )
lets not forget canon make some very high end stills and video gear that pros swear by, not just the toys discussed in this forum.

Im sure a rear wheel that some people insist on putting their thumb or finger on is the least of their worries and not a big profit making decision.

After all, people will complain about anything they dont like, you cant please everybody all of the time, and some people will never be happy no matter what.

IMO of course.

--
Dave.

Gallery @
http://davepearce.smugmug.com
S90 Shots @ http://www.flickr.com/photos/davebass5/sets/72157622647970370/
FZ38 Shots @ http://www.flickr.com/photos/davebass5/sets/72157623847343904/

Videos @ http://www.vimeo.com/user464364/videos
 

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