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Nikon rumors say D7000 = D90+ 100% + 16-18MP + 25600ISO + mag alloy + ...

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rhlpetrus said:
Thus, actually, the DX line will go back to the earlier times of 3 body lines: D50, D70, D200. Now, D3xxx, D5xxx, D7xxx. Then it's clear D5xxx line will be upscaled to a D90's body level, like D7xxx is moving up to Dxxx line level.
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I think that Nikon tries to move the entire line up to camera bodies without build in AF engines. They will keep the AF engine in the pro and semi-pro bodies for the next generations, but the consumer lineup won't get the AF engine.

I think the successor of the D5000 will indeed be moved up a bit to the place of the D90, but without AF engine. All new camera models get more features that move them closer to the current next model (D5000 -> D90....) and slightly higher prices while still being cheaper than the current higher level body (D5100 slightly cheaper than D90).

The D400 successor will probably be a FX camera, slightly below the D700 (features and price) while the the D800 gets more features and a higher price.

Looking at the recent price trends Nikon raises the prices of the gear. They can't just increase the prices for the cameras because the cameras have certain price slots they are in, but if Nikon basically creates a new camera line up they can position the models the way they want and increase the prices.

In short: every model gets moved up a bit without replacing the model one step higher in the line up. This way the low end makes room for the mirror less system and the AF engine becomes a feature of the higher end bodies.

I think Nikon can get away with this if the replacement models offer enough to get the customers think about how many AF-D lenses thy have and if the newer AF-S lenses aren't better...

Disclaimer: I think it's a bad idea to remove the AF engine. I'm just trying to guess what Nikon will do. I do think that with a good AF-S lens line up for DX the need for an in camer AF engine is small for most or many customers.
 
I'm waiting for an FX body no larger than the D90. Even the D300 is more weight than I want to carry. The size of my Nikon FA SLR would be fine, even with the power winder added, it's a great size camera. So, guess I'll have a long wait?
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If Today is the First Day of the Rest of Your Life, How Will You Spend It?
 
Maybe yes, maybe no. If D7000 is as rumored, they need to keep a midrange DX camera like D90 in the lineup. It's one of their differentials, at the right price point (body

Beginners don't need that, but there area lots and lots of photogs out there with D80/D90s waiting for video to get better and some other sensor goodies, who don't want a heaviear/larger body (100% VF requires larger body, selaing requires it to be heavier), so won't be getting this D7000.

D80/D90 are in a very nice market point, that's why D90 is best-selling dslr, all makes, in some markets (Japan, according to Thom) and still in the Top5 at Amazon, 2 years after launch.

Nikon can't be so dumb to drop it. Pentaprism, AF engine and dual wheels in a small/light package are what make it such a successful body line. It's a nononsense body for enthusiasts (the reason I got and still use the D80).
myzel said:
rhlpetrus said:
Thus, actually, the DX line will go back to the earlier times of 3 body lines: D50, D70, D200. Now, D3xxx, D5xxx, D7xxx. Then it's clear D5xxx line will be upscaled to a D90's body level, like D7xxx is moving up to Dxxx line level.
Click to expand...
I think that Nikon tries to move the entire line up to camera bodies without build in AF engines. They will keep the AF engine in the pro and semi-pro bodies for the next generations, but the consumer lineup won't get the AF engine.

I think the successor of the D5000 will indeed be moved up a bit to the place of the D90, but without AF engine. All new camera models get more features that move them closer to the current next model (D5000 -> D90....) and slightly higher prices while still being cheaper than the current higher level body (D5100 slightly cheaper than D90).

The D400 successor will probably be a FX camera, slightly below the D700 (features and price) while the the D800 gets more features and a higher price.

Looking at the recent price trends Nikon raises the prices of the gear. They can't just increase the prices for the cameras because the cameras have certain price slots they are in, but if Nikon basically creates a new camera line up they can position the models the way they want and increase the prices.

In short: every model gets moved up a bit without replacing the model one step higher in the line up. This way the low end makes room for the mirror less system and the AF engine becomes a feature of the higher end bodies.

I think Nikon can get away with this if the replacement models offer enough to get the customers think about how many AF-D lenses thy have and if the newer AF-S lenses aren't better...

Disclaimer: I think it's a bad idea to remove the AF engine. I'm just trying to guess what Nikon will do. I do think that with a good AF-S lens line up for DX the need for an in camer AF engine is small for most or many customers.
Click to expand...
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rhlpetrus said:
quibobjinn said:
That's not currently known. Considering the anticipated price, though, I'd say it will have a motor.
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And the reason is, as some are already speculating, that D7000 will be the top DX camera, replacing D300s, with D400 or whatever name it gets, being a baby D700, a simpler and cheaper FX body in the 1,800-2,000USD price point.

Thus, actually, the DX line will go back to the earlier times of 3 body lines: D50, D70, D200. Now, D3xxx, D5xxx, D7xxx. Then it's clear D5xxx line will be upscaled to a D90's body level, like D7xxx is moving up to Dxxx line level.

The D70-D80-D90 sold so well because they are a line of cameras that an enthusiast likes, with dual wheels, AF engine, DoF preview, and all controls w/o requiring to go to a menu, at 1,000 USD body price. Nikon needs such a camera. My guess it'll be the D5100 next, same sensor as D7000, same video, but D90's body class.

At the bottom, maybe we'll see, soon, an EVIL (mirrorless, interchangeable camera) line arriving.
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If you're right it's a case of Nikon and Canon manouvering to avoid only to collide. Their lines used to be interleaved but they've moved face to face, so we have at entry level D3x000 facing x000D (with the 1000D surely in urgent need of replacement). At advanced entry level D5x00 facing xx0D (with some differences in spec, but the D5000 needing upgrade soon). At low enthusiast the D90 (to become D7x00) now facing the x0D, with the 60D having a plastic body to move down the renge a bit and address the D90 at pro am level the 7D (Mk x) facing the Dx00 (or maybe D9000). If what you say is true, just as Canon moves where Nikon is, Nikon's moving to where Canon was. I'm not sure- I think there's still room for a DX model above the D7000, with Dx level AF and frame rate. I still expect the D400 (or D9000) to be a mini D4 like the D300 was a mini D3. They'll keep it to the pro release cycle and s upgrades, even if it means sales get a bit sluggish at the end of the cycle - just builds a bit more pent-up demand for the new one.
 
Tyrone Wellhung said:
I still expect the D400 (or D9000) to be a mini D4 like the D300 was a mini D3. They'll keep it to the pro release cycle and s upgrades, even if it means sales get a bit sluggish at the end of the cycle - just builds a bit more pent-up demand for the new one.
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If so, what would be the sensor? The one coming with D7000 (rumor says 16 or 18 MP)? If so and rest of D7000's specs are true (I doubt 100% VF and metal frame), then only AF could differentiate them, not enough IMHO.

September will tell what's what. One thing I know: Nikon has to keep the 1,000 USD body in the lineup, similar to D90. It's one of their big success stories, since D70. If it'll be a D5100 or Nikon will have another line in-between D5100 and D700 (D6000?), not known now. If latter, then actually D7000 replaces D300s, not D90.
--
Renato.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rhlpedrosa/
OnExposure member
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Good shooting and good luck
(after Ed Murrow)
 
A next generation of prosumer DX body should improve on the D300s. The spec you mention doesn't - so the thing that is missing is the improvements. On that basis, it seems the D7000 spec is merely a souped up D90 replacement, not a D300s replacement.
rhlpetrus said:
But point is that this rumored D7000 IS the D300s' replacement: madnesium alloy body, 100% VF (a big pro spec), dual card lots, fast fps, new 39 point AF system (likely for video), etc.

What's left out from D300s?
Apollo18 said:
If what you say happens, it will be more like a discontinuation of the D300 line. It's weird to call any FX body a D300s replacement, as the sensor characteristics would be so completly different.

Also, if Nikon does not produce another prosumer or pro DX body after the D300s, IMO this would a be huge mistake, because they would be left without a competitor to the 7D. For example, a large numer of wildlife shooters would be left without a Nikon body camera having a high enough spec for their needs.
rhlpetrus said:
quibobjinn said:
That's not currently known. Considering the anticipated price, though, I'd say it will have a motor.
Click to expand...
And the reason is, as some are already speculating, that D7000 will be the top DX camera, replacing D300s, with D400 or whatever name it gets, being a baby D700, a simpler and cheaper FX body in the 1,800-2,000USD price point.

Thus, actually, the DX line will go back to the earlier times of 3 body lines: D50, D70, D200. Now, D3xxx, D5xxx, D7xxx. Then it's clear D5xxx line will be upscaled to a D90's body level, like D7xxx is moving up to Dxxx line level.

The D70-D80-D90 sold so well because they are a line of cameras that an enthusiast likes, with dual wheels, AF engine, DoF preview, and all controls w/o requiring to go to a menu, at 1,000 USD body price. Nikon needs such a camera. My guess it'll be the D5100 next, same sensor as D7000, same video, but D90's body class.

At the bottom, maybe we'll see, soon, an EVIL (mirrorless, interchangeable camera) line arriving.
--
Renato.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rhlpedrosa/
OnExposure member
http://www.onexposure.net/

Good shooting and good luck
(after Ed Murrow)
Click to expand...
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My photos:
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Click to expand...
--
Renato.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rhlpedrosa/
OnExposure member
http://www.onexposure.net/

Good shooting and good luck
(after Ed Murrow)
Click to expand...
--
My photos:
http://nickburtonswildlifephotography.blogspot.com/
http://nickburton.smugmug.com/
 
The rumored specs of the 7000 certainly does better the D300s, with significant increase in low noise performance, and pixel count while retaining speed, an new generation AF engine, D3100 like video and cast mag casing. I would take one in a second.
--
Stan
St Petersburg Russia
 
rhlpetrus said:
Tyrone Wellhung said:
I still expect the D400 (or D9000) to be a mini D4 like the D300 was a mini D3. They'll keep it to the pro release cycle and s upgrades, even if it means sales get a bit sluggish at the end of the cycle - just builds a bit more pent-up demand for the new one.
Click to expand...
If so, what would be the sensor? The one coming with D7000 (rumor says 16 or 18 MP)? If so and rest of D7000's specs are true (I doubt 100% VF and metal frame), then only AF could differentiate them, not enough IMHO.
Click to expand...
I would expect the sensor to stay as it is in the D300s. As I said, I'm not sure they'll mind D300s sales slowing (or virtually stopping) towards the end of the cycle - that much is inevitable if they keep with the four year pro model cycle and the seems annual - biennial consumer cycle. In the end, they don't mind which models they're selling, so well as they're selling. I suppose at a pincth they could put in the D7000 sensor and have a D310 'generation and threequarters', but I don't expect that. D300s as it is until the D400 co-released with the D4 (and the same 24MP as I expect in the D4) with all the whizzy features the D4's going to have (off the sensor PDAF is the big rumour)
rhlpetrus said:
September will tell what's what. One thing I know: Nikon has to keep the 1,000 USD body in the lineup, similar to D90. It's one of their big success stories, since D70. If it'll be a D5100 or Nikon will have another line in-between D5100 and D700 (D6000?), not known now. If latter, then actually D7000 replaces D300s, not D90.
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I expect D5100 is D5000 with D3100 sensor an electronics. D7000 stays at D90 price point, however much spec Nikon jams in it. D300s stays as is, even if it only sells a handful, D400 released with D4. D800 released somewhat later. If you look at Canon, they have the same issues exactly with range inversion. It's a product of a slow pro product cycle and a fast consumer one.
 
I disgree. Less AF points and most significantly probably a D90-like body (i.e. smaller, less external; controls). As for the sensor you mentioned, even the D3100 has a higher pixel count so that proves nothing.

The point is if the D7000 replaces both cameras like you suggest, it would have to fall somewhere between the two in terms of spec. Given that some improvements are expected in any event, this would inevitably fall below the spec that could be expected of a straight D300s replacement. Hence, a lot of unhappy D300s users with no clear upgrade to go for.

Anyway, this is all moot - IMO there will be a DX D400 next year, directly replacing the D300s.
spbStan said:
The rumored specs of the 7000 certainly does better the D300s, with significant increase in low noise performance, and pixel count while retaining speed, an new generation AF engine, D3100 like video and cast mag casing. I would take one in a second.
--
Stan
St Petersburg Russia
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http://nickburtonswildlifephotography.blogspot.com/
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rhlpetrus said:
quibobjinn said:
That's not currently known. Considering the anticipated price, though, I'd say it will have a motor.
Click to expand...
And the reason is, as some are already speculating, that D7000 will be the top DX camera, replacing D300s, with D400 or whatever name it gets, being a baby D700, a simpler and cheaper FX body in the 1,800-2,000USD price point.

Thus, actually, the DX line will go back to the earlier times of 3 body lines: D50, D70, D200. Now, D3xxx, D5xxx, D7xxx. Then it's clear D5xxx line will be upscaled to a D90's body level, like D7xxx is moving up to Dxxx line level.

The D70-D80-D90 sold so well because they are a line of cameras that an enthusiast likes, with dual wheels, AF engine, DoF preview, and all controls w/o requiring to go to a menu, at 1,000 USD body price. Nikon needs such a camera. My guess it'll be the D5100 next, same sensor as D7000, same video, but D90's body class.

At the bottom, maybe we'll see, soon, an EVIL (mirrorless, interchangeable camera) line arriving.
--
Renato.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rhlpedrosa/
OnExposure member
http://www.onexposure.net/

Good shooting and good luck
(after Ed Murrow)
Click to expand...
Seems weird to release a camera that will replace the D300s instead of a camera that will replace the D90 as seems to be indicated. The D300 segment has hardly been a bestseller and the D300s is still pretty new. This doesn't make sense. Why not release a D5100 or a D6000 instead?

I believe this new camera will come in at the same price point as when the D90 launched. Even though it seems to be a big upgrade Nikon still has to compete with the Canon 60d and 7d. Upping the real D300s replacement to FX is not a good solution, Nikon still needs a pro DX camera. DX is better than FX for some pro users and the D7000 doesn't really seem to have all the bells and whistles a real D300s replacement needs.
 
Apollo18 said:
I disgree. Less AF points and most significantly probably a D90-like body (i.e. smaller, less external; controls). As for the sensor you mentioned, even the D3100 has a higher pixel count so that proves nothing.
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Who is not to say that the 39 AF points will not be better than the 51 from the d300s? The d300/700/3s/3x focusing is 15 cross types in a square at the center of the viewfinder. More and more spread out cross types would certainly make for a better AF point array layout than what nikon currently offers.
 
It could be, but would it be better than the AF in a proper D400 replacement? I doubt it. And what about the smaller body? I dont know any D300 user who would like to go back to a D80/D90 type body.

Any camera which aims to replace both the D90 and D300s would need to fall below the standard of a camera that is a straight D300s replacement so that the price is not too far above that of the D90. Is this point really that subtle?? It seems obvious to me.
RedFox88 said:
Apollo18 said:
I disgree. Less AF points and most significantly probably a D90-like body (i.e. smaller, less external; controls). As for the sensor you mentioned, even the D3100 has a higher pixel count so that proves nothing.
Click to expand...
Who is not to say that the 39 AF points will not be better than the 51 from the d300s? The d300/700/3s/3x focusing is 15 cross types in a square at the center of the viewfinder. More and more spread out cross types would certainly make for a better AF point array layout than what nikon currently offers.
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Apollo18 said:
It could be, but would it be better than the AF in a proper D400 replacement? I doubt it.
Click to expand...
But you have no idea what the d400 AF system will be. My guess is nikon will roll out more cross type AF sensors. So yes, 39 can be better than 51 is each sensor is better and the better sensors are well spread out instead of all in the center. How do you know that nikon doesn't have plans to make the d400 39 all cross type AF points in a very well spread out array?
 
Apollo18 said:
....I dont know any D300 user who would like to go back to a D80/D90 type body.
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I would love to. The AF performance of the D90 for action work is not good enough thus I shoot a D300. If the D90 successor addresses this aspect I'll go to the smaller body in a heartbeat.
--
Holmes
 
The point, yet again, is that a more expensive straight D400 replacement would tend, logically, to have a better spec than a camera which seeks to replace both the d90 and d300 in a single package. This is a general truism, irrespective of speculative comparisons of the number 51 with the number 39.

Thus, if there were no direct D300 replacement appeared, and if instead we got a camera which seeks to replace the D90 and D300 (which is what is suggested a few posts back), people who have been looking forward to a direct D300 replacement would tend to be disapointed.
RedFox88 said:
Apollo18 said:
It could be, but would it be better than the AF in a proper D400 replacement? I doubt it.
Click to expand...
But you have no idea what the d400 AF system will be. My guess is nikon will roll out more cross type AF sensors. So yes, 39 can be better than 51 is each sensor is better and the better sensors are well spread out instead of all in the center. How do you know that nikon doesn't have plans to make the d400 39 all cross type AF points in a very well spread out array?
Click to expand...
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My photos:
http://nickburtonswildlifephotography.blogspot.com/
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