Why doesn't Nikkor make a stellar 50mm?

I vote for the Nikon 50/1.4G over the Canon 50/1.2L. The Canon 1.2L has notorious focus shift issues. I have seen some of my Canon shooting friends go back to the 1.4 USM after using the 1.2L for that reason. But to compare it to the 1.4G from Nikon... If you go to a certain Canon-biased website whose initials are TDP, and you look at their lens comparator, you'd see the Nikon 1.4G beating the Canon 1.2L at f/1.4. At stopped down apertures, such as 2.0, 4.0, and 5.6, the Nikon easily beats the 1.2L in the corners, can match it in the center, and they trade blows for balance in the mid frame, with the Nikon being generally better balanced across the frame due to the Canon's weak corners... I've edited many images from the 1.2L when said friends shoot with me, and I have never been impressed with it overall. It turns out brilliant images from time to time, but it misses and turns out mushy way too often.

I have had focus issues with the 50/1.4G to be fair, but they have not been shift issues. Rather, it has been that I find the newest Nikon fast primes (the 50/1.4G and 24/1.4G) to be less capable of focusing on certain textures as compared to older primes and current zooms such as 14-24G and 24-70G. Nikon has no answer for this phenomenon, but I'm hoping they'll eventually address it in camera firmware. I do believe at this point that it is a software issue due to a couple of pieces of evidence from my own testing: First, if you manually focus the lens with "electronic rangefinder" focus confirmation in the viewfinder (uses the same phase detect sensor as regular autofocus), the worst and widest focus misses disappear on the 50/1.4G, which is to say that taking the AF algorithm out of the equation eliminates the worst errors (ironically it may also eliminate the very best instances of focus, depending on how nimble your fingertips are). Secondly, both of these lenses are extremely accurate in low light on any texture when using Live View contrast detect focus, which indicates that their motors are accurate and that they can "see" well; for instance, I have found that Live View contrast detect can focus on a fine wood grain pattern of a closet door from a distance of 10 feet in a room where the exposure was 1/125s f/1.4 @ ISO 6400. That is something that phase detect focus could never do.

All that being said, I think the 50/1.4G is optically a bargain. If you want a better 50, you should consider converting the last version of the Leica R Summilux 50mm. For way less money, you could convert a Summicron, but the gain would be less dramatic and not necessarily visible until stopped down around 5.6.

--
David Hill
http://www.bayareaweddingphotographer.com
San Francisco & San Jose, CA | Austin, TX
Wedding Photographer and Apparent Gearhead
 
(FYI: Please don't interpret this as a flame.

Either you agree with the premise or you don't. My opinion is my alone and it is described below.)

I'm not taking about acceptable, but a great 50mm. Leica does it (they've elevated it into an art, a matter of honor even), Zeiss does it, hell even Canons 50s are way better than Nikkors versions.
Well, but they aren't that perfect either. I do use the f1.0 and the f1.2 versions and did use Nikon before. I would suggest to have a close look onto the Sigma version - i did love it on my D700. :)

Andy
--
whatever you do - do it with passion.

http://www.gefrorene-zeit.de
 
LOL ...do you want to borrow my monitor as well ...if you cannot see with whats already available to you then whats the point, all those years of using Leica, Nikon, Canon and Zeiss and this is where you still are ...LOL.
The Leica is indeed somethign to write home about, but as Pandalee already reported, the Zeiss 50mm is nothing special, especially given it's price point. The Canon 1.2L has been bagged to death on the Canon forums. The 50G is not what I woudl call spectacular, but it's easily as good as the Zeiss plus it comes with AF.
You boys can read an MTF cant you ...would you like me to send you one, better yet panda already has all the zf lenses 28 35 50/2 85 and 100 ...go visit him, he's got tons of pics.
That explains a lot. Panda uses his to take pitures, while you're too busy reading MTF charts.
You think I have to justify why Im selling my 50G with proof of a pic, I suppose I could take one of my @ss and post it, what size would you like?
So far you've stonewalled for 2 posts, instead of producing a very simple comparison.
 
I have heard great things about the Sigma, though some reports have suggested that oddly enough, it isn't that sharp stopped down.
Well, but they aren't that perfect either. I do use the f1.0 and the f1.2 versions and did use Nikon before. I would suggest to have a close look onto the Sigma version - i did love it on my D700. :)
 
Curious why you consider the Zeiss a great lens. It is sharp (when stopped down) and well built but optically it has its problems. Out of focus areas can be pretty harsh/busy and mine is prone to ghosting/CAs wide open.

Nick
 
People you're acting nothing but juvenile.

I shouldn't have mentioned Leica, Zeiss or Canon b/c it turned this whole "conversation" into a bashing game of comparative nature and frankly you guys can't handle that without getting personal. Totally tragic and it puts me of from posting in this forum.

But let me rephrase:

-I'm not happy with the current Nikkor lineup of 50s (I am, however, happy with other Nikkor lineups. Lenses that have that special unquantifiable "umpf" and optical performance I desire) .

-I don't care about other brands 50s performances (for arguments sake let's say they suck, how does that help me?). Obviously it let's you guys sleep better at night which is sad beyond belief.

§1 You don't agree? Superduper fine and I'm happy for you, but can I place have a god damn opinion in this place??

"Produce the evidence!!!" Why in the world should I do that?? If you don't agree see §1. I've been around long enough to know how to use a lens. To make the best of it and use it in it's right environment, to judge its strengths and weaknesses. The permutation are endless, there's lighting, aperture, distance, colours, subject, surfaces etc. The endless permutations make it impossible to narrow down when something performs great, but you develop a feel for it as a photographer if you use a lens often. I love doing this, it makes me feel connected with my gear and I know I can make the lens perform better than when some one uses it for the first time. I have never made this connection with any of the Nikkor 50s (with possible exception of the 1.2, but it had a very limited usability range in my hands at least) I've used or seen this "umpf" from other photographers using them. Again, you don't agree; see §1.
 
I have to say I've been very pleased with my 50G... might even call it stellar. Focuses fast, I use it for sports. Sharp wide open, and frankly I'm very pleased with the out of focus areas. At first the focal length got some getting used to on my D300 but now I love it and it and the 80-200 are my prime portrait lens.

I'd say well done Nikon!

Best,

Don



 
Was that your n:th post with variations of that exact content? You don't seem to be a happy person and you are certainly not contributing.
 
I'm not taking about acceptable, but a great 50mm. Leica does it (they've elevated it into an art, a matter of honor even), Zeiss does it, hell even Canons 50s are way better than Nikkors versions.
Yes - but - - and it is a big but - the Leica costs more than a D300s and is not AF, and the Zeiss costs a lot more than the Nikon lenses - and is not AF.

Neither the Nikon or Canon 1.8 are "state of the art", the Nikon f1.4 G is ahead of the Canon f1.4, and although Nikon does not have the equivalent of the Canon f1.2 the Canon costs quite a bit more than a D300s. Unlike the Leica the Canon does have AF :)

You could equally ask why Canon does not make a 14-24, a 24-70, a 200-400, or a 60mm G to equal Nikon.
Neither camera maker has an identical range of camera bodies or lenses.

--
Leonard Shepherd

Practicing and thinking can do more for good photography than buying or consuming.
 
my take is that Nikon has bigger fish to fry

the 50/1.4G is already "very good" for most people. And at $450 a pop, you need high volume against a saturated market to make good profit.

Compare that with 24/1.4G, which nearly matches Leica offerings. The 14-24, which still lacks a Canon equivalent. An ancient 85/1.4D that still manages to fend off any offense.

There's always a tiny segment who wants Zeiss quality at Sigma costs. And for the rest of us, we prefer Nikon filling in their gaps instead of chasing diminishing returns.
 
Yes - but - - and it is a big but - the Leica costs more than a D300s and is not AF, and the Zeiss costs a lot more than the Nikon lenses - and is not AF.
They were examples. I'm fully aware of this. It's an apples and oranges example I know, please do not belabour the point further.

I am not asking Nikkor to produce a perfect 50 for $300.
You could equally ask why Canon does not make a 14-24, a 24-70, a 200-400, or a 60mm G to equal Nikon.
Neither camera maker has an identical range of camera bodies or lenses.
I'm not on a canon-system so I see no poin in that, but since you brought it up you in essence agree, Nikkors 50s are not that great (but their zooms are). Funny you should mention the 70-200 btw, which is beaten by the new canon equivalent and the other two are between leaps in this game of constant leapfrogging (BUT THIS IS 100% BESIDE MY POINT).
 
Funny you should mention the 70-200 btw, which is beaten by the new canon equivalent and the other two are between leaps in this game of constant leapfrogging (BUT THIS IS 100% BESIDE MY POINT).
I agree it is 100% of topic.

However on dpreview has put this Canon slightly ahead, and the whole of Europe (TIPA) decided the Nikon was the best new lens introduction in the last 12 months.

Whether Nikon are going to launch new lenses or bodies soon will be know soon as Photokina opens in less than 5 weeks.

--
Leonard Shepherd

Practicing and thinking can do more for good photography than buying or consuming.
 
Right here on DpReview they have tested the following 50mm lenses in the following order:

Jan 2008 Canon 50mm f/1.8
Aug 2008 Sigma 50mm f/1.4
Sept 2008 Olympus 50mm f/2
Sept 2008 Canon 50mm f/1.4
Sept 2008 Nikon 50mm f/1.4D
Nov 2008 Pentax 50mm f/1.4
Dec 2008 Minolta 50mm f/1.4
Dec 2008 Sony 50mm f/1.4
Jan 2009 Nikon 50mm f/1.8

and then finally, after all of those 50's were tested, in June of 2009 they tested the Nikon 50mm f/1.4G and having tested all of these other 50mm lenses in their conclusion of the Nikon 50mm f/1.4G review they ended with this statement:

"Essentially, with this lens Nikon has produced perhaps the best-balanced full-frame fast 50mm autofocus prime we've yet seen."

If you like to compare to the MF options Bjorn Rorslett rates the Nikon 50mm f/1.4G a 5 on a scale of 1 to 5 and he rates the Zeiss 50mm f/1.4 a 4.5 out of 5.

I guess you can moan about Nikon's 50mm offerings if you like, but considering what your options would be if you shot with the other brands of cameras I really don't see the point. With the Nikon 50mm f/1.4G you are already at the top of the heap.

--
My kit - D200, 10.5mm f/2.8D, 35mm f/1.8G, 50mm f/1.4G & 70-300VR
Wifes kit – D80, 18-105VR
SB800, SB600 and other misc lighting equipment

Lenses worth mentioning owned and sold– 12-24 f/4, 17-55 f/2.8, 35-70 f/2.8, 80-200 f/2.8, 20mm f/2.8, 35mm f/2, 50mm f/1.8, 50mm f/1.4D, 60mm f/2.8, 85mm, f/1.8. 105mm f/2D-DC, 180mm f/2.8, 300mm f/4D-ED
 
I've read though a great deal of the discussion, and I'm afraid it's not going anywhere.

So I'd like start with one question for you:

How much would you be willing to spend for your ideal 50mm Nikkor?

I think most people are defensive because they see the cost for the current 50s to be quite reasonable compared to what they provide.

Perhaps this will shed some light on your expectations and the discussion can move forward in a more productive line of thought.
 
(FYI: Please don't interpret this as a flame.

Either you agree with the premise or you don't. My opinion is my alone and it is described below.)

I'm not taking about acceptable, but a great 50mm. Leica does it (they've elevated it into an art, a matter of honor even),
If your willing to pay the price see

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/332585-USA/Leica_11891_50mm_f_1_4_Summilux_M.html

--
Dave
http://www.rosser.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk
http://www.pbase.com/dgrosser
 
I would rather add a few bucks to that total and get a refurbished 200mm f2 vr. If I'm going to waste money I at least one to do it with style. Happy shooting.
(FYI: Please don't interpret this as a flame.

Either you agree with the premise or you don't. My opinion is my alone and it is described below.)

I'm not taking about acceptable, but a great 50mm. Leica does it (they've elevated it into an art, a matter of honor even),
If your willing to pay the price see

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/332585-USA/Leica_11891_50mm_f_1_4_Summilux_M.html

--
Dave
http://www.rosser.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk
http://www.pbase.com/dgrosser
 
Isn't that at least in the ballpark of 1.4/24 and considering Leica as a brand demand a few extra Ks and with a much smaller customer base chances are a similarly great nikon would cost much, much less.

And Nikkor have
1.4/85 $1000
2/105 DC $1000
2/135 DC $1300
2/200 $4200

1.4/35 (yes, I include this one, not b/c of any MTR chart, but because it has that special something) $1000
2.8/180 $800
etc..

... They are all [imo] exceptional lenses (I haven't used them all, but I have seen consistent results).

I'm saying that no [imo] Nikkor 50mm live up to the IQ these lenses do (or the price o/c), and I can't figure out why. Why don't they even produce a $1000 50mm lens when they have no problem (strategically mind, not technically) producing lenses of every other length for that price? It's, I'm sure, a strategical discussion, not a technical one and I'm asking why. That is all.
 
my take is that Nikon has bigger fish to fry

the 50/1.4G is already "very good" for most people. And at $450 a pop, you need high volume against a saturated market to make good profit.

Compare that with 24/1.4G, which nearly matches Leica offerings. The 14-24, which still lacks a Canon equivalent. An ancient 85/1.4D that still manages to fend off any offense.

There's always a tiny segment who wants Zeiss quality at Sigma costs. And for the rest of us, we prefer Nikon filling in their gaps instead of chasing diminishing returns.
.

This is exactly the reason.

.
 

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