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K-x and Shooting Theater Performance

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DRabbit

DRabbit

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Show will be a large school auditorium. Typical stage lighting. It's a musical. I'll be working with the K-x + 50-135mm f/2.8 DA*

In the past I've typically shot with an Olympus dSLR. I would shoot in shutter priority mode trying to keep it AT LEAST at 1/80, but always pushing for higher if possible. I figured I'd do the same thing with the K-x setup.

Just a few questions...

I like to shoot JPG for these shows so I can turn the photos around to the director and other parents quickly. How should I set WB? Will auto WB in this tricky lighting situation function okay? Should I expect worse performance than the Oly e620? If it's about the same, I'm okay with that.

Highlight clipping can be a problem in a theater setting to begin with... is this a signicant concern with the K-x? Should I set exposure compensation or always shoot one-stop faster than the meter wants me to?

Shows are typically about 2 hours... and it isn't usual for me to shoot 300-500 photos per night. Will battery life be a concern? I'd figure the answer is no, but thought I'd ask...

Any other helpful tips for theater/stage lighting and performances would be helpful! I'm not a newbie to this, just a newbie with Pentax!

Thanks!

Amy
--



Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing which ones to keep.
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Amy,

highlight clipping might be a problem, there is not that much to recover with the K-x so I would take the conservative side, maybe add a -0.5 EV compensation, and take care of it in software. There won't be much noise with the K-x anyway. But check the histogram while you are shooting (you have 4 of them)

300-500 shots should be easily doable if your batteries are charged properly, but you should always take a set of spares just in case of. I've kept my Lithiums for that (and I don't intend to use them for the years to come).

Can't help with the white balance since I always shoot raw... .
DRabbit said:
Show will be a large school auditorium. Typical stage lighting. It's a musical. I'll be working with the K-x + 50-135mm f/2.8 DA*

In the past I've typically shot with an Olympus dSLR. I would shoot in shutter priority mode trying to keep it AT LEAST at 1/80, but always pushing for higher if possible. I figured I'd do the same thing with the K-x setup.

Just a few questions...

I like to shoot JPG for these shows so I can turn the photos around to the director and other parents quickly. How should I set WB? Will auto WB in this tricky lighting situation function okay? Should I expect worse performance than the Oly e620? If it's about the same, I'm okay with that.

Highlight clipping can be a problem in a theater setting to begin with... is this a signicant concern with the K-x? Should I set exposure compensation or always shoot one-stop faster than the meter wants me to?

Shows are typically about 2 hours... and it isn't usual for me to shoot 300-500 photos per night. Will battery life be a concern? I'd figure the answer is no, but thought I'd ask...

Any other helpful tips for theater/stage lighting and performances would be helpful! I'm not a newbie to this, just a newbie with Pentax!

Thanks!

Amy
--



Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing which ones to keep.
Twitter: http://twitter.com/DangRabbit
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/DangRabbitPhotography
PAD Project: http://www.DangRabbit.com/photography/pad
Gallery: http://www.DangRabbit.com/photography
Click to expand...
--
A.
 
Auto white balance on the Kx should be much better than on the e-620 as I believe that it uses the same white balance sensor as the K-7.

If you're worried about highlight clipping, e.g. your subject could be in the spotlight while the surrounding is dark, you could enable the "Link AE to AF point" option. This is option 6 in the custom function menu. This ensures that the subject that's under the selected AF point will always be correctly exposed, and I've found it useful for correctly exposing your subject under tricky lighting.
 
I don't know about the white balance question. I would definitely carry a spare set of batteries. You may want to shoot pictures of the cast before or after the performance using the flash. Batteries could then become an issue.
 
my colleague's daugther bought a kx and first thing i advised her is to upgrade the firmware. this fixes the kx's battery meter issue and adds a few features, although i don't think this should be a problem with lithium batteries.

if you want to upgrade, USE NEW LITHIUM batteries. you don't want the kx to run out of juice in the middle of the fw upgrade as it will be bricked.

not sure of how many shots you'll be taking per minute, but Raw + jpeg might be a better combo.

jpegs to show quickly, raw to fix WB issues (kx has pretty decent AWB IMHO) and use a big SD card :)

--
'when 900 years you reach, look as good you will not'
-- master yoda

http://jordanpaw.zenfolio.com
 
I don't think there's really such a thing as "correct" white balance for a typical theatrical production--at least, there's certainly no single white point setting that will make white appear white under both the warm and the cool gels. (Typically, or at least traditionally, lights angled from one side are gelled to be warm and those from the other side to be cool, so as to give better definition to the actors. This kind of mimics the effects of having one side of a face lit by the sun and the other side by ambient and reflected light.) Likewise, if the lights are strongly colored for special effects, you probably don't want to correct the balance to the point that white things look white, as that's undoing the effect.

If the lighting effects are comparatively subtle, I'd probably try to take a custom white balance reading of the "average" lighting beforehand and use that. If it's more aggressive and outlandish, with large variations in light color, that's maybe overkill.

The suggestion of shooting RAW + JPEG is a very good one if you want quick availability of JPEGs. This is the sort of demanding situation where RAW is quite helpful for getting the best results, in terms of readjusting exposure and white balance and noise reduction.

Spot metering on the actors isn't a bad idea, either, although it does tend to limit one's options compositionally.
--
--DrewE
 
DRabbit said:
Show will be a large school auditorium. Typical stage lighting. It's a musical. I'll be working with the K-x + 50-135mm f/2.8 DA*
Click to expand...
Get close to the stage unless you are going for several dancers together.
DRabbit said:
In the past I've typically shot with an Olympus dSLR. I would shoot in shutter priority mode trying to keep it AT LEAST at 1/80, but always pushing for higher if possible. I figured I'd do the same thing with the K-x setup.

Just a few questions...

I like to shoot JPG for these shows so I can turn the photos around to the director and other parents quickly. How should I set WB? Will auto WB in this tricky lighting situation function okay? Should I expect worse performance than the Oly e620? If it's about the same, I'm okay with that.
Click to expand...
Can't comment on that K200d shooter.
DRabbit said:
Highlight clipping can be a problem in a theater setting to begin with... is this a signicant concern with the K-x? Should I set exposure compensation or always shoot one-stop faster than the meter wants me to?
Click to expand...
I would shoot with the meter set for "Spot" and meter for the brightest part of the scene. With stage stuff anything that meters for the whole scene often misses and exposes for the background.
DRabbit said:
Shows are typically about 2 hours... and it isn't usual for me to shoot 300-500 photos per night. Will battery life be a concern? I'd figure the answer is no, but thought I'd ask...
Click to expand...
With new Lithiums or a spare set of low self discharge AA's (Eneloop type) in your pocket you should be fine. Depends on how much you chimp the LCD...
DRabbit said:
Any other helpful tips for theater/stage lighting and performances would be helpful! I'm not a newbie to this, just a newbie with Pentax!
Click to expand...
Typically (in my two paid gigs) I set up in Av mode with the aperture set wide open or maybe one half stop in depending on the lens. And pre set my ISO at 800 (K-x could do probably 1600 and be as good as my K200d) and usually I am fine as long as I have a decent spotlight on my guy. When I put on the longer lenses I use a Monopod it helps at anything above 80-90mm even if SR will give you a decent result SR and a Monopod will do better. I also shoot RAW+JPEG, that solves your WB issues but takes more space.

Other things to consider, color gelled spots and fills can over saturate very easily, check your histogram once the light changes with RGB all showing, not just the luminance. I learned that the hard way and ended up doing some B&W conversions to get sorta decent results. Also get to the venue early (or even for a rehearsal!) to check for sightlines and lighting. It just may save your behind. I would also talk to the stage manager ahead of time, they may be willing to let you go backstage for some interesting angles from the sides. My artist asked for me/allowed me to be onstage which was really REALLY fun!

Here is the gallery for both shows if you are bored: http://LloydShell.zenfolio.com/jasonhewlett

Shot with a K200d, and a combination of Sigma 17-70 f2.8-4.5, Sigma 70-200 f2.8 HSM (Rented from cameralensrentals.com), Pentax FA 35 f2.0, Pentax DA 40 f2.8, Pentax DA 70 f2.4, and I think one or two from my K 135mm f2.5, and Cosmicar 70-200 f4.

Good Luck!

Lloyd

--

“For every problem there is a solution which is simple, clean and wrong.” Henry Louis Mencken

http://lloydshell.blogspot.com/
http://lloydshell.zenfolio.com/
WSSA #354

 
I had a similar situation using K7 and DA70. White balance was set to auto. After I examined it in Pentax DCU, it showed setting to Tungsten, which looked fine. Stage shots EV was set between -0.5 and -1.0, the photos were a little darker but appear to show less grain.
 
Another vote here for using raw+jpg considering the lighting situation.

If the lighting is fixed then you could make a manual-WB setting and use something like a grey-card.

Here you can benefit greatly from the high-ISO performance of the K-x, but beware that the DR gets a little less at high ISO.

I think focusing will be the biggest challenge especially if it's real dark and the shooting-distances vary a lot.

You could test the combination to see how it performs at 1/80 seconds, some K-x's seem to have trouble around that speed, higher and even lower speeds would be better then.
Happy shooting!
--
Menno
 
DRabbit said:
......

Highlight clipping can be a problem in a theater setting to begin with... is this a signicant concern with the K-x? Should I set exposure compensation or always shoot one-stop faster than the meter wants me to?
......
Click to expand...
Would nobody recommend setting highlight correction on to try and preserve them? A quote from the dpreview review "In the dynamic range section of this review we demonstrate that enabling the highlight correction function adds about a stop of dynamic range to the highlight end. In the real world example below you can see that there is only marginally more information in the brightest part of the picture, the fur of the soft toy."

--
Walt

http://picasaweb.google.com/waltdall
 
Hi Amy,

I have a musical dance concert to shoot in a couple of weeks and was working on the settings for my KX last night.

I first studied the scene mode settings the cam uses for spotlight and then did a bit of google research.

I decided in the end to shoot with WB set to Tungsten.

TV mode so I can adjust shutter quickly - most of the time I will be around 200mm with my 55-300mm lens and wanting dance shots so will set for around 1/300.
(A rule seems to be not to go below 1/your focal length so 1/100 for 100mm)

If I can pan a dancer in full Grand Jete I will try to knock the shutter back a bit to blur bg a little to show movement (in my dreams!).

ISO will be limited to 3200 (thats the only prob with spotlight scene mode where it goes (often) to 6400).

I never use the D-range setting but will for this (to control highlights as per scene mode) and shadow on to low level.

Regarding metering (light) I have had my KX for a couple of months now and have had a real problem with spot metering - it doesn't behave at all like my panny and if anything darkens my subject when it is already in poor light as opposed to lighting it. Either my cam is faulty, I am faulty or multi metering just works better every situation for me whether it is sunsets, people or birding. Would be happy for any advice on this.

--
Cheers Brett
http://www.flickr.com/photos/zigsta/
 
I've done several school plays. AWB always seems to work fine for me. Setting the WB to Tungsten won't work because the light is not always yellow tungsten lighting.

I use as wide-open an aperture as possible with the lens I'm using since I'm far enough away from the stage that I'm focused at infinity or close to it anyway so shallow depth of field isn't a real issue.

I don't use any flash. It totally destroys any intended special lighting effects.

I try to keep shutter speed at 1/80 or faster and use ISO 1600. However sometimes you're forced to shoot as slow as 1/30 sec because of dim light. definitely use a tripod. It doesn't help any with regards to subject movement but at least you'll have camera shake under control.

If you want to take photos without disturbing a live audience and you want complete freedom to position your camera where ever you want, then do it during one of their dress rehearsals. I like to position myself horizontally in the middle of the auditorium at about 1/3 of the way back from the stage.

Here's a link to one of the plays I've shot. There is a combination of canon 40D and Pentax K-7 or K20D photos but the camera brand is not really the issue here.

http://sevenarrowphotos.zenfolio.com/p238987309

--
Allan in Colorado, USA
 
Hi Aplucini,

It is not correct to say Tungsten wb setting won't work. Many professional stage photographers shoot in tungsten - they prefer it to wb as it gives them a uniform setting across all photos ie any changes can be made globally. Sure, they are shooting in raw so the global wb changes can be made but chnages can also be made to jpeg temp if necessary (and most often not as tungsten gives good results).

In the menu setup on the KX there is also an option to increase the AWB adjustment the cam makes to Tungsten - might be of use if only wanting to shoot jpeg (and I can understand that if you want to shoot 300 images plus).

I haven't tried awb in stage situation with KX - I trust that it works well but suggest it is choosing Tungsten anyway.
--
Cheers Brett
http://www.flickr.com/photos/zigsta/
 
Walt_A said:
Would nobody recommend setting highlight correction on to try and preserve them? A quote from the dpreview review "In the dynamic range section of this review we demonstrate that enabling the highlight correction function adds about a stop of dynamic range to the highlight end. In the real world example below you can see that there is only marginally more information in the brightest part of the picture, the fur of the soft toy."
Click to expand...
I'd love to hear input on this!

I avoided those types of setting on the Oly 620 because it only introduced other problems... I'd be interested to know what the experience is of Pentax users!

Amy
--



Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing which ones to keep.
Twitter: http://twitter.com/DangRabbit
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/DangRabbitPhotography
PAD Project: http://www.DangRabbit.com/photography/pad
Gallery: http://www.DangRabbit.com/photography
 
Now that it's in my hands, there's about a zillion settings.

Is there a generally accepted "best" set of camera settings?

Bright, Natural, etc.?
Sharpening?
Noise Reduction?
Highlight Correction?

Thoughts on this?

Amy
--



Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing which ones to keep.
Twitter: http://twitter.com/DangRabbit
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/DangRabbitPhotography
PAD Project: http://www.DangRabbit.com/photography/pad
Gallery: http://www.DangRabbit.com/photography
 
Highlight correction actually works Ok for high contrast situations.

Shadow correction too, but shadow corr can introduce noise... (the noise in the shadows becomes more visible)

Note, those funcitons limits the lowest ISO to 400. But I believe you will be using higher ISO anyway in a situation like this. :)

--
Take care
Raphael
http://www.flickr.com/photos/raphaelmabo/
 
ive shot some dance concerts. if the kx is the same as k7 performance.

iso 2000-2500 f5.6 for good dof ,natural colour. some sharpening, some satuation,

AWB is a must.center weighted exp. jpeg. you should get some good A4 prints straight from camera.

cheers don
 
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